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Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
(07-24-2013 12:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 11:11 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 10:42 AM)Saint Bulldog Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 10:08 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I won't flame you, but I will wholeheartedly disagree that Southern Miss brings any value to the Big 12. If the Big 12 all came to play in Hattiesburg, of course they would sell tickets! That would be the case in any town south of the Mason/Dixon or on the Plains. You know what would make sense? Ole Miss or Miss. St. moving to the Big 12 so that they have a national brand in a new market, and the SEC gets out of doubling up in the same market (setting historical ties aside for the moment). In terms of conference realignment for financial purposes, that is plausible. Any AAC or C-USA school outside of UConn, Cincinnati, and maybe USF or UCF if somebody becomes desperate does not make financial sense for any P5 conference.

My point was that if Southern Miss had good home games then M. M. Roberts Stadium wouldn't be big enough to hold everyone. This year they play, at home, Texas State, FIU, North Texas, Florida Atlantic & Middle Tennessee. I can't think of one of those that I would like to see. Do I think that the Big XII would invite USM? No. But I believe that a lot of people are selling the Eagles a little short and if given a chance they would surprise people.

105K fans paid $50+ per seat to watch their team host an Eastern Michigan team on a 19 game losing streak. Last year NMSU(1-11) was the visiting team for a game that broke the host school's attendance record. It wasn't homecoming and they aren't rivals. Stop blaming attendance on the other team.

Nearly all of those ticket holders are season ticket buyers. They didn't buy the season tickets to see Eastern Michigan. If the opponent didn't matter then conferences would look a lot different.

ECU has been in the same conference as So Miss for 15 years but draws consistently higher attendance playing the same teams.
07-24-2013 02:42 PM
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3d2bcards Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
(07-22-2013 10:09 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  USM does more with less than anyone around

Agree
07-24-2013 06:50 PM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
I like USM's new coach.

Southern Miss Coach Speaks Out Against Talked About Big School Split

Southern Miss coach Todd Monken has some thoughts about an NCAA split

Quote:First-year Southern Miss coach Todd Monken isn't a fan of the speculated NCAA split by the power conferences, and he held little back in voicing that displeasure Wednesday at Conference USA media day.

Monken said he understands where the concept stems from, but he had a suggestion for the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC if they do follow through on the threats of Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby that those leagues will split from the rest of the Football Bowl Subdivision.

"I would propose to [the power conferences] this: If you want to split off, let's just do it that way, but you play each other, and you don't get to play us then," Monken said.

"Go ahead. See how you like that. See how you like the NFL rule and play each other every week. Coaches will be like 'Whoa, hold on, wait a second now.'"

"Go ahead and do your deal — you guys split all the pie — but don't go playing anyone else. You just play each other every week. Just have a nice NFL crossover where you play each other. Then when you fire up a nice 7-5, and you're at a pretty good place and they fire you, they won't be real excited about it, because you won't have those games that they've been able to win. Plain and simple."

"Some of those teams that get bowl eligible when they go 2-6 in their league and they go 6-6. Well, you'll be 2-10, or 3-9, and it won't feel so damn salty."

Monken said the he also understands that the smaller schools offer themselves in a gambit.

"Schools at our level, until we get done prostituting ourselves are never going to really see those teams to come play you [at their home field]," he said.

I'd love to play Auburn [at home] — they're not coming. They pay you enough to where you won't come. They'll find enough people so that you'll come."

I bet you'll find the records of schools in our league are pretty good when they get to play teams at home. They just don't get to play them at home, but 'cause they need the money or someone else will do it. That's the biggest thing — how do you get to where you give yourself a shot, and make them travel?"
07-25-2013 08:24 AM
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TTT Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
(07-24-2013 02:42 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 12:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 11:11 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 10:42 AM)Saint Bulldog Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 10:08 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I won't flame you, but I will wholeheartedly disagree that Southern Miss brings any value to the Big 12. If the Big 12 all came to play in Hattiesburg, of course they would sell tickets! That would be the case in any town south of the Mason/Dixon or on the Plains. You know what would make sense? Ole Miss or Miss. St. moving to the Big 12 so that they have a national brand in a new market, and the SEC gets out of doubling up in the same market (setting historical ties aside for the moment). In terms of conference realignment for financial purposes, that is plausible. Any AAC or C-USA school outside of UConn, Cincinnati, and maybe USF or UCF if somebody becomes desperate does not make financial sense for any P5 conference.

My point was that if Southern Miss had good home games then M. M. Roberts Stadium wouldn't be big enough to hold everyone. This year they play, at home, Texas State, FIU, North Texas, Florida Atlantic & Middle Tennessee. I can't think of one of those that I would like to see. Do I think that the Big XII would invite USM? No. But I believe that a lot of people are selling the Eagles a little short and if given a chance they would surprise people.

105K fans paid $50+ per seat to watch their team host an Eastern Michigan team on a 19 game losing streak. Last year NMSU(1-11) was the visiting team for a game that broke the host school's attendance record. It wasn't homecoming and they aren't rivals. Stop blaming attendance on the other team.

Nearly all of those ticket holders are season ticket buyers. They didn't buy the season tickets to see Eastern Michigan. If the opponent didn't matter then conferences would look a lot different.

ECU has been in the same conference as So Miss for 15 years but draws consistently higher attendance playing the same teams.

Duh.

ECU:
Nearly 30k students in a state with a population of nearly 10 million people.

USM:
Nearly 20k students in a state with a population of only 3 million people.

No wonder ECU draws more people to games playing the same opponents. Not to mention ECU's in-state rivals (UNC/Nc-State) actually PLAY them on a pretty consistent basis both in Greenville and Raleigh/Chapel Hill. That has a LOT to do w/ growing a fanbase like ECU has done. Ole Miss and Mississippi State haven't played in Hattiesburg (or USM period) in over 20 years. When ECU draws their best games they are damn near at 50k....when we draw our best games we're at 36k.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2013 10:36 AM by TTT.)
07-25-2013 10:31 AM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
(07-25-2013 10:31 AM)TTT Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 02:42 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 12:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 11:11 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 10:42 AM)Saint Bulldog Wrote:  My point was that if Southern Miss had good home games then M. M. Roberts Stadium wouldn't be big enough to hold everyone. This year they play, at home, Texas State, FIU, North Texas, Florida Atlantic & Middle Tennessee. I can't think of one of those that I would like to see. Do I think that the Big XII would invite USM? No. But I believe that a lot of people are selling the Eagles a little short and if given a chance they would surprise people.

105K fans paid $50+ per seat to watch their team host an Eastern Michigan team on a 19 game losing streak. Last year NMSU(1-11) was the visiting team for a game that broke the host school's attendance record. It wasn't homecoming and they aren't rivals. Stop blaming attendance on the other team.

Nearly all of those ticket holders are season ticket buyers. They didn't buy the season tickets to see Eastern Michigan. If the opponent didn't matter then conferences would look a lot different.

ECU has been in the same conference as So Miss for 15 years but draws consistently higher attendance playing the same teams.

Duh.

ECU:
Nearly 30k students in a state with a population of nearly 10 million people.

USM:
Nearly 20k students in a state with a population of only 3 million people.

No wonder ECU draws more people to games playing the same opponents. Not to mention ECU's in-state rivals (UNC/Nc-State) actually PLAY them on a pretty consistent basis both in Greenville and Raleigh/Chapel Hill. That has a LOT to do w/ growing a fanbase like ECU has done. Ole Miss and Mississippi State haven't played in Hattiesburg (or USM period) in over 20 years. When ECU draws their best games they are damn near at 50k....when we draw our best games we're at 36k.
They quit playing Southern Miss after Ole Miss dropped their last six straight games with them. And how about why MS State stopped? They lost ten of their last 14 with USM. "Anyone, anywhere, and time"...
07-25-2013 12:54 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
(07-25-2013 10:31 AM)TTT Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 02:42 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 12:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 11:11 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 10:42 AM)Saint Bulldog Wrote:  My point was that if Southern Miss had good home games then M. M. Roberts Stadium wouldn't be big enough to hold everyone. This year they play, at home, Texas State, FIU, North Texas, Florida Atlantic & Middle Tennessee. I can't think of one of those that I would like to see. Do I think that the Big XII would invite USM? No. But I believe that a lot of people are selling the Eagles a little short and if given a chance they would surprise people.

105K fans paid $50+ per seat to watch their team host an Eastern Michigan team on a 19 game losing streak. Last year NMSU(1-11) was the visiting team for a game that broke the host school's attendance record. It wasn't homecoming and they aren't rivals. Stop blaming attendance on the other team.

Nearly all of those ticket holders are season ticket buyers. They didn't buy the season tickets to see Eastern Michigan. If the opponent didn't matter then conferences would look a lot different.

ECU has been in the same conference as So Miss for 15 years but draws consistently higher attendance playing the same teams.

Duh.

ECU:
Nearly 30k students in a state with a population of nearly 10 million people.

USM:
Nearly 20k students in a state with a population of only 3 million people.

No wonder ECU draws more people to games playing the same opponents. Not to mention ECU's in-state rivals (UNC/Nc-State) actually PLAY them on a pretty consistent basis both in Greenville and Raleigh/Chapel Hill. That has a LOT to do w/ growing a fanbase like ECU has done. Ole Miss and Mississippi State haven't played in Hattiesburg (or USM period) in over 20 years. When ECU draws their best games they are damn near at 50k....when we draw our best games we're at 36k.

North Texas:
Nearly 36K students in a state with a population of nearly 26 million people.

Marshall:
Nearly 14K students in a state with a population of nearly 1.8 million people.

your argument is invalid.
07-25-2013 01:56 PM
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MasMack Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
All I know is that Southern Miss has and will continue to be able to compete with just about any school in the nation. And I know for damn sure we would more then hold our own in the CUSA and the AAC.

And nothing makes me prouder then knowing and proving that.
07-25-2013 02:11 PM
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AndreWhere Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
(07-22-2013 03:59 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  My concern is that the Southern Miss Athletic Department appears to be broke based on statements made by the last AD, Jeff Hammond. He was scheduling payday games and selling USM home games to balance the budget according to published reports. It was further indicated that booster memberships and donations were down and major donors were dwindling. Although the AAC TV contract is better than CUSA's, it is not a large enough increase to float USM and stop the need to schedule payday games. Until such time as USM is on good financial footing and not scheduling payday games, I don't think the American should consider them. No American team should be scheduling one-and-done games or selling home games. If you had moved the Nebraska game to New Orleans so you could sell more tickets, that would have been understood, but to sell it back to Nebraska and hold it in Lincoln is quite indicative of a major problem.

Jeff had his strengths, and I appreciate his hard work, but I wouldn't trust anything he said about our finances. He's just not a finance guy.

This shouldn't surprise any one. The world Jeff lived in before he became AD operates in a completely different manner from an athletic department. It was a mistake for him to open that can of worms. Almost immediately after he did, the state sent in a bunch of real CPAs, and their opinions were dramatically different from Jeff's.

Operating budget is just one part of the picture. Assets are important, too. Having a stadium like ours right in the middle of campus is worth something. Our history is worth something. Our access to local and regional talent is worth something. People still like a good game day environment and they still like talented players. They like marching bands and pretty little towns and pretty cheerleaders. All of those things are what made football big at places like Virginia Tech, Michigan, Florida State, etc. and we've got at least a little bit of it, too.

It's amazing that we even have to talk about these things. But when you read these boards, all you see is a bunch of esoteric crap about TV markets and Carnegie subclassifications.

A lot of that is a fad that will go the way of platform shoes, $80-per-share Enron stock, and the "pet rock." The gold plating is already starting to wear off at ESPN, for example, and they drove a lot of the trends that have us in rubbing elbows with FIU instead of Louisville.

The challenge is to survive the last few years of the TV sports bubble without being relegated to some sort of irrelevant quasi-FCS classification (and, relatedly, without losing fans). People are understandably bummed out right now. I just hold on to the memory of last year's ECU game. It was a beautiful day, we we're just 0-1, and 34,140 people filled our stadium to watch a conference opponent. MM Roberts is a great place to watch a game.

We've just got to get back to that place. I know we can. I also know we have every opportunity to blow it. Attitude counts for a lot. We need our leaders to say the right things. Jeff Hammond did not. Ellis Johnson most definitely did not. Whether our new President and our new AD will is an open question.

We've had Nebraska at MM Roberts before and we very well may host them again. We've beaten them at their place, too... that's something for the AAC to consider. The circumstances that made us sell that game were unprecedented. I don't think they say as much about USM as they say about Ellis Johnson and his cronies.

I miss being in a conference with your school. I hope the feeling is mutual for at least some of your fans.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2013 09:33 PM by AndreWhere.)
07-27-2013 09:09 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
(07-22-2013 02:07 PM)Mr. Ed Wrote:  I certainly hope that Southern Miss will be scooped up ASAP in Conference realignment. Not including the epic failure known as the Ellis Johnson experiment in 2012, USM had earned an estimated 15 winning seasons in a row.

The Golden Eagles were a top 20 team in 2011 and in the past have beaten Louisville, Cincinnati, ECU, Alabama, FSU, Virginia Tech, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Auburn, Illinois, Oklahoma State, USF, UCF on multiple occassions.

Previous conference expansion based on TV households is comical. I've been to USM vs. Tulane game in the Super Dome. More Southern Miss black and gold than Tulane fans. Have been to other Tulane games with crowds around 10k.

Memphis has no football achievements and everytime they make a Final Four, the NCAA revokes their appearance.

As conferences battle for spots in a college football playoff, the leagues strength will be an important factor. Seems decades of winning football might be a feather that some conference just might want in their cap.

The college football of today doesn't care if you're good, that's a secondary or even tertiary factor. CFB has all the monetary aspects of the NFL but without the level playing field.
07-27-2013 09:38 PM
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AndreWhere Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
(07-27-2013 09:38 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(07-22-2013 02:07 PM)Mr. Ed Wrote:  I certainly hope that Southern Miss will be scooped up ASAP in Conference realignment. Not including the epic failure known as the Ellis Johnson experiment in 2012, USM had earned an estimated 15 winning seasons in a row.

The Golden Eagles were a top 20 team in 2011 and in the past have beaten Louisville, Cincinnati, ECU, Alabama, FSU, Virginia Tech, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Auburn, Illinois, Oklahoma State, USF, UCF on multiple occassions.

Previous conference expansion based on TV households is comical. I've been to USM vs. Tulane game in the Super Dome. More Southern Miss black and gold than Tulane fans. Have been to other Tulane games with crowds around 10k.

Memphis has no football achievements and everytime they make a Final Four, the NCAA revokes their appearance.

As conferences battle for spots in a college football playoff, the leagues strength will be an important factor. Seems decades of winning football might be a feather that some conference just might want in their cap.

The college football of today doesn't care if you're good, that's a secondary or even tertiary factor. CFB has all the monetary aspects of the NFL but without the level playing field.

That's the college football world of 2012. There's no guarantee it will last forever. And on-the-field performance will always matter to some extent..

If you've got a few minutes, please read what I posted right before your post. I don't know if it's right. I hope it is.
07-27-2013 09:46 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
(07-27-2013 09:46 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  
(07-27-2013 09:38 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(07-22-2013 02:07 PM)Mr. Ed Wrote:  I certainly hope that Southern Miss will be scooped up ASAP in Conference realignment. Not including the epic failure known as the Ellis Johnson experiment in 2012, USM had earned an estimated 15 winning seasons in a row.

The Golden Eagles were a top 20 team in 2011 and in the past have beaten Louisville, Cincinnati, ECU, Alabama, FSU, Virginia Tech, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Auburn, Illinois, Oklahoma State, USF, UCF on multiple occassions.

Previous conference expansion based on TV households is comical. I've been to USM vs. Tulane game in the Super Dome. More Southern Miss black and gold than Tulane fans. Have been to other Tulane games with crowds around 10k.

Memphis has no football achievements and everytime they make a Final Four, the NCAA revokes their appearance.

As conferences battle for spots in a college football playoff, the leagues strength will be an important factor. Seems decades of winning football might be a feather that some conference just might want in their cap.

The college football of today doesn't care if you're good, that's a secondary or even tertiary factor. CFB has all the monetary aspects of the NFL but without the level playing field.

That's the college football world of 2012. There's no guarantee it will last forever. And on-the-field performance will always matter to some extent..

If you've got a few minutes, please read what I posted right before your post. I don't know if it's right. I hope it is.

I don't know that much about USM except that if they were going by results, USM would have switched conferences already instead of some of the other schools. USM's scheduling sounds a little like NIU's (though not as bad). We have a couple payday games every year, but we still don't pay money to bring decent schools into DeKalb. Every other year our only OOC home game is an FCS school. Horrible. Little wonder our attendance has suffered. And recently we were going to play Nebraska at Soldier Field but they wanted to back out, so now we're playing in Lincoln 4 times in 8 years. 03-banghead Oh, and we're playing Presbyterian College next year. It just gets worse and worse.

I have to believe that at some point results do matter somewhat. At least I hope that. That belief is on very shaky ground at this point as the evidence points to the contrary.
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2013 10:01 PM by NIU007.)
07-27-2013 10:00 PM
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Journeyman22 Offline
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Post: #52
Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
(07-24-2013 11:26 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 11:00 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 10:08 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I won't flame you, but I will wholeheartedly disagree that Southern Miss brings any value to the Big 12.

We could make that claim about any school that's not a "Media darling", (and you could argue some of the "cupcakes" in the P5 would have the same problem) in fact, that's what the big powers LOVE to see happen. They see the Lower P5 teams and the non-AQ's fans just making these kind of comments at one another, while they can say they're "staying out of the fray".

Just to pick a team at random.. you really think Alabama fans would get excited over a football team like Duke coming to play at Legion Field?

If we were to actually have a "FULL" reshuffle, I'd wager a lot of schools that are in the P5 leagues would find themselves on the outside looking in.

Sure, a true reshuffling of conferences would be an interesting exercise considering market forces today. I doubt you would see doubled markets in a conference anywhere except possibly the L.A. and Bay areas for the PAC since they are massive, geography is limiting, and the public/private in each area make it more marketable (no big brother/little brother issue). We definitely do not have 4 ACC schools in NC, for example. In any case, the state of Mississippi has two schools that would qualify as P5 level, and both are in the bottom half of that list based on objective factors (population, academics, revenue). As you said, there would likely be some attrition (Wake Forest, Washington State, and Oregon State would probably be on that list.)

There's no scenario where Washington State and Oregon State would be booted from the Pac-12. even if there were a true reshuffling. They both have big followings in the Pacific NW, and both have a stronger presence in major cities -- Seattle and Portland, respectively -- than most people realize. You noted the league's geography, which is massive and an important reason it wouldn't happen. Even if you think those two schools aren't significant (and you'd be wrong), there are no schools in a reasonable footprint of the league that could replace them. Texas? Sure, but they'd ADD Texas before replacing Oregon State with a school 3+ hours by plane from West Coast markets. Remember, the league was looking at 16 just a year ago.
07-30-2013 06:16 PM
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Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
The PAC won't dump anybody heck they already have trouble finding schools that even remotely fit their criteria due to geography so booting schools would be a bad idea.
07-30-2013 08:28 PM
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GO Coogs GO!!! Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Tired of Southern Miss Being Grounded
(07-30-2013 08:28 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  The PAC won't dump anybody heck they already have trouble finding schools that even remotely fit their criteria due to geography so booting schools would be a bad idea.

This.

Not a lot of options in the PST, MST, and CST that they would accept and be available.

Just don't see them expanding past the Texas Louisiana border. If the they expand for whatever reason it will be in those 2 times zones and the western to mid range of the CST zone.
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2013 08:48 PM by GO Coogs GO!!!.)
07-30-2013 08:46 PM
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