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Owl band must go to College Station
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
(07-22-2013 02:46 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  I'm sorry, but this is just pitiful.

Without question, the game against Texas A&M will be the biggest television audience for Rice in at least a decade (maybe longer). And, what will be the perception that we'll present? That we are no better than a Division III team that cannot even bring its band to the game.

I think the perception that we present will depend a lot more on the football team than the band. The halftime show will not dispel any negative images if the halftime score creates them.

I remember a HS game in which our team was slaughtered, something like 42-0. My friend in the band was euphoric, saying that our band had clearly won the halftime.

I just hope the stands are full of worried Aggies at the half. I don't care if they are entertained or not.
07-22-2013 03:27 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
(07-22-2013 03:27 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-22-2013 02:46 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  I'm sorry, but this is just pitiful.

Without question, the game against Texas A&M will be the biggest television audience for Rice in at least a decade (maybe longer). And, what will be the perception that we'll present? That we are no better than a Division III team that cannot even bring its band to the game.

I think the perception that we present will depend a lot more on the football team than the band. The halftime show will not dispel any negative images if the halftime score creates them.

I remember a HS game in which our team was slaughtered, something like 42-0. My friend in the band was euphoric, saying that our band had clearly won the halftime.

I just hope the stands are full of worried Aggies at the half. I don't care if they are entertained or not.

It's less about a halftime show, and more about its presence in the stadium with the fight song, etc.
07-22-2013 03:31 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
(07-22-2013 03:31 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(07-22-2013 03:27 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-22-2013 02:46 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  I'm sorry, but this is just pitiful.

Without question, the game against Texas A&M will be the biggest television audience for Rice in at least a decade (maybe longer). And, what will be the perception that we'll present? That we are no better than a Division III team that cannot even bring its band to the game.

I think the perception that we present will depend a lot more on the football team than the band. The halftime show will not dispel any negative images if the halftime score creates them.

I remember a HS game in which our team was slaughtered, something like 42-0. My friend in the band was euphoric, saying that our band had clearly won the halftime.

I just hope the stands are full of worried Aggies at the half. I don't care if they are entertained or not.

It's less about a halftime show, and more about its presence in the stadium with the fight song, etc.

I'm OK with the Memphis Owl solution, as long as Chuck is too.

But the lasing impression will be on the scoreboard.
07-22-2013 03:34 PM
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Post: #44
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
Quick show of the proverbial hands. How many of you were in the MOB? OK, how many of you know how to run a band program? OK. How many of you know what the current crop of MOBsters needs? Now I am personally of the opinion that it would be great for the MOB to show up in College Station. It would be on hell of an experience. But, having said that, I was in the MOB in the post SWC days. In talking to a great many old MOBsters they all agreed that not going to ATM was a good thing. That it was not like UT where the MOB was appreciated and laughed at/with. So yeah, maybe exposing brand new band members to this kind of thing is not the best idea right off the bat.

I also think you guys have no idea what the MOB is or how it is run. At other academic institutions the band is, for some, not optional and taken much more seriously than at Rice. At Rice the MOB is purely voluntary and optional. It requires no more commitment than one is willing and able to put into it. You can only make it to one game? Great, we will be glad to have you! Want to stick around for the entire season? Even better! While other schools start rehearsals well in advance of the beginning of school year, Chuck does not have that luxury. He does what he can with the time and resources he has. And he does a DAMN FINE JOB!!

I have nothing but respect for the man. He came in at a time when the MOB was in turmoil and provided vision, stability and guidance. He puts up with less than ideal support form the student body and sometime, it appears, from others. The MOB is the perfect band for a place like Rice. The band program is analogous to the football team. Yet some of you want Chuck to turn it into a program like one of the ESU's. Sorry. Not gonna happen.

And while I may not necessarily agree with him on this decision, I will support him and respect what he thinks is best. Some of you really need to lay off.
07-22-2013 03:52 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
I am quite shocked over the official reasoning behind the MOB's complete absence from this big game, far and away the biggest crowd of the season. Is a trip to Tulsa or Las Cruces more important?? The MOB once sought out big crowds, because the students wanted to perform in front of big audiences. It was a big attraction for being in the MOB.

A key reason the MOB once had a large membership was because it had a well-known reputation established through strong exposure at big games. The MOB was a popular attraction for opposing fans. I realize there's an old history between A&M and the MOB, but I suspect a few of the crusty old MOBalums are greatly exaggerating the 'threat' of performing in College Station. I would think performing in a big game at A&M before a nationally televised audience would be a boon for recruitment.

It's the official MOB attitude that disturbs me. I am typically in strong support of the MOB getting better resources and a new bandhall from the University, but if the MOB seeks to be irrelevant, irrelevance is what they will get. Don't expect a big surge in membership with this sort of stance towards big games either...
07-22-2013 04:08 PM
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Post: #46
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
(07-22-2013 03:52 PM)Chef Owl Wrote:  Quick show of the proverbial hands. How many of you were in the MOB? OK, how many of you know how to run a band program? OK. How many of you know what the current crop of MOBsters needs? Now I am personally of the opinion that it would be great for the MOB to show up in College Station. It would be on hell of an experience. But, having said that, I was in the MOB in the post SWC days. In talking to a great many old MOBsters they all agreed that not going to ATM was a good thing. That it was not like UT where the MOB was appreciated and laughed at/with. So yeah, maybe exposing brand new band members to this kind of thing is not the best idea right off the bat.

I also think you guys have no idea what the MOB is or how it is run. At other academic institutions the band is, for some, not optional and taken much more seriously than at Rice. At Rice the MOB is purely voluntary and optional. It requires no more commitment than one is willing and able to put into it. You can only make it to one game? Great, we will be glad to have you! Want to stick around for the entire season? Even better! While other schools start rehearsals well in advance of the beginning of school year, Chuck does not have that luxury. He does what he can with the time and resources he has. And he does a DAMN FINE JOB!!

I have nothing but respect for the man. He came in at a time when the MOB was in turmoil and provided vision, stability and guidance. He puts up with less than ideal support form the student body and sometime, it appears, from others. The MOB is the perfect band for a place like Rice. The band program is analogous to the football team. Yet some of you want Chuck to turn it into a program like one of the ESU's. Sorry. Not gonna happen.

And while I may not necessarily agree with him on this decision, I will support him and respect what he thinks is best. Some of you really need to lay off.

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07-22-2013 04:13 PM
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JSA Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
I applaud the efforts, too.
But it's sad that doing things the "Rice Way" means we're not in a position to send our band to our season opener.

As for fear of the reception the MOB would get, I'll defer to Chuck's judgment's.
But I recall seeing several Corps members coming to the rail to shake hands with the MOB the last time I saw A&M play at Rice.
(This post was last modified: 07-23-2013 08:22 AM by JSA.)
07-22-2013 04:19 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
(07-22-2013 03:52 PM)Chef Owl Wrote:  Yet some of you want Chuck to turn it into a program like one of the ESU's. Sorry. Not gonna happen.

(07-22-2013 03:52 PM)Chef Owl Wrote:  And while I may not necessarily agree with him on this decision, I will support him and respect what he thinks is best. Some of you really need to lay off.

I.. uh. huh?
07-22-2013 04:20 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
In my years with the MOB in the late 80s, you didn't fear going into College Station. I don't why anyone should fear going in. While the MOB had a reputation in the 80s, the Aggies knew what to expect. This wasn't going to be a 1973 show. We had an extremely well-received show in 1988, to the point of getting letters from long-standing Aggie faithful praising the show and performance. (It was an election year theme, tamed a bit and at least seeming patriotic in some ways, but still got some hits in.)

(Maybe Grungy or someone else from that era remembers, but I believe we actually didn't go in 1990. I'm pretty certain I watched from the stands for one of the games. Or maybe I have that backwards, where I went with them in 1990, but watched from the stands in 1988, because we had to take a smaller band.)

So, on one level, I understand, but am extremely frustrated with the position taken. And really wish they would seek a way to get there, despite the seeming roadblocks. Because you know what? I firmly believe they could be ready, or have a pep band (like SMU used to travel with in their post-death penalty days), or whatever it takes.

Supporting the MOB doesn't mean I have to blindly support this decision, either. And I do know a lot of what goes into running the MOB - maybe from a different era, but I lived it, with all of the challenges, from the moment I signed up during O-week.
07-22-2013 04:31 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
(07-22-2013 03:52 PM)Chef Owl Wrote:  Quick show of the proverbial hands. How many of you were in the MOB? OK, how many of you know how to run a band program? OK. How many of you know what the current crop of MOBsters needs? Now I am personally of the opinion that it would be great for the MOB to show up in College Station. It would be on hell of an experience. But, having said that, I was in the MOB in the post SWC days. In talking to a great many old MOBsters they all agreed that not going to ATM was a good thing. That it was not like UT where the MOB was appreciated and laughed at/with. So yeah, maybe exposing brand new band members to this kind of thing is not the best idea right off the bat.

I also think you guys have no idea what the MOB is or how it is run. At other academic institutions the band is, for some, not optional and taken much more seriously than at Rice. At Rice the MOB is purely voluntary and optional. It requires no more commitment than one is willing and able to put into it. You can only make it to one game? Great, we will be glad to have you! Want to stick around for the entire season? Even better! While other schools start rehearsals well in advance of the beginning of school year, Chuck does not have that luxury. He does what he can with the time and resources he has. And he does a DAMN FINE JOB!!

I have nothing but respect for the man. He came in at a time when the MOB was in turmoil and provided vision, stability and guidance. He puts up with less than ideal support form the student body and sometime, it appears, from others. The MOB is the perfect band for a place like Rice. The band program is analogous to the football team. Yet some of you want Chuck to turn it into a program like one of the ESU's. Sorry. Not gonna happen.

And while I may not necessarily agree with him on this decision, I will support him and respect what he thinks is best. Some of you really need to lay off.

Chef (and others)... Not one person has suggested turning them into an ESU. In fact, it has generally been suggested that they go be themselves, just as they always have been.... because they are great ambassadors of the uniqueness and intelligence of this university.

How that gets turned into some sort of a "slight" of Chuck and all that he does is absolutely beyond me.

If the story is (as you imply) that A&M isn't a good place for our brand of humor, fine. A) that wasn't the official explanation and B) I'm more interested in having them be on TV than in impressing a bunch of Aggies. C) the history of the MOB is that it doesn't always care if you like them... and lots of UT fans don't... and many Aggies do.

I'm sure there are some who don't think playing A&M in our first game back is a good idea either, but that is what the schedule says.

The official response (understanding that it may be hiding some reality) is that it is too much to ask the students to do on short notice and that early road games leads to higher attrition. Some people have expressed excitement about the opportunity and some have expressed distaste for it. I'm guessing it's slanted towards distaste.

I played in the high school band. I also played football. I had to attend summer practices between my two a days even though I would never march in a game. That was a lot to ask, but I did it... because that is what was expected and that is what everyone else did. I've also been stage manager for a few musicals at a church put on by as many as 50 young teens with sports and school and all sorts of other commitments. This has nothing to do with becoming an ESU type band, but why do we expect students to show up for a meaningless game if we don't expect the band to show up for our biggest game? Why do we expect our alumni to? I don't care if its 20 people, I think they should go and play Louie and Bonnett and oh yeay and AFRH and cheer with the cheerleaders because that's what college kids do everywhere. I think you'd have a decent number of volunteers for that and I think they would come back with stories and some who didn't go would regret having not gone. I understand they can't put on a whole show as that means TONS of hours and lots of coordination that they just don't have. I've also seen Rice students (not to mention dozens of other schools student bodies) come up with all sorts of clever cheers and loosely choreographed routines in a matter of days.

If Chuck doesn't have the resources, whether it be credits or budget or anything else then we need to see to it that he gets them... because while I understand not sending at least a pep band to Marshall due to the cost, I just can't see not doing whatever we can to get them to College Station. If some students don't want to go, fine... It's not mandatory. I don't care if we end up with 3 tubas a drummer and a Kazoo... I'm betting they come back with some stories... and by God, THOSE people are invested in our games
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2013 04:40 PM by Hambone10.)
07-22-2013 04:37 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
Quote: This has nothing to do with becoming an ESU type band, but why do we expect students to show up for a meaningless game if we don't expect the band to show up for our biggest game?

This. To me, this says "When the going gets tough, Rice stays home".

And honestly, if showing up to the game = becoming an ESU band, then it really is time to shut up shop.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2013 04:54 PM by Antarius.)
07-22-2013 04:53 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
(07-22-2013 03:52 PM)Chef Owl Wrote:  And while I may not necessarily agree with him on this decision, I will support him and respect what he thinks is best. Some of you really need to lay off.

Lay off? At what point in this thread did this become any sort of attack on Chuck? You act as if we have been calling for his head.

If we can't get our band in the stands for a game of this magnitude (that just happens to be right up the road) then there's an issue. That's my opinion but it doesn't mean that I don't respect the time and effort that Chuck and all the band members put forth.

If we can't have a spirited/respectful debate on these forums then what's the point? Are we obligated to blindly accept every decision that the higher-ups at Rice make because we are not privy to their inside information?
07-22-2013 05:15 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
Besides if the MOB wanted to go and A&M said no we would have even a bigger story to sell.
07-22-2013 06:08 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
(07-22-2013 12:07 PM)cthrockmorton Wrote:  Hi Parliament,

Thanks for all the offers to help, it is good to see.

I understand all the passion, and the appeal to tradition. The thing is, any trip we take as The MOB must first and foremost be good for the *students.*

This trip would take brand new Owls, give them only 3 hours of *total* rehearsal time to prepare for their biggest show of the year, and then throw them into a fanatical football atmosphere that is not a part of any tradition they know (it has been more than 10 years since we played A&M in football AFAIK).

And then I would tell them that band is fun, and not going to add stress to their Rice life.

You have all listed many great reasons to represent the university in College Station. But my decision-making starts with what is best for the students. That is why I have decided not to go there this time.

Feel free to contact me cthrock@rice.edu or director@mob.rice.edu
Thanks for noticing us, and Go OWLS!

Chuck Throckmorton
Director of Bands
Rice University

Chuck, we love ya.

Not going to A$M for the valid reasons stated is just one more manifestation of a larger problem, not of Chuck's making. In an athletics budget already under stress, there haven't been many dollars to support "fringes" like the MOB, and the Shepherd School hasn't been much help either. So we're left with a volunteer student MOB that probably reflects some of the same apathy rather prevalent among current undergraduates.

Old guys like me remember the MOB of '73, who went to UT, poked fun at the Longhorn Band (and themselves), and got a standing O from all there. Then they came back to campus, poked fun at the Aggies at halftime (who were unexpectedly losing at the time), and then when Rice pulled out a victory at the last minute of the game, which REALLY irritated the Aggie faithful, the MOB got trapped in HRS by an unruly Aggie mob (lower case). The Aggies looked like total jerks, and the MOB like heroes.

So much as I would like to see the MOB go fly the Rice flag in College Station and poke some good-natured fun at the always juicy target Aggies, I'm afraid today's undergraduates (including those in the MOB) just don't see that as rewarding. I wish they did, but volunteers get to vote with their feet.
07-22-2013 06:11 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
You guys really don't understand what I mean by become more like an ESU band, do you? ESU bands have a lot of practice and rehearsal and commitment form the students (whether willfully or not is another discussion). The MOB does not operate like that. The MOB is purely an extra curricular that serves as a way for students to blow off steam and have fun and distract themselves from the academic grind and rigor that is Rice University. That is why they have the freedom to do as much as they want or can do with the MOB. That being said, students are and will always be the life blood of the MOB. You start trying to make the MOB more like and ESU band and it will wither and die.

Now some have said that no one is calling for Chuck's head. OK. But why then suggest to get in contact with the Interim AD to go over his head and force his hand. I mean really!
07-22-2013 06:50 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
When I heard the MOB wasn't going, my first thought was, "well that's OK, because better not to go than to do an unprepared show." But now as I've thought of this more, I realize this really, perhaps more than any one thing I've noted over the years, is the indicator of the end - - the end of us being relevant at all in big time sports. Maybe some of you are thinking, "duh". But personally, I CANNOT IMAGINE being an upcoming senior MOBster in May of 2013, and not already making major conspiratorial plans to implement over the summer in anticipation of this.

At this stage in the game I think it's too late to consider a half-time show, but I agree that it would take relatively little effort to sit in the stands for one game, that close to home. I'm also not coming down on Chuck about this. It may very well be that today's students just simply don't get this at all like we do. And that's why this is so concerning, really.

No one has mentioned the expectation of full sun and 100 degree heat....in MOB uniforms....
But again, an opportunity for greatness instead! Carry large mounted fans and misters; beachballs; bikinis; everyone in blue/gray shorts and flip-flops, and sombreros. MILLIONS of TV viewers would think Rice was the coolest school this side of Stanford.

If we weren't so distracted by our other AD problems, I'd assume that SOMEBODY, somewhere in the AD would have approached Chuck and senior MOBsters and said in effect, "tell us what you need - this requires a big effort - free pizza and movies and swim parties every night for all who come to campus a week early for rehearsals? fine, you name it, you got it!"
07-22-2013 07:21 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
Let me preface this by saying that I fully support Chuck's decision to not take The MOB to Kyle Field, and include that I have pretty much kept my mouth shut about the possibility of the trip since learning that the Aggies were on the schedule.

The entire scenario brings to mind one of Ken Dye's life lessons - "What do we have to gain from this?"
He would ask The MOB's show writers this question whenever something particularly caustic was suggested.
What was the return on investment?
Was what we were saying worth the trouble it might cause?

Sometimes it is.
The Tulsa Inferno show is an example.

So, what do we have to gain from making the trip to Kyle Field?

The "pro" of supporting the team is the only real positive that I see.
That's the big one for me.

The "cons"...
Would The MOB be seated near enough to the visiting team bench to be heard by the team?
Would The MOB be seated near enough to the visiting fan seats to be heard by the Owl fans?
Would The MOB travel enough people to even hear themselves, if the Aggies decide to drown them out?
Would The MOB get in some sort of trouble?
Would anyone in The MOB get hurt?
Would any of the freshlings return for the Kansas game if the experience was really bad?
Could The MOB survive losing a class of freshlings?

We're also basing this entire discussion on the premise that the Aggies have seats available for The MOB.
That might not be the case.
Ohio State flat-out told The MOB that they didn't have room for a visiting band a few years ago.
Since the trip was never planned, the question of available seating hasn't been broached.

Sticking it to the Aggies?
They have no history of being good sports about it.
There is a big down-side to this.
It's hard to stick it to them without getting stuck back, and we'd be at their place, with nowhere to hide.
Doing a milquetoast show while roasting in the sun is not a great way to show that The MOB is lots of fun.

Writing a show for the Aggies requires finesse and subtlety, to try to avoid any of their hot buttons, and they have imaginary hot buttons, too.
Writing for them is one of the most difficult things that I've had to do.
I was hoping none of us would ever have to do it again.
It's not a great way to start a season.

Being on TV, even national TV?
Who cares?
What is so special about being on TV?
The cost is having ESPN in charge of telling the stadium staff to tell the bands when they can play, and for how many seconds.
Call a tune, get the music out, be ready to play, and watch the moment pass, as the voices never say "go".
Repeat, ad nauseum...
The opportunities to play would likely be a lot fewer than what the bowl voices gave us last year in Fort Worth.
The Aggies could also seat the band where the TV cameras can't find them.

Half of the band will be freshlings.
Half of the band will essentially be sight-reading the show, goggle-eyed at all of it, and fuzzy on what's going on, just as I was for the A&M game in '73 (although that one was in November).
They will have no clue what's going on and we'll dump them into the biggest pressure cooker this band has ever known (bigger still, because they seat a lot more since the last time we were there).
Bigger than Notre Dame, bigger than Michigan (I wasn't there, but their 100k+ wasn't predisposed to dislike us).

We'd have the same fabulous experience in the stadium that our fans have - crappy seats, but we'd do it with no extra seats for our instruments, in hot, black uniforms in the sun at noon in August in Texas.
Away game seating really sucks, and it sucks worse for the band.

One of the draws of away games is getting to spend some time in the town we're visiting.
This would be a day-trip to College Station.
'nuf said.

The road trip is also a tool for encouraging regular attendance by MOBsters.
A member would only be able to travel with the band by meeting some minimum attendance requirement.
That doesn't work when the first game is the big trip.

This very vocal group of fans in the Parliament talks about willingness to pay for us to get there.
Would they be on the field to cover our backs during our escape?
Would they bail us out of jail?
Would they visit us in the ER, attend our memorials, and explain to the parents of freshlings why it was important for us to support the team?

I would go with the band, if it came to that, because the team deserves the support, but more because the freshling MOBsters deserve to have someone covering their backs.
But I'd be in full paranoid mode from about Hempstead on the way there and well after the buses were unloaded after coming back.
07-22-2013 08:00 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
One other question---would seating for the MOB cut into the allotment of tickets that Rice has available to sell for the game? Perhaps that is entering into the decision...
07-22-2013 08:02 PM
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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
Just to throw this in, I've had coworkers who were in elementary school like I was the last time Rice played A&M tell me they were looking forward to the MOB's show this year. I don't think any Aggies would be hostile towards the band unless we are winning at half. Honestly I hope the MOB would just smile and enjoy it at that point because I know I would.
07-22-2013 08:36 PM
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ETx Owl Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Owl band must go to College Station
Been to a lot of Aggie games since my kids went/go there. Only visiting band that marched, was Baylor 2 years ago. Some bring smallish parts, but you cannot hear them. Even Aggies fuss about the jumbotron-in that they cannot do their yells until advertisements are over. Plus they would be sitting in bottom corner facing sun, not an inviting atmosphere.
07-22-2013 09:34 PM
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