Curious on people's thoughts on what an All-Time Big East lineup would like with the new conference makeup. 2nd and 3rd team suggestions are more than welcome (I'm 99% sure G'Town owns every center).

I'll start:

PG: Allen Iverson, Georgetown
SG: Dwyane Wade, Marquette
SF: Chris Mullin, St. John's
PF: Maurice Lucas, Marquette
C: Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

Maybe the players should be from 1980 on...?
Otherwise I'd have to put:
PG Ernie D
SG Joe Hassett
SF Jimmy Walker
PF Marvin Barnes
C Patrick Ewing

(06-25-2013 08:13 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Curious on people's thoughts on what an All-Time Big East lineup would like with the new conference makeup. 2nd and 3rd team suggestions are more than welcome (I'm 99% sure G'Town owns every center).

I'll start:

PG: Allen Iverson, Georgetown
SG: Dwyane Wade, Marquette
SF: Chris Mullin, St. John's
PF: Maurice Lucas, Marquette
C: Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

What's the time frame?

(06-26-2013 08:45 AM)billyjack Wrote:  Maybe the players should be from 1980 on...?
Otherwise I'd have to put:
PG Ernie D
SG Joe Hassett
SF Jimmy Walker
PF Marvin Barnes
C Patrick Ewing

Well since half of the league wasn't even a part of the original Big East (1979), I'm assuming no. By decade would be interesting though.

Nice all Providence team + Ewing.

If I'm dealing just with players I saw, it would be:

C - Patrick Ewing (Georgetown)
PF - Maurice Lucas (Marquette)
SF - Mark Aguirre (DePaul)
SG - Chris Mullin (St. John's)
PG - Ernie DiGregorio (Providence)

(06-26-2013 11:36 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(06-25-2013 08:13 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Curious on people's thoughts on what an All-Time Big East lineup would like with the new conference makeup. 2nd and 3rd team suggestions are more than welcome (I'm 99% sure G'Town owns every center).

I'll start:

PG: Allen Iverson, Georgetown
SG: Dwyane Wade, Marquette
SF: Chris Mullin, St. John's
PF: Maurice Lucas, Marquette
C: Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

What's the time frame?

All-Time.

1. Allen Iverson, Georgetown
2. Dwayne Wade, Marquette
3. Chris Mullin, St. John's
4. George Mikan, DePaul
5. Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

For starters, here's a list of players from Big East teams who led their teams to national championships:

Dick McGuire, PG, St. John's - 1944 NIT champs
Walter Dukes, C, Seton Hall - 1953 NIT champs
Butch Lee, PG, Marquette - 1977 NCAA champs
Patrick Ewing, C, Georgetown - 1984 NCAA champs
Eddie Pinckney, C, Villanova - 1985 NCAA champs

And here's a list of players who led their teams to the Final Four:

Matt Howard, C, Butler - 2011 Runner UP
Gordon Hayward, F, Butler - 2010 Runner Up
Dante Cunningham, C, Villanova - 2009 Final Four
Jeff Green, F, Georgetown - 2007 Final Four
Dwayne Wade, G, Marquette - 2003 Final Four
John Morton, SG, Seton Hall - 1989 Runner Up
Billy Donovan, PG, Providence - 1987 Final Four
Chris Mullin, SG, St. John's - 1985 Final Four
Sleepy Floyd, SG, Georgetown - 1982 Runner Up
Mark Aguirre, SF, DePaul - 1979 Final Four
Maurice Lucas, PF, Marquette - 1974 Runner Up
Ernie DiGregorio, PG, Providence - 1973 Final Four
Howard Porter, SF, Villanova - 1971 Runner Up
Bob Zawoluk, C, St. John's - 1952 Runner Up
John Mahnken, C, Georgetown - 1943 Runner Up

And here are some guys who led their teams to NIT championships back when that mattered:

Dean Meminger, PG, Marquette - 1970 NIT champs
Ken McIntyre, SG, St. John's - 1965 NIT champs
John Thompson, C, Providence - 1963 NIT champs
Jim Hadnot, C, Providence - 1961 NIT champs
Tony Jackson, SF, St. John's - 1959 NIT champs
Joe Viviano, PF, Xavier - 1958 NIT champs
George Mikan, C, DePaul - 1945 NIT champs
Harry Boykoff, C, St. John's - 1943 NIT champs

And here are some who received National Player of the Year Award:

1978 - Butch Lee, PG, Marquette
1980 - Mark Aguirre, SF, DePaul
1985 - Patrick Ewing, C, Georgetown
1985 - Chris Mullin, SG, St. John's
1986 - Walter Berry, PF, St. John's
2003 - David West, PF, Xavier

(06-26-2013 01:12 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  1. Allen Iverson, Georgetown
2. Dwayne Wade, Marquette
3. Chris Mullin, St. John's
4. George Mikan, DePaul
5. Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

Yeah, hard to argue with Mikan unless this is position specific. If it is, Ewing v Mikan for the 1 Center spot would be an interesting fight.

First Team College Basketball All Americans from Big East Schools:

2013 - Otto Porter, SF, Georgetown
2012/13 - Doug McDermott, SF, Creighton
2010 - Scottie Reynolds, PG, Villanova
2006 - Randy Foye, SG, Villanova
2004 - Ryan Gomes, SF, Providence
2003 - Dwayne Wade, SG, Marquette
2003 - David West, PF, Xavier
1996 - Allen Iverson, PG, Georgetown
1996 - Kerry Kittles, SG, Villanova
1992 - Alonzo Mourning, C, Georgetown
1987 - Reggie Williams, SF, Georgetown
1996 - Walter Berry, PF, St. John's
1985 - Chris Mullin, SG, St. John's
1983/84/85 - Patrick Ewing, C, Georgetown
1982 - Sleepy Floyd, SG, Georgetown
1980/81 - Mark Aguirre, SF, DePaul
1978 - Butch Lee, PG, Marquette
1974 - Marvin Barnes, C, Providence
1973 - Ernie DiGregorio, PG, Providence
1972 - Jim Chones, C, Marquette
1971 - Dean Meminger, PG, Marquette
1966/67 - Jimmie Walker, PG, Providence
1953 - Walter Dukes, C, Seton Hall
1944/45/46 - George Mikan, C, DePaul
1943 - Harry Boykoff, C, St. John's
1942 - Bob Davies, PG, Seton Hall
1923 - James Lovely, Creighton
1911 - John Keenan, St. John's

What jumps out of this list is that there are 5 players who were first team All Americans multiple times:

Doug McDermott (Creighton)
Patrick Ewing (Georgetown)
Mark Aguirre (DePaul)
Jimmie Walker (Providence)
George Mikan (DePaul)

(06-26-2013 05:14 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 01:12 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  1. Allen Iverson, Georgetown
2. Dwayne Wade, Marquette
3. Chris Mullin, St. John's
4. George Mikan, DePaul
5. Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

Yeah, hard to argue with Mikan unless this is position specific. If it is, Ewing v Mikan for the 1 Center spot would be an interesting fight.

The argument against Mikan was that he played in an era when blacks weren't allowed to play. Once segregation ended in college basketball, there were simply better players. I proposed a fivesome without him and I stick by it:

C - Ewing (Georgetown)
PF - Lucas (Marquette)
SF - Aguirre (Marquette)
SG - Mullin (St. John's)
PG - DiGregorio (Providence)

But I certainly could be wrong.

(06-26-2013 11:25 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 05:14 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 01:12 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  1. Allen Iverson, Georgetown
2. Dwayne Wade, Marquette
3. Chris Mullin, St. John's
4. George Mikan, DePaul
5. Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

Yeah, hard to argue with Mikan unless this is position specific. If it is, Ewing v Mikan for the 1 Center spot would be an interesting fight.

The argument against Mikan was that he played in an era when blacks weren't allowed to play. Once segregation ended in college basketball, there were simply better players. I proposed a fivesome without him and I stick by it:

C - Ewing (Georgetown)
PF - Lucas (Marquette)
SF - Aguirre (Marquette)
SG - Mullin (St. John's)
PG - DiGregorio (Providence)

But I certainly could be wrong.

Well Aguirre is actually DePaul's. I would think Aguirre and Mullin would be considered SFs (along with Creighton Silas') for that spot.

How can you pick Mullin, or any SG, over Wade?

(06-27-2013 10:55 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 11:25 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 05:14 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 01:12 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  1. Allen Iverson, Georgetown
2. Dwayne Wade, Marquette
3. Chris Mullin, St. John's
4. George Mikan, DePaul
5. Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

Yeah, hard to argue with Mikan unless this is position specific. If it is, Ewing v Mikan for the 1 Center spot would be an interesting fight.

The argument against Mikan was that he played in an era when blacks weren't allowed to play. Once segregation ended in college basketball, there were simply better players. I proposed a fivesome without him and I stick by it:

C - Ewing (Georgetown)
PF - Lucas (Marquette)
SF - Aguirre (Marquette)
SG - Mullin (St. John's)
PG - DiGregorio (Providence)

But I certainly could be wrong.

Well Aguirre is actually DePaul's. I would think Aguirre and Mullin would be considered SFs (along with Creighton Silas') for that spot.

How can you pick Mullin, or any SG, over Wade?

Aguirre would have been Marquette, if Al didn't retire Aguirre could score. Boy, he could score. Didn't play any d, just like his NBA career. In addition to Mikan, Terry Cummings was a great college player too at DePaul.

Best MU player was Chones. MU was 49-1 with him in the lineup. They were 22-0 when he left early in his junior season to join the ABA. He never developed in the ABA, although he ended up having a nice, albeit disappointing NBA career. Wade was a very good college player, but guys like Butch Lee (National Player of the Year) were better college players relative to the times.

It is really tough to pick an all-time team. For example, Mikan was simply dominant during his time. Ewing was not. Great player, but did not outshine his competition as much as Mikan did. That said, Ewing was a better player, just not better relative to the era in which he played.

As a Packer fan, this debate rages all the time. Who is the greatest Packer? In terms of dominance, there is no debate. Don Hutson is probably not only the greatest Packer of all time, he is the greatest football player of all time. He dominated his generation like no other player before or since. However, was he more athletically gifted than today's receivers? Probably not.

There are lots of guys who were great college players that could be on the list. Iverson really had very little around him and yet he carried his team on his back. Benoit Benjamin was a great college player. Marvin Barnes at PC and Walter Berry at SJU were also very good. The list goes on and on.

(06-27-2013 11:36 AM)MU88 Wrote:  There are lots of guys who were great college players that could be on the list. Iverson really had very little around him and yet he carried his team on his back.

FWIW, four teammates of Iverson (Don Reid, Othella Harrington, Jerome Williams, Jahidi White) played seven or more seasons in the NBA.

(06-27-2013 11:36 AM)MU88 Wrote:  

(06-27-2013 10:55 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 11:25 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 05:14 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 01:12 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  1. Allen Iverson, Georgetown
2. Dwayne Wade, Marquette
3. Chris Mullin, St. John's
4. George Mikan, DePaul
5. Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

Yeah, hard to argue with Mikan unless this is position specific. If it is, Ewing v Mikan for the 1 Center spot would be an interesting fight.

The argument against Mikan was that he played in an era when blacks weren't allowed to play. Once segregation ended in college basketball, there were simply better players. I proposed a fivesome without him and I stick by it:

C - Ewing (Georgetown)
PF - Lucas (Marquette)
SF - Aguirre (Marquette)
SG - Mullin (St. John's)
PG - DiGregorio (Providence)

But I certainly could be wrong.

Well Aguirre is actually DePaul's. I would think Aguirre and Mullin would be considered SFs (along with Creighton Silas') for that spot.

How can you pick Mullin, or any SG, over Wade?

Aguirre would have been Marquette, if Al didn't retire Aguirre could score. Boy, he could score. Didn't play any d, just like his NBA career. In addition to Mikan, Terry Cummings was a great college player too at DePaul.

Best MU player was Chones. MU was 49-1 with him in the lineup. They were 22-0 when he left early in his junior season to join the ABA. He never developed in the ABA, although he ended up having a nice, albeit disappointing NBA career. Wade was a very good college player, but guys like Butch Lee (National Player of the Year) were better college players relative to the times.

It is really tough to pick an all-time team. For example, Mikan was simply dominant during his time. Ewing was not. Great player, but did not outshine his competition as much as Mikan did. That said, Ewing was a better player, just not better relative to the era in which he played.

As a Packer fan, this debate rages all the time. Who is the greatest Packer? In terms of dominance, there is no debate. Don Hutson is probably not only the greatest Packer of all time, he is the greatest football player of all time. He dominated his generation like no other player before or since. However, was he more athletically gifted than today's receivers? Probably not.

There are lots of guys who were great college players that could be on the list. Iverson really had very little around him and yet he carried his team on his back. Benoit Benjamin was a great college player. Marvin Barnes at PC and Walter Berry at SJU were also very good. The list goes on and on.

I think because college is only 3-4 years (and getting shorter) that pro success plays a very large role in this. Who are, literally, just the greatest all-time players to come from Big East schools (i.e., if you had to create the best possible starting 5 spot, who would it be?) Not saying college doesn't matter, but a ranking of the greatest college players/careers is just another thing entirely.

I know some old-timer Marquette guys don't love it (not calling you specifically old), but Wade already is the greatest Marquette player ever.

(06-27-2013 10:55 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 11:25 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 05:14 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 01:12 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  1. Allen Iverson, Georgetown
2. Dwayne Wade, Marquette
3. Chris Mullin, St. John's
4. George Mikan, DePaul
5. Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

Yeah, hard to argue with Mikan unless this is position specific. If it is, Ewing v Mikan for the 1 Center spot would be an interesting fight.

The argument against Mikan was that he played in an era when blacks weren't allowed to play. Once segregation ended in college basketball, there were simply better players. I proposed a fivesome without him and I stick by it:

C - Ewing (Georgetown)
PF - Lucas (Marquette)
SF - Aguirre (Marquette)
SG - Mullin (St. John's)
PG - DiGregorio (Providence)

But I certainly could be wrong.

Well Aguirre is actually DePaul's. I would think Aguirre and Mullin would be considered SFs (along with Creighton Silas') for that spot.

How can you pick Mullin, or any SG, over Wade?

Don't know how I posted Aguirre for Marquette. When I originally posted the list on page one, I posted DePaul. Sorry for the brain fart.

Although he played forward in the NBA, Mullin was a guard in college.

I pick Mullin because I enjoyed watching him play more than Wade. I don't really take this kind of thing all that seriously, so I pick the guys I like the most.

(06-27-2013 11:36 AM)MU88 Wrote:  

(06-27-2013 10:55 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 11:25 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 05:14 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(06-26-2013 01:12 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  1. Allen Iverson, Georgetown
2. Dwayne Wade, Marquette
3. Chris Mullin, St. John's
4. George Mikan, DePaul
5. Patrick Ewing, Georgetown

Yeah, hard to argue with Mikan unless this is position specific. If it is, Ewing v Mikan for the 1 Center spot would be an interesting fight.

The argument against Mikan was that he played in an era when blacks weren't allowed to play. Once segregation ended in college basketball, there were simply better players. I proposed a fivesome without him and I stick by it:

C - Ewing (Georgetown)
PF - Lucas (Marquette)
SF - Aguirre (Marquette)
SG - Mullin (St. John's)
PG - DiGregorio (Providence)

But I certainly could be wrong.

Well Aguirre is actually DePaul's. I would think Aguirre and Mullin would be considered SFs (along with Creighton Silas') for that spot.

How can you pick Mullin, or any SG, over Wade?

Aguirre would have been Marquette, if Al didn't retire Aguirre could score. Boy, he could score. Didn't play any d, just like his NBA career. In addition to Mikan, Terry Cummings was a great college player too at DePaul.

Best MU player was Chones. MU was 49-1 with him in the lineup. They were 22-0 when he left early in his junior season to join the ABA. He never developed in the ABA, although he ended up having a nice, albeit disappointing NBA career. Wade was a very good college player, but guys like Butch Lee (National Player of the Year) were better college players relative to the times.

It is really tough to pick an all-time team. For example, Mikan was simply dominant during his time. Ewing was not. Great player, but did not outshine his competition as much as Mikan did. That said, Ewing was a better player, just not better relative to the era in which he played.

As a Packer fan, this debate rages all the time. Who is the greatest Packer? In terms of dominance, there is no debate. Don Hutson is probably not only the greatest Packer of all time, he is the greatest football player of all time. He dominated his generation like no other player before or since. However, was he more athletically gifted than today's receivers? Probably not.

There are lots of guys who were great college players that could be on the list. Iverson really had very little around him and yet he carried his team on his back. Benoit Benjamin was a great college player. Marvin Barnes at PC and Walter Berry at SJU were also very good. The list goes on and on.

I loved Al McGuire's reaction to Chones' decision to leave Marquette. When everyone else was all high and mighty about Chones' decision, Al simply said: "I looked in his refrigerator and I looked in mine."

Any other coach would have been pissed because they are all self-important and selfish. But not Al. He looked at it from the kid's POV. He was one of a kind and I really miss him.

1. Allen Iverson (Georgetown)
2. Dwayne Wade (Marquette)
3. Doug McDermott, (Creighton)
4. Mark Aguirre, (DePaul)
5. Patrick Ewing, (Georgetown) / George Mikan (DePaul)

I can't choose on the Center. I agree with MU88 on this one

(06-27-2013 11:36 AM)MU88 Wrote:  It is really tough to pick an all-time team. For example, Mikan was simply dominant during his time. Ewing was not. Great player, but did not outshine his competition as much as Mikan did. That said, Ewing was a better player, just not better relative to the era in which he played.

Mikan just dominated the game during his time and it wasn't his fault blacks couldn't play against him but among his peers at the time, the guy was just too much even in the ABA/NBA level. A lot of the games rules were made/modified because of him.

Also, DePaul could have had Wade too but we ran out of scholarships and his grades were really really bad.

It always fascinated me how Iverson ended up at Georgetown. Here is a good write up on it.

Can I put Doug in there? Oh well I just did, thought we'd need someone in the "modern" era.

(06-27-2013 06:21 PM)ivet Wrote:  1. Allen Iverson (Georgetown)
2. Dwayne Wade (Marquette)
3. Doug McDermott, (Creighton)
4. Mark Aguirre, (DePaul)
5. Patrick Ewing, (Georgetown) / George Mikan (DePaul)

I can't choose on the Center. I agree with MU88 on this one

(06-27-2013 11:36 AM)MU88 Wrote:  It is really tough to pick an all-time team. For example, Mikan was simply dominant during his time. Ewing was not. Great player, but did not outshine his competition as much as Mikan did. That said, Ewing was a better player, just not better relative to the era in which he played.

Mikan just dominated the game during his time and it wasn't his fault blacks couldn't play against him but among his peers at the time, the guy was just too much even in the ABA/NBA level. A lot of the games rules were made/modified because of him.

Also, DePaul could have had Wade too but we ran out of scholarships and his grades were really really bad.

It always fascinated me how Iverson ended up at Georgetown. Here is a good write up on it.

Can I put Doug in there? Oh well I just did, thought we'd need someone in the "modern" era.

McDermott over Mullin?

(06-27-2013 11:36 AM)MU88 Wrote:  It is really tough to pick an all-time team. For example, Mikan was simply dominant during his time. Ewing was not. Great player, but did not outshine his competition as much as Mikan did. That said, Ewing was a better player, just not better relative to the era in which he played.

As a Packer fan, this debate rages all the time. Who is the greatest Packer? In terms of dominance, there is no debate. Don Hutson is probably not only the greatest Packer of all time, he is the greatest football player of all time. He dominated his generation like no other player before or since. However, was he more athletically gifted than today's receivers? Probably not.

I would disagree that Mikan was more dominant in the college basketball of his era than Ewing was. OTOH, he was more dominant in professional basketball than Ewing was.

Let's look first at championships. Ewing took his team to 3 finals in 4 years, winning one of them. One of the years they lost the championship, they lost it to a team from their own conference who was the better team that night. But Georgetown had dominated the Big East with 2 other Final Four teams during the regular season. Despite Villanova's championship, Georgetown was the dominant team that year, finishing the season ranked #1.

Mikan took DePaul to back-to-back NIT finals in an era when the college basketball postseason was split between 2 different tournaments with the result being that neither provided the level of competition of today's NCAA tournament. His DePaul team won the 1945 NIT over an 8 team field, but then with an opportunity to win a unified championship against NCAA champ, they lost to Oklahoma A&M in the Red Cross charity game. They lost in that game to the era's other dominant big man, Bob Kurland. And Kurland outplayed Mikan in that game, fouling him out in only 14 minutes and outscoring him 14 - 9. The previous year, DePaul lost in the NIT finals to St. John's with Mikan again fouling out after being held to just 13 points.

Mikan was anything but dominating in championship play. In contrast Georgetown had to go through Kentucky and Houston to win their 1984 title, 2 schools who possessed the era's other 2 top big men, Sam Bowie and Hakeem Olajuwon with Ewing's Georgetown team prevailing over both.

During the regular seasons of Mikan's & Ewing's junior and senior years, Georgetown went 34-3 and 35-3 while DePaul went 22-4 and 21-3. DePaul with Mikan was hardly any more dominating throughout the season than Georgetown was with Ewing.

As for changing the game, those Georgetown teams were brutal defensive teams with a style that college basketball had never seen before. It was Ewing's dominance inside that allowed them to play the kind of in-your-face defense that they did because if a defender got beat, Ewing was there to cover the mistake. It's no coincidence that the 3-point shot finally got enough support after 4 years of Hoya Paranoia. It became clear that something was needed to open up the game and pull defenders away from the basket and out of the paint.

As dominant was in the 1940's - and he was a dominant presence - he was no more dominant than Ewing was in the 1980's. Teams were intimidated against Georgetown before they even stepped on the court. The difference was that Mikan was a great scorer and rebounder while Ewing was a great defender and shot blocker. They dominated in different ways.