AL, I imagine WVU will have a few more alums with midwestern origins as time goes on. But we'll still have plenty of students that will come from our traditional footprint, which is western PA, western MD, eastern OH, northwestern VA, a smattering from NJ, as well as the State of West Virginia.

(05-27-2013 10:20 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 09:54 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 08:29 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 06:44 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 03:31 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  UConn would be elated to just get its arse kicked regularly in a P5 conference. I think WVU sets the bar a little higher in football. They want to WIN and win fairly big.

This isn't some insurmountable hurdle, but it's a problem. I think the biggest issue is still getting the recruiting to mesh with the schedule.

It's not that tough to get a kid from the southeast to come to WV so long as there are some southeast games on the schedule where his people can come see him. With an 8-game schedule and a few southeastern conference games, WV had a lot of success with southeastern recruits. But it's a tough sell to get a kid from the southeast to move to WV and then also play a southwest and plain states schedule.

I know there are plenty of exceptions to this general rule on WV's roster. But when you are trying to fill out a 100-man roster with 85 scholarships, it can take a toll. WV is going to need to recruit Texas and Oklahoma because half of their games are going to be against teams from those states every year.

As a fan of a team that had to "travel" for six years, it is really not a big deal, particularly for football. Football teams charter flights, so even traveling as far as WVU does is literally a handful of extra hours the entire year and not much expense. It's a little bigger deal for the minor sports that don't have meet or tourney formats, big still not a big deal.

Tell that to Oliver Luck. He's the one complaining about it.

The thing Oliver Luck was complaining about was the B12 rule that requires teams to return home after every road game. That was it. But you aren't able to understand that, since it's not what you want to believe. You've been told this over and over, yet you persist in denying what everyone with any real knowledge of the situation is telling you...

The Times West Virginian Wrote:“’We have asked that when reasonable they give us a two-game stay over on the road,’” (WVU athletic director Oliver) Luck revealed.

Twice this past season WVU was scheduled to go out on the road, play a Saturday game, fly home on Sunday, practice Monday and fly out again on Tuesday for a Wednesday game.

League rules do not allow them to stay on the road during that time, so they use up most of two days traveling.

Rather than doing that, they would prefer to play a Saturday-Big Monday on the road with a Sunday stay over, which would cut back on taking the long trip to and from Morgantown.

http://timeswv.com/wvu_sports/x657736988...el-changes

(05-27-2013 08:46 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 05:08 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 03:33 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  It's worse for the fans than the nice jet ride for the team... that's the problem. At least when the Mizzou fans road trip it to Florida and South Carolina, they also have Orlando and Myrtle Beach ... From Morgantown to Kansas? Not my idea of a fulfilling weekend... no offense to my KU friends but too far for just a football game.

A trip to Syracuse isn't any more exciting than a visit to Kansas. There's not much to do up there, unless you want to visit the Onondaga reservation, and Mountaineer fans have been going to Syracuse for over 50 years. At least you can visit Kansas City or St. Louis when you head out to Kansas...

The area from Buffalo to Syracuse offers a whole lot more to do than the State of Kansas dude. You act as though WV offers some sort of wonderland for visitors. Just to get to Syracuse from WV, you travel thru the Niagara Falls region near Buffalo and the Finger Lakes Wine region in Rochester. I would be surprised if those two areas of NY had fewer tourists and tourism dollars than the States of Kansas and WV combined.

Actually, the best way to travel from Morgantown to Syracuse is I-68E to I-81N. Going up I-79 to Erie isn't the best route, since it has more traffic and takes longer. So both Niagra Falls and Rochester are a long way out of the way, if one is traveling to Syracuse...

BTW, WV has tourist attractions that can beat anything you'll find in New York. New York just has more people...

New River Gorge at Grandview, WV
That bend in the New River is a mile wide, to give you a size perspective


Blackwater Falls
It may not be as impressive as Niagara Falls, but it's in a much more beautiful setting


Seneca Rocks
Beats the Gunks all to hell


Cass Scenic Railroad
Ride up to the top of Cass Mtn. on an old Shay steam powered locomotive, up the steepest grade any flat rail train travels


The Greenbrier
With 3 championship golf courses


New River Gorge Bridge
Take a whitewater tour down the New River and they all end under the bridge - 879 ft. above you


And don't forget the 3rd Saturday in October - Bridge Day - when base jumpers from all over the world flock to Fayetteville


Snowshoe Ski Resort
IMO the best ski resort on the east coast

Both have great attractions. Your pictures of WV speak for themselves.

In NY . . .

The Adirondack High Peaks. White water rafting on the Hudson. Great water falls at Niagara, Letchworth, Ithaca, and Au Sable Chasm. Para sailing on Lake George. The Thousand Islands. Wine trails from the Finger lakes to the Catskills. Cooperstown. The Erie Canal. Fly fishing on the Delaware River. Canoeing on the Black or Raquette Rivers or thenSt. Regis Canoe Area. Hiking the Northville-Placid Trail. Skiing down Whiteface Mountain.

Just for starters . . .

I was just touching a few of my favorite places in WV. I could have gone on and on...

I know NY has some nice tourist attractions. But most folks in NY have no clue as to what's in WV. Of course a lot of folks in NYC have no clue about the entire world outside a few blocks of where they live. But that's another story...

(05-28-2013 09:40 AM)panite Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 10:45 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  In football, travel isn't an issue. There's always a week between games, which gives you plenty of time to recoup any issues related to travel. There's no need to address that for football. It's not an issue there...

As for the Maryland game, it's not on the Maryland campus either. That game is in Baltimore. So the Terps have to travel away from their campus as well, and WVU fans will probably outnumber them in that stadium...

The main issue was in the other sports, especially basketball, mainly due to a B12 rule that required teams to travel home after each road game. Why couldn't the WVU basketball team stay on the road when they had 2 games scheduled very close together. There were several times WVU played 2 games in the same area separated by 2 or 3 days, but had to travel back to Morgantown between those games - due to B12 rules. That was the main issue for WVU, which the B12 has addressed by rescinding that rule, and adjusting the schedule somewhat to create more of such circumstances in minor sports...

Look at the baseball team. They traveled for almost every game, including home games, which were mostly scheduled in Charleston or Beckley. There were only 8 OOC games out of the 59 games WVU played that were actually played in Morgantown. WVU played every B12 game away from Morgantown. Yet WVU still managed to finish in 3rd place among the 9 B12 teams that played baseball, when they were predicted to finish last...

It didn't effect the women's soccer team either. They won the B12 Championship...

IMO you're making much ado about nothing. Why is what happens to WVU such an issue? I thought WVU wasn't worthy of ACC notice. But ACC fans seem to be the ones most concerned here. Although there are a few AAC fans hoping WVU fails, so they'll be in the same boat they are...

Why doesn't WV play their home games on campus. They have pretty nice facilities out there by the BB Coliseum if I remember correctly when we visited with my older son when he was looking at colleges several years ago.

Hawley Field has no locker rooms. The players had to dress for the game on the bus, and use the same restrooms the fans do. Upgrading the baseball stadium was one of the conditions for WVU's entry into the B12. The new stadium should be ready for the 2015 season, which means WVU gets one more season of B12 home games all over the State of West Virginia...

(05-28-2013 10:58 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  It will be interesting to see if WVU's out of state student population changes as a result of increased exposure in the west. Right now they get a lot of kids from the mid-atlantic and ohio valley.

That exposure in the sparsely populated Great Plains where the tradition is to stay home and attend State U is offset by the loss of exposure north of the Mason Dixon Line & east to the Atlantic.

Was that your point?

(05-28-2013 12:46 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  AL, I imagine WVU will have a few more alums with midwestern origins as time goes on. But we'll still have plenty of students that will come from our traditional footprint, which is western PA, western MD, eastern OH, northwestern VA, a smattering from NJ, as well as the State of West Virginia.

(05-27-2013 10:20 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 09:54 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 08:29 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 06:44 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  As a fan of a team that had to "travel" for six years, it is really not a big deal, particularly for football. Football teams charter flights, so even traveling as far as WVU does is literally a handful of extra hours the entire year and not much expense. It's a little bigger deal for the minor sports that don't have meet or tourney formats, big still not a big deal.

Tell that to Oliver Luck. He's the one complaining about it.

The thing Oliver Luck was complaining about was the B12 rule that requires teams to return home after every road game. That was it. But you aren't able to understand that, since it's not what you want to believe. You've been told this over and over, yet you persist in denying what everyone with any real knowledge of the situation is telling you...

The Times West Virginian Wrote:“’We have asked that when reasonable they give us a two-game stay over on the road,’” (WVU athletic director Oliver) Luck revealed.

Twice this past season WVU was scheduled to go out on the road, play a Saturday game, fly home on Sunday, practice Monday and fly out again on Tuesday for a Wednesday game.

League rules do not allow them to stay on the road during that time, so they use up most of two days traveling.

Rather than doing that, they would prefer to play a Saturday-Big Monday on the road with a Sunday stay over, which would cut back on taking the long trip to and from Morgantown.

http://timeswv.com/wvu_sports/x657736988...el-changes

(05-27-2013 08:46 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 05:08 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  A trip to Syracuse isn't any more exciting than a visit to Kansas. There's not much to do up there, unless you want to visit the Onondaga reservation, and Mountaineer fans have been going to Syracuse for over 50 years. At least you can visit Kansas City or St. Louis when you head out to Kansas...

The area from Buffalo to Syracuse offers a whole lot more to do than the State of Kansas dude. You act as though WV offers some sort of wonderland for visitors. Just to get to Syracuse from WV, you travel thru the Niagara Falls region near Buffalo and the Finger Lakes Wine region in Rochester. I would be surprised if those two areas of NY had fewer tourists and tourism dollars than the States of Kansas and WV combined.

Actually, the best way to travel from Morgantown to Syracuse is I-68E to I-81N. Going up I-79 to Erie isn't the best route, since it has more traffic and takes longer. So both Niagra Falls and Rochester are a long way out of the way, if one is traveling to Syracuse...

BTW, WV has tourist attractions that can beat anything you'll find in New York. New York just has more people...

New River Gorge at Grandview, WV
That bend in the New River is a mile wide, to give you a size perspective


Blackwater Falls
It may not be as impressive as Niagara Falls, but it's in a much more beautiful setting


Seneca Rocks
Beats the Gunks all to hell


Cass Scenic Railroad
Ride up to the top of Cass Mtn. on an old Shay steam powered locomotive, up the steepest grade any flat rail train travels


The Greenbrier
With 3 championship golf courses


New River Gorge Bridge
Take a whitewater tour down the New River and they all end under the bridge - 879 ft. above you


And don't forget the 3rd Saturday in October - Bridge Day - when base jumpers from all over the world flock to Fayetteville


Snowshoe Ski Resort
IMO the best ski resort on the east coast

Both have great attractions. Your pictures of WV speak for themselves.

In NY . . .

The Adirondack High Peaks. White water rafting on the Hudson. Great water falls at Niagara, Letchworth, Ithaca, and Au Sable Chasm. Para sailing on Lake George. The Thousand Islands. Wine trails from the Finger lakes to the Catskills. Cooperstown. The Erie Canal. Fly fishing on the Delaware River. Canoeing on the Black or Raquette Rivers or thenSt. Regis Canoe Area. Hiking the Northville-Placid Trail. Skiing down Whiteface Mountain.

Just for starters . . .

I was just touching a few of my favorite places in WV. I could have gone on and on...

I know NY has some nice tourist attractions. But most folks in NY have no clue as to what's in WV. Of course a lot of folks in NYC have no clue about the entire world outside a few blocks of where they live. But that's another story....

I know from personal experience that West Virginia has the best white water rafting in the Northeast. NY's Hudson River is #2. Then it's Maine.

In my experience, most people who live in Manhattan below Central Park and in Morningside Heights come from some place outside NY. I have no idea where the notion of the parochial insulated New Yorker comes from. the rest of the city and its suburbs are a mix.

(05-28-2013 12:46 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  AL, I imagine WVU will have a few more alums with midwestern origins as time goes on. But we'll still have plenty of students that will come from our traditional footprint, which is western PA, western MD, eastern OH, northwestern VA, a smattering from NJ, as well as the State of West Virginia.

(05-27-2013 10:20 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 09:54 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 08:29 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 06:44 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  As a fan of a team that had to "travel" for six years, it is really not a big deal, particularly for football. Football teams charter flights, so even traveling as far as WVU does is literally a handful of extra hours the entire year and not much expense. It's a little bigger deal for the minor sports that don't have meet or tourney formats, big still not a big deal.

Tell that to Oliver Luck. He's the one complaining about it.

The thing Oliver Luck was complaining about was the B12 rule that requires teams to return home after every road game. That was it. But you aren't able to understand that, since it's not what you want to believe. You've been told this over and over, yet you persist in denying what everyone with any real knowledge of the situation is telling you...

The Times West Virginian Wrote:“’We have asked that when reasonable they give us a two-game stay over on the road,’” (WVU athletic director Oliver) Luck revealed.

Twice this past season WVU was scheduled to go out on the road, play a Saturday game, fly home on Sunday, practice Monday and fly out again on Tuesday for a Wednesday game.

League rules do not allow them to stay on the road during that time, so they use up most of two days traveling.

Rather than doing that, they would prefer to play a Saturday-Big Monday on the road with a Sunday stay over, which would cut back on taking the long trip to and from Morgantown.

http://timeswv.com/wvu_sports/x657736988...el-changes

(05-27-2013 08:46 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 05:08 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  A trip to Syracuse isn't any more exciting than a visit to Kansas. There's not much to do up there, unless you want to visit the Onondaga reservation, and Mountaineer fans have been going to Syracuse for over 50 years. At least you can visit Kansas City or St. Louis when you head out to Kansas...

The area from Buffalo to Syracuse offers a whole lot more to do than the State of Kansas dude. You act as though WV offers some sort of wonderland for visitors. Just to get to Syracuse from WV, you travel thru the Niagara Falls region near Buffalo and the Finger Lakes Wine region in Rochester. I would be surprised if those two areas of NY had fewer tourists and tourism dollars than the States of Kansas and WV combined.

Actually, the best way to travel from Morgantown to Syracuse is I-68E to I-81N. Going up I-79 to Erie isn't the best route, since it has more traffic and takes longer. So both Niagra Falls and Rochester are a long way out of the way, if one is traveling to Syracuse...

BTW, WV has tourist attractions that can beat anything you'll find in New York. New York just has more people...

New River Gorge at Grandview, WV
That bend in the New River is a mile wide, to give you a size perspective


Blackwater Falls
It may not be as impressive as Niagara Falls, but it's in a much more beautiful setting


Seneca Rocks
Beats the Gunks all to hell


Cass Scenic Railroad
Ride up to the top of Cass Mtn. on an old Shay steam powered locomotive, up the steepest grade any flat rail train travels


The Greenbrier
With 3 championship golf courses


New River Gorge Bridge
Take a whitewater tour down the New River and they all end under the bridge - 879 ft. above you


And don't forget the 3rd Saturday in October - Bridge Day - when base jumpers from all over the world flock to Fayetteville


Snowshoe Ski Resort
IMO the best ski resort on the east coast

Both have great attractions. Your pictures of WV speak for themselves.

In NY . . .

The Adirondack High Peaks. White water rafting on the Hudson. Great water falls at Niagara, Letchworth, Ithaca, and Au Sable Chasm. Para sailing on Lake George. The Thousand Islands. Wine trails from the Finger lakes to the Catskills. Cooperstown. The Erie Canal. Fly fishing on the Delaware River. Canoeing on the Black or Raquette Rivers or thenSt. Regis Canoe Area. Hiking the Northville-Placid Trail. Skiing down Whiteface Mountain.

Just for starters . . .

I was just touching a few of my favorite places in WV. I could have gone on and on...

I know NY has some nice tourist attractions. But most folks in NY have no clue as to what's in WV. Of course a lot of folks in NYC have no clue about the entire world outside a few blocks of where they live. But that's another story....

I know from personal experience that West Virginia has the best white water rafting in the Northeast. NY's Hudson River is #2. Then it's Maine.

In my experience, most people who live in Manhattan below Central Park and in Morningside Heights come from some place outside NY. I have no idea where the notion of the parochial insulated New Yorker comes from. the rest of the city and its suburbs are a mix.

LOL at all the people who think West Virginia will suffer in the Big XII. On the contrary, I expect WVU to do good in their new conference. Was it easy to move from one conference to another? Absolutely not but like bit stated, the Big XII is addressing those issues to help WVU. They have exposure and recruiting access now to the Great State of Texas and have the privilege in playing in this great state which will result in better recruits who would otherwise have ignored WVU before.

Getting paid $26 million a year and have those "travel issues" is far better than schools like UTEP or Hawaii (and TCU in the MWC) that have to travel hundreds of miles to their nearest conference mate and getting paid peanuts.

(05-28-2013 01:24 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 10:58 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  It will be interesting to see if WVU's out of state student population changes as a result of increased exposure in the west. Right now they get a lot of kids from the mid-atlantic and ohio valley.

That exposure in the sparsely populated Great Plains where the tradition is to stay home and attend State U is offset by the loss of exposure north of the Mason Dixon Line & east to the Atlantic.

Was that your point?

I wasn't necessarily commenting on whether they are upgrading their exposure, but rather whether or not having weekly, high-profile exposure in a new part of the country will change/grow their applicant pool.

I would guess that any change will be to expand the geography (and volume) of their applicant pool, rather than to shift it west without growing the volume. A kid in western pennslyvania is just as likely to apply to B12 WVU as they were to Big East WVU. A kid in Texas or Kansas? B12 WVU is a school they may not have considered before.

Any chance the university pitched this as a potential benefit of switching conferences?

(I guess the exact same scenario could be applied to Maryland in the mid-west post B1G alignment)

(05-28-2013 01:33 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I know from personal experience that West Virginia has the best white water rafting in the Northeast. NY's Hudson River is #2. Then it's Maine.

In my experience, most people who live in Manhattan below Central Park and in Morningside Heights come from some place outside NY. I have no idea where the notion of the parochial insulated New Yorker comes from. the rest of the city and its suburbs are a mix.

I'd put the Ocoee River in Tennessee above the Hudson. I've been down both rivers. You should come down and try it sometime, especially when they open the whitewater course they built for the Atlanta Olympic games...

(05-28-2013 01:40 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 01:24 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 10:58 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  It will be interesting to see if WVU's out of state student population changes as a result of increased exposure in the west. Right now they get a lot of kids from the mid-atlantic and ohio valley.

That exposure in the sparsely populated Great Plains where the tradition is to stay home and attend State U is offset by the loss of exposure north of the Mason Dixon Line & east to the Atlantic.

Was that your point?

I wasn't necessarily commenting on whether they are upgrading their exposure, but rather whether or not having weekly, high-profile exposure in a new part of the country will change/grow their applicant pool.

I would guess that any change will be to expand the geography (and volume) of their applicant pool, rather than to shift it west without growing the volume. A kid in western pennslyvania is just as likely to apply to B12 WVU as they were to Big East WVU. A kid in Texas or Kansas? B12 WVU is a school they may not have considered before.

Any chance the university pitched this as a potential benefit of switching conferences?

(I guess the exact same scenario could be applied to Maryland in the mid-west post B1G alignment)

Thanks for the clarification.

The BC president was very specific 10 years ago in saying that their move to the ACC was partly motivated by an effort to follow their Catholic constituency as many of them were moving south - especially to the corporate centers in cities like Atlanta. I'm not sure that it has worked out as well as he hoped.

(05-28-2013 01:44 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 01:33 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I know from personal experience that West Virginia has the best white water rafting in the Northeast. NY's Hudson River is #2. Then it's Maine.

In my experience, most people who live in Manhattan below Central Park and in Morningside Heights come from some place outside NY. I have no idea where the notion of the parochial insulated New Yorker comes from. the rest of the city and its suburbs are a mix.

I'd put the Ocoee River in Tennessee above the Hudson. I've been down both rivers. You should come down and try it sometime, especially when they open the whitewater course they built for the Atlanta Olympic games...

Thanks for the suggestion. No doubt that Tennessee has better rafting than the Hudson. I was just restricting myself to the Northeast. It sounds like a trip worth taking. I love to get out on the water. The Snake River has been my best trip so far. Some day I want to make a week of it.

I also think the fact that the SEC took a hard look at WVU made the Big XII take notice...by far WVU was their best option. Does anyone know how far it is from the Big XII to BYU and Ogden Utah? A long long road trip.
[/quote]

Great point and often unmentioned. BYU is almost 900 miles from the closest Big XII school. By that standard. WVU wasn't such a bad deal for them as far as distance is concerned even if it's not a good deal WVU's travel situation.
[/quote]

BYU is in Provo, Utah. Ogden is north of SLC. Peolpe in Provo would be ashamed to be associated with the heathens of Ogden, and people in Ogden are glad that SLC provides a barrier from Provo weirdness leaching farther north. The cows in Logan (USU) are oblivious.

Also, WV is beautiful.

(05-28-2013 03:35 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 01:44 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 01:33 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I know from personal experience that West Virginia has the best white water rafting in the Northeast. NY's Hudson River is #2. Then it's Maine.

In my experience, most people who live in Manhattan below Central Park and in Morningside Heights come from some place outside NY. I have no idea where the notion of the parochial insulated New Yorker comes from. the rest of the city and its suburbs are a mix.

I'd put the Ocoee River in Tennessee above the Hudson. I've been down both rivers. You should come down and try it sometime, especially when they open the whitewater course they built for the Atlanta Olympic games...

Thanks for the suggestion. No doubt that Tennessee has better rafting than the Hudson. I was just restricting myself to the Northeast. It sounds like a trip worth taking. I love to get out on the water. The Snake River has been my best trip so far. Some day I want to make a week of it.

I've got a friend down here that I used to work with in Oak Ridge that's a real whitewater enthusiast. He takes his C1 down the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon every year. He and I have done the Ocoee, New, and Gauley together. But I've never made the trip down the Colorado with him. The wife isn't into camping, especially a week's worth in a desert climate, and there's no way I could go without her. She's never been to the Grand Canyon, and would be highly upset if I went without her...