(06-17-2013 08:20 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-15-2013 03:05 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I can see this happening. The younger generations are getting softer and softer. If today's 18-24 year olds would have had to fight WWII, we would be speaking German or Japanese. Young men today are wimps. It is a result of the emasculation of American Male. If you are an American Male under the age of 40, chances are you have been pussified and you don't even know it. No discipline anymore, no respect for authority. When Fathers stopped putting foot to a$$, rather when Mothers insisted Fathers stopped putting foot to a$$, kids got fat and lazy.

We have raised a Nation of fat, lazy, undisciplined free loaders. I can see football ending because of it.
CJ

Every single generation since the dawn of civilization has said the exact same thing. Consider that 30% of 18-year-old American males were rejected from the army during World War Two for a lack of physical fitness, and they were pretty much taking everyone. I highly recommend reading "The Soft American," an SI article from 1960 written by President Kennedy.


I'm 30 and in my experience, my generation is every bit as hardworking as the older ones. Baby boomers accuse us of having a "lack of commitment to our job," but this is a misperception: The job market turns over faster now, as skills become more obsolete, and companies no longer have a commitment to workers. Why should workers commit to a company that can't commit to them? Why should we invest 100% of our effort in acquiring arcane skills that will be obsolete in 5-10 years?

Also, consider that we are expected to do WAY more of our own work than past generations. There are no secretaries, and personal items like insurance and investing for retirement are way more complicated than they used to be. We have to invest more in a wider and more durable skillset than previous generations, and we have to be committed to ourselves to avoid being screwed over because there is no "company man" looking out for us.

This generation also has many strengths over previous generations:
1) working with people of a different gender, race, or religion isn't even remotely an issue.
2) We are less materialistic than previous generations. This is why you see countless articles about younger people not buying luxury cars and dropping cable.
3) There is more of a desire to contribute to the public good rather than the private good. Although this may be a "stage of life" thing, my parents tell me that hippies and their allies were only 10-20% of their generation, and I see this trait in 70-80% of gen Y and millenials.
4) We are more flexible in our careers. Although this is out of necessity, as noted above, so this really shouldn't count as a "strength."

(06-15-2013 03:55 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-15-2013 03:40 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  Completely agree. Although I'm not sure it's any worse than people who use the TV as a babysitter. At least on a computer they're exercising hand eye coordination and problelm solving skills. The lack of social interaction, due to video gaming, is the true hole in these kids personalities, IMO.

Isn't that the truth. I once caught my teenage son texting with his friend that was sitting in the same room. He explained that it was easier then talking. I too am concerned about the younger generations intra-personal skills.
CJ

This is a legit concern. I think the lowering of communication skills is also part of what is polarizing the political spectrum: lower levels of reading comprehension are making people less able to see the other point of view.

I'm 30, as well, Bearcat, and you spelled it out perfectly. By the way for all you Boomers, there are a lot of good articles out now about "social media fatigue". Many, many people in our generation are giving up or cutting way back on all of it and getting back to hanging out face to face. The newness is gone. I live in Nashville, and music festivals, farmer's markets, county fairs... all of them are packed more than ever with all ages. Old quips tend to stay applicable, and "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree" is still true. Show me a lazy teen, I'll show you a lazy parent, either in practice or in discipline. Same goes for the positive spin. Concerning kids who are constantly texting in even the most absurd circumstances... give them a few years to get this "freedom" out of their system. They are like teens when they first get their licenses. They drive for the heck of driving. If there was ever a generation that could understand driving just because you could, it has to be the Baby Boomers. If old movies are generally correct, you guys did circles around town just for the heck of it! If you get a handful of antisocial types who are still acting like that in their 20's, chalk them up to that minority who never grow up. I have seen "children" of every age and in every generation.

(06-15-2013 03:05 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I can see this happening. The younger generations are getting softer and softer. If today's 18-24 year olds would have had to fight WWII, we would be speaking German or Japanese. Young men today are wimps. It is a result of the emasculation of American Male. If you are an American Male under the age of 40, chances are you have been pussified and you don't even know it. No discipline anymore, no respect for authority. When Fathers stopped putting foot to a$$, rather when Mothers insisted Fathers stopped putting foot to a$$, kids got fat and lazy.

We have raised a Nation of fat, lazy, undisciplined free loaders. I can see football ending because of it. I give Howard Schnellenberger credit. He saw it coming nearly 30 years ago. At a football coaches clinic in July 1986, Coach Schnellenberger was asked what he thought of soccer. Coach said "Soccer is a communist plot to turn all American males into homosexuals". Those of us in attendance waited for him to laugh, he didn't.
CJ

lol....wut?

(06-17-2013 07:18 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 10:48 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  While this may be a worthy debate, none of the opinions on this board will matter. Football will remain the #1 sport in America for at least the duration of our lifetimes. In fact, within the next 5 years the Jacksonville Jaguars will be the London Jaguars. Also, I'm not sure what Lem Barney's track record with prognostication is, but some posters on here have apparently appointed him Nostradamus.

And I hate to dissapoint all of the roundball fans, but if football ever does become less popular, it will likely be replaced with something revolting like soccer.

I don't know how old you are, but rarely has a sport stayed on top for more than a few decades. Horse racing, boxing, baseball, and football have all had their time at the top, and bowling, hockey, tennis, and auto racing have had dominance in some regions of the country in the past. In 1900, the 3rd most popular sport in England was cockfighting.

Personally I think that the sleeping giant of the next few decades is volleyball. It's American-made yet is popular overseas (particularly Brazil, where it rivals soccer). The infrastructure is in place in America already, and it's one of the few sports where the women's game is actually more entertaining to watch than the men's game (and not just because they look good; the women have longer volleys while the men have too many aces).

And as far as participation, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, the most popular real sport to play at any age level is basketball. Even at the high school level.

This guy has to be joking!

And on a serious note. Football is a whole lot different from soccer, baseball, etc. Football unlike more sports can evolve and change to fit target audiences. You have fast teams, slow teams, colorful teams, tradition teams, passing teams, running teams, defensive teams, list goes on. Baseball is fun to watch but there is no evolution a Yankee game from the 60's is similar to what it is today.

And football is just plain different in terms of culture. You don't even have to go inside of a football game to have the time of your life. I've had more fun tailgating at Alabama games than I had going into them and the same with Troy.

(06-17-2013 10:51 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 07:18 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 10:48 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  While this may be a worthy debate, none of the opinions on this board will matter. Football will remain the #1 sport in America for at least the duration of our lifetimes. In fact, within the next 5 years the Jacksonville Jaguars will be the London Jaguars. Also, I'm not sure what Lem Barney's track record with prognostication is, but some posters on here have apparently appointed him Nostradamus.

And I hate to dissapoint all of the roundball fans, but if football ever does become less popular, it will likely be replaced with something revolting like soccer.

I don't know how old you are, but rarely has a sport stayed on top for more than a few decades. Horse racing, boxing, baseball, and football have all had their time at the top, and bowling, hockey, tennis, and auto racing have had dominance in some regions of the country in the past. In 1900, the 3rd most popular sport in England was cockfighting.

Personally I think that the sleeping giant of the next few decades is volleyball. It's American-made yet is popular overseas (particularly Brazil, where it rivals soccer). The infrastructure is in place in America already, and it's one of the few sports where the women's game is actually more entertaining to watch than the men's game (and not just because they look good; the women have longer volleys while the men have too many aces).

And as far as participation, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, the most popular real sport to play at any age level is basketball. Even at the high school level.

This guy has to be joking!

And on a serious note. Football is a whole lot different from soccer, baseball, etc. Football unlike more sports can evolve and change to fit target audiences. You have fast teams, slow teams, colorful teams, tradition teams, passing teams, running teams, defensive teams, list goes on. Baseball is fun to watch but there is no evolution a Yankee game from the 60's is similar to what it is today.

And football is just plain different in terms of culture. You don't even have to go inside of a football game to have the time of your life. I've had more fun tailgating at Alabama games than I had going into them and the same with Troy.

I think you may be right about the culture part surrounding football and why it will survive. Many people do not think in these terms, but I would contest that interior linemen is the only position where the best available athletes decide to play football instead of something else, and that is just because shorter, stockier guys aren't useful in the NBA or MLB sans Prince Fielder. Just take a look at a typical NBA roster. Is there any position on defense other than maybe nose tackle where an NBA guy is not better suited? Same for offense. We don't see basketball players for what they really are because they are on court with uber athletes. Kevin Love, who many consider to be a good but not great basketball athlete, is a terrific rebounder, has tremendous touch and awesome hands. He is 6'-10", 260 lbs. Put him on any roster at Tight End, and he destroys everybody. And, remember, this is a "good" NBA athlete, not a great one. Calvin Johnson is incredible, and I do not mean to discount him, but he is 6'-5", 236 lbs. and looks like a freak out there. You know who is just an inch shorter and 10 lbs. lighter? Dwayne Wade... a shooting guard.

I say all that to say that it's fine if the best athletes don't play football... that is already the case.

(06-17-2013 11:09 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 10:51 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 07:18 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 10:48 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  While this may be a worthy debate, none of the opinions on this board will matter. Football will remain the #1 sport in America for at least the duration of our lifetimes. In fact, within the next 5 years the Jacksonville Jaguars will be the London Jaguars. Also, I'm not sure what Lem Barney's track record with prognostication is, but some posters on here have apparently appointed him Nostradamus.

And I hate to dissapoint all of the roundball fans, but if football ever does become less popular, it will likely be replaced with something revolting like soccer.

I don't know how old you are, but rarely has a sport stayed on top for more than a few decades. Horse racing, boxing, baseball, and football have all had their time at the top, and bowling, hockey, tennis, and auto racing have had dominance in some regions of the country in the past. In 1900, the 3rd most popular sport in England was cockfighting.

Personally I think that the sleeping giant of the next few decades is volleyball. It's American-made yet is popular overseas (particularly Brazil, where it rivals soccer). The infrastructure is in place in America already, and it's one of the few sports where the women's game is actually more entertaining to watch than the men's game (and not just because they look good; the women have longer volleys while the men have too many aces).

And as far as participation, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, the most popular real sport to play at any age level is basketball. Even at the high school level.

This guy has to be joking!

And on a serious note. Football is a whole lot different from soccer, baseball, etc. Football unlike more sports can evolve and change to fit target audiences. You have fast teams, slow teams, colorful teams, tradition teams, passing teams, running teams, defensive teams, list goes on. Baseball is fun to watch but there is no evolution a Yankee game from the 60's is similar to what it is today.

And football is just plain different in terms of culture. You don't even have to go inside of a football game to have the time of your life. I've had more fun tailgating at Alabama games than I had going into them and the same with Troy.

I think you may be right about the culture part surrounding football and why it will survive. Many people do not think in these terms, but I would contest that interior linemen is the only position where the best available athletes decide to play football instead of something else, and that is just because shorter, stockier guys aren't useful in the NBA or MLB sans Prince Fielder. Just take a look at a typical NBA roster. Is there any position on defense other than maybe nose tackle where an NBA guy is not better suited? Same for offense. We don't see basketball players for what they really are because they are on court with uber athletes. Kevin Love, who many consider to be a good but not great basketball athlete, is a terrific rebounder, has tremendous touch and awesome hands. He is 6'-10", 260 lbs. Put him on any roster at Tight End, and he destroys everybody. And, remember, this is a "good" NBA athlete, not a great one. Calvin Johnson is incredible, and I do not mean to discount him, but he is 6'-5", 236 lbs. and looks like a freak out there. You know who is just an inch shorter and 10 lbs. lighter? Dwayne Wade... a shooting guard.

I say all that to say that it's fine if the best athletes don't play football... that is already the case.

Exactly and I say this with an unbiased opinion. I grew up in California going to Angels games as a kid. Baseball can be a chore to watch sometimes and there is no real strategy involved. It's either an on or off day for players. Sure you can change pitchers but there's no blitz, there's no shotgun passes, there's no dual QB, there's no 100,000 screaming fans, there's no superbowl with celebrity icons at the halftime show. Even in it's prime it was never really okay to see someone in full body paint screaming something like ROLL MOTHER ........Tide! In the 50's and even today people would look at that person and shake their head. Baseball is an American classic but it's still in the same category as sports like basketball. The only way for you to enjoy it is if your team is winning or you dislike one of the teams playing.

Comparing football to past sports is like comparing modern computers to old computers that filled up a whole room just to do simple math calculations.

(06-15-2013 03:05 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I can see this happening. The younger generations are getting softer and softer. If today's 18-24 year olds would have had to fight WWII, we would be speaking German or Japanese. Young men today are wimps. It is a result of the emasculation of American Male. If you are an American Male under the age of 40, chances are you have been pussified and you don't even know it. No discipline anymore, no respect for authority. When Fathers stopped putting foot to a$$, rather when Mothers insisted Fathers stopped putting foot to a$$, kids got fat and lazy.

We have raised a Nation of fat, lazy, undisciplined free loaders. I can see football ending because of it. I give Howard Schnellenberger credit. He saw it coming nearly 30 years ago. At a football coaches clinic in July 1986, Coach Schnellenberger was asked what he thought of soccer. Coach said "Soccer is a communist plot to turn all American males into homosexuals". Those of us in attendance waited for him to laugh, he didn't.
CJ

I agree with every word of this except a better term would be "metrosexuals".

(06-20-2013 12:54 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(06-15-2013 03:05 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I can see this happening. The younger generations are getting softer and softer. If today's 18-24 year olds would have had to fight WWII, we would be speaking German or Japanese. Young men today are wimps. It is a result of the emasculation of American Male. If you are an American Male under the age of 40, chances are you have been pussified and you don't even know it. No discipline anymore, no respect for authority. When Fathers stopped putting foot to a$$, rather when Mothers insisted Fathers stopped putting foot to a$$, kids got fat and lazy.

We have raised a Nation of fat, lazy, undisciplined free loaders. I can see football ending because of it. I give Howard Schnellenberger credit. He saw it coming nearly 30 years ago. At a football coaches clinic in July 1986, Coach Schnellenberger was asked what he thought of soccer. Coach said "Soccer is a communist plot to turn all American males into homosexuals". Those of us in attendance waited for him to laugh, he didn't.
CJ

I agree with every word of this except a better term would be "metrosexuals".

Wow, some of you guys are just out of touch.

(06-18-2013 07:26 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 11:09 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 10:51 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 07:18 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 10:48 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  While this may be a worthy debate, none of the opinions on this board will matter. Football will remain the #1 sport in America for at least the duration of our lifetimes. In fact, within the next 5 years the Jacksonville Jaguars will be the London Jaguars. Also, I'm not sure what Lem Barney's track record with prognostication is, but some posters on here have apparently appointed him Nostradamus.

And I hate to dissapoint all of the roundball fans, but if football ever does become less popular, it will likely be replaced with something revolting like soccer.

I don't know how old you are, but rarely has a sport stayed on top for more than a few decades. Horse racing, boxing, baseball, and football have all had their time at the top, and bowling, hockey, tennis, and auto racing have had dominance in some regions of the country in the past. In 1900, the 3rd most popular sport in England was cockfighting.

Personally I think that the sleeping giant of the next few decades is volleyball. It's American-made yet is popular overseas (particularly Brazil, where it rivals soccer). The infrastructure is in place in America already, and it's one of the few sports where the women's game is actually more entertaining to watch than the men's game (and not just because they look good; the women have longer volleys while the men have too many aces).

And as far as participation, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, the most popular real sport to play at any age level is basketball. Even at the high school level.

This guy has to be joking!

And on a serious note. Football is a whole lot different from soccer, baseball, etc. Football unlike more sports can evolve and change to fit target audiences. You have fast teams, slow teams, colorful teams, tradition teams, passing teams, running teams, defensive teams, list goes on. Baseball is fun to watch but there is no evolution a Yankee game from the 60's is similar to what it is today.

And football is just plain different in terms of culture. You don't even have to go inside of a football game to have the time of your life. I've had more fun tailgating at Alabama games than I had going into them and the same with Troy.

I think you may be right about the culture part surrounding football and why it will survive. Many people do not think in these terms, but I would contest that interior linemen is the only position where the best available athletes decide to play football instead of something else, and that is just because shorter, stockier guys aren't useful in the NBA or MLB sans Prince Fielder. Just take a look at a typical NBA roster. Is there any position on defense other than maybe nose tackle where an NBA guy is not better suited? Same for offense. We don't see basketball players for what they really are because they are on court with uber athletes. Kevin Love, who many consider to be a good but not great basketball athlete, is a terrific rebounder, has tremendous touch and awesome hands. He is 6'-10", 260 lbs. Put him on any roster at Tight End, and he destroys everybody. And, remember, this is a "good" NBA athlete, not a great one. Calvin Johnson is incredible, and I do not mean to discount him, but he is 6'-5", 236 lbs. and looks like a freak out there. You know who is just an inch shorter and 10 lbs. lighter? Dwayne Wade... a shooting guard.

I say all that to say that it's fine if the best athletes don't play football... that is already the case.

Exactly and I say this with an unbiased opinion. I grew up in California going to Angels games as a kid. Baseball can be a chore to watch sometimes and there is no real strategy involved. It's either an on or off day for players. Sure you can change pitchers but there's no blitz, there's no shotgun passes, there's no dual QB, there's no 100,000 screaming fans, there's no superbowl with celebrity icons at the halftime show. Even in it's prime it was never really okay to see someone in full body paint screaming something like ROLL MOTHER ........Tide! In the 50's and even today people would look at that person and shake their head. Baseball is an American classic but it's still in the same category as sports like basketball. The only way for you to enjoy it is if your team is winning or you dislike one of the teams playing.

Comparing football to past sports is like comparing modern computers to old computers that filled up a whole room just to do simple math calculations.

No strategy involved in baseball? Come on now. It's like a chess match.

Soccer is on the brink of becoming huge in this country, as it is all over the world. If team USA makes a good run in the world cup, lookout. All soccer needs is investors. If someone can ever bring truly high level soccer to this country, like what happened in the 70's, it will become more popular than football IMO. Just look at the history of the New York Cosmos. They packed Giants stadium consistently. MLS attendance is already higher per game than the NBA and MLB. Soccer is the world's sport, and really has been forever. It is a universal language. Wars are stopped. It's simple, yet so complex. There are so many strategies, just like you all are talking with football. The athleticism required for soccer is unreal as well. Sometimes you run 5 miles in a game. If there ever comes a time when MLS is competitive with the Premier League, La Liga, or any of the European giants, soccer will dominate the sporting landscape of this country.

(06-20-2013 01:39 PM)Whiteboard3 Wrote:  Soccer is on the brink of becoming huge in this country, as it is all over the world. If team USA makes a good run in the world cup, lookout. All soccer needs is investors. If someone can ever bring truly high level soccer to this country, like what happened in the 70's, it will become more popular than football IMO. Just look at the history of the New York Cosmos. They packed Giants stadium consistently. MLS attendance is already higher per game than the NBA and MLB. Soccer is the world's sport, and really has been forever. It is a universal language. Wars are stopped. It's simple, yet so complex. There are so many strategies, just like you all are talking with football. The athleticism required for soccer is unreal as well. Sometimes you run 5 miles in a game. If there ever comes a time when MLS is competitive with the Premier League, La Liga, or any of the European giants, soccer will dominate the sporting landscape of this country.

I have been hearing about the coming soccer boom in the USA since the 70's. I think Americans like amateur soccer much more than the pro stuff.

(06-20-2013 01:44 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  I have been hearing about the coming soccer boom in the USA since the 70's.

It ain't going away either.

I'm younger (well kind of, late 20s now), but agree with the turn of the country, but also agree it's not limited by generations so much. It's manifest differently in different generations, but it cuts across a lot more than initially looking at it suggest. I see a) a turn away from self-reliance and b) too much ideology without looking at how things actually work. I had more written out, but realized this probably isn't the board for that so cut it out. Suffice to say, both the right and left spend a lot of time arguing about what are really side issues, while both sides and society at large barely look at many of the bigger issues effecting us.

Back to football, nothing last forever. It's not going to die in our lifetimes, but at some point in the future, people will look back and say, what happened to the sport? Why did it decline? It might be because sports in general decline. It might be because of huge demographic (and corresponding culture) changes we'll get due to immigration policies/birth rates/assimilation issues or simply because American culture changes more with computers or something else. It might be because another sport rises that fits the times better. It might still be the unquestioned top in 50 years too, but given how much change we see century to century, I bet it's not in 100.

(06-20-2013 01:45 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(06-20-2013 01:44 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  I have been hearing about the coming soccer boom in the USA since the 70's.

It ain't going away either.

I actually thought the indoor soccer would take off. Much more exciting, but...

(06-20-2013 01:45 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(06-20-2013 01:44 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  I have been hearing about the coming soccer boom in the USA since the 70's.

It ain't going away either.

Agreed. It will get bigger still too, but the MLS will probably never be the top followed league in this country and getting even to the top 3 is a long ways away (partly because MLS popularity will only be a fraction of soccer popularity while the other sports don't have to worry about international competition).

(06-20-2013 01:39 PM)Whiteboard3 Wrote:  Soccer is on the brink of becoming huge in this country, as it is all over the world. If team USA makes a good run in the world cup, lookout. All soccer needs is investors. If someone can ever bring truly high level soccer to this country, like what happened in the 70's, it will become more popular than football IMO. Just look at the history of the New York Cosmos. They packed Giants stadium consistently. MLS attendance is already higher per game than the NBA and MLB. Soccer is the world's sport, and really has been forever. It is a universal language. Wars are stopped. It's simple, yet so complex. There are so many strategies, just like you all are talking with football. The athleticism required for soccer is unreal as well. Sometimes you run 5 miles in a game. If there ever comes a time when MLS is competitive with the Premier League, La Liga, or any of the European giants, soccer will dominate the sporting landscape of this country.

Slow down, turbo. As much as I wish for soccer to be amongst the top dogs:

1. The increased MLS attendance is nice. But have you seen the tv ratings?

2. Every ACC foe not named Florida State, Miami or Georgia Tech sponsors men's soccer. Yes that includes Virginia Tech and Clemson. It's largely why I liked Louisville going to the ACC instead of the Big XII. Especially since they have put a strong emphasis on it as of late. Nine B1G schools - among them Ohio State, Michigan, Maryland, Indiana and Wisconsin - are included with other major universities who also have men's teams.

HOWEVER: Texas, Nebraska, USC and Big XII or SEC members not named West Virginia, South Carolina or Kentucky do not. Neither does Boise. This would have to change in order for it to become a top 3 sport.