Did anyone ever figure out what the folks at UMKC were smoking on this move? I did some googling, but never found any real explanation from them. I can't determine a single good reason that they would have left the Summit, which is quite favorable geographically, for what is now called the WAC.

Well I know for sure that played a role is hosting the WAC tournament in the future. Something they don't get to do being in the Summit.
Other guesses: Playing in bigger metro areas and future defections from the Summit.

I read a rumor in the spring about UMKC throwing its hat in for MVC membership. The MVC is as close to ideal as UMKC will get. Here is what I read:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...uri-valley

I'm trying to find logic in the decision made by UMKC brass, but it is difficult. Getting to the MVC from the Summit would have been a long jump as it was for UMKC. Maybe they want to build up some wins for their new coach and use those successes to leverage themselves into the MVC.

That scenario makes the most sense for me. The in-conference portion of UMKC's WAC basketball schedule will be chock-full of potential wins with the exception of NMSU. Maybe after a few 15+ win seasons the MVC will let them in to replace Creighton.

(07-22-2013 11:45 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Well I know for sure that played a role is hosing the WAC tournament in the future. Something they don't get to do being in the Summit.
Other guesses: Playing ii bigger metro areas and future defections from the Summit.

That would be questionable if that were a reason. Zombie WAC does have teams in Seattle, Phoenix, and Chicago (though all of those are way, way down the local totem pole of fan interest), but it also has teams in very remote locations in Bakersfield, Edinburg, Las Cruces.

(07-22-2013 12:19 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-22-2013 11:45 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Well I know for sure that played a role is hosing the WAC tournament in the future. Something they don't get to do being in the Summit.
Other guesses: Playing ii bigger metro areas and future defections from the Summit.

That would be questionable if that were a reason. Zombie WAC does have teams in Seattle, Phoenix, and Chicago (though all of those are way, way down the local totem pole of fan interest), but it also has teams in very remote locations in Bakersfield, Edinburg, Las Cruces.

Also Salt Lake City. However, if you want to move out of a really regional conference that is the Dakotas and want to expose your school to a wider area, then the WAC is a good choice to bring name to the Western US.

The reason was that the WAC was a name brand similar to the Valley instead of the Summit League. UMKC is a long ways from being a Valley school, wish the best to them though. Would be a nice replacement for us if we get the urge to move up to FBS football.

The WAC is a funky league but it has SOME reputation in men's basketball.

The NCAA tournament credits in the WAC are also larger than the Summit League, historically a 1 and done conference. I would not be surprised if there is a slight revenue boost with the WAC for UMKC.

(07-22-2013 12:46 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Also Salt Lake City. However, if you want to move out of a really regional conference that is the Dakotas and want to expose your school to a wider area, then the WAC is a good choice to bring name to the Western US.

UVU isn't in SLC, it's on the outskirts of Provostan.

Honestly I think UMKC panicked and thought the Summit was going to implode.

The WAC has some name brand and UMKC is located in a city that is half crazy for Mizzou basketball and half crazy for Kansas basketball. Any change in perception can't hurt.

I still think the MVC will pick up UMKC eventually. I see Missouri State eventually going to FBS, (probably Sun Belt) and leaving a spot in that state for UMKC to fill.

I mean it would be kind of weird for the Missouri Valley Conference to not have any schools from Missouri in my opinion.

The OVC doesn't have any teams from Ohio (I think the OVC and MVC both refer to their respective river valleys), but I get your point that it is kinda funny. UMKC might be an add down the line just because it's a big public school and a good geographic fit for the MVC, but it's athletic program has done nothing that I know of since joining DI. I know people who are Kangaroos and they even admit it's not too much, just a commuter school with a great 6-year med program.

In Kansas City, the Summit League is viewed as a rural dominated Dakota DII league (most of its members were DII in the past 15 years): could just as well be in the Mo-Ks based MIAA DII league as far as KC media is concerned. The WAC still has a DI reputation, although increasingly undeserved. Losing Oral Roberts last year to the Southland was a big issue to the Summit's perception. (The earlier loss of Valpo plus the recent loss of Oakland haven't helped a bit.)

UMKC has wanted to upgrade its basketball program (hiring Kareem Richardson from Louisville), and thought a league change would also help in terms of perception. Arguably, the new WAC presents an easier path to the NCAA dance (beating NMSU in the tournament should do it), which is what UMKC badly needs (having never been there). There had been talk of UMKC dropping back to DII or athletics altogether if it didn't start making an impact. Winning and media attention is what is seen as opening a real shot to MVC membership, which is their real goal.

The WAC has a lot of money from exit fees and paid for UMKC's exit fees from the Summit and waived UMKC's entrance fees. UMKC was also promised a league tournament.

The WAC and the Summit are essentially in a war for members: one more loss by either league could kill the loser, and the winning league would be in a position to pick up many of the other league's members. Denver left the WAC for the Summit (DU hates the idea of being in a league with GCU, as well as former JC's like UVU, poor academic performers like Chicago St and UTPA). Also think the WAC has been talking to DII Metro State of Denver - which Denver won't tolerate being in a league with. Summit League is currently in second year (and possibly final year) of grace period as a recognized conference for not having six baseball members (now only has four baseball teams: NDSU, SDSU, WIll, IPFW, although Omaha will count in two years, ORU and Oakland both had baseball but departed, no obvious replacements for baseball).

(07-22-2013 09:44 PM)Tiger Rag Wrote:  I still think the MVC will pick up UMKC eventually. I see Missouri State eventually going to FBS, (probably Sun Belt) and leaving a spot in that state for UMKC to fill.

I mean it would be kind of weird for the Missouri Valley Conference to not have any schools from Missouri in my opinion.

Actually the MVC went from 1974 to 1990 without a team from Missouri in the conference. The rest of the history they have had a Missouri team in the lineup.

1907 to 1928 Missouri
1907 to 1947 Washington University
1937 to 1974 Saint Louis
1990 to present Missouri State

(07-22-2013 09:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The WAC has some name brand and UMKC is located in a city that is half crazy for Mizzou basketball and half crazy for Kansas basketball. Any change in perception can't hurt.

Who amongst the WAC members not named NMSU has any sort of recent basketball tradition? Bakersfield, Idaho?? Seattle has Elgin Baylor but the 60s were a long time ago.

That name brand went out the window when Utah State, Nevada and Louisiana Tech moved on. Denver's departure after one year did not help either. Without football now the WAC and Summit are essentially in the same boat.

(07-22-2013 10:39 PM)NoDak Wrote:  In Kansas City, the Summit League is viewed as a rural dominated Dakota DII league (most of its members were DII in the past 15 years): could just as well be in the Mo-Ks based MIAA DII league as far as KC media is concerned. The WAC still has a DI reputation, although increasingly undeserved. Losing Oral Roberts last year to the Southland was a big issue to the Summit's perception. (The earlier loss of Valpo plus the recent loss of Oakland haven't helped a bit.)

UMKC has wanted to upgrade its basketball program (hiring Kareem Richardson from Louisville), and thought a league change would also help in terms of perception. Arguably, the new WAC presents an easier path to the NCAA dance (beating NMSU in the tournament should do it), which is what UMKC badly needs (having never been there). There had been talk of UMKC dropping back to DII or athletics altogether if it didn't start making an impact. Winning and media attention is what is seen as opening a real shot to MVC membership, which is their real goal.

The WAC has a lot of money from exit fees and paid for UMKC's exit fees from the Summit and waived UMKC's entrance fees. UMKC was also promised a league tournament.

The WAC and the Summit are essentially in a war for members: one more loss by either league could kill the loser, and the winning league would be in a position to pick up many of the other league's members. Denver left the WAC for the Summit (DU hates the idea of being in a league with GCU, as well as former JC's like UVU, poor academic performers like Chicago St and UTPA). Also think the WAC has been talking to DII Metro State of Denver - which Denver won't tolerate being in a league with. Summit League is currently in second year (and possibly final year) of grace period as a recognized conference for not having six baseball members (now only has four baseball teams: NDSU, SDSU, WIll, IPFW, although Omaha will count in two years, ORU and Oakland both had baseball but departed, no obvious replacements for baseball).

The WAC's reputation is all but gone now that Nevada, Utah State and Louisiana Tech have left. Idaho's next after this upcoming year and NMSU has a foot out the door with football in the Sun Belt. I don't doubt that the WAC has been talking to Metro State or Western Washington about moving up from DII. UC San Diego has been lightly mentioned here and there as well but if they were to move up it would be for the Big West.

As to the tussle between the Summit and WAC, it's simply a matter of where else can these schools go. From the Summit's side:

- where would Denver leave for?? Their AD has not exactly been making friends lately.
- who would want IPFW or IUPUI? Missouri Valley or Horizon, maybe??
- does the Big Sky have room for the three Dakotas?
- is the WAC willing to take Western Illinois or Omaha? I think it's a yes for Omaha, not sure about WIU.


From the WAC's side as to other possible destinations being available for its members:

- is NMSU bound for the Sun Belt as a full member?
- does Utah Valley have any shot at the Big Sky?
- will Chicago State be desirable for anyone?
- UTPA to the Southland?? Without football, I can't see it.
- UM Kansas City can maybe get a look from the MVC?
- would the WCC want Seattle? Does the Big West go for Seattle and/or Bakersfield?
- can Grand Canyon sneak into the Big Sky or Big West? WCC not likely to go near the Lopes with a 10 foot pole.

Both the Summit and WAC could just as easily get poached simultaneously as they attempt to pick off each other. Lots of variables at play here.

I believe WAC told UMKC that they would be able to host at least 3 basketball conference tournaments, along w/ all the bigger markets to play in stuff.

If the Summit dies:
IPFW to Horizon (they need a baseball school)
Omaha, NDSU, SDSU, USD to WAC
IUPUI and WIU to the Atlantic Sun or Horizon

Denver is left holding the bag unless if the WAC or Big Sky goes to 14, or if the Big East or Missouri Valley expands and creates other openings. If Denver is WAC #13, WIU is WAC #14.

The WAC may get Great West-ified, but it will probably never die without serious expansion from the WCC, Big Sky, and Big West.

Terrible.

(07-23-2013 07:12 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  The WAC may get already is Great West-ified

FIFY