Multiple reports say Denver will be joining the Big East in men's lax
http://insidelacrosse.com/news/2013/05/2...s-lacrosse

Will Air Force also follow so the Big East gains a travel partner for Denver? That way a weekend trip will allow two games.

Does this signal Johns Hopkins is Big Ten bound?

The rest of the ECAC lacrosse could be in a bind: Fairfield, Bellarmine, Hobart, Air Force (if they don't get in the Big East)

Lacrosse is too physical to play twice over a weekend. BTW, Denver is a great move for the BE.

Wow, that's interesting. Great for both Denver and the Big East. Bad for Air Force.

(05-29-2013 08:48 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Lacrosse is too physical to play twice over a weekend. BTW, Denver is a great move for the BE.

Friday / Sunday games are not unusual for Denver / Air Force with two teams coming in. Nor is Saturday / Monday, like in the lax Final Four.

Would have thought Denver to the Big 10 and Johns Hopkins to the ACC made more sense geographically.

If it's to be believed, Fairfield was said to be outbound, too. Likely to CAA, but possibly Patriot.

The Big East really needed this. Marquette was just hanging out there. I suspect AFA won't be far behind. Any chance AFA lax is the associate B1G member?

I could see the B1G go that route if they lose the Johns Hopkins lottery-Nebraska being in the Big 10 should have already helped the BTN make inroads in Colorado

(05-29-2013 09:13 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 08:48 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Lacrosse is too physical to play twice over a weekend. BTW, Denver is a great move for the BE.

Friday / Sunday games are not unusual for Denver / Air Force with two teams coming in. Nor is Saturday / Monday, like in the lax Final Four.

My buffoonery...I was thinking Saturday/Sunday. Yes Fri-Sun or Thurs-Sat would work.

(05-29-2013 09:59 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  The Big East really needed this. Marquette was just hanging out there. I suspect AFA won't be far behind. Any chance AFA lax is the associate B1G member?

How does having Marquette make this a better move? Milwaukee-DC is 100 miles shorter than Milwaukee-Denver.

And Air Force to Big 10 is never going to happen. Not only makes no geographical sense, but the Big 10 is an all-or-nothing league. The only reason they're considering Hopkins is because they only have 1 D-1 sport so they would be "all in." Plus, it's Johns Hopkins, and the Big 10 values those types of academics.

(05-30-2013 06:12 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Milwaukee-DC is 100 miles shorter than Milwaukee-Denver.

+/- 100 miles only really matters if you're busing. Once you get the team in a plane, it's a non-issue.

(05-30-2013 06:12 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 09:59 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  The Big East really needed this. Marquette was just hanging out there. I suspect AFA won't be far behind. Any chance AFA lax is the associate B1G member?

How does having Marquette make this a better move? Milwaukee-DC is 100 miles shorter than Milwaukee-Denver.

And Air Force to Big 10 is never going to happen. Not only makes no geographical sense, but the Big 10 is an all-or-nothing league. The only reason they're considering Hopkins is because they only have 1 D-1 sport so they would be "all in." Plus, it's Johns Hopkins, and the Big 10 values those types of academics.

The B1G said they were considering associate membership for lacrosse. It is VERY possible B1G won't get JHU; the Patriot, ACC, CAA, and Big East could still all be in this thing (and personally, I think Patriot's the most likely), so unless a B1G school instantly decides to sponsor men's lax in time for conference sponsorship, then, yes, other schools will have to be considered for Big Ten lacrosse membership.

...and that's all I meant about AFA, who is in a state that borders a Big Ten school state. You know that the PAC and Big Ten considered and approached Colorado back in the early 90's? That the Big Ten was willing to go out that way before? By your metrics, would you think the "next best" consolation prize for not getting JHU is Hobart, because they don't field other D1 sports? Bellarmine?

I'm not convinced Marquette's a 100% happy camper. But "filling in" the west strains the east as much as it does Marquette. At least it brings travel issues to more than just MU. Plus, Denver's a good program to have in the conference. And the Big East direly needed AQ.

(05-29-2013 09:47 PM)RUfan03 Wrote:  Would have thought Denver to the Big 10 and Johns Hopkins to the ACC made more sense geographically.

For whatever reason, this is a common misperception because a lot of people are looking at the overall all-sports memberships of each conference instead of focusing upon who actually plays lacrosse. When you actually look at where the Big Ten lacrosse members are located, it's more geographically compact on the whole for Johns Hopkins than the ACC. 3 Big Ten lacrosse members (Maryland, Penn State and Rutgers) are closer to Johns Hopkins than what would be the closest ACC lacrosse member (UVA). Those would all be bus trips. Ohio State and Michigan are the 2 plane trips that JHU lacrosse would need to take in the Big Ten, while they'd need to take planes to UNC, Duke, Syracuse and Notre Dame in the ACC.

The Big East is actually closer for Denver than either the Big Ten or ACC since the Big East's westernmost lacrosse member will be Marquette.

(05-30-2013 08:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 06:12 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 09:59 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  The Big East really needed this. Marquette was just hanging out there. I suspect AFA won't be far behind. Any chance AFA lax is the associate B1G member?

How does having Marquette make this a better move? Milwaukee-DC is 100 miles shorter than Milwaukee-Denver.

And Air Force to Big 10 is never going to happen. Not only makes no geographical sense, but the Big 10 is an all-or-nothing league. The only reason they're considering Hopkins is because they only have 1 D-1 sport so they would be "all in." Plus, it's Johns Hopkins, and the Big 10 values those types of academics.

The B1G said they were considering associate membership for lacrosse. It is VERY possible B1G won't get JHU; the Patriot, ACC, CAA, and Big East could still all be in this thing (and personally, I think Patriot's the most likely), so unless a B1G school instantly decides to sponsor men's lax in time for conference sponsorship, then, yes, other schools will have to be considered for Big Ten lacrosse membership.

...and that's all I meant about AFA, who is in a state that borders a Big Ten school state. You know that the PAC and Big Ten considered and approached Colorado back in the early 90's? That the Big Ten was willing to go out that way before? By your metrics, would you think the "next best" consolation prize for not getting JHU is Hobart, because they don't field other D1 sports? Bellarmine?

I'm not convinced Marquette's a 100% happy camper. But "filling in" the west strains the east as much as it does Marquette. At least it brings travel issues to more than just MU. Plus, Denver's a good program to have in the conference. And the Big East direly needed AQ.

Saying that the Patriot, CAA and Big East could get JHU for lacrosse is kind of like saying that the MWC could get Texas - on paper, anything could happen, but that's not realistic. I just don't see JHU giving up independence to joining anyone other than a power brand name conference (not just with respect to lacrosse, but a true power conference in the NCAA structure), which means either the Big Ten or ACC. My feeling is that the Big Ten is more likely because the auto bid in and of itself is actually much more critical to that league compared to the ACC (which means that contrary to popular belief, the Big Ten is the league that's more likely to provide the TV and revenue concessions that JHU is seeking).

(05-30-2013 08:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 06:12 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 09:59 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  The Big East really needed this. Marquette was just hanging out there. I suspect AFA won't be far behind. Any chance AFA lax is the associate B1G member?

How does having Marquette make this a better move? Milwaukee-DC is 100 miles shorter than Milwaukee-Denver.

And Air Force to Big 10 is never going to happen. Not only makes no geographical sense, but the Big 10 is an all-or-nothing league. The only reason they're considering Hopkins is because they only have 1 D-1 sport so they would be "all in." Plus, it's Johns Hopkins, and the Big 10 values those types of academics.

The B1G said they were considering associate membership for lacrosse. It is VERY possible B1G won't get JHU; the Patriot, ACC, CAA, and Big East could still all be in this thing (and personally, I think Patriot's the most likely), so unless a B1G school instantly decides to sponsor men's lax in time for conference sponsorship, then, yes, other schools will have to be considered for Big Ten lacrosse membership.

...and that's all I meant about AFA, who is in a state that borders a Big Ten school state. You know that the PAC and Big Ten considered and approached Colorado back in the early 90's? That the Big Ten was willing to go out that way before? By your metrics, would you think the "next best" consolation prize for not getting JHU is Hobart, because they don't field other D1 sports? Bellarmine?

I'm not convinced Marquette's a 100% happy camper. But "filling in" the west strains the east as much as it does Marquette. At least it brings travel issues to more than just MU. Plus, Denver's a good program to have in the conference. And the Big East direly needed AQ.

Marquette is just fine. The travel would have been there in lax if the BE stayed together (SU, RU) or with an affiliate (Denver). There is no issue with filling in the west, as MU never had a problem being the westernmost school in the mostly eastern league.

(05-30-2013 06:12 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 09:59 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  The Big East really needed this. Marquette was just hanging out there. I suspect AFA won't be far behind. Any chance AFA lax is the associate B1G member?

How does having Marquette make this a better move? Milwaukee-DC is 100 miles shorter than Milwaukee-Denver.

The point is rather that Denver to the Big East is neither here nor there for Marquette ~ they are a plane trip, and once you are on a plane, proximity to airport(s) is more important than +/- 100 miles.

(05-29-2013 09:47 PM)RUfan03 Wrote:  Would have thought Denver to the Big 10 and Johns Hopkins to the ACC made more sense geographically.

Geographically, either Denver or JHU to the Big Ten make more sense then either to the ACC. As the Captain noted, men's LAX is a (future) Big Ten Eastern Division sport, Ann Arbor is the furthest west its played.

The issue is institutionally. Historically, both the ACC and the Big Ten have been all-in conferences, though the history likely weighs more heavily on the Big Ten, so for both, the fact that LAX is John Hopkins' only Div1 sport would make the affiliate membership less of an issue. Getting Johns Hopkins is much more urgent for the soon to be five Big Ten LAX teams, since the ACC has been happy to play LAX with under six members, and six members to start a Big Ten sport is a long entrenched Big Ten rule, and since the ACC is full of LAX blue bloods, while Maryland would be the only blue blood among the soon to be five Big Ten LAX teams.

(05-30-2013 09:36 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 08:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 06:12 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 09:59 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  The Big East really needed this. Marquette was just hanging out there. I suspect AFA won't be far behind. Any chance AFA lax is the associate B1G member?

How does having Marquette make this a better move? Milwaukee-DC is 100 miles shorter than Milwaukee-Denver.

And Air Force to Big 10 is never going to happen. Not only makes no geographical sense, but the Big 10 is an all-or-nothing league. The only reason they're considering Hopkins is because they only have 1 D-1 sport so they would be "all in." Plus, it's Johns Hopkins, and the Big 10 values those types of academics.

The B1G said they were considering associate membership for lacrosse. It is VERY possible B1G won't get JHU; the Patriot, ACC, CAA, and Big East could still all be in this thing (and personally, I think Patriot's the most likely), so unless a B1G school instantly decides to sponsor men's lax in time for conference sponsorship, then, yes, other schools will have to be considered for Big Ten lacrosse membership.

...and that's all I meant about AFA, who is in a state that borders a Big Ten school state. You know that the PAC and Big Ten considered and approached Colorado back in the early 90's? That the Big Ten was willing to go out that way before? By your metrics, would you think the "next best" consolation prize for not getting JHU is Hobart, because they don't field other D1 sports? Bellarmine?

I'm not convinced Marquette's a 100% happy camper. But "filling in" the west strains the east as much as it does Marquette. At least it brings travel issues to more than just MU. Plus, Denver's a good program to have in the conference. And the Big East direly needed AQ.

Saying that the Patriot, CAA and Big East could get JHU for lacrosse is kind of like saying that the MWC could get Texas - on paper, anything could happen, but that's not realistic. I just don't see JHU giving up independence to joining anyone other than a power brand name conference (not just with respect to lacrosse, but a true power conference in the NCAA structure), which means either the Big Ten or ACC. My feeling is that the Big Ten is more likely because the auto bid in and of itself is actually much more critical to that league compared to the ACC (which means that contrary to popular belief, the Big Ten is the league that's more likely to provide the TV and revenue concessions that JHU is seeking).

JHU is institutionally more like the Patriot than the B1G and ACC. It's also where some of JHU's main rivals already reside. Much of what JHU "demanded" for conference affiliation had as much to do with the Patriot as it did the B1G and ACC:

-the Patriot has tossed out associate members in the past
-the Patriot is a big lacrosse conference with there being potential for further expansion in various ways (internally, as Boston has expressed interest in upgrading to D1)
-certain schools in the Patriot do have their games covered locally...JHU won't share what's theirs

I don't mean to discredit the chances of B1G membership, and I, too, don't think much of the CAA's, ECAC's, and Big East's chances, but I have a tough time seeing the B1G or ACC ever even approaching the subject of conference ejection for a lacrosse program like JHU.

But, even after all this, were the ACC to "score" JHU, who's the B1G's associate member?

(05-30-2013 11:33 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  JHU is institutionally more like the Patriot than the B1G and ACC.

False.

Hopkins is the largest research university in the US. The patriot league is largely comprised of schools with a focus on undergraduate education, not research. It makes more sense for the patriot league to add William & Mary than Hopkins.

The B1G is comprised of schools that focus on graduate level research and the ACC is a bit of mix.

(05-30-2013 11:52 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 11:33 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  JHU is institutionally more like the Patriot than the B1G and ACC.

False.

Hopkins is the largest research university in the US. The patriot league is largely comprised of schools with a focus on undergraduate education, not research. It makes more sense for the patriot league to add William & Mary than Hopkins.

The B1G is comprised of schools that focus on graduate level research and the ACC is a bit of mix.

Other than Wake Forest, what ACC school focuses on undergrads?

Hopkins and the Big Ten benefit in major ways if Hopkins joins the CIC. The ACC's academic side isn't nearly as organized. Can't see the JHU turning down the B1G, unless is wants separation from UMD. ACC lacrosse will take a big recruiting hit if it doesn't contain a MD team.

(05-30-2013 12:13 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 11:52 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 11:33 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  JHU is institutionally more like the Patriot than the B1G and ACC.

False.

Hopkins is the largest research university in the US. The patriot league is largely comprised of schools with a focus on undergraduate education, not research. It makes more sense for the patriot league to add William & Mary than Hopkins.

The B1G is comprised of schools that focus on graduate level research and the ACC is a bit of mix.

Other than Wake Forest, what ACC school focuses on undergrads?

Hopkins and the Big Ten benefit in major ways if Hopkins joins the CIC. The ACC's academic side isn't nearly as organized. Can't see the JHU turning down the B1G, unless is wants separation from UMD. ACC lacrosse will take a big recruiting hit if it doesn't contain a MD team.

Wake, Miami, and BC all focus more on undergrad than research.

It doesn't matter what conference Hopkins joins, the annual Hopkins/Maryland game will continue as it has the last 100 years.

ACC lax recruiting will do just fine. The caliber of ACC lax schools is high enough to attract students that don't care about staying in-state.

(05-30-2013 12:25 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  ACC lax recruiting will do just fine. The caliber of ACC lax schools is high enough to attract students that don't care about staying in-state.

When a Maryland athlete enrolled at Duke, UNC, or UVA, they were formerly guaranteed to play before friends and family in MD. Now that isn't true, unless JHU comes aboard. MD is still probably the premiere recruiting grounds.