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If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #21
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
(06-25-2013 01:34 AM)CPslograd Wrote:  
(06-24-2013 11:16 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  
(06-24-2013 10:58 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I bought two tickets for an MLS game this weekend at Kansas City featuring the #4 team in the east vs. #6. I paid $68 a ticket on the secondary market a month ago. Today a ticket four rows behind me starts at $110. My nephew is a Texas Rangers season ticket holder. He went to the first game of the World Series and sold the rest of the games and made nearly enough to cover the cost of his season tickets.

Week before last we saw Wicked on Broadway and it was $165 ticket. At intermission, three mixed drinks and one coke was over $50.

Broadway ticket prices are insane but you have productions like Wicked costing millions of dollars to put on and they have to recoup the costs somehow. But them still charging $165 per ticket when they've made back their costs and a whole lot of profit is criminal.

I would never go see a Broadway production. I saw 3 touring companies when I lived in the SF bay area. I can't imagine that the Broadway productions were any better. I saw The Producers in London and I can't imagine the guy playing the Matthew Broderick role being any worse than Broderick himself.

Criminal? When did trying to make a buck become criminal? They are for profit enterprises, their goal is to make as much money as possible. Anyway, they don't set the price of the ticket, the market (end user) does. If the market value is $165, and the production/theatre sell them for $80, some hardworking and smart guy will buy them for $80 and sell them for $165.

Sellers don't control price. Ask any farmer.

As far as George and Steve and their hundred dollar movie tickets, they don't understand economics. The market is a bell curve, the vast majority of the opportunity for money from the movie going public is in the middle 80%. The theaters have set the optimized ticket price at about 10 bucks. If they could make more by raising the price, they would. If they could make more by lowering the price, they would. At the current time they generate the most revenue by charging about 10 bucks.

George and Steve need to stick to making movies.

1. His use of "criminal" was used as part of an expression.

2. What is white collar crime if it isn't somebody trying to make a buck? (other than the stuff of excellent movies)

3. I don't disagree about $100/ticket being a little much (see my earlier posts), and I think that George and Steve have a flair for the dramatic (see Star Wars), but I think that their point is that the supply would decrease faster than demand and when supply decreases in relation to demand, prices go up.
06-25-2013 03:24 AM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #22
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
(06-24-2013 10:58 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I bought two tickets for an MLS game this weekend at Kansas City featuring the #4 team in the east vs. #6. I paid $68 a ticket on the secondary market a month ago. Today a ticket four rows behind me starts at $110. My nephew is a Texas Rangers season ticket holder. He went to the first game of the World Series and sold the rest of the games and made nearly enough to cover the cost of his season tickets.

Week before last we saw Wicked on Broadway and it was $165 ticket. At intermission, three mixed drinks and one coke was over $50.

You sir need to invest in a flask.
04-cheers

...either that or start drinking more water.
06-25-2013 03:26 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #23
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
Lucas and Spielberg are predicting a division, a bi-furcation, between ultraexpensive luxury-good movies and cheap, why-bother-pirating-it movies.

Sports already has this bifurcation. You can go to the stadium for the full-throttle, premium-priced experience, complete with bands, restaurant-quality food and tailgating, or you can stay home for cheap and watch on TV.
06-25-2013 07:13 AM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #24
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
It is painfully easy to avoid commercial in live sporting events.
1. If you wait about about 10-15 minutes per hour before you start watching (about 45-60 minutes for a football game) you can watch the game, fast forward through the commercials and finish about the same time the game ends.
2. You may not be able to fast forward but you can rewind. I use commercial breaks to rewind and see some of the plays again. I just hit "live" to get back to the current point of the game. Networks do stagger the length of the breaks but it is not to difficult to get back to where I left off.

The PPV model doesn't work for college sports. Say Alabama averages $150 per seat (donation, ticket, concessions, souvenirs, parking, etc.). If a fan is going to pay PPV to watch the game they are going to have a group of at least 10 to watch with them. That means Alabama would have to charge $1,500 for the PPV to make the same revenue. I'm not sure if PPV or a stadium has higher overhead.
06-25-2013 07:55 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
What things cost is all about supply and demand, coupled with what customers are willing to spend their disposable income on. There are lots of fun things that you can do for less money, so I think lots of people will find new entertainment sources that cost less. And the entertainment providers will break into two business models just like there are today for example volume stores like Walmart with lower prices and then the over=priced department stores and specialty stores, which continue to lose market share. Car dealers are the same way. The volume dealers usually survive. Now how those, who price is no concern have much different buying habits. However, for the public in general, the consumers will decide this not the providers. 07-coffee3
06-25-2013 08:06 AM
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Post: #26
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
Superman: Man of Steel opened on something like 18,000 screens.

It's not crazy to think that in the future, a top movie might open on only 1,000 screens and charge $50 or $100 and run in the theatres for six months to a year instead of 2 to 4 weeks before moving to the dollar screens.
06-25-2013 08:32 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
I agree this could happen. However, I can wait! 07-coffee3
06-25-2013 08:37 AM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
For $50 a tix, I would hope they could spring for a large popcorn and soda. The extra 10 cents it would cost them might go over better with consumers 03-banghead
06-25-2013 08:39 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
I will stay home and watch Hell on Wheels, The Vikings, Game of thrones, The Walking Dead, The Swamp People, Wicked Tuna, NCIS, Hawaii Five O, The Bloods, The Big Bang Theory, etc. 04-cheers
06-25-2013 08:43 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #30
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
(06-25-2013 08:32 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Superman: Man of Steel opened on something like 18,000 screens.

It's not crazy to think that in the future, a top movie might open on only 1,000 screens and charge $50 or $100 and run in the theatres for six months to a year instead of 2 to 4 weeks before moving to the dollar screens.

That's what Hollywood might like to happen, but like I've said, I think it's heading in the exact opposite direction where content is going to have to be aggregated with other types of content in order to reach consumers. Trying to stand alone (whether you're Alabama in selling games or Warner Bros. in opening up Superman and Batman movies) is not going to be viable with the way that we consume mass market entertainment.

Now, people have shown to pay a premium for special "experiences". Hence, your experience going to a Broadway show, paying for good seats at a sporting event, seeing acts like the Rolling Stones in concert, etc. These are experiences that you can't easily replicate in your own home.

However, with respect to movies (and I believe with major sports unless you're sitting in great seats), I think what Lucas and Spielberg are arguing is to attempt to turn back time in a way that ultimately can't really work. Movies used to have runs in theaters lasting a year or more (and would be re-released in subsequent years if they were popular enough) in the pre-VCR days, but that time passed for a reason. Hollywood *wants* going to the movies to be that type of unparalleled "experience", but it's tough because of how much better technology is in our own homes. In fact, it's hard enough to get people to watch the tent pole movies like Man of Steel compared to 20 years ago, much less the ones that aren't associated with major franchises. People increasingly don't mind waiting a few months for the Blu-Ray or even a couple of years for a movie to be streamed on Netflix. Movie and TV producers are going to have to adapt to this world of aggregated and easy access to content in the same way that musical artists had to face almost immediately at the dawn of the wide use of the Internet with Napster and other file sharing services. Musical artists eventually had to find a price point to mitigate piracy (which meant selling singles for around $1 as opposed to trying to force us to buy entire albums for $15 or $20). No one will ever completely get rid of piracy, but music is now being sold at a level where most people don't have the need to find it for free in reaction to a feeling that they're getting ripped off if they pay for it. Selling movie tickets for $50 or $100 is, in essence, trying to get people to buy entire music albums again when they clearly don't want that and would only supercharge the piracy market.

Plus, once again, if Alabama thought that this pricing structure was going to permeate in the future, then why in the heck did they just GIVE UP their third tier rights where they were already doing exactly what you are proposing (i.e. sell rights on their own or charge for PPV)? It's because they can't (and don't) want to just rely on their hardcore fan base alone. The state of Alabama itself isn't that valuable in the scheme of things. A school that has great access to Texas, Florida and Georgia on top of owning the state of Alabama via the SEC, though, is extremely valuable.

Aggregation is still where we're heading - we want access to a huge suite of content for one "reasonable" price. The increasing rejection of basic cable is NOT a rejection of "buffet" pricing, but rather it's based in a belief that the price is no longer "reasonable". This is MUCH different than thinking that people will revert to PPV viewing habits, which they have continuously shown to hate compared to paying for basic cable or Netflix.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2013 09:40 AM by Frank the Tank.)
06-25-2013 09:33 AM
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Chappy Offline
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Post: #31
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
I don't think I can put faith in predictions from the guys that thought it would be a good idea to make a 4th Indiana Jones movie.
06-25-2013 10:11 AM
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Theodoresdaddy Offline
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Post: #32
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
(06-25-2013 03:24 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(06-25-2013 01:34 AM)CPslograd Wrote:  
(06-24-2013 11:16 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  
(06-24-2013 10:58 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I bought two tickets for an MLS game this weekend at Kansas City featuring the #4 team in the east vs. #6. I paid $68 a ticket on the secondary market a month ago. Today a ticket four rows behind me starts at $110. My nephew is a Texas Rangers season ticket holder. He went to the first game of the World Series and sold the rest of the games and made nearly enough to cover the cost of his season tickets.

Week before last we saw Wicked on Broadway and it was $165 ticket. At intermission, three mixed drinks and one coke was over $50.

Broadway ticket prices are insane but you have productions like Wicked costing millions of dollars to put on and they have to recoup the costs somehow. But them still charging $165 per ticket when they've made back their costs and a whole lot of profit is criminal.

I would never go see a Broadway production. I saw 3 touring companies when I lived in the SF bay area. I can't imagine that the Broadway productions were any better. I saw The Producers in London and I can't imagine the guy playing the Matthew Broderick role being any worse than Broderick himself.

Criminal? When did trying to make a buck become criminal? They are for profit enterprises, their goal is to make as much money as possible. Anyway, they don't set the price of the ticket, the market (end user) does. If the market value is $165, and the production/theatre sell them for $80, some hardworking and smart guy will buy them for $80 and sell them for $165.

Sellers don't control price. Ask any farmer.

As far as George and Steve and their hundred dollar movie tickets, they don't understand economics. The market is a bell curve, the vast majority of the opportunity for money from the movie going public is in the middle 80%. The theaters have set the optimized ticket price at about 10 bucks. If they could make more by raising the price, they would. If they could make more by lowering the price, they would. At the current time they generate the most revenue by charging about 10 bucks.

George and Steve need to stick to making movies.

1. His use of "criminal" was used as part of an expression.

2. What is white collar crime if it isn't somebody trying to make a buck? (other than the stuff of excellent movies)

3. I don't disagree about $100/ticket being a little much (see my earlier posts), and I think that George and Steve have a flair for the dramatic (see Star Wars), but I think that their point is that the supply would decrease faster than demand and when supply decreases in relation to demand, prices go up.

thank you

maybe I should have used the word "wrong" instead
06-25-2013 11:46 AM
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Gray Avenger Offline
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Post: #33
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
(06-24-2013 04:45 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  http://money.msn.com/now/blog--lucas-spi...ie-tickets

World War Z did a semi-test of this before going into general release. For a $50 ticket you got a small popcorn, collectible 3D glasses, a poster, and a download of the movie when it is released to DVD.

At that price they should also throw in a tube of K-Y lubricant.
06-25-2013 12:13 PM
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ecuacc4ever Offline
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Post: #34
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
(06-24-2013 06:05 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  I can't imagine Alabama going independent like Notre Dame. They're a national power but do they have any fans willing to spend money to watch them on TV outside of the southeast?

By admitting Alabama is a "national power", I believe you answered your own question about if they have fans willing to spend money to watch them on TV nationwide -- they have a "Yankees"-like quality that even Notre Dame doesn't have.

IMHO, the following football programs (not schools, football programs) can exist nationally w/o conference affiliation:

1) Notre Dame

2) Texas
3) Oklahoma
Heck, those 2 could play home-and-home during the season and I'm not sure we'd get enough of 'em.

In fact, now that I think about it -- those three schools play school in-season home-and-home games and most of us would watch on TV or in person.

4) Alabama
5) Southern Cal
6) Ohio State

There are probably other schools football programs one might add to the list as well.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2013 01:02 PM by ecuacc4ever.)
06-25-2013 01:02 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #35
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
(06-25-2013 01:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  
(06-24-2013 06:05 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  I can't imagine Alabama going independent like Notre Dame. They're a national power but do they have any fans willing to spend money to watch them on TV outside of the southeast?

By admitting Alabama is a "national power", I believe you answered your own question about if they have fans willing to spend money to watch them on TV nationwide -- they have a "Yankees"-like quality that even Notre Dame doesn't have.

IMHO, the following football programs (not schools, football programs) can exist nationally w/o conference affiliation:

1) Notre Dame

2) Texas
3) Oklahoma
Heck, those 2 could play home-and-home during the season and I'm not sure we'd get enough of 'em.

In fact, now that I think about it -- those three schools play school in-season home-and-home games and most of us would watch on TV or in person.

4) Alabama
5) Southern Cal
6) Ohio State

There are probably other schools football programs one might add to the list as well.

I think only Notre Dame qualifies in terms of being a power school having the ability to be independent.

To me, the ability to be independent is associated with representing something *other* than your home region/state:

Notre Dame = Catholics
BYU = Mormons
Army = Military.

Those aren't regional associations, which give them the ability to be truly national (albeit ND's fan base is at a larger scale compared to the other 2).

In contrast, schools like Texas, Ohio State, Alabama and USC are all still ultimately associated with their home regions. That's where most of their fans live and that's where most of their students come from. They might have casual fan national drawing power because of their history, but their hardcore bases of fans (the types that would pay for games on PPV) are regional.

Once again, I think we're vastly overstating any desire of schools (outside of Notre Dame and Texas) to have an individualistic "eat what you kill" approach to TV revenue. In fact, there really isn't ANY desire in the SEC, Big Ten, ACC and Pac-12. Alabama can't just survive on people living in its home state - they need the people in Florida and Georgia, too. Same thing with Michigan and Ohio State - the football bottom feeders in Illinois, Indiana and Minnesota happen to be located in the only Midwestern states that are experiencing good population growth, whereas the states of Michigan and Ohio have suffered by comparison. There are some major demographic and geographic benefits that the power programs in the Big Ten, SEC, ACC and Pac-12 are getting from the "bottom feeders" in their respective conferences, which is why I don't think what the OP is arguing could happen will occur for sports. Texas is the one power conference member that's the outlier since it has the biggest national name with the largest TV markets and the best football recruiting territory in the Big 12 by a MASSIVE margin, so it's the one power school that really isn't getting much from its fellow conference members (which in turn means that it makes much more sense for them to hold onto their third tier rights and have the power to force it on everyone else in the league). That same analysis doesn't apply to the other power programs, which is why they have ALL affirmatively voted for equal revenue sharing arrangements.
06-25-2013 01:21 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #36
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
(06-24-2013 08:42 PM)orangefan Wrote:  Ticket prices for Live events like sporting events and concerts have skyrocketed in recent years, benefiting from the exclusive nature of the performance and strong fan loyalty. While I'm sure movie ticket prices will continue to creep up, I can't imagine $100 in 2013 dollars. In particular, large screen TVs mean that in a few months you can enjoy the exact same movie on you big screen TV. 60 inch screens have become standard fare, and screens up to 90 inches are available today, with even bigger UHD screens coming soon.

Think about the number of people who take in movie's annually compared with Broadway Shows (I'm defining this as touring musicals not just NYC)

I know broadway NYC itself I one time estimated had a seating capacity of 20,000 across all theaters yet many seats were unfilled on a Saturday afternoon at 65 dollars a ticket (5 years ago). This is in a town of 18 million people and they couldn't fill it up.

Or how much will people pay for a top notch museum? I would say 20 dollars before they start *******. People will pay 25 dollars for IMAX but not for for a regular movie theater.
06-25-2013 02:08 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #37
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
(06-25-2013 12:13 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  
(06-24-2013 04:45 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  http://money.msn.com/now/blog--lucas-spi...ie-tickets

World War Z did a semi-test of this before going into general release. For a $50 ticket you got a small popcorn, collectible 3D glasses, a poster, and a download of the movie when it is released to DVD.

At that price they should also throw in a tube of K-Y lubricant.

Now, I don't see that particular bundling as that horrible and might even be a fairly good deal. A normal movie ticket is over $10, you could easily spend $10 on popcorn, and the DVD download might be worth around $20, so you're recouping a lot of that cost already even before the trinkets and accounting for the fact that you're getting to see the movie prior to the rest of the general public. The idea here is that you're getting extra add-ins beyond the movie ticket and may actually be cheaper as a bundle than buying all of those items separately. (Of course, this is assuming that you're watching this movie alone or going dutch with a friend. Taking a whole family is another matter.)

This is quite different than spending $50 or $100 for *only* a movie ticket, which I don't think would be financially viable for anyone. Remember that movie theaters don't really make much money from the the movie tickets themselves, but rather the concessions. As a result, they care much more about butts in the seats than catering to a smaller high cost crowd. Even in the upscale movie theaters that I've been to (which I actually like since you can order a real dinner and they deliver food to your seat), the price for the ticket for the movie (which is higher than "normal" movie theaters) is almost irrelevant to the theater owner compared to what you order for food and drinks. That's kind of the flip side of what Lucas and Spielberg aren't really looking at - there aren't going to be movie theaters to show their films for $50/$100 per ticket for year-long runs because such theaters need sheer quantities of people coming through to buy concessions to be financially viable. Lucas and Spielberg are only looking at the Hollywood side of things with the ticket gross.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2013 02:36 PM by Frank the Tank.)
06-25-2013 02:33 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #38
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
(06-25-2013 02:33 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(06-25-2013 12:13 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  
(06-24-2013 04:45 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  http://money.msn.com/now/blog--lucas-spi...ie-tickets

World War Z did a semi-test of this before going into general release. For a $50 ticket you got a small popcorn, collectible 3D glasses, a poster, and a download of the movie when it is released to DVD.

At that price they should also throw in a tube of K-Y lubricant.

Now, I don't see that particular bundling as that horrible and might even be a fairly good deal. A normal movie ticket is over $10, you could easily spend $10 on popcorn, and the DVD download might be worth around $20, so you're recouping a lot of that cost already even before the trinkets and accounting for the fact that you're getting to see the movie prior to the rest of the general public. The idea here is that you're getting extra add-ins beyond the movie ticket and may actually be cheaper as a bundle than buying all of those items separately. (Of course, this is assuming that you're watching this movie alone or going dutch with a friend. Taking a whole family is another matter.)

This is quite different than spending $50 or $100 for *only* a movie ticket, which I don't think would be financially viable for anyone. Remember that movie theaters don't really make much money from the the movie tickets themselves, but rather the concessions. As a result, they care much more about butts in the seats than catering to a smaller high cost crowd. Even in the upscale movie theaters that I've been to (which I actually like since you can order a real dinner and they deliver food to your seat), the price for the ticket for the movie (which is higher than "normal" movie theaters) is almost irrelevant to the theater owner compared to what you order for food and drinks. That's kind of the flip side of what Lucas and Spielberg aren't really looking at - there aren't going to be movie theaters to show their films for $50/$100 per ticket for year-long runs because such theaters need sheer quantities of people coming through to buy concessions to be financially viable. Lucas and Spielberg are only looking at the Hollywood side of things with the ticket gross.

Yes and there is always a demand for second run movies.....another theater will undercut prices showing films that have been out for a while for half price.

That is one difference is that in College Football one can argue the game day experience is right up there with he pros and you can justify charging 100 dollars for it at a place like Michigan. Eastern Michigan is only 8 miles away and if they charge 10 dollars for their tickets can't steal business away from UofM because its not considered a comparable product.

Small theater or big theater a movie is pretty much a movie....
06-25-2013 04:51 PM
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Post: #39
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
with piracy, the exact opposite is going to happen with movies. I pay $1.25 to watch movies from the redbox and $8/month for netflix and I will go to pirating if the prices become unreasonable.
06-26-2013 06:09 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #40
RE: If Movies Cost $100 what will happen to sports?
(06-25-2013 04:51 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Yes and there is always a demand for second run movies.....another theater will undercut prices showing films that have been out for a while for half price.

That is one difference is that in College Football one can argue the game day experience is right up there with he pros and you can justify charging 100 dollars for it at a place like Michigan. Eastern Michigan is only 8 miles away and if they charge 10 dollars for their tickets can't steal business away from UofM because its not considered a comparable product.

Small theater or big theater a movie is pretty much a movie....

The "low cost alternative" to Michigan tickets isn't Eastern Michigan tickets. It's watching from the couch on ESPN/BTN.
06-26-2013 06:21 PM
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