(06-12-2013 12:03 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 10:17 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 08:24 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 08:17 AM)WNCOrange Wrote:  I find this arguing over who is #4 hilarious because the reality is that it is the power 2 (SEC and the B10) and the little 3. At this point the ACC, B12 and PAC are all interchangeable. Arguing about who is #4 is ridiculous.

I definitely agree with this.

I also agree that the Big 12 should have added Louisville and Cincinnati along with West Virginia. I think as time goes along that mistake will become more and more glaring. By adding all three of those schools, the Big 12 could have triangulated the Ohio Valley and created a real synergy between those schools and could have effectively expanded their footprint in a meaningful way. Instead, they opted to go with the shortsighted band-aid approach and that will ultimately hurt everyone.

Dumb.

Similarly, I think the Big Ten's selection of Rutgers and Maryland over Florida State and Georgia Tech will also prove a significant mistake in the long run.

I disagree with your points, Doc. But what else is new?

IMO the B12 is the perfect size. Having only 10 members allows for round robin play in every sport every year, which is the perfect setup for any conference. The other conferences may end up with more inventory for their networks, but it doesn't make them better. More teams allows for unequal scheduling, where some teams miss power teams in their conference, while others get the more difficult path to their conference championship game. We've seen several instances of that in the SEC already, and every time it's had a negative effect on the team facing the tougher schedule in the conference race. Over time that will only lead to some unnecessary friction...

I also think adding Maryland and Rutgers was the better choice for the B1G. It keeps the B1G in a contiguous setup, where FSU and GT would have left a big gap in their footprint. It also puts the B1G squarely in the most heavily populated area of the nation, now that the DC to NYC corridor a part of their domain. That will pay off down the road for both the B1G and the schools, as UM and RU get increased crowds and coverage. Better recruiting will follow the increased interest in those programs, due to their B1G association. I don't think putting the B1G into a southern market would have a big impact in their recruiting. They already get plenty of southern talent...

True Bit, but if the B1G plans to grow the Maryland/Rutgers markets, I could the reasons for the Big XII taking USF or UCF for the same reasons, if they ever did go to 12. Puts Florida into play as new recruiting grounds.

I'm not sure the B1G wanted Maryland or Rutgers to grow. They just wanted those markets. The growth of those programs is a perk that could end up haunting the traditional B1G powers. There's a lot of football and basketball talent in New Jersey. If Rutgers can keep most of it at home, they'll end up as a power in the B1G. IMO Maryland's potential may not be as high as Rutgers', when all is said and done. But they'll probably end up being very competitive with most B1G programs...

(06-12-2013 12:02 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 09:14 AM)S11 Wrote:  The ACC would not have imploded, they simply would have grabbed UConn and we'd be paid less at 12 members.

I am all for expansion but you assume a lot here.

If UConn was the only option to replace Maryland, FSU (and likely Clemson) would probably have defected to another league (Big 12). Louisville was the band-aid that kept the ACC together.

I am very skeptical on that. Schools will do what they feel is best and the difference between the two IMO wont push Barron or Barker to move.

I like UC and UL. Both have been doing what they need to to better their station but I simply disagree on this premise.

(06-12-2013 10:17 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 08:24 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 08:17 AM)WNCOrange Wrote:  I find this arguing over who is #4 hilarious because the reality is that it is the power 2 (SEC and the B10) and the little 3. At this point the ACC, B12 and PAC are all interchangeable. Arguing about who is #4 is ridiculous.

I definitely agree with this.

I also agree that the Big 12 should have added Louisville and Cincinnati along with West Virginia. I think as time goes along that mistake will become more and more glaring. By adding all three of those schools, the Big 12 could have triangulated the Ohio Valley and created a real synergy between those schools and could have effectively expanded their footprint in a meaningful way. Instead, they opted to go with the shortsighted band-aid approach and that will ultimately hurt everyone.

Dumb.

Similarly, I think the Big Ten's selection of Rutgers and Maryland over Florida State and Georgia Tech will also prove a significant mistake in the long run.

I disagree with your points, Doc. But what else is new?

IMO the B12 is the perfect size. Having only 10 members allows for round robin play in every sport every year, which is the perfect setup for any conference. The other conferences may end up with more inventory for their networks, but it doesn't make them better. More teams allows for unequal scheduling, where some teams miss power teams in their conference, while others get the more difficult path to their conference championship game. We've seen several instances of that in the SEC already, and every time it's had a negative effect on the team facing the tougher schedule in the conference race. Over time that will only lead to some unnecessary friction...

I also think adding Maryland and Rutgers was the better choice for the B1G. It keeps the B1G in a contiguous setup, where FSU and GT would have left a big gap in their footprint. It also puts the B1G squarely in the most heavily populated area of the nation, now that the DC to NYC corridor a part of their domain. That will pay off down the road for both the B1G and the schools, as UM and RU get increased crowds and coverage. Better recruiting will follow the increased interest in those programs, due to their B1G association. I don't think putting the B1G into a southern market would have a big impact in their recruiting. They already get plenty of southern talent...

And despite the ACC having a GOR intact, if the B10 invited Miami and/or FSU they would join in a heartbeat. Miami is spending big $ to upgrade their academics in hopes of getting an AAU invite. Once they are an AAU institution, B10 interest in them will increase significantly.

(06-12-2013 12:02 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 09:14 AM)S11 Wrote:  The ACC would not have imploded, they simply would have grabbed UConn and we'd be paid less at 12 members.

I am all for expansion but you assume a lot here.

If UConn was the only option to replace Maryland, FSU (and likely Clemson) would probably have defected to another league (Big 12). Louisville was the band-aid that kept the ACC together.

Clemson wasn't going anywhere. FSU would have left alone.

(06-12-2013 02:01 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  And despite the ACC having a GOR intact, if the B10 invited Miami and/or FSU they would join in a heartbeat. Miami is spending big $ to upgrade their academics in hopes of getting an AAU invite. Once they are an AAU institution, B10 interest in them will increase significantly.

Sure they would. What color is the sky in your world? The B1G is so wonderful any school would give up their revenues and rivalries to be a part of it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

B12 doesn't need to expand back to 12 to get a TV network, they can stay at 10 and partner with another conference to provide inventory to fill up the 168 Hr weekly program schedule. Every B12 program save WVA is on CST while every MAC program except NIU is on EST. MAC already has current B12 member WVA as a Soccer affiliate and a former B12 member Mizzou as a Wrestling affiliate. OU's Wrestling coach has stated he wants the 4 B12 Wrestling programs to join the MAC and OU is the kingpin of B12 Wrestling.

Once that happens and 4 B12 programs become MAC affiliates (WVA would be in 2 sports), some kind of time sharing on a network that would broadcast events for both conferences makes sense. For August, Sept & Oct programming the only men's team sport the B12 sponsors is Football; MAC soccer & football can fill in Sun thru Fri airtime. Once Soccer is over, WMU, Miami & BGSU hockey can help fill in airtime from Oct through March along with MAC Wrestling. When conference football ends in December, the only B12 men's team sports to fill up airtime is Hoops & Indoor Track until Baseball season starts in Feb/March.

With most programs on separate time zones, MAC teams can take the 7PM EST/6PM CST time slots for hoops while the B12 gets the 8PM CST time slot.

MAC would love to get their own sports network but it won't happen and the B12 needs inventory to fill up all those hours, can only watch so many reruns of Friday Night Lights. Leagues are primarily on separate time zones. Would be a mistake for this not to happen.

(06-12-2013 02:06 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Clemson wasn't going anywhere. FSU would have left alone.

FSU would have been a big enough catalyst to tear the ACC part, they are the only premier football program in the ACC. Miami and Clemson aren't cornerstones to a league a la Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, Florida, OSU, Michigan, USC...FSU is.

(06-12-2013 02:17 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  B12 doesn't need to expand back to 12 to get a TV network, they can stay at 10 and partner with another conference to provide inventory to fill up the 168 Hr weekly program schedule. Every B12 program save WVA is on CST while every MAC program except NIU is on EST. MAC already has current B12 member WVA as a Soccer affiliate and a former B12 member Mizzou as a Wrestling affiliate. OU's Wrestling coach has stated he wants the 4 B12 Wrestling programs to join the MAC and OU is the kingpin of B12 Wrestling.

Once that happens and 4 B12 programs become MAC affiliates (WVA would be in 2 sports), some kind of time sharing on a network that would broadcast events for both conferences makes sense. For August, Sept & Oct programming the only men's team sport the B12 sponsors is Football; MAC soccer & football can fill in Sun thru Fri airtime. Once Soccer is over, WMU, Miami & BGSU hockey can help fill in airtime from Oct through March along with MAC Wrestling. When conference football ends in December, the only B12 men's team sports to fill up airtime is Hoops & Indoor Track until Baseball season starts in Feb/March.

With most programs on separate time zones, MAC teams can take the 7PM EST/6PM CST time slots for hoops while the B12 gets the 8PM CST time slot.

MAC would love to get their own sports network but it won't happen and the B12 needs inventory to fill up all those hours, can only watch so many reruns of Friday Night Lights. Leagues are primarily on separate time zones. Would be a mistake for this not to happen.

Yeah, the Big 12 should partner with the MAC for a conference network...now I've heard everything.

This article is Big 12 damage control. When I read this kind of revisionist BS I remember this comment West Virginia's Senator Joe Manchin:

"You know what, Louisville, go back and toughen up a little bit."

Took your advice Senator. Since you uttered this ill advised comment, Louisville has:

Played for a trip to NCAA Soccer's College Cup. (You might not be familiar with that sport since your conference doesn't play it)

Won The Sugar Bowl

Won an NCAA Men's Basketball Championship

Played for an NCAA Women's Basketball Championship (after beating the tournament favorite from your conference.)

Earned a 2nd Trip to The College World Series while sweeping your conference champion along the way.

No doubt about it Senator its been a crazy year and to think your advice set all this in motion. Only question is Senator, Is that tough enough?

Thanks again for the advice. Here's hoping Senator McConnell doesn't forget a junior Senator from West Virginia challenging him. Rumor is he hasn't.
CJ

(06-13-2013 08:01 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Here's hoping Senator McConnell doesn't forget a junior Senator from West Virginia challenging him. Rumor is he hasn't.

Zero percent chance of that happening.

I always wanted Louisville in the ACC even B4 we got into the Big East. So I thank Maryland for leaving the ACC, giving us the chance to join the ACC! Louisville is a Southern Culture laced with a little Midwestern flavor. We had nothing in common with the Big 12, other than it was a better home than the AAC! So I am happy that Texas and Maryland made my dream came true!

(06-13-2013 09:01 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I always wanted Louisville in the ACC even B4 we got into the Big East. So I thank Maryland for leaving the ACC, giving us the chance to join the ACC! Louisville is a Southern Culture laced with a little Midwestern flavor. We had nothing in common with the Big 12, other than it was a better home than the AAC! So I am happy that Texas and Maryland made my dream came true!

Wilkie +2

WVU is happy in the Big XII...we are ecstatic to be in the Atlantic Coast Conference...a special thanks to Fox/Texas/DeLoss Dodds, B1G, Maryland and the ACC for making this possible...

(06-13-2013 09:12 AM)Maize Wrote:  

(06-13-2013 09:01 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I always wanted Louisville in the ACC even B4 we got into the Big East. So I thank Maryland for leaving the ACC, giving us the chance to join the ACC! Louisville is a Southern Culture laced with a little Midwestern flavor. We had nothing in common with the Big 12, other than it was a better home than the AAC! So I am happy that Texas and Maryland made my dream came true!

Wilkie +2

WVU is happy in the Big XII...we are ecstatic to be in the Atlantic Coast Conference...a special thanks to Fox/Texas/DeLoss Dodds, B1G, Maryland and the ACC for making this possible...

(06-12-2013 02:43 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(06-12-2013 02:06 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Clemson wasn't going anywhere. FSU would have left alone.

FSU would have been a big enough catalyst to tear the ACC part, they are the only premier football program in the ACC. Miami and Clemson aren't cornerstones to a league a la Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, Florida, OSU, Michigan, USC...FSU is.

Actually I think Miami is still a premier football program. When Miami is good they are a huge draw on the road and on TV. A school with that many national championships isn't on the same level as Clemson. Miami has a more recent national championship than FSU. Miami is dealing with this NCAA garbage. Once that has stabilized, they'll be back. Analysts are already picking them to win the coastal this year.

FSU leaving alone wouldn't have been enough to tear the league apart. It would have reduced the football respect for the league and made it more basketball dominant than it already is.

(06-13-2013 09:16 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(06-13-2013 09:12 AM)Maize Wrote:  

(06-13-2013 09:01 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I always wanted Louisville in the ACC even B4 we got into the Big East. So I thank Maryland for leaving the ACC, giving us the chance to join the ACC! Louisville is a Southern Culture laced with a little Midwestern flavor. We had nothing in common with the Big 12, other than it was a better home than the AAC! So I am happy that Texas and Maryland made my dream came true!

Wilkie +2

WVU is happy in the Big XII...we are ecstatic to be in the Atlantic Coast Conference...a special thanks to Fox/Texas/DeLoss Dodds, B1G, Maryland and the ACC for making this possible...

WVU fans are even happier, now that Yeager Airport has direct flights to DFW...

The most interesting part of the article is this:

"That’s the problem. The Big 12 has found a bonanza with 10 schools. The Texas/Oklahoma franchise, coupled with some interesting brands like West Virginia, OSU and Kansas State, means the Big 12 gets top dollar from the networks and has to share it only among 10 schools. Long-term, it doesn’t seem the most viable plan, but short-term, it’s the mother lode."

Quite frankly, I'm not so sure it isn't a viable long term plan. Looking at the schedules for 14 team leagues, I'm starting to think the round robin talk wasn't just lip service. And I'm not sure the biggest carrot for getting big- conference based networks- is going to be as big of a factor going forward. Pretty clear how we watch TV is rapidly changing and I'm not sure how the conference based networks revenue model (dependent on carriage fees) will fare as those habits change. I could see a shift toward financial forces favoring smaller conferences in a decade or two.

(06-13-2013 11:25 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  Pretty clear how we watch TV is rapidly changing and I'm not sure how the conference based networks revenue model (dependent on carriage fees) will fare as those habits change.

Conference TV deals with ESPN and Fox are also dependent on carriage fees. Those fees are the source of the money that ESPN and Fox have been spending on TV rights for pro and college sports. If ESPN loses the ability to stop picking the pocket of every cable/satellite subscriber for $5 every month, then the current TV deals become a bubble that will pop.

(06-13-2013 11:13 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU fans are even happier, now that Yeager Airport has direct flights to DFW...

True...but we can drive to our games...

Just messing with u...

(06-13-2013 11:31 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-13-2013 11:25 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  Pretty clear how we watch TV is rapidly changing and I'm not sure how the conference based networks revenue model (dependent on carriage fees) will fare as those habits change.

Conference TV deals with ESPN and Fox are also dependent on carriage fees. Those fees are the source of the money that ESPN and Fox have been spending on TV rights for pro and college sports. If ESPN loses the ability to stop picking the pocket of every cable/satellite subscriber for $5 every month, then the current TV deals become a bubble that will pop.

True, however the main sports channels would seem to be more able to get a comparable fee in a post-a al carte world.