(06-15-2013 03:52 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  It has happened before, so it can certainly happen again.

The only difference is that now the shoe is on the other foot so NOW it's unfair.

Listening to you is like listening Baylor fans when the Big 12 was falling apart and they were crying about how leaving them behind would be unfair, unconscionable and how they would go to the state and the courts and fight it from happening...even though they had no qualms about doing the exact same thing to Rice, SMU and UH in 1995.

This coming from an aTm fan? Are you serious? You guys cried like little girls with skinned knees about the Longwhorns, FOR DECADES! Who has forgotten where they came from? Hypocrit. I'm done talking to your ignorant a$$.

(06-15-2013 12:47 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  I think it is a good thing when the larger schools play their warm up games with other schools within the state. Helps the little guys and keeps the money in the state.

I agree.

(06-15-2013 03:50 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-15-2013 03:31 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(06-15-2013 03:22 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-15-2013 02:47 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(06-15-2013 01:39 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  His point isn't ridiculous. It's valid to the point. Why is what happened in 1978 NOT relevant to a possible future move by the larger schools?

Once again, the contrarian brothers in action. It's not relevant because its in the past, to which no argument you or I can make that would change how it went down. Do I think it was unfair? I dot really know, because i haven't researched it, and I'm not going to try and BS my way through it, but once again, none of our opinions will change the past.

Also if you think the split in 1978 was unfair, then why are you arguing that a split now would be fair? I doubt you'll answer that question directly as it doesnt support your argument. You two put your heads together and get back to me with a coherent response.

In case you've never heard of Arnold Toynbee, he was a British historian who showed how history tends to repeat itself over and over. His treatise dealt with civilizations. But his analysis applies to more than just civilizations. So just because something happens to be in the past, that doesn't make it irrelevant to present or future events. History is a cyclic process, and it could be about to repeat itself...

Whether I think what happened in 1978 is fair or unfair isn't relevant to the matter at hand either. After all, why should I give you my opinion on some past event you aren't even willing to research...

Nice spin, but i said I haven't researched it, never did I say I wasn't willing. Once again you parse words to fit your story. And anyone who hasn't lived under a rock knows the saying the history is doomed to repeat itself, but that is a convenient out for your argument. You two posed the question of whether I thought he split in 1978 was fair, to which I responded I don't know, but neither you or I can change it. Unless you are now saying the split shouldnt occur now, because the 1978 split was unfair. Is that what you're saying? Nice to see you can be open to change. Well done sir.

How you managed to get that out of what I said can only be attributed to the faulty logic you've used throughout this thread...

Let me clue you in on something. Major college football is an exclusive club. By their very nature, exclusive clubs tend to exclude, and they become more exclusive as time goes by. They don't suddenly become inclusive. Quite the opposite, in fact...

I've believed the major college football programs would break away from the rest since the formation of the CFA. Nothing that's happened in the interim has changed my mind on that...

What a condescending piece of garbage that post is. Sometimes talking to you is a complete waste of time.

Glad you've decided to finally STFU

Your entire argument is "it's not fair because this time its MY team that wouldn't get to come along!"

(06-15-2013 04:27 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Glad you've decided to finally STFU

Your entire argument is "it's not fair because this time its MY team that wouldn't get to come along!"

so you don't argue that aTm is just about the whiniest group of girls that's ever disgraced the world of CFB? Good to hear, admitting the problem exists is the first step to recovery. Douche

You can try to derail all you want. It doesn't change that you G5 schools were just fine with telling the FCS "tough luck" but now that might be you NOW we have to take a step back and talk about "fairness"

Again, you just don't see the hypocrisy.

You want UCF to be elevated to the same status as FSU and UF even if that means fighting to hold them back so that UCF can still be with them. But the other Florida teams? You had no problem leaving the FCS teams behind in 1978.

Just admit you are desperate to keep the status quo and are willing to do anything to keep it and stop pretending you have any moral high ground here.

I would respect you all if you'd just drop the "fairness" pretense and say "a split is not in our best interest and will hurt our budgets and fan support so we will do anything and everything possible to keep the perception that we are still part of the big boy club"

(06-15-2013 04:53 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Again, you just don't see the hypocrisy.

You want UCF to be elevated to the same status as FSU and UF even if that means fighting to hold them back so that UCF can still be with them. But the other Florida teams? You had no problem leaving the FCS teams behind in 1978.

Just admit you are desperate to keep the status quo and are willing to do anything to keep it and stop pretending you have any moral high ground here.

I would respect you all if you'd just drop the "fairness" pretense and say "a split is not in our best interest and will hurt our budgets and fan support so we will do anything and everything possible to keep the perception that we are still part of the big boy club"

Wow, fiction can be fun. This isn't about UCF man. You keep looking at my avatar and think that this is all I'm about. I'm an OU Sooner grad and lifetime fan, and I still feel the blockage by P5 schools are unfair. Get your facts straight. You keep pounding down the same untruths. It won't change the facts. And once again, fairness is your word, not mine. Look for a post where I said it was unfair. I said blocking access to in-state schools is unfair. You've lost and you don't even know it.

Would that be the same OU whose lawsuit against the NCAA is the very reason we have the unequal system we have today?

Like I said, drop your non-existant moral high ground argument and just say "We desperately need the money and attention that comes from association with the P5"

(06-15-2013 05:33 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Would that be the same OU whose lawsuit against the NCAA is the very reason we have the unequal system we have today?

Like I said, drop your non-existant moral high ground argument and just say "We desperately need the money and attention that comes from association with the P5"

Yes, that OU. I've never pretended to have any "moral high ground". And yes, the G5, specifically the AAC do need the P5 to stay relevant. But this whole thing started with your attitude towards AAC fans not being in love with the idea. So, we're supposed to like that the P5 is wanting to take their ball and go home? You really think we are supposed to like that?

There are several programs in the AAC that have committed A LOT of time, effort, and money to separate themselves from the rest of the G5. All with the hopes of playing big boy football. What is wrong with that? Why shouldn't every school aspire to play at the top of the heap? So, it's our fault because we want to play at the highest level? Isn't that why we play to begin with?

Now you claim we have no right to aspire to this level? That we should just shut up and take what scraps are given us? Would you feel that way if aTm was being snubbed in a similar manner? Hell no you wouldn't! You'd be mad as hell about it, and rightfully so.

I just don't get your attitude towards schools, and their fans, whose only transgressions are to show the initiative to compete with schools like aTm. Aside from your football program's history, show me one thing that aTm has that UCF doesn't? Tell me aTm's academics are better, because I'll show you the latest list that has UCF at #16 in the country, in APR. Tell me aTm is bigger, because UCF is second in the country in student body size (second only to Arizona State). Tell me aTm is near a large market, because UCF is in the #19 market in the country. Much larger than most SEC markets, and it's not even close. Tell me that aTm is in Texas, a football crazy state, and i'll show you that UCF is in the middle of Florida, some of the richest recruiting grounds in the country, and is definitely football crazy.

Tell me why I should be happy about being relegated (spelling?) to second class citizenship in the CFB world? Good luck with that.

Quote:Yes, that OU. I've never pretended to have any "moral high ground". And yes, the G5, specifically the AAC do need the P5 to stay relevant.

[bCongrats, you've gotten to the heart of the issue

Quote:There are several programs in the AAC that have committed A LOT of time, effort, and money to separate themselves from the rest of the G5. All with the hopes of playing big boy football. What is wrong with that? Why shouldn't every school aspire to play at the top of the heap? So, it's our fault because we want to play at the highest level? Isn't that why we play to begin with?

Sure you can aspire and sure there are a very few of you who have potential, but for every ECU there are even more Toledoes and New Mexico States and with more and more schools moving up from FCS every year and for every Boise who becomes a media darling there will be 10 Buffaloes wallowing in apathy but still demanding an "equal share". The schools that have already put in the time and money are not going to stick around forever while that happens.

Now, will entire G5 conferences be allowed to move up? Absolutely, positively not and I cant overstate that enough. Will individual schools get called up? Yes they will, just like they make the move now from FCS. I have no idea what the criteria or mechanism will be but it will be there, probably as independents.

Quote:I just don't get your attitude towards schools, and their fans, whose only transgressions are to show the initiative to compete with schools like aTm. Aside from your football program's history, show me one thing that aTm has that UCF doesn't? Tell me aTm's academics are better, because I'll show you the latest list that has UCF at #16 in the country, in APR. Tell me aTm is bigger, because UCF is second in the country in student body size (second only to Arizona State). Tell me aTm is near a large market, because UCF is in the #19 market in the country. Much larger than most SEC markets, and it's not even close. Tell me that aTm is in Texas, a football crazy state, and i'll show you that UCF is in the middle of Florida, some of the richest recruiting grounds in the country, and is definitely football crazy.

Well that might be the most cherry picked and dishonest comparison I've ever seen, but if it makes you feel like UCF is anywhere close to A&M in status, good for you! Hell by your definition UCF is a bigger, better, smarter and more popular school than OU ever will be.

Quote:Tell me why I should be happy about being relegated (spelling?) to second class citizenship in the CFB world? Good luck with that.

Nobody is saying you'll be happy. But the honest truth is the P5 aren't going to stay while FBS swells with new comers and old comers who haven't put in the time or money. The truth is we will not take entire G5 conferences with us and thats not negotiable. It means you and anyone else like ECU or USF or UConn will have to work to make yourselves attractive to the new subdivision and move up whether it makes you happy or not.

(06-15-2013 06:29 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

Quote:Yes, that OU. I've never pretended to have any "moral high ground". And yes, the G5, specifically the AAC do need the P5 to stay relevant.

[bCongrats, you've gotten to the heart of the issue

Quote:There are several programs in the AAC that have committed A LOT of time, effort, and money to separate themselves from the rest of the G5. All with the hopes of playing big boy football. What is wrong with that? Why shouldn't every school aspire to play at the top of the heap? So, it's our fault because we want to play at the highest level? Isn't that why we play to begin with?

Sure you can aspire and sure there are a very few of you who have potential, but for every ECU there are even more Toledoes and New Mexico States and with more and more schools moving up from FCS every year and for every Boise who becomes a media darling there will be 10 Buffaloes wallowing in apathy but still demanding an "equal share". The schools that have already put in the time and money are not going to stick around forever while that happens.

Now, will entire G5 conferences be allowed to move up? Absolutely, positively not and I cant overstate that enough. Will individual schools get called up? Yes they will, just like they make the move now from FCS. I have no idea what the criteria or mechanism will be but it will be there, probably as independents.

Quote:I just don't get your attitude towards schools, and their fans, whose only transgressions are to show the initiative to compete with schools like aTm. Aside from your football program's history, show me one thing that aTm has that UCF doesn't? Tell me aTm's academics are better, because I'll show you the latest list that has UCF at #16 in the country, in APR. Tell me aTm is bigger, because UCF is second in the country in student body size (second only to Arizona State). Tell me aTm is near a large market, because UCF is in the #19 market in the country. Much larger than most SEC markets, and it's not even close. Tell me that aTm is in Texas, a football crazy state, and i'll show you that UCF is in the middle of Florida, some of the richest recruiting grounds in the country, and is definitely football crazy.

Well that might be the most cherry picked and dishonest comparison I've ever seen, but if it makes you feel like UCF is anywhere close to A&M in status, good for you! Hell by your definition UCF is a bigger, better, smarter and more popular school than OU ever will be.

Quote:Tell me why I should be happy about being relegated (spelling?) to second class citizenship in the CFB world? Good luck with that.

Nobody is saying you'll be happy. But the honest truth is the P5 aren't going to stay while FBS swells with new comers and old comers who haven't put in the time or money. The truth is we will not take entire G5 conferences with us and thats not negotiable. It means you and anyone else like ECU or USF or UConn will have to work to make yourselves attractive to the new subdivision and move up whether it makes you happy or not.

*sigh* Someone once told me told me that winning an argument on the internet is like winning a race in the special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded. You've certainly put that to the test today. Let's just agree to disagree. You can respond with the last word if that keeps your ego in check, but i'm done.

Okay. Now that everybody has it out of their system, we'll end this. You guys can start up a new argument later, if you like...