Preseason polls are meaningless in terms of how good teams actually are, and more important, how good teams will be come November. However, these polls do show someone else's perception of our program.

For all of us kool-aid drinkers, we perceive ourselves as one of the best programs in FCS. For whoever did this poll, they don't drink the same kool-aid.

What kool-aid are these FBS conferences drinking? I think most people want to assume they are drinking purple kool-aid, but if we aren't even considered a top 25 program this year (at least in someone's eyes), how can you be so certain that FBS conference administration views us as a top tier FCS program and/or candidate to move up?

(06-18-2013 05:31 AM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  I must say, I am very disappointed that JMU Football is not a pre-season top 25 team. For all of everyone's talk of going FBS, it appears we have a lot of work to do in 1AA. It is unimaginable to me that we aren't a top 10 every year; much less top 25. I am very disappointed.

Really? Pre season polls, esp at the I-AA level, are absolutely meaningless. Worthless as tits on a bull. I couldn't care less if JMU was ranked pre season #1, #10, #20, or #50 in some meaningless pre season poll by some people who likely don't know jack diddly squat about I-AA.

(06-18-2013 05:21 AM)HotHamandCheese84 Wrote:  Preseason polls are an absolute waste of time and effort. I'm sure a number of folks will have fun twisting themselves into knots and hand wringing over this non-issue. By the way, Chicken Little is also warming up his posts for our Board. How many "the sky is falling" posts will there be on this topic and many more warmed over topics? Maybe we can have some new threads about how JMU has lost the window to move to FBS, our admin can't walk and chew gum at the same time, and people will double their giving when more strategy is revealed.

Ditto- there's probably close to 10 of these meaningless pre season polls, most of them done by people who know little to nothing about I-AA. They are all over the place. I think there was one someone posted last month that had JMU like around 15th or something.

(06-18-2013 09:35 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 09:22 AM)Dukie95 Wrote:  Not sure what has transpired that would cause people to honestly put CCU, Bethune Cookman, Wagner, Tennessee State, Chattanooga above us...but yeah, motivation.

Probably the fact that they finished last year strong and we finished last year poorly. That's pretty much all the thought that goes into these rankings.

I forget how quickly it happened, but allowing 4 TDs to odu in about a quarter isn't my idea of finishing strong for ccu.

(06-17-2013 10:14 PM)olddawg Wrote:  We are not ranked:
http://www.gobison.com/news/2013/6/15/FB...33123.aspx Looks like Tony Moss does the coverage of FCS for Lindys. Last 3 times we were not ranked going into a season was after the 2003, 2009 & 2010 seasons ( all non playoff years ). At least we won't be reading any press clippings.

Lindy's FCS Preseason Top 25
1. North Dakota State
2. Georgia Southern
3. Montana State
4. South Dakota State
5. Wofford
6. Eastern Washington
7. Central Arkansas
8. Towson
9. Villanova
10. Sam Houston State
11. New Hampshire
12. Appalachian State
13. Northern Iowa
14. Stony Brook
15. Coastal Carolina
16. Northern Arizona
17. Bethune-Cookman
18. Eastern Illinois
19. Youngstown State
20. Chattanooga
21. Richmond
22. Illinois State
23. Montana
24. Wagner
25. Tennessee State

Wrong.
In 2004, a national championship season, JMU was unranked pre season by both major polls.
In 2009 was preseason #6 by both.
In 2010 was preseason #15 by both.

Its pretty common knowledge that JMU entered 2004 unranked. That was mentioned countless times that season. As far as 09' and 10', I had to look that up. Scroll down to page 7:
http://www.jmusports.com/pdf8/975377.pdf...M_ID=14400

(06-18-2013 10:03 AM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  Preseason polls are meaningless in terms of how good teams actually are, and more important, how good teams will be come November. However, these polls do show someone else's perception of our program.

For all of us kool-aid drinkers, we perceive ourselves as one of the best programs in FCS. For whoever did this poll, they don't drink the same kool-aid.

What kool-aid are these FBS conferences drinking? I think most people want to assume they are drinking purple kool-aid, but if we aren't even considered a top 25 program this year (at least in someone's eyes), how can you be so certain that FBS conference administration views us as a top tier FCS program and/or candidate to move up?

Georgia State got an invite while being one of the worst FCS teams to exist, and UNC-Charlotte got an invite despite never playing a down.

Actual success means very little to the powers that be when it comes to offering bids to FCS schools to FBS. I mean it was like pulling teeth for Appy and real GSU to even get into the Sun Belt.

And Athlon sports has us at 17.

http://www.athlonsports.com/college-foot...redictions

(06-18-2013 10:40 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  And Athlon sports has us at 17.

http://www.athlonsports.com/college-foot...redictions

What is with these polls ignoring odu but not app state and ga southern? Does the almost one year announcement difference really lead people to believe that odu is somehow already fbs?

Not surprised, as I currently see us as about a 7 win team. That could change depending on Birdsong's development, but if my arm was twisted right now, I foresee a very hot chair with Mickey sitting on it come December.

That said, it is true that most preseason polls in I-AA are skewed at best, and outright incorrect at worst.

(06-18-2013 10:49 AM)Potomac Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 10:40 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  And Athlon sports has us at 17.

http://www.athlonsports.com/college-foot...redictions

What is with these polls ignoring odu but not app state and ga southern? Does the almost one year announcement difference really lead people to believe that odu is somehow already fbs?

Are you sure ODU is eligible for the FCS playoffs next year?

(06-18-2013 10:52 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 10:49 AM)Potomac Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 10:40 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  And Athlon sports has us at 17.

http://www.athlonsports.com/college-foot...redictions

What is with these polls ignoring odu but not app state and ga southern? Does the almost one year announcement difference really lead people to believe that odu is somehow already fbs?

Are you sure ODU is eligible for the FCS playoffs next year?

No they're not. Neither is app state and real GSU.

I don't really care about the polls as far as gauging team strength. I look at them for two other reasons:

1) As Newbill mentioned, "how do others view our program?". I am as guilty as anyone in probably overestimating JMU's relative strength in the FCS world. It's good to see what outsiders think. And though Lindys is only a pre-season poll and not one used during the regular season, it is authored by Tony Moss. I think even the blowhards here on the boards would agree he has a pretty good knowledge base on FCS football.

2) In terms of the pre-season polls that actually continue on through the regular season ( TSN and the Coaches Poll), I only care about our ranking in terms of potential post season seeding. Since we are fortunate enough to have a playoff in FCS, the worthy teams usually do get in playoffs to compete for a National Championship. I never have to worry about a decent JMU team getting in ( no matter where we start in the polls). Where the polls do come into play is top level seeding. Simply put, a 9-2 or 10-1 team that starts out # 1 is going to trump a team w/ the same record that starts out unranked in terms of post season seeding.

(06-18-2013 10:55 AM)olddawg Wrote:  I don't really care about the polls as far as gauging team strength. I look at them for two other reasons:

1) As Newbill mentioned, "how do others view our program?". I am as guilty as anyone in probably overestimating JMU's relative strength in the FCS world. It's good to see what outsiders think. And though Lindys is only a pre-season poll and not one used during the regular season, it is authored by Tony Moss. I think even the blowhards here on the boards would agree he has a pretty good knowledge base on FCS football.

2) In terms of the pre-season polls that actually continue on through the regular season ( TSN and the Coaches Poll), I only care about our ranking in terms of potential post season seeding. Since we are fortunate enough to have a playoff in FCS, the worthy teams usually do get in playoffs to compete for a National Championship. I never have to worry about a decent JMU team getting in ( no matter where we start in the polls). Where the polls do come into play is top level seeding. Simply put, a 9-2 or 10-1 team that starts out # 1 is going to trump a team w/ the same record that starts out unranked in terms of post season seeding.

We'll still run up the middle, go 7-4, get cute with our bid and still travel first round. It's what we do.

(06-18-2013 10:25 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 10:14 PM)olddawg Wrote:  We are not ranked:
http://www.gobison.com/news/2013/6/15/FB...33123.aspx Looks like Tony Moss does the coverage of FCS for Lindys. Last 3 times we were not ranked going into a season was after the 2003, 2009 & 2010 seasons ( all non playoff years ). At least we won't be reading any press clippings.

Lindy's FCS Preseason Top 25
1. North Dakota State
2. Georgia Southern
3. Montana State
4. South Dakota State
5. Wofford
6. Eastern Washington
7. Central Arkansas
8. Towson
9. Villanova
10. Sam Houston State
11. New Hampshire
12. Appalachian State
13. Northern Iowa
14. Stony Brook
15. Coastal Carolina
16. Northern Arizona
17. Bethune-Cookman
18. Eastern Illinois
19. Youngstown State
20. Chattanooga
21. Richmond
22. Illinois State
23. Montana
24. Wagner
25. Tennessee State

Wrong.
In 2004, a national championship season, JMU was unranked pre season by both major polls.
In 2009 was preseason #6 by both.
In 2010 was preseason #15 by both.

Its pretty common knowledge that JMU entered 2004 unranked. That was mentioned countless times that season. As far as 09' and 10', I had to look that up. Scroll down to page 7:
http://www.jmusports.com/pdf8/975377.pdf...M_ID=14400

Good catch BDK. I was using numbers from an old post with a different tangent. 2004, 2010 and 2011 were the years we were not ranked in the Top 10 going into the season by one of the major polls. Pretty impressive run from 2005-2009 of entering the season w/ a Top 10 ranking. I looked up that old post on CAAZone- we have been ranked in the Top 10 for 65 weeks out of 117 weeks since the beginning of 2004.

(06-18-2013 10:55 AM)olddawg Wrote:  I don't really care about the polls as far as gauging team strength. I look at them for two other reasons:

1) As Newbill mentioned, "how do others view our program?". I am as guilty as anyone in probably overestimating JMU's relative strength in the FCS world. It's good to see what outsiders think. And though Lindys is only a pre-season poll and not one used during the regular season, it is authored by Tony Moss. I think even the blowhards here on the boards would agree he has a pretty good knowledge base on FCS football.

2) In terms of the pre-season polls that actually continue on through the regular season ( TSN and the Coaches Poll), I only care about our ranking in terms of potential post season seeding. Since we are fortunate enough to have a playoff in FCS, the worthy teams usually do get in playoffs to compete for a National Championship. I never have to worry about a decent JMU team getting in ( no matter where we start in the polls). Where the polls do come into play is top level seeding. Simply put, a 9-2 or 10-1 team that starts out # 1 is going to trump a team w/ the same record that starts out unranked in terms of post season seeding.

They don't set seeds based on soley on polls.

(06-18-2013 11:36 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 10:55 AM)olddawg Wrote:  I don't really care about the polls as far as gauging team strength. I look at them for two other reasons:

1) As Newbill mentioned, "how do others view our program?". I am as guilty as anyone in probably overestimating JMU's relative strength in the FCS world. It's good to see what outsiders think. And though Lindys is only a pre-season poll and not one used during the regular season, it is authored by Tony Moss. I think even the blowhards here on the boards would agree he has a pretty good knowledge base on FCS football.

2) In terms of the pre-season polls that actually continue on through the regular season ( TSN and the Coaches Poll), I only care about our ranking in terms of potential post season seeding. Since we are fortunate enough to have a playoff in FCS, the worthy teams usually do get in playoffs to compete for a National Championship. I never have to worry about a decent JMU team getting in ( no matter where we start in the polls). Where the polls do come into play is top level seeding. Simply put, a 9-2 or 10-1 team that starts out # 1 is going to trump a team w/ the same record that starts out unranked in terms of post season seeding.

They don't set seeds based on soley on polls.

And they shouldn't. It's a lazy way to award the seeds. We all know each year there are teams that don't pass the "eye test". But way too many times to be coincidence, the top 4 seeds have come from the top 4 in the polls. Not always in the exact order but from the group nonetheless.

Going back to a poignant year in JMU football history- 2006. We end the regular season ranked 6th. NDSU was above us at 4 but ineligible due to transition. So what happens? All four eligible teams above us got seeds and we were shipped off to Youngstown.

Number of seeds ( 1-4 ) awarded out of the Top 4 in the final regular season poll each year:

2006: 4 out of 4
2007: 4 out of 4
2008: 3 out of 4
2009: 4 out of 4
2010: 2 out of 4
2011: 3 out of 4
2012: 4 out of 4

(06-18-2013 01:14 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 11:36 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 10:55 AM)olddawg Wrote:  I don't really care about the polls as far as gauging team strength. I look at them for two other reasons:

1) As Newbill mentioned, "how do others view our program?". I am as guilty as anyone in probably overestimating JMU's relative strength in the FCS world. It's good to see what outsiders think. And though Lindys is only a pre-season poll and not one used during the regular season, it is authored by Tony Moss. I think even the blowhards here on the boards would agree he has a pretty good knowledge base on FCS football.

2) In terms of the pre-season polls that actually continue on through the regular season ( TSN and the Coaches Poll), I only care about our ranking in terms of potential post season seeding. Since we are fortunate enough to have a playoff in FCS, the worthy teams usually do get in playoffs to compete for a National Championship. I never have to worry about a decent JMU team getting in ( no matter where we start in the polls). Where the polls do come into play is top level seeding. Simply put, a 9-2 or 10-1 team that starts out # 1 is going to trump a team w/ the same record that starts out unranked in terms of post season seeding.

They don't set seeds based on soley on polls.

And they shouldn't. It's a lazy way to award the seeds. We all know each year there are teams that don't pass the "eye test". But way too many times to be coincidence, the top 4 seeds have come from the top 4 in the polls. Not always in the exact order but from the group nonetheless.

Going back to a poignant year in JMU football history- 2006. We end the regular season ranked 6th. NDSU was above us at 4 but ineligible due to transition. So what happens? All four eligible teams above us got seeds and we were shipped off to Youngstown.

Number of seeds ( 1-4 ) awarded out of the Top 4 in the final regular season poll each year:

2006: 4 out of 4
2007: 4 out of 4
2008: 3 out of 4
2009: 4 out of 4
2010: 2 out of 4
2011: 3 out of 4
2012: 4 out of 4

As BO would say..."polls do matter. I'm still popular despite everything!"

Even at the FBS level, you could look back at any preseason poll in any year and shake your head. It's no indication to me on how good JMU will be. As I said before, the fact is we have a big unknown at QB. That's probably the reason we'd be left out of polls. I hope Birdsong is a beast but I don't think anyone has really seen enough to have a strong opinion.

(06-18-2013 01:36 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  Even at the FBS level, you could look back at any preseason poll in any year and shake your head. It's no indication to me on how good JMU will be. As I said before, the fact is we have a big unknown at QB. That's probably the reason we'd be left out of polls. I hope Birdsong is a beast but I don't think anyone has really seen enough to have a strong opinion.

DoubleD, I totally hear you... yet it clearly states we have much work to do to get respect as a power. Its not about how good or bad we are or will be, but about how we are viewed. And yes, I believe this is important, if for no other reason, recruits want to know they are going to a good team. They want to be proud when they tell their friends they have an offer from JMU and feel that its a better deal than other offers in hand from (as 95 stated) CCU, Bethune Cookman, Wagner, Tennessee State, and Chattanooga. Is that who you want our program associated with, or is it NDSU, Villanova, SHSU, Montana St., and Montana (purposefully left out those moving to FBS)?

(06-18-2013 03:19 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(06-18-2013 01:36 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  Even at the FBS level, you could look back at any preseason poll in any year and shake your head. It's no indication to me on how good JMU will be. As I said before, the fact is we have a big unknown at QB. That's probably the reason we'd be left out of polls. I hope Birdsong is a beast but I don't think anyone has really seen enough to have a strong opinion.

DoubleD, I totally hear you... yet it clearly states we have much work to do to get respect as a power. Its not about how good or bad we are or will be, but about how we are viewed. And yes, I believe this is important, if for no other reason, recruits want to know they are going to a good team. They want to be proud when they tell their friends they have an offer from JMU and feel that its a better deal than other offers in hand from (as 95 stated) CCU, Bethune Cookman, Wagner, Tennessee State, and Chattanooga. Is that who you want our program associated with, or is it NDSU, Villanova, SHSU, Montana St., and Montana (purposefully left out those moving to FBS)?

Yeah, I hear you on that. Sometimes I look at the guys we get and the other schools that offered and I cringe, mostly with basketball actually. However, this is the class that was rated #1 in the nation (after a year of redshirting) getting its first chance to play. So, somebody must be throwing darts at a wall. I hear everything you're saying, but what I've found in FCS is that you can shoot from unranked to the top 5 with 2 or 3 wins. I really just think that there are a lot of unknowns this year. Our QB hasn't played much. We have a new OC/system. We lost some guys in the secondary. It's not that we're not going to be good, it's just the unknowns.

I really think we have some of the best players in the country at LB. We have Robertson and Till. We have Mosley and Stanton. We have Marlowe. I believe our OL will be better than last year even w/o Watford. We have Scott. I assume we'll have Brown back at WR and we have a lot of WRs who are good after the catch (Smith, Harvey, Hunter, and Ravenal (sp?) might play as a freshman). I think we're going to have a pretty good team. It's hard to make a living being an FCS football analyst. As far as perception, we just need to put wins on the board and that will take care of itself. I mean, I don't think we had a great 2011 team but they gave NDSU (the eventual NC winner) the best game they got and that was on the road. It was the only really competitive playoff game they had. We were up 21-10 on ODU last year and blew that game in the second half. We're not far off.