SEC supports proposal for $4K stipend. So does Urban Meyer.

http://ohiostate.rivals.com/content.asp?...&PT=4&PR=2

Of course, they would love to see a pay cut.

(06-05-2013 08:57 AM)TARDledo Wrote:  Of course, they would love to see a pay cut.

Take it out of the BCS contract (or whatever it's called). Same could be done for BB players and March Madness.

I propose paying only 5 football players and 1 basketball player in Each class (a total of 20 football and 4 basketball players per team.) If a guy redshirts the total still is capped at 20 football and 4 basketball. Women basketball players would get the same treatment. This would be great for the MAC since lots of guys who would not get any $ at the Big Ten or SEC level could get paid by mid majors. This would increase parity throughout the country.

(06-05-2013 11:02 AM)Rocket75 Wrote:  I propose paying only 5 football players and 1 basketball player in Each class (a total of 20 football and 4 basketball players per team.) If a guy redshirts the total still is capped at 20 football and 4 basketball. Women basketball players would get the same treatment. This would be great for the MAC since lots of guys who would not get any $ at the Big Ten or SEC level could get paid by mid majors. This would increase parity throughout the country.

That would never happen but it would be a GREAT solution.

The top players would make sure they got paid and it would totally shift the talent dynamic across the FBS landscape and for that reason it will NEVER happen. But man, would I LOVE to see it.

I suggest that the AD at every MAC school, (and every mid major), has been worried about this for some time.

Evidently a scholarship worth tens of thousands of dollars of free higher education - with no worry of carrying around a loan debt for years after graduating - isn't enough. And for dozens of players, especially across the BCS schools, it'll be an NFL/NBA salary with all its intangible perks after graduating as opposed to a $25K entry level job in a cubicle.

(06-05-2013 11:02 AM)Rocket75 Wrote:  I propose paying only 5 football players and 1 basketball player in Each class (a total of 20 football and 4 basketball players per team.) If a guy redshirts the total still is capped at 20 football and 4 basketball. Women basketball players would get the same treatment. This would be great for the MAC since lots of guys who would not get any $ at the Big Ten or SEC level could get paid by mid majors. This would increase parity throughout the country.

A very rational, logical compromise but it'll never fly for the big boys.

The next time I turn on an NCAA basketball team and not see these poor kids sleeved with expensive artwork I may change my mind and think they need the money. Somehow cellphones, ink and bling are the most important they need this money for. Much of this talk started after the Ohio State tattoo scandal because the NCAA figured they couldn't keep track anymore...great idea! So when these poor kids that have zero money somehow afford cars, diamonds, jewelry, tattoos and iPhones (with expensive monthly plans) confuses the NCAA into not knowing where the $$ comes from, just wait until they're entitled to a small sum of money legitimately and the big schools make their $1000 payment $5000.

(06-05-2013 08:56 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  SEC supports proposal for $4K stipend. So does Urban Meyer.

http://ohiostate.rivals.com/content.asp?...&PT=4&PR=2

This game is so rigged. This stipend started out at $2000, then $3,000, now $4,000? Its like they want to pay as little as they possibly have to until it is high enough that the smaller conferences cant afford it. Its like they are playing poker and raising the ante until the guys with the small stack have to fold.

This isn't about them being nice or caring about the student athlete, this is only to force the Go5 schools out the door under the cover of being nice guys. "Oh look, the evil Go5 conferences are so mean they dont support the stipend money, we have NO CHOICE but to break away"

If the MAC said, yep we are in at $4,000 stipend, guess what. All of a sudden we would be hearing about a $7,000 stipend, because geesh, thats the right thing to do.

Pay players, and you become subject to national and state labor laws. You also have Title IX problems.

(06-05-2013 05:07 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  The next time I turn on an NCAA basketball team and not see these poor kids sleeved with expensive artwork I may change my mind and think they need the money. Somehow cellphones, ink and bling are the most important they need this money for. Much of this talk started after the Ohio State tattoo scandal because the NCAA figured they couldn't keep track anymore...great idea! So when these poor kids that have zero money somehow afford cars, diamonds, jewelry, tattoos and iPhones (with expensive monthly plans) confuses the NCAA into not knowing where the $$ comes from, just wait until they're entitled to a small sum of money legitimately and the big schools make their $1000 payment $5000.

That's what I pointed out a few months ago - how can sooo many student-athletes afford elaborate tattoos, yet complain that they don't have money to buy food, etc.? Or they can afford to go out to the club and get drunk, but can't afford food.

(06-05-2013 05:25 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  Pay players, and you become subject to national and state labor laws. You also have Title IX problems.

Exactly. The other sports will then files lawsuits as well saying where is our cut? A school where say hockey is strong will say we do better than basketball, we should be paid as well.

(06-05-2013 08:15 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 05:25 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  Pay players, and you become subject to national and state labor laws. You also have Title IX problems.

Exactly. The other sports will then files lawsuits as well saying where is our cut? A school where say hockey is strong will say we do better than basketball, we should be paid as well.

PH hit it on the head. This has been a discussion in the MAC. The view among several MAC schools (believe KSU to be one) is that the only equitable way is to pay everyone on scholarship, or on a pro rata basis for partial scholarships. The disparity between the revenue and non revenue sports creates tension as it is, and the inequity, as well as legality, as to who gets paid and who doesn't could be toxic.

Some will say, "Just pay the revenue sports." Title IX is a huge issue barrier. Once football and basketball are paid, nearly every female athlete will need to be paid for balance. The, how do you explain that you'll pay softball players but not baseball players? Or, women's track but not men's track? Women's golf but not men's golf?

In the MAC, the "pay everyone" estimates are between $550-700K a year at $2000.00. Doubling this rate puts this bill at over a million a year.
This is in addition to the rising tuition/fees rates athletics departments pay. Every time tuition or fees go up ay our institution, your athletic department pays that rate. Pays out of state rates, too, for out of state athletes.

This is "pay" debate isn't going away. You might have read about the lawsuit a group of players have about schools getting revenue for their likenesses on games etc. but them not getting their share. In tracking it, it's thought to have merit. So, to settle, suggest that institutions pay athletes a stipend for a blanket use of image. Think that's why the issue is back on the table. But it's a disaster for the MAC.

(06-05-2013 05:25 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  Pay players, and you become subject to national and state labor laws. You also have Title IX problems.

And Obamacare.

I know many players already getting a decent amount of free money, this is what I pulled from an article:


Pell Grant

Many football student-athletes qualify for a Pell Grant based on several factors, but most earn a Pell Grant based on a lack of wealth from their parents. According to collegeboard.com, “The U.S. Department of Education uses a standard formula to evaluate the information you supply when applying for a Pell Grant. This formula produces a number called the Expected Family Contribution (EFC), which determines if you are eligible. The grant requires that you: 1. Are an undergraduate student who has not earned a bachelor’s degree. 2. Are a U.S. citizen or an eligible noncitizen. 3. Have a high school diploma or a GED, or demonstrate the ability to benefit from the program”

A full Pell Grant is worth $5,500 a year and never has to be repaid because it is a grant, not a loan. Football players get $5,500 each year to do with what they want.

Clothing Money
If a football player qualifies for a Pell Grant, they also get $500 of clothing allowance each year. My memory fails me, but I am almost certain this money is from the conference. Football players can buy whatever clothes they want as long as they bring back $500 worth of receipts to their Compliance department showing the clothes they bought. Now, many football players will spend this money on new Nike’s, hats, jeans or t–shirts. This money could be spent on buying a nice suit, or a few pairs of khaki pants and some button down shirts, but rarely is that the case.


Commissioner's like the Big 10's Jim Delaney talk about full cost scholarships, but remember that goes to every student-athlete on a full scholarship, not just football players.

Student-Athlete Opportunity Fund
According to Bylaw 15.01.6.2 in the NCAA Manual, each athletic department can use the student-athlete opportunity fund money for anything but financing salaries, scholarships (though paying for summer school is allowed, but a football player’s scholarship covers summer school), capital improvements, stipends, and outside athletic development. The NCAA gives each school a chunk of money each year…roughly $200,000 to help student-athletes out with whatever needs they may have deemed fit by the senior staff member in the athletic department in charge of the money. This money is not just for football, but the entire athletic department. Regardless, if a football player needs money to pay for gas, more new clothes, or a plane ride home, they can legally get money for that.

Special Assistance Fund
Football players also have access to a special assistance fund too. According to NCAA bylaw 16.12.2, money from the special assistance fund may be requested as additional financial aid (with no obligation to repay such aid) for special financial needs for student-athletes. I know one school used this fund to fly their basketball players home for the Christmas break. Completely within NCAA rules.

(06-06-2013 05:37 AM)FlashFan Wrote:  PH hit it on the head.

(06-06-2013 08:18 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  I know many players already getting a decent amount of free money, this is what I pulled from an article:


Pell Grant

Many football student-athletes qualify for a Pell Grant based on several factors, but most earn a Pell Grant based on a lack of wealth from their parents. According to collegeboard.com, “The U.S. Department of Education uses a standard formula to evaluate the information you supply when applying for a Pell Grant. This formula produces a number called the Expected Family Contribution (EFC), which determines if you are eligible. The grant requires that you: 1. Are an undergraduate student who has not earned a bachelor’s degree. 2. Are a U.S. citizen or an eligible noncitizen. 3. Have a high school diploma or a GED, or demonstrate the ability to benefit from the program”

A full Pell Grant is worth $5,500 a year and never has to be repaid because it is a grant, not a loan. Football players get $5,500 each year to do with what they want.

Clothing Money
If a football player qualifies for a Pell Grant, they also get $500 of clothing allowance each year. My memory fails me, but I am almost certain this money is from the conference. Football players can buy whatever clothes they want as long as they bring back $500 worth of receipts to their Compliance department showing the clothes they bought. Now, many football players will spend this money on new Nike’s, hats, jeans or t–shirts. This money could be spent on buying a nice suit, or a few pairs of khaki pants and some button down shirts, but rarely is that the case.


Commissioner's like the Big 10's Jim Delaney talk about full cost scholarships, but remember that goes to every student-athlete on a full scholarship, not just football players.

Student-Athlete Opportunity Fund
According to Bylaw 15.01.6.2 in the NCAA Manual, each athletic department can use the student-athlete opportunity fund money for anything but financing salaries, scholarships (though paying for summer school is allowed, but a football player’s scholarship covers summer school), capital improvements, stipends, and outside athletic development. The NCAA gives each school a chunk of money each year…roughly $200,000 to help student-athletes out with whatever needs they may have deemed fit by the senior staff member in the athletic department in charge of the money. This money is not just for football, but the entire athletic department. Regardless, if a football player needs money to pay for gas, more new clothes, or a plane ride home, they can legally get money for that.

Special Assistance Fund
Football players also have access to a special assistance fund too. According to NCAA bylaw 16.12.2, money from the special assistance fund may be requested as additional financial aid (with no obligation to repay such aid) for special financial needs for student-athletes. I know one school used this fund to fly their basketball players home for the Christmas break. Completely within NCAA rules.

PH, let me start by stating that I am in violent agreement with you. Players have access to the resource they need and more. In informal discussions with KSU athletes, many said they really didn't need to be paid. (Maybe they'd want to, which is a different point.)

I'll present the other side of the argument, even though I disagree. It goes like this: These schools ( BCS, not mid major) make millions off of athletics. The coaches and AD's get richer. The school gets donations. Everyone gets a fair share other than the athletes. It's unpaid labor.

That part of the debate has been around for awhile, but the use of likeness is new Use of Likeness Class Action. The USA Today article is a good summary. It claims private companies, like EA Sports, deal with the NCAA and institutions to use player's likeness without permission or compensation. Again, this argument goes, everyone makes money except the athlete. And, if you use someone's likeness in a commercial venture, they must be paid. So, while the NCAA has been reluctant to advance the "pay" issue- the courts may order schools to do so. The case is coming to trial soon- keep your eye on the outcome. It has huge implications for the MAC or other mid majors.

(06-06-2013 09:59 AM)FlashFan Wrote:  I'll present the other side of the argument, even though I disagree. It goes like this: These schools ( BCS, not mid major) make millions off of athletics. The coaches and AD's get richer. The school gets donations. Everyone gets a fair share other than the athletes. It's unpaid labor.

Fair share is hard to determine. They certainly get a share, and it's not unpaid labor.

However, what lets these athletes be so popular? Their skill? Or the University?

Put them in semi-pro leagues and see how much money they make.

Fact is, universities make money b/c of fans of the university...not of these athletes.

I just want to know what violent agreement looks like.