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Legend
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-29-2013 07:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: Yes. It was a loan, not a payment...
But if they pay back the first $5 million, the other 5 is forgiven.
Part of the reason the Missouri exit fee was higher than A&M.
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05-29-2013 07:35 PM |
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quo vadis
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
IMO, when talking about revenue, the focus should be on media fees and bowl fees, as these are recurring payments and thus reflect the value of the conference to media and the broader public. Transfer and exit fees do not. Yes, my USF is going to get some nice checks from exit fees over the next few years, and this is real money we can use for stuff. But it tells us nothing about the value of USF, which is really what these comparisons between conferences is all about.
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2013 09:25 AM by quo vadis.)
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05-30-2013 09:24 AM |
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bitcruncher
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-29-2013 07:35 PM)bullet Wrote: (05-29-2013 07:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: Yes. It was a loan, not a payment...
But if they pay back the first $5 million, the other 5 is forgiven.
Part of the reason the Missouri exit fee was higher than A&M.
The loan payments don't start until WVU is getting 100% of the B12 TV payout in 2015...
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05-30-2013 09:55 AM |
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1845 Bear
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-30-2013 09:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote: IMO, when talking about revenue, the focus should be on media fees and bowl fees, as these are recurring payments and thus reflect the value of the conference to media and the broader public. Transfer and exit fees do not. Yes, my USF is going to get some nice checks from exit fees over the next few years, and this is real money we can use for stuff. But it tells us nothing about the value of USF, which is really what these comparisons between conferences is all about.
However differences in when contracts start also needs to be considered.
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05-30-2013 10:30 AM |
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quo vadis
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-30-2013 10:30 AM)S11 Wrote: (05-30-2013 09:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote: IMO, when talking about revenue, the focus should be on media fees and bowl fees, as these are recurring payments and thus reflect the value of the conference to media and the broader public. Transfer and exit fees do not. Yes, my USF is going to get some nice checks from exit fees over the next few years, and this is real money we can use for stuff. But it tells us nothing about the value of USF, which is really what these comparisons between conferences is all about.
However differences in when contracts start also needs to be considered.
Yes, that's why i said that comparing the ACC payout to the PAC and Big 12 payouts using just 2011-2012 is misleading, because that was a unique tweener year in which a new higher paying ACC contract had just kicked in while the big deals signed by the PAC and Big 12 had not yet kicked in.
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05-30-2013 10:46 AM |
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bullet
Legend
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-30-2013 10:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote: (05-30-2013 10:30 AM)S11 Wrote: (05-30-2013 09:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote: IMO, when talking about revenue, the focus should be on media fees and bowl fees, as these are recurring payments and thus reflect the value of the conference to media and the broader public. Transfer and exit fees do not. Yes, my USF is going to get some nice checks from exit fees over the next few years, and this is real money we can use for stuff. But it tells us nothing about the value of USF, which is really what these comparisons between conferences is all about.
However differences in when contracts start also needs to be considered.
Yes, that's why i said that comparing the ACC payout to the PAC and Big 12 payouts using just 2011-2012 is misleading, because that was a unique tweener year in which a new higher paying ACC contract had just kicked in while the big deals signed by the PAC and Big 12 had not yet kicked in.
What's difficult is comparing averages for contracts that start and end at different times. Just with the ACC contract, when they added Pitt and SU they increased their average value $4.2 million/year from $12.9 to $17.1. But if you assume a constant 4% escalation, the contract really only went up $2.5 million a year comparing the same years as they didn't count the year that had already passed and added 4 years on the end.
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05-30-2013 10:54 AM |
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quo vadis
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-30-2013 10:54 AM)bullet Wrote: (05-30-2013 10:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote: (05-30-2013 10:30 AM)S11 Wrote: (05-30-2013 09:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote: IMO, when talking about revenue, the focus should be on media fees and bowl fees, as these are recurring payments and thus reflect the value of the conference to media and the broader public. Transfer and exit fees do not. Yes, my USF is going to get some nice checks from exit fees over the next few years, and this is real money we can use for stuff. But it tells us nothing about the value of USF, which is really what these comparisons between conferences is all about.
However differences in when contracts start also needs to be considered.
Yes, that's why i said that comparing the ACC payout to the PAC and Big 12 payouts using just 2011-2012 is misleading, because that was a unique tweener year in which a new higher paying ACC contract had just kicked in while the big deals signed by the PAC and Big 12 had not yet kicked in.
What's difficult is comparing averages for contracts that start and end at different times. Just with the ACC contract, when they added Pitt and SU they increased their average value $4.2 million/year from $12.9 to $17.1. But if you assume a constant 4% escalation, the contract really only went up $2.5 million a year comparing the same years as they didn't count the year that had already passed and added 4 years on the end.
Good point.
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05-30-2013 11:16 AM |
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Dasville
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
The big picture is who are you aligned with. Payouts vary year to year by so many variables (not even going to name them all). Bottom line is, SEC and ACC are firmly aligned with ESPN and are all in. If you are apart of either of these conferences then your money is on ESPN to be the predominant player in the future regarding sports (no matter the medium).
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05-30-2013 11:46 AM |
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JMUDuke25
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-29-2013 02:01 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: (05-29-2013 10:40 AM)NJRedMan Wrote: (05-29-2013 07:57 AM)S11 Wrote: (05-29-2013 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote: Did you notice that the Big 12 only paid out $12M per team in '11-'12?
1- Your # for the Big 12 isn't accurate. It was 19 million per team to each of the 8 sticking around. This uses exit money but also is before the new ESPN deal kicks in so it won't likely drop at all in 12-13.
http://www.statesman.com/news/sports/col...eal/nRpCD/
2- The numbers (even with the ACCnetwork factored in) still favor us over the years in common. (assumed 3% increase on both gave a 3mm advantage to the B12 per team, the 2mm no network fee drops it to a 1mm advantage) The numbers reported are averages and our deal runs fewer years so without the back loaded extra years the gap grows.
3- Now that the GOR is signed all the ACC fans ragging on the Big 12 is petty and unnecessary. You guys are safe, we are safe, let it go.
Thats impossible.
True. Mainly because most of the people saying the B12 must expand are those who wish their schools were part of a P5 conference, and are on the outside looking in. ACC fans actually make up a small percentage of the posters in those threads, and I think they're mostly there to ...
People from the Big 12 and Big Ten have been trolling the ACC for well over a year. I don't think anyone should be crying about getting a little taste of their own medicine in return.
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05-30-2013 08:39 PM |
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bitcruncher
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-30-2013 08:39 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote: (05-29-2013 02:01 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: (05-29-2013 10:40 AM)NJRedMan Wrote: (05-29-2013 07:57 AM)S11 Wrote: (05-29-2013 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote: Did you notice that the Big 12 only paid out $12M per team in '11-'12?
1- Your # for the Big 12 isn't accurate. It was 19 million per team to each of the 8 sticking around. This uses exit money but also is before the new ESPN deal kicks in so it won't likely drop at all in 12-13.
http://www.statesman.com/news/sports/col...eal/nRpCD/
2- The numbers (even with the ACCnetwork factored in) still favor us over the years in common. (assumed 3% increase on both gave a 3mm advantage to the B12 per team, the 2mm no network fee drops it to a 1mm advantage) The numbers reported are averages and our deal runs fewer years so without the back loaded extra years the gap grows.
3- Now that the GOR is signed all the ACC fans ragging on the Big 12 is petty and unnecessary. You guys are safe, we are safe, let it go.
Thats impossible.
True. Mainly because most of the people saying the B12 must expand are those who wish their schools were part of a P5 conference, and are on the outside looking in. ACC fans actually make up a small percentage of the posters in those threads, and I think they're mostly there to ...
People from the Big 12 and Big Ten have been trolling the ACC for well over a year. I don't think anyone should be crying about getting a little taste of their own medicine in return.
That is a silly comment, dude, especially since you aren't even an ACC fan. You root for JMU. So as far as you're concerned, what I said fits, since you want to tear down the B12 to make yourself feel better about JMU's lot in life...
BTW, as a former BEast member, all WVU fans have been dealing with expansion issues non-stop for a decade now. It's nothing new to Mountaineer fans...
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05-30-2013 09:04 PM |
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4x4hokies
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-30-2013 10:30 AM)S11 Wrote: (05-30-2013 09:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote: IMO, when talking about revenue, the focus should be on media fees and bowl fees, as these are recurring payments and thus reflect the value of the conference to media and the broader public. Transfer and exit fees do not. Yes, my USF is going to get some nice checks from exit fees over the next few years, and this is real money we can use for stuff. But it tells us nothing about the value of USF, which is really what these comparisons between conferences is all about.
However differences in when contracts start also needs to be considered.
I disagree. Since all the tv deals are based on leaks and all involve different time periods. A more accurate reflection of a conference's benefits is distributions. What you should be considering is that some conferences pay expenses for various things (meetings, championships etc) while other conferences leave those up to the schools.
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05-30-2013 09:08 PM |
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1845 Bear
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ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-30-2013 08:39 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote: (05-29-2013 02:01 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: (05-29-2013 10:40 AM)NJRedMan Wrote: (05-29-2013 07:57 AM)S11 Wrote: (05-29-2013 07:14 AM)XLance Wrote: Did you notice that the Big 12 only paid out $12M per team in '11-'12?
1- Your # for the Big 12 isn't accurate. It was 19 million per team to each of the 8 sticking around. This uses exit money but also is before the new ESPN deal kicks in so it won't likely drop at all in 12-13.
http://www.statesman.com/news/sports/col...eal/nRpCD/
2- The numbers (even with the ACCnetwork factored in) still favor us over the years in common. (assumed 3% increase on both gave a 3mm advantage to the B12 per team, the 2mm no network fee drops it to a 1mm advantage) The numbers reported are averages and our deal runs fewer years so without the back loaded extra years the gap grows.
3- Now that the GOR is signed all the ACC fans ragging on the Big 12 is petty and unnecessary. You guys are safe, we are safe, let it go.
Thats impossible.
True. Mainly because most of the people saying the B12 must expand are those who wish their schools were part of a P5 conference, and are on the outside looking in. ACC fans actually make up a small percentage of the posters in those threads, and I think they're mostly there to ...
People from the Big 12 and Big Ten have been trolling the ACC for well over a year. I don't think anyone should be crying about getting a little taste of their own medicine in return.
The Big 12 got it during 2011 over here big time. It happens, move on. You don't see us running down the Pac12 or B1G do you?
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05-31-2013 12:04 AM |
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1845 Bear
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ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-30-2013 09:08 PM)4x4hokies Wrote: (05-30-2013 10:30 AM)S11 Wrote: (05-30-2013 09:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote: IMO, when talking about revenue, the focus should be on media fees and bowl fees, as these are recurring payments and thus reflect the value of the conference to media and the broader public. Transfer and exit fees do not. Yes, my USF is going to get some nice checks from exit fees over the next few years, and this is real money we can use for stuff. But it tells us nothing about the value of USF, which is really what these comparisons between conferences is all about.
However differences in when contracts start also needs to be considered.
I disagree. Since all the tv deals are based on leaks and all involve different time periods. A more accurate reflection of a conference's benefits is distributions. What you should be considering is that some conferences pay expenses for various things (meetings, championships etc) while other conferences leave those up to the schools.
All factors should be considered
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05-31-2013 12:04 AM |
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quo vadis
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-31-2013 12:04 AM)S11 Wrote: (05-30-2013 09:08 PM)4x4hokies Wrote: (05-30-2013 10:30 AM)S11 Wrote: (05-30-2013 09:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote: IMO, when talking about revenue, the focus should be on media fees and bowl fees, as these are recurring payments and thus reflect the value of the conference to media and the broader public. Transfer and exit fees do not. Yes, my USF is going to get some nice checks from exit fees over the next few years, and this is real money we can use for stuff. But it tells us nothing about the value of USF, which is really what these comparisons between conferences is all about.
However differences in when contracts start also needs to be considered.
I disagree. Since all the tv deals are based on leaks and all involve different time periods. A more accurate reflection of a conference's benefits is distributions. What you should be considering is that some conferences pay expenses for various things (meetings, championships etc) while other conferences leave those up to the schools.
All factors should be considered
It depends on the issue you are trying to address. For example, if one wants to compare the public value of two conferences, it would make sense to look at what a media deal is paying to a conference in total and not actual disbursements, since if conference A takes 10% for administration and conference B takes 15% for administration, those are internal matters that don't impact public value. It would also be silly to factor in stuff like exit fees, for the same reason.
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05-31-2013 07:11 AM |
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JMUDuke25
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 1h
Big 12 schools get "in ballpark" of $22M per school, except for TCU & WVU, which receive half shares in year 1 @davidubben reports
Big 12 is dividing up 198 million. When WVU and TCU get full shares, that's under $20M per team. Yeah, they are clearly putting the ACC out of business. Good stuff.
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05-31-2013 01:08 PM |
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1845 Bear
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-31-2013 01:08 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote: Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 1h
Big 12 schools get "in ballpark" of $22M per school, except for TCU & WVU, which receive half shares in year 1 @davidubben reports
Big 12 is dividing up 198 million. When WVU and TCU get full shares, that's under $20M per team. Yeah, they are clearly putting the ACC out of business. Good stuff.
Nobody said that about this year. People did say the tv deal for the Big 12 is likely to bring in more than the ACC's over the mutual years in their respective contracts though which seems reasonable assuming a similar escalation % and the longer term of the ACC's deal.
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2013 01:30 PM by 1845 Bear.)
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05-31-2013 01:30 PM |
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jaminandjachin
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
That "vesting" period sucks.
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05-31-2013 01:57 PM |
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quo vadis
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-31-2013 01:30 PM)S11 Wrote: (05-31-2013 01:08 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote: Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 1h
Big 12 schools get "in ballpark" of $22M per school, except for TCU & WVU, which receive half shares in year 1 @davidubben reports
Big 12 is dividing up 198 million. When WVU and TCU get full shares, that's under $20M per team. Yeah, they are clearly putting the ACC out of business. Good stuff.
Nobody said that about this year. People did say the tv deal for the Big 12 is likely to bring in more than the ACC's over the mutual years in their respective contracts though which seems reasonable assuming a similar escalation % and the longer term of the ACC's deal.
Yes, it's clear that the Big 12 deal over the next 10 years is for more money per school than the ACC deal. JMDuke has some mental block issues that prevent him from acknowledging that.
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2013 02:32 PM by quo vadis.)
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05-31-2013 02:31 PM |
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jaminandjachin
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-31-2013 02:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote: (05-31-2013 01:30 PM)S11 Wrote: (05-31-2013 01:08 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote: Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 1h
Big 12 schools get "in ballpark" of $22M per school, except for TCU & WVU, which receive half shares in year 1 @davidubben reports
Big 12 is dividing up 198 million. When WVU and TCU get full shares, that's under $20M per team. Yeah, they are clearly putting the ACC out of business. Good stuff.
Nobody said that about this year. People did say the tv deal for the Big 12 is likely to bring in more than the ACC's over the mutual years in their respective contracts though which seems reasonable assuming a similar escalation % and the longer term of the ACC's deal.
Yes, it's clear that the Big 12 deal over the next 10 years is for more money per school than the ACC deal. JMDuke has some mental block issues that prevent him from acknowledging that.
That would be the case unless the ACC creates a network. Then that advantage disappears. Even without the network, we're just talking a few million. I would say that's quite impressive for the ACC that will have SIX private schools (more than the other power conferences combined).
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05-31-2013 02:41 PM |
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1845 Bear
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RE: ACC Payout Averaged $16.9 M in '11-'12
(05-31-2013 02:41 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote: (05-31-2013 02:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote: (05-31-2013 01:30 PM)S11 Wrote: (05-31-2013 01:08 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote: Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN 1h
Big 12 schools get "in ballpark" of $22M per school, except for TCU & WVU, which receive half shares in year 1 @davidubben reports
Big 12 is dividing up 198 million. When WVU and TCU get full shares, that's under $20M per team. Yeah, they are clearly putting the ACC out of business. Good stuff.
Nobody said that about this year. People did say the tv deal for the Big 12 is likely to bring in more than the ACC's over the mutual years in their respective contracts though which seems reasonable assuming a similar escalation % and the longer term of the ACC's deal.
Yes, it's clear that the Big 12 deal over the next 10 years is for more money per school than the ACC deal. JMDuke has some mental block issues that prevent him from acknowledging that.
That would be the case unless the ACC creates a network. Then that advantage disappears. Even without the network, we're just talking a few million. I would say that's quite impressive for the ACC that will have SIX private schools (more than the other power conferences combined).
We are talking around 3mm before the ACC Network or the 2mm if they forego it.
The ACC network would have to be rolling in money for it to clear 3mm per team with ESPN likely holding 50% ownership of profits and a likely expensive buyback of rights from Raycom and FOX.
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05-31-2013 02:57 PM |
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