(07-04-2013 07:33 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:30 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:29 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:25 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

Quote:Economic conservative + socially liberal =/= liberal/progressive.

Economic conservative? Are you serious? You're the guy that argued for pages on end the tax cuts don't spur economic growth.

Either you don't have a clue what an economic conservative believes or you're just trolling us.

Yeah, I like to play devils advocate a lot.

Bull sh!t.

Go ahead and believe what you want. I know what I believe and don't believe.

Yes, I'm sure you know what you believe. The problem is you don't know how what you believe translates into political or economic philosophy.

I know what you've written here on multiple occasions. Economic conservative doesn't describe it. What you say you believe doesn't translate out of what you've actually written here.

(07-04-2013 07:35 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  So do tickle down economics = economic conservative?

Yes. I made a thread criticizing trick down economics, and most posters assumed I was automatically endorsing liberal economic policies.

(07-04-2013 07:35 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:33 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:30 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:29 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:25 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Economic conservative? Are you serious? You're the guy that argued for pages on end the tax cuts don't spur economic growth.

Either you don't have a clue what an economic conservative believes or you're just trolling us.

Yeah, I like to play devils advocate a lot.

Bull sh!t.

Go ahead and believe what you want. I know what I believe and don't believe.

Yes, I'm sure you know what you believe. The problem is you don't know how what you believe translates into political or economic philosophy.

I know what you've written here on multiple occasions. Economic conservative doesn't describe it. What you say you believe doesn't translate out of what you've actually written here.

What's your definition of being economically conservative? I don't consider the current trend in conservative economics to be the only defining feature of economically conservative.

(07-04-2013 07:36 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:35 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  So do tickle down economics = economic conservative?

Yes. I made a thread criticizing trick down economics, and most posters assumed I was automatically endorsing liberal economic policies.

You flatly said tax cuts don't spur economic growth. That is the antithesis of economic conservatism.

Niner- Define economic conservative and give a few examples please.

(07-04-2013 07:38 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:36 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:35 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  So do tickle down economics = economic conservative?

Yes. I made a thread criticizing trick down economics, and most posters assumed I was automatically endorsing liberal economic policies.

You flatly said tax cuts don't spur economic growth. That is the antithesis of economic conservatism.

Bullsh!t. Go look up the definition of economic/fiscal conservatism and tell me trickle down is a required belief. It's a trend in policy, it isn't the word of god.

(07-04-2013 07:39 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Niner- Define economic conservative and give a few examples please.

Only one criteria is important to the immediate discussion and that is low taxes. You have flatly said those don't spur economic growth. Economic conservatives don't believe you gain by taxing the rich more. You have said they should be. You've said you think cutting taxes = government spending, another antithesis to economic conservatism.

Economic conservatism believes in the free market. low taxes, less government spending, balanced budgets are among the pieces of it. Free trade and deregulation are also part of it.

You simply can't believe tax cuts don't spur economic growth and be an economic conservative. So you're not.

(07-04-2013 07:41 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:38 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:36 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:35 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  So do tickle down economics = economic conservative?

Yes. I made a thread criticizing trick down economics, and most posters assumed I was automatically endorsing liberal economic policies.

You flatly said tax cuts don't spur economic growth. That is the antithesis of economic conservatism.

Bullsh!t. Go look up the definition of economic/fiscal conservatism and tell me trickle down is a required belief. It's a trend in policy, it isn't the word of god.

Clearly you are ignorant of what trickle down actually is if you believe it's only basis is in lower taxes. There is more to it than that.

I didn't say trickle down was required to be an economic conservative. I specifically said low taxes. Your trying to distort what I said falls into one of those fallacies you're so fond of posting. But you don't understand those either.

(07-04-2013 07:51 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:39 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Niner- Define economic conservative and give a few examples please.

Only one criteria is important to the immediate discussion and that is low taxes. You have flatly said those don't spur economic growth. Economic conservatives don't believe you gain by taxing the rich more. You have said they should be. You've said you think cutting taxes = government spending, another antithesis to economic conservatism.

Economic conservatism believes in the free market. low taxes, less government spending, balanced budgets are among the pieces of it. Free trade and deregulation are also part of it.

You simply can't believe tax cuts don't spur economic growth and be an economic conservative. So you're not.

"Fiscal conservatism is a politicoeconomic philosophy with regards towards fiscal policy and the advocating of fiscal responsibility. Fiscal conservatives advocate and often consider avoiding deficit spending and the reduction of overall government spending and national debt as well as ensuring balanced budget of paramount importance. Fiscal conservatives would also support pay-as-you-go financial policies. Free trade, deregulation, lower taxes, and other conservative policies are also often, but not necessarily, affiliated with fiscal conservatism."

I was arguing that we can't cut taxes at the expense of a balanced budget, which is another defining aspect of fiscal conservatism. If you actually read what I posted in that thread, I was advocating for lowering taxes when we could handle it. In my opinion, it isn't wise to increase the deficit/debt based on a theory that's regarded with skepticism by economic experts. How about he cut spending and then spending?

You're arguing for a definition of fiscal conservative that isn't very accurate. Supply side economics is associated with fiscal conservatism, but it isn't a core tenant of it.

(07-04-2013 07:56 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  I was arguing that we can't cut taxes at the expense of a balanced budget, which is another defining aspect of fiscal conservatism.

That wasn't what you started with. You flatly stated tax cuts don't spur economic growth. That was your assertion.

Quote:If you actually read what I posted in that thread, I was advocating for lowering taxes when we could handle it.

Thus you are not an economic conservative.

Quote:In my opinion, it isn't wise to increase the deficit based on a theory that's regarded with skepticism by economic experts. How about he cut spending and then spending?

Yes, spending should be cut. Dramatically.

Also, your inability to recognize low taxes isn't the only part of trickle down is hindering your ability to grasp these concepts.

Your problem is you don't understand the role tax burden plays in economic growth. Once you grasp that you can take back your assertion tax cuts don't help economic growth, at which time you can honestly call yourself an economic conservative.

Quote:You're arguing for a definition of fiscal conservative that isn't very accurate. Supply side economics is associated with fiscal conservatism, but it isn't a core tenant of it.

I never said it was. Try sticking to what I say, not your interpretation of what I say. You get in trouble when you do that.

(07-04-2013 08:04 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:56 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  I was arguing that we can't cut taxes at the expense of a balanced budget, which is another defining aspect of fiscal conservatism.

That wasn't what you started with. You flatly stated tax cuts don't spur economic growth. That was your assertion.

Quote:If you actually read what I posted in that thread, I was advocating for lowering taxes when we could handle it.

Thus you are not an economic conservative.

Quote:In my opinion, it isn't wise to increase the deficit based on a theory that's regarded with skepticism by economic experts. How about he cut spending and then spending?

Yes, spending should be cut. Dramatically.

Also, your inability to recognize low taxes isn't the only part of trickle down is hindering your ability to grasp these concepts.

Your problem is you don't understand the role tax burden plays in economic growth. Once you grasp that you can take back your assertion tax cuts don't help economic growth, at which time you can honestly call yourself an economic conservative.

Your idea of fiscal conservatism is just a type of fiscal conservatism. It'd be like me arguing that you aren't Christian because you aren't Catholic.

(07-04-2013 07:51 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:39 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Niner- Define economic conservative and give a few examples please.

Only one criteria is important to the immediate discussion and that is low taxes. You have flatly said those don't spur economic growth. Economic conservatives don't believe you gain by taxing the rich more. You have said they should be. You've said you think cutting taxes = government spending, another antithesis to economic conservatism.

Economic conservatism believes in the free market. low taxes, less government spending, balanced budgets are among the pieces of it. Free trade and deregulation are also part of it.

You simply can't believe tax cuts don't spur economic growth and be an economic conservative. So you're not.

Actually I haven't said any of that.

I'm a monarchist. I believe in the divine right Obama has to the throne. Suck it.

Positive Rep me or I'll never let Prince Albert out of the can.

(07-04-2013 08:07 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Your idea of fiscal conservatism is just a type of fiscal conservatism.

So you're part of that branch of fiscal conservatism that doesn't believe low taxes are better for an economy. And to correct your analogy, it would be like you arguing I'm not a Christian simply because I don't believe in Christ.

(07-04-2013 07:36 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:35 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  So do tickle down economics = economic conservative?

Yes. I made a thread criticizing trick down economics, and most posters assumed I was automatically endorsing liberal economic policies.

(07-04-2013 07:35 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:33 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:30 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:29 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Yeah, I like to play devils advocate a lot.

Bull sh!t.

Go ahead and believe what you want. I know what I believe and don't believe.

Yes, I'm sure you know what you believe. The problem is you don't know how what you believe translates into political or economic philosophy.

I know what you've written here on multiple occasions. Economic conservative doesn't describe it. What you say you believe doesn't translate out of what you've actually written here.

What's your definition of being economically conservative? I don't consider the current trend in conservative economics to be the only defining feature of economically conservative.

The definition of an economic conservative is someone who believes the government's share of the economy should be about one-third of what it currently is.

Long term, large government = slow economic growth. Which results in more poverty, unemployment, and misery.

(07-04-2013 08:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:51 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 07:39 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Niner- Define economic conservative and give a few examples please.

Only one criteria is important to the immediate discussion and that is low taxes. You have flatly said those don't spur economic growth. Economic conservatives don't believe you gain by taxing the rich more. You have said they should be. You've said you think cutting taxes = government spending, another antithesis to economic conservatism.

Economic conservatism believes in the free market. low taxes, less government spending, balanced budgets are among the pieces of it. Free trade and deregulation are also part of it.

You simply can't believe tax cuts don't spur economic growth and be an economic conservative. So you're not.

Actually I haven't said any of that.

Sorry, got turned around. Was still typing to dmac.

(07-04-2013 08:09 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 08:07 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Your idea of fiscal conservatism is just a type of fiscal conservatism.

So you're part of that branch of fiscal conservatism that doesn't believe low taxes are better for an economy. And to correct your analogy, it would be like you arguing I'm not a Christian simply because I don't believe in Christ.

So, in your opinion, supply side economics are absolutely necessary to be economically conservative?

How about progressive tax rates? Should everyone pay income taxes (state and federal) at the same percentage or should there be graduated increases according to income?

(07-04-2013 08:12 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 08:09 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(07-04-2013 08:07 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Your idea of fiscal conservatism is just a type of fiscal conservatism.

So you're part of that branch of fiscal conservatism that doesn't believe low taxes are better for an economy. And to correct your analogy, it would be like you arguing I'm not a Christian simply because I don't believe in Christ.

So, in your opinion, supply side economics are absolutely necessary to be economically conservative?

What did I tell you about arguing against things I didn't say? Once again, you like to post about the fallacies yet you seem to not be able to understand them.

Supply side economics is not just low taxes. You need to get that through your thick skull.

What I'm saying is you can't believe low taxes don't spur economic growth and be a fiscal conservative. Low taxes are a must if you want to call yourself a fiscal conservative.

"From time to time a politician makes blunt claims that tax cuts increase government revenue (e.g. Mitch McConnell in July 2010 [66]) However, the Laffer Curve reflects the hypothesis that only cutting tax rates to the right of peak economic performance rate will increase revenues, and that cutting tax rates to the left of the peak rate will decrease revenues."

(07-04-2013 08:13 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  How about progressive tax rates? Should everyone pay income taxes (state and federal) at the same percentage or should there be graduated increases according to income?

I firmly support a flat tax across the board with certain credits for people under a certain income level.