UC is the best of the rest two top 25 teams already with the budget you point out actually aan amazing feat! They would increase the budget by at least 10 million the day we were invited if not by 20 million. We have the most dynamic president in the country right now. Attendance would also increase and we always have 65k seat PBS to play in anytime we want less than 3 miles from campus. The attendance last year was screwed by the fact TCU and or WVU did not come to town and we played two lower level teams.
As far as the Shoe goes we have 16 luxury boxes already more than most campus arenas
and plans remodeling etc after Nippert. Our endowment like all fluctuates but is a billion dollarson average. We have potential corporate donors waiting for the invite
to become even more involved.

We can only keep improving what we have as we wait for the next possible invites ..
You should come visit the worlds top 25 most beautiful campus in the world. Most of the new 70 million dollar project the U Square is about finished and it compliments the campus like not much I have ever seen bordering a campus.

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  UC is the best of the rest two top 25 teams already with the budget you point out actually aan amazing feat! They would increase the budget by at least 10 million the day we were invited if not by 20 million. We have the most dynamic president in the country right now. Attendance would also increase and we always have 65k seat PBS to play in anytime we want less than 3 miles from campus. The attendance last year was screwed by the fact TCU and or WVU did not come to town and we played two lower level teams.
As far as the Shoe goes we have 16 luxury boxes already more than most campus arenas
and plans remodeling etc after Nippert. Our endowment like all fluctuates but is a billion dollarson average. We have potential corporate donors waiting for the invite
to become even more involved.

We can only keep improving what we have as we wait for the next possible invites ..
You should come visit the worlds top 25 most beautiful campus in the world. Most of the new 70 million dollar project the U Square is about finished and it compliments the campus like not much I have ever seen bordering a campus.

Fortunately, we have 13 years that we can wait to see if Cincy does bring their athletics, athletics budget and attendance up to a P5 level. So we'll get to see one way or another. Promises on message boards mean nothing.

(07-17-2013 11:52 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-17-2013 10:26 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(07-15-2013 05:21 PM)gocards#1 Wrote:  *cough* attendance *cough*

Spare me. Put UC in the Big XII or ACC and play games in PBS and we would average 45K-50K a season. The attendance there for the UL (41,791), WVU (48,152), and Oklahoma (58,253) games shows that average. Noone says we are going to be some attendance powerhouse, but we have a solid program in a good market where people will watch good teams play.

ECU averaged over 47,000 playing in conference USA. South Florida, Pitt, and UofL have all averaged around 50,000 in the Big East in various years. I understand the competition can help raise your attendance, but let's be realistic here. There is no reason for Cincinnati to average only 29, 138 fans last year, lower than UTEP, Hawaii, Fresno St, San Diego St, UCF, Army, and Navy.

Don't get me wrong, last year's attendance was piss poor. I don't really know why either. They sold out the Pitt, Rutgers, and Miami (OH) games. The others were dismal. It didn't help we had to play 2 FCS teams, but the biggest limiting factor is the capacity. Obviously we aren't going to average 47K or 50k in a 35,000 seat stadium where 2k seats are barely worth any money. Anyone who has been to Nippert knows thats its an amazing stadium with a laundry list of challenges, not the least of which is a lot of poor seats (like the first 5 or so rows where you can't see.)

My point showing the PBS numbers was to illustrate what happens when you have room to sell. But you don't have to take my word for it. UC will have the opportunity to show it can do whats necessary to thrive. If they do, and we certainly have the leadership going down the right path, UC will be fine. UC will only move conferences when someone is forced to take someone for one reason or another, which is true for 70-80% of college programs, even in the access conferences.

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  UC is the best of the rest two top 25 teams already with the budget you point out actually an amazing feat!

There is no arguing that UC is one of the best of the rest alongside Boise St, BYU, and UConn. With that said, being one of the best of the rest and being a desirable/financially viable addition aren't necessarily the same thing. While conference expansion is based on a lot of different factors (geography, academics, athletic profile, market, etc), the most important one is whether the addition of a school can generate sufficient money to make expansion worthwhile. Rutgers athletic profile is quite underwhelming and they certainly weren't one of the best of the rest when they were invited to the Big 10. However, the Big 10 believed they could monetize Rutgers location and so they became a desirable expansion candidate. UofL wasn't selected by the Big 12 or ACC for expansion because neither viewed UofL has a money maker for the conference (ACC added UofL as a replacement which is different).

Money isn't the only factor, but it is what matters the most.

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  They would increase the budget by at least 10 million the day we were invited if not by 20 million.

That is true for every other school wanting to get into the ACC. UofL's budget will increase by at least 10 million when it joins the ACC simply due to the conference's better TV deal. UC shouldn't have to count on conference affiliation to increase its athletic budget. It needs to be able to raise its athletic budget on its own and show that it has an appropriate amount of fan and corporate support.

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  The attendance last year was screwed by the fact TCU and or WVU did not come to town and we played two lower level teams.

Fans should come to the game to watch UC play. Having to rely on opponents to increase home attendance or fill the stadium is not a promising sign.

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  As far as the Shoe goes we have 16 luxury boxes already more than most campus arenas

UC's standard shouldn't be "most campus arenas". Quite frankly, most campus arenas in D1 basketball are glorified high school gymnasiums. What UC needs to do is find a way to increase its athletic budget and selling luxury suites is one of the best ways to do it.

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  Our endowment like all fluctuates but is a billion dollarson average. We have potential corporate donors waiting for the invite to become even more involved.

#1. Endowment size matters very little to the size of the athletic budget. This was explained in an earlier post.

#2. The "potential corporate donors" line was parroted by a lot of Memphis fans before they were invited to the Big East. FedEx, AutoZone, the Liberty Bowl, etc were all just waiting on that invite and as soon as it came, they would all dump loads of cash into Memphis and the Big East. Guess how many of those potential corporate donors materialized?

Potential means absolutely nothing until it actually materialize. Potential donations don't fund facilities, restore scholarships, or increase the athletic budget; that is what actual donors do. UC might have a ton of potential corporate donors, but unless they actually get those individuals to give money, they really doesn't mean jack.

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  You should come visit the worlds top 25 most beautiful campus in the world. Most of the new 70 million dollar project the U Square is about finished and it compliments the campus like not much I have ever seen bordering a campus.

None of those things is a reason to expand and take UC. The ACC can't monetize a pretty campus or a mixed use housing facility.

(07-17-2013 05:05 PM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  UC is the best of the rest two top 25 teams already with the budget you point out actually an amazing feat!

There is no arguing that UC is one of the best of the rest alongside Boise St, BYU, and UConn. With that said, being one of the best of the rest and being a desirable/financially viable addition aren't necessarily the same thing. While conference expansion is based on a lot of different factors (geography, academics, athletic profile, market, etc), the most important one is whether the addition of a school can generate sufficient money to make expansion worthwhile. Rutgers athletic profile is quite underwhelming and they certainly weren't one of the best of the rest when they were invited to the Big 10. However, the Big 10 believed they could monetize Rutgers location and so they became a desirable expansion candidate. UofL wasn't selected by the Big 12 or ACC for expansion because neither viewed UofL has a money maker for the conference (ACC added UofL as a replacement which is different).

Money isn't the only factor, but it is what matters the most.

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  They would increase the budget by at least 10 million the day we were invited if not by 20 million.

That is true for every other school wanting to get into the ACC. UofL's budget will increase by at least 10 million when it joins the ACC simply due to the conference's better TV deal. UC shouldn't have to count on conference affiliation to increase its athletic budget. It needs to be able to raise its athletic budget on its own and show that it has an appropriate amount of fan and corporate support.

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  The attendance last year was screwed by the fact TCU and or WVU did not come to town and we played two lower level teams.

Fans should come to the game to watch UC play. Having to rely on opponents to increase home attendance or fill the stadium is not a promising sign.

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  As far as the Shoe goes we have 16 luxury boxes already more than most campus arenas

UC's standard shouldn't be "most campus arenas". Quite frankly, most campus arenas in D1 basketball are glorified high school gymnasiums. What UC needs to do is find a way to increase its athletic budget and selling luxury suites is one of the best ways to do it.

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  Our endowment like all fluctuates but is a billion dollarson average. We have potential corporate donors waiting for the invite to become even more involved.

#1. Endowment size matters very little to the size of the athletic budget. This was explained in an earlier post.

#2. The "potential corporate donors" line was parroted by a lot of Memphis fans before they were invited to the Big East. FedEx, AutoZone, the Liberty Bowl, etc were all just waiting on that invite and as soon as it came, they would all dump loads of cash into Memphis and the Big East. Guess how many of those potential corporate donors materialized?

Potential means absolutely nothing until it actually materialize. Potential donations don't fund facilities, restore scholarships, or increase the athletic budget; that is what actual donors do. UC might have a ton of potential corporate donors, but unless they actually get those individuals to give money, they really doesn't mean jack.

(07-17-2013 01:06 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  You should come visit the worlds top 25 most beautiful campus in the world. Most of the new 70 million dollar project the U Square is about finished and it compliments the campus like not much I have ever seen bordering a campus.

None of those things is a reason to expand and take UC. The ACC can't monetize a pretty campus or a mixed use housing facility.

Again, all of that is true. The UC poster is just repeating facts from admissions brochures. The endowment even at its peak, is not that impressive or meaningful in comparison to others. Unless he can state what the endowment of the athletic department specifically is, it doesn't matter at all. And then, it is only one of several components that make up the revenue of an athletic department. Primarily, some other factors are ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, conference revenue, annual donations, and institutional subsidies. The track record of an athletic department in utilizing that revenue also matters. If you are putting millions into women's hopscotch and letting football fester, that is an issue.

But no one is expanding any time soon, so what UC looks like in 2013 is completely moot.

A lot of UC fans need to realize that conferences just aren't going to expand. There has to be a reason for it. And very few programs move the needle absent other factors. Add in the fact that UC is very much a work in process and you can see why the luck and the timing just haven't been right for them to go anywhere.

The only way the ACC adds teams is if ND wants to join (which they won't unless they are forced to) or if for some reason they feel they need additional content/markets for their network. The only way the Big XII expands is if they are forced to for championship game/playoff purposes or if they feel vulnerable from a market standpoint.

I don't see this as that big of an insult. UL had their act together more than almost any school out there and still needed Maryland to take a cash grab to move. They certainly deserved it. But its not about deserving anything. Look at Rutgets for goodness sakes. UC is still working their way up from being a poorly run commuter school to a big time state university. Most schools would be in the same position UC is in if they were on the outside right now as well. We will have our chance to prove we belong if the upper echelon of universities, so UC fans need to take a deep breath and chill out a bit.

(07-03-2013 01:17 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:49 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  But it's not entirely clear what the B1G and ACC are fighting for. It's an area that doesn't give two flips about college football (outside ND maybe), which drives vastly disproportionate revenue.

The NY area schools were virtually the last picked on the playground. The previous conference anchored in that region imploded.

I'm not against making a move on NYC, but I hope it's a part of plan, particularly financially, that I've yet to see.

I'm actually very slightly intrigued by a UConn/Cinci expansion only as a way out of this horrid scheduling setup, but as a gambit to "solidify" the Northeast? I don't get it. It's like two guys in the desert stabbing at each other in a battle to control an empty well.

Good points. Agree on all. We're at 14. Which is scheduling suck. Four pods of four just makes everything HUGELY better on the scheduling front. So the question is how to get to 16. We all want ND as a full member and that gets to 15. So we need one more.

In order from most appealing to least ......

Pedo State, Tennessee, Florida, and Ohio State all fit within the footprint and open up valuable markets. But would they leave their home turf for bottom bucket BCS football? Doubtful. West Virginia fits within the footprint and brings a lot of fans, but nobody likes those fans, they behave deplorably, their academics are poor, and they have no media markets. Perhaps if they got serious about academics and sent their fans to obedience classes at the end of their GOR they'd be an option. Maryland continues torching their bridge, so it seems even more unlikely than the above teams joining that they come back. You could pull in Navy or some Navy hybrid or partial mix thereof (Navy fb only, Georgetown all but fb and Navy fb only, etc). But that's pretty jank. I'm flat out against UCONN.

Cincinnati is sort of the fallback option.

It is concerning regarding the long term viability of the league if there isn't some way to get to 16, preferably while picking up meaningful schools in Ohio, WV, and/or MD.

(07-02-2013 07:14 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Parting shots: The sooner the ACC permanently leaves Greensboro for New York City the better. It can't happen fast enough.

Well, GTS, we are....poof.... suddenly at 17 and only waiting on the Irish.
It looks like 3 X 6 as opposed to 4 X 4.

(12-03-2023 08:39 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-03-2013 01:17 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:49 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  But it's not entirely clear what the B1G and ACC are fighting for. It's an area that doesn't give two flips about college football (outside ND maybe), which drives vastly disproportionate revenue.

The NY area schools were virtually the last picked on the playground. The previous conference anchored in that region imploded.

I'm not against making a move on NYC, but I hope it's a part of plan, particularly financially, that I've yet to see.

I'm actually very slightly intrigued by a UConn/Cinci expansion only as a way out of this horrid scheduling setup, but as a gambit to "solidify" the Northeast? I don't get it. It's like two guys in the desert stabbing at each other in a battle to control an empty well.

Good points. Agree on all. We're at 14. Which is scheduling suck. Four pods of four just makes everything HUGELY better on the scheduling front. So the question is how to get to 16. We all want ND as a full member and that gets to 15. So we need one more.

In order from most appealing to least ......

Pedo State, Tennessee, Florida, and Ohio State all fit within the footprint and open up valuable markets. But would they leave their home turf for bottom bucket BCS football? Doubtful. West Virginia fits within the footprint and brings a lot of fans, but nobody likes those fans, they behave deplorably, their academics are poor, and they have no media markets. Perhaps if they got serious about academics and sent their fans to obedience classes at the end of their GOR they'd be an option. Maryland continues torching their bridge, so it seems even more unlikely than the above teams joining that they come back. You could pull in Navy or some Navy hybrid or partial mix thereof (Navy fb only, Georgetown all but fb and Navy fb only, etc). But that's pretty jank. I'm flat out against UCONN.

Cincinnati is sort of the fallback option.

It is concerning regarding the long term viability of the league if there isn't some way to get to 16, preferably while picking up meaningful schools in Ohio, WV, and/or MD.

(07-02-2013 07:14 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Parting shots: The sooner the ACC permanently leaves Greensboro for New York City the better. It can't happen fast enough.

Well, GTS, we are....poof.... suddenly at 17 and only waiting on the Irish.
It looks like 3 X 6 as opposed to 4 X 4.

Here is a live shot of that:





P.S. In related news, yesterday's game against Miami marked the 10th anniversary of the first ND conference basketball game in the ACC.

(12-03-2023 08:39 AM)XLance Wrote:  Well, GTS, we are....poof.... suddenly at 17 and only waiting on the Irish.
It looks like 3 X 6 as opposed to 4 X 4.

What made you decide to resurrect a thread from 2013?

(12-03-2023 10:10 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(12-03-2023 08:39 AM)XLance Wrote:  Well, GTS, we are....poof.... suddenly at 17 and only waiting on the Irish.
It looks like 3 X 6 as opposed to 4 X 4.

What made you decide to resurrect a thread from 2013?

A 10 year old unit measuring contest.....using pumps is cheating.

(12-03-2023 09:41 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(12-03-2023 08:39 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-03-2013 01:17 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:49 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  But it's not entirely clear what the B1G and ACC are fighting for. It's an area that doesn't give two flips about college football (outside ND maybe), which drives vastly disproportionate revenue.

The NY area schools were virtually the last picked on the playground. The previous conference anchored in that region imploded.

I'm not against making a move on NYC, but I hope it's a part of plan, particularly financially, that I've yet to see.

I'm actually very slightly intrigued by a UConn/Cinci expansion only as a way out of this horrid scheduling setup, but as a gambit to "solidify" the Northeast? I don't get it. It's like two guys in the desert stabbing at each other in a battle to control an empty well.

Good points. Agree on all. We're at 14. Which is scheduling suck. Four pods of four just makes everything HUGELY better on the scheduling front. So the question is how to get to 16. We all want ND as a full member and that gets to 15. So we need one more.

In order from most appealing to least ......

Pedo State, Tennessee, Florida, and Ohio State all fit within the footprint and open up valuable markets. But would they leave their home turf for bottom bucket BCS football? Doubtful. West Virginia fits within the footprint and brings a lot of fans, but nobody likes those fans, they behave deplorably, their academics are poor, and they have no media markets. Perhaps if they got serious about academics and sent their fans to obedience classes at the end of their GOR they'd be an option. Maryland continues torching their bridge, so it seems even more unlikely than the above teams joining that they come back. You could pull in Navy or some Navy hybrid or partial mix thereof (Navy fb only, Georgetown all but fb and Navy fb only, etc). But that's pretty jank. I'm flat out against UCONN.

Cincinnati is sort of the fallback option.

It is concerning regarding the long term viability of the league if there isn't some way to get to 16, preferably while picking up meaningful schools in Ohio, WV, and/or MD.

(07-02-2013 07:14 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Parting shots: The sooner the ACC permanently leaves Greensboro for New York City the better. It can't happen fast enough.

Well, GTS, we are....poof.... suddenly at 17 and only waiting on the Irish.
It looks like 3 X 6 as opposed to 4 X 4.

Here is a live shot of that:





P.S. In related news, yesterday's game against Miami marked the 10th anniversary of the first ND conference basketball game in the ACC.

Terry, we just have a difference of opinion of how things will end up playing out.

If in 2037 the Irish wanted to go independent and completely wash their hands of the ACC, I would be OK with that.

Personally, I would rather Notre Dame end up in the B1G, but I honestly don't think that is in the cards. We'll see.

(12-03-2023 10:10 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(12-03-2023 08:39 AM)XLance Wrote:  Well, GTS, we are....poof.... suddenly at 17 and only waiting on the Irish.
It looks like 3 X 6 as opposed to 4 X 4.

What made you decide to resurrect a thread from 2013?

I didn't do it.

I'd say the Pitt, SU and UL expansion worked out well, they represented 3 times combined in the ACCCG.

(12-03-2023 11:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(12-03-2023 09:41 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(12-03-2023 08:39 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-03-2013 01:17 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:49 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  But it's not entirely clear what the B1G and ACC are fighting for. It's an area that doesn't give two flips about college football (outside ND maybe), which drives vastly disproportionate revenue.

The NY area schools were virtually the last picked on the playground. The previous conference anchored in that region imploded.

I'm not against making a move on NYC, but I hope it's a part of plan, particularly financially, that I've yet to see.

I'm actually very slightly intrigued by a UConn/Cinci expansion only as a way out of this horrid scheduling setup, but as a gambit to "solidify" the Northeast? I don't get it. It's like two guys in the desert stabbing at each other in a battle to control an empty well.

Good points. Agree on all. We're at 14. Which is scheduling suck. Four pods of four just makes everything HUGELY better on the scheduling front. So the question is how to get to 16. We all want ND as a full member and that gets to 15. So we need one more.

In order from most appealing to least ......

Pedo State, Tennessee, Florida, and Ohio State all fit within the footprint and open up valuable markets. But would they leave their home turf for bottom bucket BCS football? Doubtful. West Virginia fits within the footprint and brings a lot of fans, but nobody likes those fans, they behave deplorably, their academics are poor, and they have no media markets. Perhaps if they got serious about academics and sent their fans to obedience classes at the end of their GOR they'd be an option. Maryland continues torching their bridge, so it seems even more unlikely than the above teams joining that they come back. You could pull in Navy or some Navy hybrid or partial mix thereof (Navy fb only, Georgetown all but fb and Navy fb only, etc). But that's pretty jank. I'm flat out against UCONN.

Cincinnati is sort of the fallback option.

It is concerning regarding the long term viability of the league if there isn't some way to get to 16, preferably while picking up meaningful schools in Ohio, WV, and/or MD.

(07-02-2013 07:14 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Parting shots: The sooner the ACC permanently leaves Greensboro for New York City the better. It can't happen fast enough.

Well, GTS, we are....poof.... suddenly at 17 and only waiting on the Irish.
It looks like 3 X 6 as opposed to 4 X 4.

Here is a live shot of that:





P.S. In related news, yesterday's game against Miami marked the 10th anniversary of the first ND conference basketball game in the ACC.

Terry, we just have a difference of opinion of how things will end up playing out.

If in 2037 the Irish wanted to go independent and completely wash their hands of the ACC, I would be OK with that.

Personally, I would rather Notre Dame end up in the B1G, but I honestly don't think that is in the cards. We'll see.

Yes, we have that difference of opinion.

I am completely comfortable with the status quo.

In fact, that is my strong preference, by far.

2037? Lol, who cares about 2037 ??