After reading about Saban's new $55.2 million deal, it's become more clear to me than ever that the P5 (business) level is truly a world all its own . . . unless, of course, App State and Georgia Southern are planning to make $55 million deals with their coaches too.


"The new contract adds two years and roughly $1 million annually in salary from the previous raise he received in April 2013. Saban also will be awarded a $400,000 completion bonus per year, bringing the total contract to $55.2 million."

http://gantdaily.com/2014/06/03/alabama-...term-deal/

I don't think that there are 10 colleges in the country in the same world as Alabama. Remember, most of the teams in the top 5 conferences still lose money annually.

Alabama, Texas, USC (W), Georgia, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan, Tennessee (Yes, they still make money), LSU, Auburn, Texas aTm, Penn State all turn a profit still.
Most everyone else has a zero balance sheet at the end. And we don't really know about private schools since they don't have release their numbers.
And I've been saying it for awhile, Division IV is going to happen. The problem is the schools in the non power five conferences can't understand that they're not wanted in the power conference schools, even if they can mortgage everything and sort of compete. At a local level, Tennessee fans are sick of paying 50-80 bucks a ticket to see Tennessee play South Alabama, Georgia State, and Chattanooga. Most of the average Alabama, Southern Cal, or Ohio State fan doesn't know the difference between the AAC and the Sun Belt, and they don't care to know the difference. All they see is some small directional school from a small conference that they should beat by three touchdowns and have to write out a million dollar check to. And in all reality, they'd rather play other P5 games, set up a scenario where even if you see an odd matchup like Georgia and Iowa State, it's still an SEC/Big XII match up vs. Georgia playing Ga. Southern.
I fully expect a scenario where the non power conferences cut their scholarship limits back to around 75 roughly, and the schools in FCS that want to move up will be able to do so, and several will.

(06-04-2014 08:42 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  Alabama, Texas, USC (W), Georgia, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan, Tennessee (Yes, they still make money), LSU, Auburn, Texas aTm, Penn State all turn a profit still.
Most everyone else has a zero balance sheet at the end. And we don't really know about private schools since they don't have release their numbers.
And I've been saying it for awhile, Division IV is going to happen. The problem is the schools in the non power five conferences can't understand that they're not wanted in the power conference schools, even if they can mortgage everything and sort of compete. At a local level, Tennessee fans are sick of paying 50-80 bucks a ticket to see Tennessee play South Alabama, Georgia State, and Chattanooga. Most of the average Alabama, Southern Cal, or Ohio State fan doesn't know the difference between the AAC and the Sun Belt, and they don't care to know the difference. All they see is some small directional school from a small conference that they should beat by three touchdowns and have to write out a million dollar check to. And in all reality, they'd rather play other P5 games, set up a scenario where even if you see an odd matchup like Georgia and Iowa State, it's still an SEC/Big XII match up vs. Georgia playing Ga. Southern.
I fully expect a scenario where the non power conferences cut their scholarship limits back to around 75 roughly, and the schools in FCS that want to move up will be able to do so, and several will.

Side note to a Division IV. They'll have their own record books, thus the other conferences, schools, and individual players will no longer be able to show up there among the big boys as if they're part of the elite. It appears that another reshuffle is coming among the leftovers, that second tier that Sander's envisions. Boy, all these schools that have been busting it the last decade or longer to move to the top division in football to run with the big dogs look as if they could to be left holding the proverbial bag or some version of it.

If they create a Div. IV for the P5 schools for football, those conferences should be required to move ALL of their sports programs to that Div. IV classification.

Meaning their basketball, baseball, etc. would no longer play for Division 1 NCAA championships.

They should but wont. It'll be just like the I/I-AA split.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(06-04-2014 02:31 PM)The Cats Wrote:  If they create a Div. IV for the P5 schools for football, those conferences should be required to move ALL of their sports programs to that Div. IV classification.

Meaning their basketball, baseball, etc. would no longer play for Division 1 NCAA championships.

Oh no. Leave Division I basketball alone. I do not believe that the P5 folks want to tamper with DI basketball. It is way too successful money wise, access wise, and PR wise. Cinderella teams are a very good PR component of it and fans (and TV ratings) love it when one or more of those teams advance. No, no -- leave it alone.

So are these possible stipends and more benefits just for football, or will they be for all sports? If they are for all sports, I don't see how that is fair for them to be in the same classification in basketball. Wouldn't there have to be separate NCAA basketball tournaments?

I dont think any school has the money to do much of this with all sports. Football is a bunch of students. If you do basketball, you are stepping into the men/women crap, where the women will think that they should be paid like the men- even though there are only a handful of women's basketball teams in the country that anyone cares about.

(06-04-2014 06:19 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  So are these possible stipends and more benefits just for football, or will they be for all sports? If they are for all sports, I don't see how that is fair for them to be in the same classification in basketball. Wouldn't there have to be separate NCAA basketball tournaments?

The DI NCAA tourney is vital to the mid- majors. It would be a huge blow to get kicked out of that. But, you bring up a good point, perhaps a legal point. Can a school offer enhanced aid to basketball players in an attempt to keep up while denying enhanced aid to football players and/or other sports for economic reasons? This thing is loaded with all kinds of issues.

(06-04-2014 04:12 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 02:31 PM)The Cats Wrote:  If they create a Div. IV for the P5 schools for football, those conferences should be required to move ALL of their sports programs to that Div. IV classification.

Meaning their basketball, baseball, etc. would no longer play for Division 1 NCAA championships.

Oh no. Leave Division I basketball alone. I do not believe that the P5 folks want to tamper with DI basketball. It is way too successful money wise, access wise, and PR wise. Cinderella teams are a very good PR component of it and fans (and TV ratings) love it when one or more of those teams advance. No, no -- leave it alone.

That's the point. There should be a price to the P5 conferences if they make their move to create a new Division for football.

The NCAA will not let other schools/conferences play in another division in football, and be eligible for DI basketball. In other words, a school can not play Div. II football, and also play in Division I in all other sports.

What's good for the goose should be good for the gander, they create a Div. IV for football, fine. All their sports SHOULD go into that new Div. IV.

I think the split has already happened.
They are just trying to figure where all the chips have fallen.

(06-04-2014 08:16 PM)The Cats Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 04:12 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 02:31 PM)The Cats Wrote:  If they create a Div. IV for the P5 schools for football, those conferences should be required to move ALL of their sports programs to that Div. IV classification.

Meaning their basketball, baseball, etc. would no longer play for Division 1 NCAA championships.

Oh no. Leave Division I basketball alone. I do not believe that the P5 folks want to tamper with DI basketball. It is way too successful money wise, access wise, and PR wise. Cinderella teams are a very good PR component of it and fans (and TV ratings) love it when one or more of those teams advance. No, no -- leave it alone.

That's the point. There should be a price to the P5 conferences if they make their move to create a new Division for football.

The NCAA will not let other schools/conferences play in another division in football, and be eligible for DI basketball. In other words, a school can not play Div. II football, and also play in Division I in all other sports.

What's good for the goose should be good for the gander, they create a Div. IV for football, fine. All their sports SHOULD go into that new Div. IV.

Do you honestly think they care? If they split it off, it still leaves 60-70 teams. They can arrange scheduling together with OOC rotations, similar to the NBA, NFL, NHL, etc... The same principle holds for hoops, fans don't want to pay big money to see UT play ETSU, Western or Belmont. The P5's can just as easily throw the Big East in for basketball/Olympic sports, have six conferences (or divisions if you want to use pro sports terminology). A 48 team tournament of the big boys would bring in just as much money, especially with them playing one another throughout the regular season.

(06-04-2014 08:16 PM)The Cats Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 04:12 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 02:31 PM)The Cats Wrote:  If they create a Div. IV for the P5 schools for football, those conferences should be required to move ALL of their sports programs to that Div. IV classification.

Meaning their basketball, baseball, etc. would no longer play for Division 1 NCAA championships.

Oh no. Leave Division I basketball alone. I do not believe that the P5 folks want to tamper with DI basketball. It is way too successful money wise, access wise, and PR wise. Cinderella teams are a very good PR component of it and fans (and TV ratings) love it when one or more of those teams advance. No, no -- leave it alone.

That's the point. There should be a price to the P5 conferences if they make their move to create a new Division for football.

The NCAA will not let other schools/conferences play in another division in football, and be eligible for DI basketball. In other words, a school can not play Div. II football, and also play in Division I in all other sports.

What's good for the goose should be good for the gander, they create a Div. IV for football, fine. All their sports SHOULD go into that new Div. IV.

But, would you want Western, after winning the SoCon basketball tourney, be playing in a second tier NCAA tourney? Or, your baseball team playing in a second tier baseball tourney? The NCAA DI basketball tourney is a cornerstone of the mid-major conferences.

actually - they do not want their own division. the comments recently made by the commissioner of the SEC are part of a negotiation strategy being employed by the commissioners of the 5 power conferences. the purpose of the comments is to try and get the proposed threshold to pass legislation in the "autonomous" area to be reduced. challenge is that many individual institutions of the power conferences do not want a low threshold. there is much talk about the haves and the have nots. need to remember that even among the power conferences, there are haves and have nots. for instance - florida and tennessee see the world differently than do ole miss and miss. st. michigan and ohio state see the world differently than indiana and illinois. clemson and carolina see the world differently than wake forest and boston college . . .
the ncaa's new governance system will be passed in august. it will lead to some changes in the rules - most notably in allowing the value of a grant-in-aid to increase up to the value of full-cost-of-attendance. a bigger issue to keep an eye on is the large volume of legal challenges being faced by the NCAA and the fbs conferences. there have been 6 or 7 anti-trust lawsuits filed contending that ncaa rules illegally cap the value of grant-in-aid. it will likely take 5-7 years for these suits to get through to the supreme court where they will ultimately head. in my humble estimation this is the greatest threat to large changes in intercollegiate athletics. if the plaintiffs prevail in these cases - intercollegiate athletics as we know it today will change drastically

http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/...e-autonomy

Moving right along:

http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/sports/ncaa-boa...wer/ngxR7/

Some blowback (below), but it won't stop the Power Five. If 125 schools vote to stop this autonomy move, the Power Five folks could eventually walk away from the NCAA if they have to in order to get their way. My bet, 125 or even 75 schools will not vote to stop this because of the consequences of that happening -- especially its possible impact on the current Division I basketball setup.

http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/...o-autonomy

Sports Illustrated, Aug 16 edition (can't post it here), has an interesting article on Big Five autonomy, enhanced athletic aid, and the potential negative impact this could have on the NCAA DI basketball tourney. While many think this is about football, of which the Big Five conferences have essentially separated themselves from the pack already, it could end up being mostly about the DI basketball tourney. The Big Dance could be completely altered from its present and most successful model into a model that will completely reduce non-football playing powers, like the new Big East, for example, and the majority mid-major programs to total DI irrelevancy if not completely running them out of DI basketball.

Unless there is a significant cultural shift with more fans accompanied by TV deals expressing appreciation and support for amateurism of over the next couple decades, college athletics as we know it in 2014 will not resemble what college athletics will look like by 2034 or so.

At present, App State's move up makes financial sense:


http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/college/u...adi/nhL4M/