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Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-05-2013 08:28 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  
(06-04-2013 10:59 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Wow, pushing a QB of Yates' stature has me convinced that Keenum will be a quality third stringer!

Perhaps you should, once more, make another account. Your name makes no sense as you've denounce the Big East and its members. 07-coffee3
Well, considering there are just 32 NFL starting QBs in the entire world, I don't think young Keenum is doing too bad for himself. Even Aaron Rodgers rode the pine before he got his shot.

You should truly stick to Lacrosse, where no one will chop you down because they don't give a rats *$$.
Aaron Rodgers was sitting behind Bret Favre, one of the best QBs ever to play. Keenum is battling someone who has done nothing worthy of notice. There's a slight difference there, dude...

BTW, the lacrosse comment was totally uncalled for... 05-nono
06-05-2013 09:16 AM
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oliveandblue Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-04-2013 06:12 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  I don't think Kevin Sumlin's offense is good at producing NFL talented QB's. That Case Keenum guy is nothing now. I don't think Manziel will amount to anything either. He's simply a byproduct of Sumlin's system.

I hate it when people shoot a man down before he even gets a chance. I hope Manziel tears it up in the NFL - and I don't care much for him, the SEC, or Texas A&M. Kid isn't even 21 and people are trying to say that he won't make it...
06-05-2013 09:22 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-05-2013 09:22 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  
(06-04-2013 06:12 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  I don't think Kevin Sumlin's offense is good at producing NFL talented QB's. That Case Keenum guy is nothing now. I don't think Manziel will amount to anything either. He's simply a byproduct of Sumlin's system.
I hate it when people shoot a man down before he even gets a chance. I hope Manziel tears it up in the NFL - and I don't care much for him, the SEC, or Texas A&M. Kid isn't even 21 and people are trying to say that he won't make it...
I'm not crazy about people knocking a kid playing a game better than the poster who made the comment ever could either. But it's America, and free speech is guaranteed by the Constitution. So there's nothing anyone can do about it - except Manziel, who has the ability to make him eat those words by proving him wrong...
06-05-2013 09:37 AM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
With the success of Newton, Wilson, and RGIII, Manziel should have a chance at a career in the NFL if he keeps up his play.
06-05-2013 09:49 AM
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BigEastHomer Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-05-2013 09:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(06-05-2013 08:28 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  
(06-04-2013 10:59 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Wow, pushing a QB of Yates' stature has me convinced that Keenum will be a quality third stringer!

Perhaps you should, once more, make another account. Your name makes no sense as you've denounce the Big East and its members. 07-coffee3
Well, considering there are just 32 NFL starting QBs in the entire world, I don't think young Keenum is doing too bad for himself. Even Aaron Rodgers rode the pine before he got his shot.

You should truly stick to Lacrosse, where no one will chop you down because they don't give a rats *$$.
Aaron Rodgers was sitting behind Bret Favre, one of the best QBs ever to play. Keenum is battling someone who has done nothing worthy of notice. There's a slight difference there, dude...

BTW, the lacrosse comment was totally uncalled for... 05-nono

Correction: Keenum is sitting behind a veteran QB with HUGE multimillion dollar contract that the Texans invested in Schaub.

No matter what you think of his abilities, you have to respect the economics of the situation.

There is a process is place for unseating a player with that status, and it involves getting more pro experience and performing when the lights are on.

To label the guy a failure is nothing more than showing ignorance of the game itself.
06-05-2013 10:23 AM
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jml2010 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-05-2013 09:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(06-05-2013 08:28 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  
(06-04-2013 10:59 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Wow, pushing a QB of Yates' stature has me convinced that Keenum will be a quality third stringer!

Perhaps you should, once more, make another account. Your name makes no sense as you've denounce the Big East and its members. 07-coffee3
Well, considering there are just 32 NFL starting QBs in the entire world, I don't think young Keenum is doing too bad for himself. Even Aaron Rodgers rode the pine before he got his shot.

You should truly stick to Lacrosse, where no one will chop you down because they don't give a rats *$$.
Aaron Rodgers was sitting behind Bret Favre, one of the best QBs ever to play. Keenum is battling someone who has done nothing worthy of notice. There's a slight difference there, dude...

BTW, the lacrosse comment was totally uncalled for... 05-nono

Bit, TJ Yates led the Houston Texans to their 1st playoff berth in 2011 after Matt Schaub was injured.

Quote:Made his first career start, completing 12-of-25 passes for 188 yards including his first career touchdown pass, a 3-yard completion to Joel Dreessen, vs. Atlanta (12/4)
Completed 26-of-44 passes for 300 yards and two touchdowns at Cincinnati (12/11)
Led two 80-plus yard drives in the fourth quarter including throwing a 6-yard touchdown pass to Kevin Walter with two seconds remaining to complete the comeback that clinched the AFC South Division title against the Bengals
Earned NFL Rookie of the Week honors for his performance in Cincinnati in Week 14
Completed his first eight pass attempts and finished the game 19-of-30 for 212 yards with no touchdowns and two interceptions vs. Carolina (12/18)
Completed 13-of-16 passes for 132 yards and a 101.0 passer rating at Indianapols (12/22)
Started for the fifth time and completed all four of his pass attempts for 47 yards before leaving the game early in the first quarter vs. Tennessee (1/1/12)
Made his postseason debut where he completed 11-of-20 passes for 159 yards, including a 40-yard touchdown pass to Andre Johnson in AFC Wild Card Playoff vs. Cincinnati (1/7/12)
Completed 17-of-35 passes for 184 yards and threw three interceptions in AFC Divisional Playoff at Baltimore (1/15/12)

I have no idea if Keenum is better than Yates but I think Yates has been a worthy back up to Matt Schaub. I know others won't like it because their hometown QB is 3rd string but it is what it is. Hey, did you know Yates has the same number of playoff wins as Tony Romo. 05-stirthepot
06-05-2013 10:34 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-05-2013 09:49 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  With the success of Newton, Wilson, and RGIII, Manziel should have a chance at a career in the NFL if he keeps up his play.
There will be room for new QB's, as they way Newton and RG III play the game, they will not be starting in five years. RG III will never be the same, after just one year. The next hit and blown-out knee will always be in the back of his mind... Michael Vick won't be able to count to ten in five years...
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2013 12:20 PM by USAFMEDIC.)
06-05-2013 12:16 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-05-2013 12:16 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(06-05-2013 09:49 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  With the success of Newton, Wilson, and RGIII, Manziel should have a chance at a career in the NFL if he keeps up his play.
There will be room for new QB's, as they way Newton and RG III play the game, they will not be starting in five years. RG III will never be the same, after just one year. The next hit and blown-out knee will always be in the back of his mind... Michael Vick won't be able to count to ten in five years...

The average career of a running back is less than 5 years. Running QBs have the risk of being hit running and being a target in the pocket. The knees, shoulders and head can only take so many hits by 350 pounders and still work the way they could before.
06-05-2013 12:50 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
bullet, Fran Tarkenton, the original running QB, played 18 years in the NFL...
(06-05-2013 10:34 AM)jml2010 Wrote:  
(06-05-2013 09:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(06-05-2013 08:28 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  
(06-04-2013 10:59 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Wow, pushing a QB of Yates' stature has me convinced that Keenum will be a quality third stringer!

Perhaps you should, once more, make another account. Your name makes no sense as you've denounce the Big East and its members. 07-coffee3
Well, considering there are just 32 NFL starting QBs in the entire world, I don't think young Keenum is doing too bad for himself. Even Aaron Rodgers rode the pine before he got his shot.

You should truly stick to Lacrosse, where no one will chop you down because they don't give a rats *$$.
Aaron Rodgers was sitting behind Bret Favre, one of the best QBs ever to play. Keenum is battling someone who has done nothing worthy of notice. There's a slight difference there, dude...

BTW, the lacrosse comment was totally uncalled for... 05-nono
Bit, TJ Yates led the Houston Texans to their 1st playoff berth in 2011 after Matt Schaub was injured.

Quote:Made his first career start, completing 12-of-25 passes for 188 yards including his first career touchdown pass, a 3-yard completion to Joel Dreessen, vs. Atlanta (12/4)
Completed 26-of-44 passes for 300 yards and two touchdowns at Cincinnati (12/11)
Led two 80-plus yard drives in the fourth quarter including throwing a 6-yard touchdown pass to Kevin Walter with two seconds remaining to complete the comeback that clinched the AFC South Division title against the Bengals
Earned NFL Rookie of the Week honors for his performance in Cincinnati in Week 14
Completed his first eight pass attempts and finished the game 19-of-30 for 212 yards with no touchdowns and two interceptions vs. Carolina (12/18)
Completed 13-of-16 passes for 132 yards and a 101.0 passer rating at Indianapols (12/22)
Started for the fifth time and completed all four of his pass attempts for 47 yards before leaving the game early in the first quarter vs. Tennessee (1/1/12)
Made his postseason debut where he completed 11-of-20 passes for 159 yards, including a 40-yard touchdown pass to Andre Johnson in AFC Wild Card Playoff vs. Cincinnati (1/7/12)
Completed 17-of-35 passes for 184 yards and threw three interceptions in AFC Divisional Playoff at Baltimore (1/15/12)

I have no idea if Keenum is better than Yates but I think Yates has been a worthy back up to Matt Schaub. I know others won't like it because their hometown QB is 3rd string but it is what it is. Hey, did you know Yates has the same number of playoff wins as Tony Romo. 05-stirthepot
My point still stands. None of them is equal to Bret Favre, the only man to win the NFL MVP award 3 years in a row. Aaron Rodgers himself is rated above either Schaub or Yates, and may end up being more highly regarded than Favre, when all is said and done...
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2013 01:49 PM by bitcruncher.)
06-05-2013 01:42 PM
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Jericho Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
Not really sure why anyone is comparing Keenum to Rodgers. Rodgers was a first round pick. Keenum went undrafted. Is there anything to suggest Keenum will do anything more than countless young QBs who latched on in the league for a year or two before fading away?


Getting back on topic, I'm sure the SEC helps land recruits. although interestingly not many top QBs have come out of the conference. Wilson, Luck, Griffin, and Kaepernick are viewed as some of the best young QBs and none played in the SEC. Looking at this year's draft, none of the top guys came from the SEC. The best guys in recent memory appear to be Newton and Matt Stafford. It's something, but hardly way better than anyone or even the best.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2013 04:52 PM by Jericho.)
06-08-2013 04:49 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-08-2013 04:49 PM)Jericho Wrote:  Not really sure why anyone is comparing Keenum to Rodgers. Rodgers was a first round pick. Keenum went undrafted. Is there anything to suggest Keenum will do anything more than countless young QBs who latched on in the league for a year or two before fading away?


Getting back on topic, I'm sure the SEC helps land recruits. although interestingly not many top QBs have come out of the conference. Wilson, Luck, Griffin, and Kaepernick are viewed as some of the best young QBs and none played in the SEC. Looking at this year's draft, none of the top guys came from the SEC. The best guys in recent memory appear to be Newton and Matt Stafford. It's something, but hardly way better than anyone or even the best.

Things are cyclical. The QBs, on average, in the SEC the last couple of years, have been pretty bad. Around 2008-9, they had a lot of good QBs.
06-08-2013 09:38 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
[quote='bitcruncher' pid='9385867' dateline='1370457772']
bullet, Fran Tarkenton, the original running QB, played 18 years in the NFL...[

Fran wasn't a running QB. He was a scrambler. There is a big difference. He ran so he could have time to pass. He was one of the leading passers of all time in the NFL. He ran to get away from defenders, not to gain yards.
06-08-2013 09:42 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-08-2013 09:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-05-2013 01:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  bullet, Fran Tarkenton, the original running QB, played 18 years in the NFL...
Fran wasn't a running QB. He was a scrambler. There is a big difference. He ran so he could have time to pass. He was one of the leading passers of all time in the NFL. He ran to get away from defenders, not to gain yards.
Tarkenton had 3,674 rushing yards in his career, still in the top 10 among rushing QBs in NFL history. So while he did scramble around to throw, he ran the ball when he saw the opportunity...
06-08-2013 09:55 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-08-2013 09:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  [quote='bitcruncher' pid='9385867' dateline='1370457772']
bullet, Fran Tarkenton, the original running QB, played 18 years in the NFL...[

Fran wasn't a running QB. He was a scrambler. There is a big difference. He ran so he could have time to pass. He was one of the leading passers of all time in the NFL. He ran to get away from defenders, not to gain yards.

Tarkenton wasn't the first successful rushing QB -- even if we're just talking about post-WW2 NFL players, Bobby Layne has that distinction.

But Tarkenton has the fourth-highest total of career rushing yardage among NFL QBs. Mike Vick, Randall Cunningham, and Steve Young are 1-2-3.
06-08-2013 10:03 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
Wasn't aware he was that high on the list. I mainly remember him running around making defenders dizzy before he passed or ran out of bounds. He was fun to watch.

He was definitely not a Vick, Cunningham, Vince Young or Cam Newton type runner who were more likely to take punishment. Manziel has an uncanny ability to avoid big hits, but still runs more like a Vick, et. al. than a Fran. Don't think that skill will be as successful in avoiding hits with the faster NFL defenders.

And still over 18 years, 14 games a year (maybe fewer in his first couple of seasons before they went to 14 games), 3,674 yards is just 15 yards a game.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2013 10:20 PM by bullet.)
06-08-2013 10:16 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-08-2013 10:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  Wasn't aware he was that high on the list. I mainly remember him running around making defenders dizzy before he passed or ran out of bounds. He was fun to watch.

He was definitely not a Vick, Cunningham, Vince Young or Cam Newton type runner who were more likely to take punishment. Manziel has an uncanny ability to avoid big hits, but still runs more like a Vick, et. al. than a Fran. Don't think that skill will be as successful in avoiding hits with the faster NFL defenders.

And still over 18 years, 14 games a year (maybe fewer in his first couple of seasons before they went to 14 games), 3,674 yards is just 15 yards a game.
A quarterback should only run to get out of trouble, or if there is an insanely big hole.
06-08-2013 11:05 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-08-2013 11:05 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(06-08-2013 10:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  Wasn't aware he was that high on the list. I mainly remember him running around making defenders dizzy before he passed or ran out of bounds. He was fun to watch.

He was definitely not a Vick, Cunningham, Vince Young or Cam Newton type runner who were more likely to take punishment. Manziel has an uncanny ability to avoid big hits, but still runs more like a Vick, et. al. than a Fran. Don't think that skill will be as successful in avoiding hits with the faster NFL defenders.

And still over 18 years, 14 games a year (maybe fewer in his first couple of seasons before they went to 14 games), 3,674 yards is just 15 yards a game.
A quarterback should only run to get out of trouble, or if there is an insanely big hole.

Most QBs, yes. Cam Newton, though, weighs 245 -- more than every RB who ran for 1,000 yards last year. Of those RBs, only Steven Jackson (240) is even within 20 pounds of Newton's weight.

Also, if you forbade Newton or RG3 from running, you'd take away much of their effectiveness. The possibility of getting burned by a QB run makes pass defenses less aggressive. It would be a mistake to try to turn either of those guys into Peyton Manning.
06-08-2013 11:16 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-08-2013 11:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-08-2013 11:05 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(06-08-2013 10:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  Wasn't aware he was that high on the list. I mainly remember him running around making defenders dizzy before he passed or ran out of bounds. He was fun to watch.

He was definitely not a Vick, Cunningham, Vince Young or Cam Newton type runner who were more likely to take punishment. Manziel has an uncanny ability to avoid big hits, but still runs more like a Vick, et. al. than a Fran. Don't think that skill will be as successful in avoiding hits with the faster NFL defenders.

And still over 18 years, 14 games a year (maybe fewer in his first couple of seasons before they went to 14 games), 3,674 yards is just 15 yards a game.
A quarterback should only run to get out of trouble, or if there is an insanely big hole.

Most QBs, yes. Cam Newton, though, weighs 245 -- more than every RB who ran for 1,000 yards last year. Of those RBs, only Steven Jackson (240) is even within 20 pounds of Newton's weight.

Also, if you forbade Newton or RG3 from running, you'd take away much of their effectiveness. The possibility of getting burned by a QB run makes pass defenses less aggressive. It would be a mistake to try to turn either of those guys into Peyton Manning.
I agree they can't be changed. Philly tried to make Vick a pocket guy and have almost gotten him killed. That said, running will expose knees and shorten careers, and it will eventually get to Cam Newton too. QB's need to learn to get their reads down field... if you are running you are not looking. There is always a safety valve for the blitz. Ours was Marshall Faulk in St Louis.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2013 11:53 PM by USAFMEDIC.)
06-08-2013 11:51 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-08-2013 11:51 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(06-08-2013 11:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-08-2013 11:05 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(06-08-2013 10:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  Wasn't aware he was that high on the list. I mainly remember him running around making defenders dizzy before he passed or ran out of bounds. He was fun to watch.

He was definitely not a Vick, Cunningham, Vince Young or Cam Newton type runner who were more likely to take punishment. Manziel has an uncanny ability to avoid big hits, but still runs more like a Vick, et. al. than a Fran. Don't think that skill will be as successful in avoiding hits with the faster NFL defenders.

And still over 18 years, 14 games a year (maybe fewer in his first couple of seasons before they went to 14 games), 3,674 yards is just 15 yards a game.
A quarterback should only run to get out of trouble, or if there is an insanely big hole.
Most QBs, yes. Cam Newton, though, weighs 245 -- more than every RB who ran for 1,000 yards last year. Of those RBs, only Steven Jackson (240) is even within 20 pounds of Newton's weight.

Also, if you forbade Newton or RG3 from running, you'd take away much of their effectiveness. The possibility of getting burned by a QB run makes pass defenses less aggressive. It would be a mistake to try to turn either of those guys into Peyton Manning.
I agree they can't be changed. Philly tried to make Vick a pocket guy and have almost gotten him killed. That said, running will expose knees and shorten careers, and it will eventually get to Cam Newton too. QB's need to learn to get their reads down field... if you are running you are not looking. There is always a safety valve for the blitz. Ours was Marshall Faulk in St Louis.
St. Louis has a new one in Tavon Austin... 04-rock
06-09-2013 09:12 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Aggies Land QB Kyle Allen - SEC a big factor.
(06-05-2013 01:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  bullet, Fran Tarkenton, the original running QB, played 18 years in the NFL...

Tarkenton was a scrambler who ran away from hits often because he was pressured.
06-09-2013 11:52 AM
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