By all reports, the ACC was motivated to go after Pitt when it added Syracuse in response to rumors that the Big XII would be going after Pitt. Apparently the ACC didn't want to allow the Big XII to get a foothold in the Northeast and saw Pitt as a firewall against encroachment any farther east than West Virginia.

But did they really overthink this one?

Gordon Gee now says that the B1G went after Rutgers and Maryland to grab the heart of the Middle Atlantic and to block the ACC.

Think about the implications. If the ACC takes Rutgers instead of Pitt, the B1G leaves Maryland alone and the ACC controls the Boston - Washington corridor with BC, Rutgers, & Maryland with a little help from Syracuse. Penn State remains on an island. The B1G still has Philly and some interest in NYC but they really don't have any physical presence on the East Coast in that big population corridor.

The ACC might claim to be better off with the athletics at Pitt and Louisville than at Rutgers and Maryland, but that ignores the 3 rules of Real Estate:

1. Location
2. Location
3. Location

Just as you can't teach height in basketball, you can't change location. Athletic success comes and goes, but location remains the same. The ACC may have really shot themselves in the foot with this one because they have now conceded the 3 states of PA, NJ, & MD with a combined population of 26 million to the B1G.

The B1G really didn't need the NYC ties although it's obviously nice to have, but the ACC did. Schools like Duke and Miami bring in a lot of students from the Northeast and send a lot of alums to NYC. Even schools like Clemson, North Carolina, and Virginia have become attractive to Northeasterners and have their share of NE kids in their student body.

Did the ACC need Pitt? Not really. Had the Big XII taken Pitt, the conference still wouldn't have moved farther east if the ACC tied up Syracuse & Rutgers. The B!G wasn't interested in Pitt.

So, what did the ACC gain? Louisville football and not much else.

Of course markets are important, but let's compare the two schools using major realignment categories.

Pitt > Rutgers in almost every aspect.

Pitt vs. Rutgers

Football - Pitt
Basketball - Pitt
Football tradition - Pitt
Basketball tradition - Pitt
Fan support - Pitt
Location - Tie (Both good recruiting grounds, and both bridged ACC)
Facilities - Pitt
Market - Rutgers
Academics - Pitt

My guess is Pitt used the Big XII as leverage to get into the ACC. Syracuse likely lobbied on Pitt's behalf. Adding Pitt was also a more nationally relevant move, compared to adding Rutgers.

What prevents Rutgers and Maryland from taking a Big Ten offer even as ACC members? Maryland already proved they had no loyalty to the conference and Rutgers has never made a secret that they preferred the Big Ten over the ACC.

Totally agree. That's why I've been saying for years now that the ACC is doomed, DOOMED I tell ye!

Boo-ha-ha-ha, Boo-ha-ha-ha, Boo-ha-ha-ha!

I think Maryland leaves the ACC no matter happens. Taking Rutgers may have prevented the Big 10 from grabbing them (maybe), as I've always viewed Rutgers as the best available school to round out the numbers. The Big 10 wanted Maryland. Rutgers was just the easiest available fill in to even out the numbers. I'm sure the Big 10 isn't selling it that way, but Rutgers is not seen as some huge "get". So in the end, I don't think much changes. It's like the Big 10 ends up with Pitt or UConn instead if Rutgers is off the table.

The B1G added Rutgers because everybody else they asked said no. Delaney can talk as much as he want about adding them for "market," but the reality is there simply isn't one.

John Swofford sure seems like a smart guy. How did he miss Rutgers...twice? And the Big XII was in desperation survival mode and there weren't even rumors they were considering Rutgers. Everyone knows about WVU and Louisville. I saw rumors about Cincinnati, Memphis, BYU, Boise, Houston, New Mexico, Air Force and Colorado State. There weren't even rumors that the Big XII was even considering Rutgers.

The B1G can spin it all they want but they added Maryland to try to steal some of the thunder from the ACC adding Notre Dame and Rutgers came along because they couldn't get anyone else.

I hate to crap on Rutgers because it's a good school but they have been horrible for almost a century now in both football and basketball and because of this, their fans just really don't care. People keep talking about market but Rutgers does not carry any market. It's purely a pro sports area and several 8-4 seasons is not going to change that. I have been to their games and this is not a fan base that is comparable to other state schools in the midwest. Pitt is somewhat the same way but it's not like Rutgers is going to draw in a larger audience on tv or in the stands.

The ACC liked the Pitt brand which for the 50-60 year old power brokers is extremely high because of how successful Pitt was back in the day. Plus, the ACC got one of the elite research schools in the country which the UVA/Duke crowd loves.

(06-05-2013 11:07 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Of course markets are important, but let's compare the two schools using major realignment categories.

Pitt > Rutgers in almost every aspect.

Pitt vs. Rutgers

Football - Pitt
Basketball - Pitt
Football tradition - Pitt
Basketball tradition - Pitt
Fan support - Pitt
Location - Tie (Both good recruiting grounds, and both bridged ACC)
Facilities - Pitt
Market - Rutgers
Academics - Pitt

My guess is Pitt used the Big XII as leverage to get into the ACC. Syracuse likely lobbied on Pitt's behalf. Adding Pitt was also a more nationally relevant move, compared to adding Rutgers.

I'd have to disagree with you on academics. Rutgers would take the nod there. In addition, I would give Rutgers the nod over Pitt for facilities. Pitt doesn't even have a football stadium, Rutgers has a nice football stadium and facilities far superior to Pitt which uses the Steelers facilities. How Pitt got into the ACC with NO football stadium is beyond me.

If the ACC had a network already up and running maybe. For now, the ACC needs good quality competition to generate even more interest than what already exists. In terms of basketball, Rutgers doesn't generate much interest outside of NY/NJ area. Teams like Louisville, Pitt, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Duke, and UNC generate interest in that area and much more. I wouldn't have gotten more excited to see UNC play Rutgers over UNC and Pitt.

Also disagree on fan base. If Pitt isn't playing Notre Dame, Penn St or West Virginia they are going to have a lot of trouble selling out Heinz Field. There traving fan base to away games and bowls is non existent. They do have a fantastic football tradition, especially pre 1990. The football tradition plus having a great bball program tipped the scale. Rutgers probably fits better in the BIG with the other state schools. Pitt fits in well with the urban schools that the ACC seems to prefer

Jackson

(06-05-2013 11:07 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Of course markets are important, but let's compare the two schools using major realignment categories.

Pitt > Rutgers in almost every aspect.

Pitt vs. Rutgers

Football - Pitt
Basketball - Pitt
Football tradition - Pitt
Basketball tradition - Pitt
Fan support - Pitt
Location - Tie (Both good recruiting grounds, and both bridged ACC)
Facilities - Pitt
Market - Rutgers
Academics - Pitt

BWAHAHAHAHA

(06-05-2013 10:35 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  By all reports, the ACC was motivated to go after Pitt when it added Syracuse in response to rumors that the Big XII would be going after Pitt. Apparently the ACC didn't want to allow the Big XII to get a foothold in the Northeast and saw Pitt as a firewall against encroachment any farther east than West Virginia.

But did they really overthink this one?

Gordon Gee now says that the B1G went after Rutgers and Maryland to grab the heart of the Middle Atlantic and to block the ACC.

Think about the implications. If the ACC takes Rutgers instead of Pitt, the B1G leaves Maryland alone and the ACC controls the Boston - Washington corridor with BC, Rutgers, & Maryland with a little help from Syracuse. Penn State remains on an island. The B1G still has Philly and some interest in NYC but they really don't have any physical presence on the East Coast in that big population corridor.

The ACC might claim to be better off with the athletics at Pitt and Louisville than at Rutgers and Maryland, but that ignores the 3 rules of Real Estate:

1. Location
2. Location
3. Location

Just as you can't teach height in basketball, you can't change location. Athletic success comes and goes, but location remains the same. The ACC may have really shot themselves in the foot with this one because they have now conceded the 3 states of PA, NJ, & MD with a combined population of 26 million to the B1G.

The B1G really didn't need the NYC ties although it's obviously nice to have, but the ACC did. Schools like Duke and Miami bring in a lot of students from the Northeast and send a lot of alums to NYC. Even schools like Clemson, North Carolina, and Virginia have become attractive to Northeasterners and have their share of NE kids in their student body.

Did the ACC need Pitt? Not really. Had the Big XII taken Pitt, the conference still wouldn't have moved farther east if the ACC tied up Syracuse & Rutgers. The B!G wasn't interested in Pitt.

So, what did the ACC gain? Louisville football and not much else.

?
UConn will not be invited to join the ACC.

First it was the WVU fans who tried like crazy to crap all over the ACC because the school was passed over for an invite. Now UCONN fans are getting their panties wadded up and are out to criticize the ACC because they clearly are upset because they were a "done deal" to join the ACC until a fly dropped into the ointment...

We all know the reason why this thread was started. It was set up to flow like this:

• Critique the ACC using goofy ass Gee's comments that the B1G "blocked" the ACC.
• Propose that RUTGERS should have been taken over Pitt.
• Naturally, people will say "Rutgers preferred the B1G and would still leave the ACC - back to square one.
• Enter UCONN - the "real or true" solution to locking up the northeast corridor.
  

Melky, this thread is transparent to what you really want to discuss. You want this to shift over to the "injustice" that UCONN is not in the ACC today, and how UCONN "deserves" to be in the ACC.

(06-05-2013 10:35 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  By all reports, the ACC was motivated to go after Pitt when it added Syracuse in response to rumors that the Big XII would be going after Pitt. Apparently the ACC didn't want to allow the Big XII to get a foothold in the Northeast and saw Pitt as a firewall against encroachment any farther east than West Virginia.

But did they really overthink this one?

No.

Quote:Gordon Gee now says that the B1G went after Rutgers and Maryland to grab the heart of the Middle Atlantic and to block the ACC.

Block the ACC from what? Crabcakes? And, we're really going to take what Gordon Gee says to heart?

Quote:Think about the implications. If the ACC takes Rutgers instead of Pitt, the B1G leaves Maryland alone and the ACC controls the Boston - Washington corridor with BC, Rutgers, & Maryland with a little help from Syracuse. Penn State remains on an island. The B1G still has Philly and some interest in NYC but they really don't have any physical presence on the East Coast in that big population corridor.

You realize that:

a) the ACC could have invited Rutgers at any time between 2004 and yesterday, but they believed Syracuse, VT, Pitt, Miama and BC were more valuable, and

b) the B1G HAD to take a school to pair with Maryland (who most of us believe will regret leaving within 5-10 years) -- the choices were basically Rutgers and UConn.

The B1G chose Rutgers.

Your beef should be with Delaney. Or the officials in Connecticut who sued the ACC and several member schools following the first expansion.

Quote:The ACC might claim to be better off with the athletics at Pitt and Louisville than at Rutgers and Maryland, but that ignores the 3 rules of Real Estate:

1. Location
2. Location
3. Location

Just as you can't teach height in basketball, you can't change location. Athletic success comes and goes, but location remains the same. The ACC may have really shot themselves in the foot with this one because they have now conceded the 3 states of PA, NJ, & MD with a combined population of 26 million to the B1G.

The B1G really didn't need the NYC ties although it's obviously nice to have, but the ACC did. Schools like Duke and Miami bring in a lot of students from the Northeast and send a lot of alums to NYC. Even schools like Clemson, North Carolina, and Virginia have become attractive to Northeasterners and have their share of NE kids in their student body.

Did the ACC need Pitt? Not really. Had the Big XII taken Pitt, the conference still wouldn't have moved farther east if the ACC tied up Syracuse & Rutgers. The B!G wasn't interested in Pitt.

So, what did the ACC gain? Louisville football and not much else.

1) 5 FB games w/ Notre Dame per season
2) Louisville's basketball program
3) Addition by subtraction (no more Maryland basketball)
4) Better bowl games
5) We'll take Pitt, TYVM

(06-06-2013 06:35 AM)justinslot Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 11:07 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Of course markets are important, but let's compare the two schools using major realignment categories.

Pitt > Rutgers in almost every aspect.

Pitt vs. Rutgers

Football - Pitt
Basketball - Pitt
Football tradition - Pitt
Basketball tradition - Pitt
Fan support - Pitt
Location - Tie (Both good recruiting grounds, and both bridged ACC)
Facilities - Pitt
Market - Rutgers
Academics - Pitt

BWAHAHAHAHA

Have to agree. Pitt was the worst traveling fan base in the BE.

(06-05-2013 10:35 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  By all reports, the ACC was motivated to go after Pitt when it added Syracuse in response to rumors that the Big XII would be going after Pitt. Apparently the ACC didn't want to allow the Big XII to get a foothold in the Northeast and saw Pitt as a firewall against encroachment any farther east than West Virginia.

But did they really overthink this one?

Gordon Gee now says that the B1G went after Rutgers and Maryland to grab the heart of the Middle Atlantic and to block the ACC.

Think about the implications. If the ACC takes Rutgers instead of Pitt, the B1G leaves Maryland alone and the ACC controls the Boston - Washington corridor with BC, Rutgers, & Maryland with a little help from Syracuse. Penn State remains on an island. The B1G still has Philly and some interest in NYC but they really don't have any physical presence on the East Coast in that big population corridor.

The ACC might claim to be better off with the athletics at Pitt and Louisville than at Rutgers and Maryland, but that ignores the 3 rules of Real Estate:

1. Location
2. Location
3. Location

Just as you can't teach height in basketball, you can't change location. Athletic success comes and goes, but location remains the same. The ACC may have really shot themselves in the foot with this one because they have now conceded the 3 states of PA, NJ, & MD with a combined population of 26 million to the B1G.

The B1G really didn't need the NYC ties although it's obviously nice to have, but the ACC did. Schools like Duke and Miami bring in a lot of students from the Northeast and send a lot of alums to NYC. Even schools like Clemson, North Carolina, and Virginia have become attractive to Northeasterners and have their share of NE kids in their student body.

Did the ACC need Pitt? Not really. Had the Big XII taken Pitt, the conference still wouldn't have moved farther east if the ACC tied up Syracuse & Rutgers. The B!G wasn't interested in Pitt.

So, what did the ACC gain? Louisville football and not much else.

Just Louisville Football.......really. Last I checked on the athletic field Louisville Women Basketball Team played for the NCAA Title for the 2nd time in 6 years...it Baseball team is 2 wins away from going back to the College World Series for the 2nd time in 6 years and by the way we are the current Men Basketball National Champions...winning our 3rd Overall Title while adding to our total of 10 Final Four appearances.

Just another UConn butt hurt thread...

(06-06-2013 05:29 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 11:07 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Of course markets are important, but let's compare the two schools using major realignment categories.

Pitt > Rutgers in almost every aspect.

Pitt vs. Rutgers

Football - Pitt
Basketball - Pitt
Football tradition - Pitt
Basketball tradition - Pitt
Fan support - Pitt
Location - Tie (Both good recruiting grounds, and both bridged ACC)
Facilities - Pitt
Market - Rutgers
Academics - Pitt

My guess is Pitt used the Big XII as leverage to get into the ACC. Syracuse likely lobbied on Pitt's behalf. Adding Pitt was also a more nationally relevant move, compared to adding Rutgers.

I'd have to disagree with you on academics. Rutgers would take the nod there. In addition, I would give Rutgers the nod over Pitt for facilities. Pitt doesn't even have a football stadium, Rutgers has a nice football stadium and facilities far superior to Pitt which uses the Steelers facilities. How Pitt got into the ACC with NO football stadium is beyond me.

The Steelers rent their practice facilities from Pitt. But don't let facts stand in the way of your preconceived opinion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

(06-05-2013 10:35 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  By all reports, the ACC was motivated to go after Pitt when it added Syracuse in response to rumors that the Big XII would be going after Pitt. Apparently the ACC didn't want to allow the Big XII to get a foothold in the Northeast and saw Pitt as a firewall against encroachment any farther east than West Virginia.

But did they really overthink this one?

Gordon Gee now says that the B1G went after Rutgers and Maryland to grab the heart of the Middle Atlantic and to block the ACC.

Think about the implications. If the ACC takes Rutgers instead of Pitt, the B1G leaves Maryland alone and the ACC controls the Boston - Washington corridor with BC, Rutgers, & Maryland with a little help from Syracuse. Penn State remains on an island. The B1G still has Philly and some interest in NYC but they really don't have any physical presence on the East Coast in that big population corridor.

The ACC might claim to be better off with the athletics at Pitt and Louisville than at Rutgers and Maryland, but that ignores the 3 rules of Real Estate:

1. Location
2. Location
3. Location

Just as you can't teach height in basketball, you can't change location. Athletic success comes and goes, but location remains the same. The ACC may have really shot themselves in the foot with this one because they have now conceded the 3 states of PA, NJ, & MD with a combined population of 26 million to the B1G.

The B1G really didn't need the NYC ties although it's obviously nice to have, but the ACC did. Schools like Duke and Miami bring in a lot of students from the Northeast and send a lot of alums to NYC. Even schools like Clemson, North Carolina, and Virginia have become attractive to Northeasterners and have their share of NE kids in their student body.

Did the ACC need Pitt? Not really. Had the Big XII taken Pitt, the conference still wouldn't have moved farther east if the ACC tied up Syracuse & Rutgers. The B!G wasn't interested in Pitt.

So, what did the ACC gain? Louisville football and not much else.

Louisville basketball and much much more.

(06-06-2013 08:49 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  

(06-06-2013 05:29 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 11:07 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Of course markets are important, but let's compare the two schools using major realignment categories.

Pitt > Rutgers in almost every aspect.

Pitt vs. Rutgers

Football - Pitt
Basketball - Pitt
Football tradition - Pitt
Basketball tradition - Pitt
Fan support - Pitt
Location - Tie (Both good recruiting grounds, and both bridged ACC)
Facilities - Pitt
Market - Rutgers
Academics - Pitt

My guess is Pitt used the Big XII as leverage to get into the ACC. Syracuse likely lobbied on Pitt's behalf. Adding Pitt was also a more nationally relevant move, compared to adding Rutgers.

I'd have to disagree with you on academics. Rutgers would take the nod there. In addition, I would give Rutgers the nod over Pitt for facilities. Pitt doesn't even have a football stadium, Rutgers has a nice football stadium and facilities far superior to Pitt which uses the Steelers facilities. How Pitt got into the ACC with NO football stadium is beyond me.

The Steelers rent their practice facilities from Pitt. But don't let facts stand in the way of your preconceived opinion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Exactly, Pitt has one of the best practice facilities in the nation...it is literally NFL Standard...nothing beats that...

Well, I've visited Connecticut, that's why I'm glad I live in Kentucky.