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P5 and the American battle
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #21
RE: P5 and the American battle
(07-21-2013 10:24 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  
(07-20-2013 07:01 PM)FromTheInside Wrote:  We all know the struggle right now. Uconn and Cincy feel very left out. Temple and USF to a lesser degree. We know the p5 are trying to get what they want or threat to split and everything going on around college football. In all reality at so point soon or down the road schools like uconn, Cincy and BYU types are going to get homes in the p5. But for now we sit as we sit.

The American is next best. You can for sure argue that BSU or BYU are better than any American team(on the field) but overall the American is the next best. But it's to small and to new. Uconn could win both bball ships next year and Cincy could get the last BCS bid but those 2 can't go it alone. What the American needs is to throw a major curve ball. A crazy one. One that is both a game changer to the college football landscape and one that helps the league money and power wise.

The p5 currently has what 65 teams? Most states that matter politics wise also. They have great bowls nd all that stuff. It's time for "the American" to flex its muscle and use its name to its advantage.

4 divisions and 4 division winners
40 teams
Markets, states, fanbases, potential

West- Boise, BYU, Fresno, SDSU, UNR, UNLV, wy, af, haw, nm or nmst
South- uh, SMU, rice, nt, Tulane, Mem, Tulsa, latech, smiss, ark st
East- USF, UCF, fiu, fau, gast, Uab, ecu, app, uncc, mt
North- uconn, Cincy, ny, umass, Ohio, jmu, odu, navy, army, UDel

25+ states. Best of the best. Schools with potential and history. Rivals. Geography. Bowl game galore. Kills off the Mwc, Cusa and crew. It's the best of the rest. If a couple schools move up to the p5 u then back fill. Utah st, sj, Utep, Troy, nill and so on. Plenty.

The point is you force yourselves to join the breakaway of the NCAA or a new division. Betwen Boise football, uconn basketball, rice baseball and so on you keep a seat at the table. You have to many worth while products together under one identity to be ignored. Go ahead add in Zaga, vcu and witchita bball for the 3 service academies bball wise. The point stays the same. Force the conversation. Dare the p5 to mess with this league politically. Schools like UDel, north Texas and Fresno may seem out there, but they bring heads. Alums. Students, locals, politicians. Together a war can be fought. 9 states of those in this conference have no p5 teams. They together have a good amount of sway politics wise.

Game on.

BYU probably won't go regardless. If they were willing to bend on a few things (not the no Sunday rule), they'd probably would have already been in the Big 12. Regardless, they are trying the Notre Dame model right now and seem to like it.

The rest will go if you can get the American and Mountain West onboard, but I don't see either wanting too. Right now, both conferences precieve themselves as stronger than the rest and financially that's very true. Joining into this one giant conference means loosing that advantage.

While the new conference as a whole might be more powerful than the current American or Mountain West, it doesn't give the current individual members more power or money. They'd be splitting the pie more ways in all likihood (even with unequal revenue sharing). Beyond that, the odds of an individual member of the American or Mountain West making a CFP bowl are probably just as great in a smaller conference than a bigger one. While the bigger one makes it easier to make up for a loss, the smaller one highlights their team more and gives them less risk at the end of the season.

If the conferences actually did this set-up though, it would sure be interesting. Since NCAA rules only allow CCGs with round robin divisions (an exception was given to the MAC who took in a homeless Temple and then again when they were left with an odd number after Temple left, but that probably wouldn't happen here ). My guess is the set-up would basically have to work like this.

1. Two formal football only conferences (tied together and advertised together, but with 2 conference trophies).
2. Two 10 team divisions playing round robin in each. That means 9 conference games.
3. CCGs the next to last week of the season.
4. The last week of the season is left open and not scheduled till the week before. Teams are matched up based on standings between the 2 conferences with the top two playing a championship game. In one year, one conference host the games and in the next, the other (so home schedules would still be known ahead of time).

Practically though, it would work a lot better with 36 or even 32 teams. With 40 and using current rules, you only allow for 2 free non-conference games.

If something like this was contemplated, it would probably closer to just a straight up merger between the AAC and the MW. Maybe a there might be a way to fit in S Miss, but--I think the 24 MW and AAC teams would build a pretty decent best of the rest conference that would garner plenty of interest without being as unwieldy and arbitrary as the 40 team model. That gives you four 6-team divisions. You could stretch it to 28 if there were strategic additions for television, to pick up a value adding school, or to correct a geographic imbalance--but I think the straight up 24 team merger works best.
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2013 03:42 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-21-2013 11:20 AM
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Minutemen429 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: P5 and the American battle
(07-20-2013 10:23 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(07-20-2013 09:47 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  
(07-20-2013 08:56 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i think the american & mwc are pretty equal.

the best thing going for the mwc is that they didnt expand and their current group of teams are all traditionally rivaled with each other. as the b12 proved, sometimes bigger isnt always better

of the g5 byu, cincy, sdsu, & bsu (i may have missed a few teams) are in this weird class of not quite a true p5 school but better than most g5 schools.

but maybe with the new money the p5 is racking in and all these new fbs schools being added, it may be better for the p5/g5 to split. should alabama & umass really be competing for the same championship? i firmly believe that if a team wins every game, regardless of their sos they should not be excluded from a chance to play for the NC, and the best way to to that is most likely by splitting these two groups of schools.

honestly as good as uconn is and even though they are a land grant school, considering the age of their FB program as an fbs school and the limitations they face geographically both with joining other conferences and the northeasts lack of support for cfb & landgrants im not sure this program (and temple for similar reasons) are really cut out for p5 status.

Should Syracuse, Northwestern or Colorado be competing for the same championship as Alabama? not to defend UConn but what geographical limitations do they face that BC or Cuse don't face

well considering that all 3 of the programs you mentioned have well established history with either a power conference or in syracuse's case playing as an indy against pitt, bc, wvu, md & psu.

cuse & cu have won nattys before and are pretty high on the all time wins list. so yes clearly they should be competing for the same natty as bama

being in new england makes them slightly geographically isolated for even the acc/b10 let alone the b12. if this school was located on the edge of b12/b10/acc/sec territory, conf realignment might have been different.

outside of PA, there are only 4 land-grant d1 schools, and all 4 of them do not have consistent d1 history. its hard for a landgrant to prosper in the NE because the private schools have so much political power

bc/cuse are both private but have extensive d1 history whereas uconn is relatively new to the d1 level

yup a bunch of teams used to be good before I was born
07-21-2013 12:21 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: P5 and the American battle
(07-21-2013 12:21 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  
(07-20-2013 10:23 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(07-20-2013 09:47 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  
(07-20-2013 08:56 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i think the american & mwc are pretty equal.

the best thing going for the mwc is that they didnt expand and their current group of teams are all traditionally rivaled with each other. as the b12 proved, sometimes bigger isnt always better

of the g5 byu, cincy, sdsu, & bsu (i may have missed a few teams) are in this weird class of not quite a true p5 school but better than most g5 schools.

but maybe with the new money the p5 is racking in and all these new fbs schools being added, it may be better for the p5/g5 to split. should alabama & umass really be competing for the same championship? i firmly believe that if a team wins every game, regardless of their sos they should not be excluded from a chance to play for the NC, and the best way to to that is most likely by splitting these two groups of schools.

honestly as good as uconn is and even though they are a land grant school, considering the age of their FB program as an fbs school and the limitations they face geographically both with joining other conferences and the northeasts lack of support for cfb & landgrants im not sure this program (and temple for similar reasons) are really cut out for p5 status.

Should Syracuse, Northwestern or Colorado be competing for the same championship as Alabama? not to defend UConn but what geographical limitations do they face that BC or Cuse don't face

well considering that all 3 of the programs you mentioned have well established history with either a power conference or in syracuse's case playing as an indy against pitt, bc, wvu, md & psu.

cuse & cu have won nattys before and are pretty high on the all time wins list. so yes clearly they should be competing for the same natty as bama

being in new england makes them slightly geographically isolated for even the acc/b10 let alone the b12. if this school was located on the edge of b12/b10/acc/sec territory, conf realignment might have been different.

outside of PA, there are only 4 land-grant d1 schools, and all 4 of them do not have consistent d1 history. its hard for a landgrant to prosper in the NE because the private schools have so much political power

bc/cuse are both private but have extensive d1 history whereas uconn is relatively new to the d1 level

yup a bunch of teams used to be good before I was born

and your team is umass........

should you of all people really be smack talking about program history?
07-21-2013 12:30 PM
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Minutemen429 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: P5 and the American battle
(07-21-2013 12:30 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(07-21-2013 12:21 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  
(07-20-2013 10:23 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(07-20-2013 09:47 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  
(07-20-2013 08:56 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i think the american & mwc are pretty equal.

the best thing going for the mwc is that they didnt expand and their current group of teams are all traditionally rivaled with each other. as the b12 proved, sometimes bigger isnt always better

of the g5 byu, cincy, sdsu, & bsu (i may have missed a few teams) are in this weird class of not quite a true p5 school but better than most g5 schools.

but maybe with the new money the p5 is racking in and all these new fbs schools being added, it may be better for the p5/g5 to split. should alabama & umass really be competing for the same championship? i firmly believe that if a team wins every game, regardless of their sos they should not be excluded from a chance to play for the NC, and the best way to to that is most likely by splitting these two groups of schools.

honestly as good as uconn is and even though they are a land grant school, considering the age of their FB program as an fbs school and the limitations they face geographically both with joining other conferences and the northeasts lack of support for cfb & landgrants im not sure this program (and temple for similar reasons) are really cut out for p5 status.

Should Syracuse, Northwestern or Colorado be competing for the same championship as Alabama? not to defend UConn but what geographical limitations do they face that BC or Cuse don't face

well considering that all 3 of the programs you mentioned have well established history with either a power conference or in syracuse's case playing as an indy against pitt, bc, wvu, md & psu.

cuse & cu have won nattys before and are pretty high on the all time wins list. so yes clearly they should be competing for the same natty as bama

being in new england makes them slightly geographically isolated for even the acc/b10 let alone the b12. if this school was located on the edge of b12/b10/acc/sec territory, conf realignment might have been different.

outside of PA, there are only 4 land-grant d1 schools, and all 4 of them do not have consistent d1 history. its hard for a landgrant to prosper in the NE because the private schools have so much political power

bc/cuse are both private but have extensive d1 history whereas uconn is relatively new to the d1 level

yup a bunch of teams used to be good before I was born

and your team is umass........

should you of all people really be smack talking about program history?

I am a UMass fan we're new, I get it but you trashed us. You're a fan of a bunch of teams, but if UMass plays Bama yup they're gonna get their ass kicked. if Cuse, Northwestern or Colorado play Bama, yup they're gonna get their ass kicked.
07-21-2013 12:36 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: P5 and the American battle
the difference is cu/nw/su have the resources to pull off those periods of success, umass doesnt

sooner or later they will bounce back
07-21-2013 12:43 PM
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Minutemen429 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: P5 and the American battle
We'll see, If you're in a P5 conference you have a huge advantage. Kids don't give a s*** what college they go to. They want to get to the NFL or NBA look at UNC look at Fab Melo
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2013 12:57 PM by Minutemen429.)
07-21-2013 12:48 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: P5 and the American battle
(07-21-2013 12:48 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  We'll see, If you're in a P5 conference you have a huge advantage. Kids don't give a s*** what college they go to. They want to get to the NFL or NBA look at UNC look at Fab Melo

yeah cuz obviously kids are just lining up to play for schools like umass

if you have the talent......where ever you go the NFL will find you, but saying that kids dont give a sh.. about what school they go to is the biggest myth out there
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2013 02:04 PM by john01992.)
07-21-2013 02:04 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #28
RE: P5 and the American battle
(07-21-2013 12:19 AM)Flying Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-20-2013 10:24 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(07-20-2013 09:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  You're crazy if you think Cincy and UConn feel any more left out than USF. Bizarre thing to say. 01-wingedeagle

as i said i might have missed a few teams, and usf is one of them

The reason they keep saying that are because those schools tend to be mentioned in for the next conference realignment wave. Nothing against USF.

Not that it would matter in terms of how much USF feels left out, but for the record, Cincy and UConn do not tend to get mentioned more for promotion to P5 than does USF. It all depends on what conference is being talked about.

E.g., while the odds of either getting any P5 bid in the near future are extremely low, UConn probably has a better shot at getting into the B1G or ACC than USF, but USF has more viability for the Big 12 and SEC than UConn, while neither has a shot in a million at the PAC.
07-21-2013 03:04 PM
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texasorange Offline
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Post: #29
RE: P5 and the American battle
(07-20-2013 07:47 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  
(07-20-2013 07:43 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  I had meatloaf and mashed potatoes with gravy, for dinner.

Thank you


How dare you leave off the salad?

Eat your veggies05-nono

Agreed. Salad is needed, but I like your entrée choices!
07-21-2013 06:41 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #30
RE: P5 and the American battle
(07-20-2013 07:01 PM)FromTheInside Wrote:  http://csnbbs.com/jscripts/editor_themes...vision.gif
We all know the struggle right now. Uconn and Cincy feel very left out. Temple and USF to a lesser degree. We know the p5 are trying to get what they want or threat to split and everything going on around college football. In all reality at so point soon or down the road schools like uconn, Cincy and BYU types are going to get homes in the p5. But for now we sit as we sit.

The American is next best. You can for sure argue that BSU or BYU are better than any American team(on the field) but overall the American is the next best. But it's to small and to new. Uconn could win both bball ships next year and Cincy could get the last BCS bid but those 2 can't go it alone. What the American needs is to throw a major curve ball. A crazy one. One that is both a game changer to the college football landscape and one that helps the league money and power wise.

The p5 currently has what 65 teams? Most states that matter politics wise also. They have great bowls nd all that stuff. It's time for "the American" to flex its muscle and use its name to its advantage.

4 divisions and 4 division winners
40 teams
Markets, states, fanbases, potential

West- Boise, BYU, Fresno, SDSU, UNR, UNLV, wy, af, haw, nm or nmst
South- uh, SMU, rice, nt, Tulane, Mem, Tulsa, latech, smiss, ark st
East- USF, UCF, fiu, fau, gast, Uab, ecu, app, uncc, mt
North- uconn, Cincy, ny, umass, Ohio, jmu, odu, navy, army, UDel

25+ states. Best of the best. Schools with potential and history. Rivals. Geography. Bowl game galore. Kills off the Mwc, Cusa and crew. It's the best of the rest. If a couple schools move up to the p5 u then back fill. Utah st, sj, Utep, Troy, nill and so on. Plenty.

The point is you force yourselves to join the breakaway of the NCAA or a new division. Between Boise football, uconn basketball, rice baseball and so on you keep a seat at the table. You have to many worth while products together under one identity to be ignored. Go ahead add in Zaga, vcu and witchita bball for the 3 service academies bball wise. The point stays the same. Force the conversation. Dare the p5 to mess with this league politically. Schools like UDel, north Texas and Fresno may seem out there, but they bring heads. Alums. Students, locals, politicians. Together a war can be fought. 9 states of those in this conference have no p5 teams. They together have a good amount of sway politics wise.

Game on.

You want to solve the P5's problems for them by having the G5 voluntarily leave FBS? And you think the American will be more competitive by adding 6 FCS teams?

are you Gordon Gee?
07-21-2013 07:04 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #31
RE: P5 and the American battle
(07-21-2013 12:21 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  yup a bunch of teams used to be good before I was born

WVU was very good in the mid '00's (top 10 in '05, '05' and '07), and PSU went to the Rose bowl in '05 (finished #3) and was ranked in the top 10 in '08 and '09. BC was also ranked #1 during the '06 season. Heck, SU has been down for the last decade, but defeated a defending national champions Michigan in the late 90's and was a play away from beating Tennessee in '98 (when UT went undefeated and won the NC).

...when were you born?
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2013 07:41 PM by nzmorange.)
07-21-2013 07:40 PM
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