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Alabama booster files ethics complaint over public officials buying football tickets without donations

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/...out_sports

I'd never bought a legislator before but now...

Roll Tide.

Many moons ago I was a member of Tide Pride, this was prior to UAB starting up sanctioned football.

Well, me & my buddy who was a big Alabama fan (who now ironically happens to be a father of one of the players on our softball team) each had tickets through Tide Pride.

We decided to try and get 2 more tickets for each of our wives & it ended up that we received no tickets - not any new tickets & not our existing tickets. We were dropped.

The article assumes all readers know about the Tide "Pride" program, but I assume in turn that a member has to cough up a donation (form the context, a sizable one) to get tickets to Big Games. Legislators are allowed to do so without donating.

If I have that right, then would the amount of the donation required but not tendered be a taxable benefit? Maybe "Roll Tide" needs to go in the IRS search engine too.

Tax law brought down Al Capone.

so sad.

I would recommend against arguing with the lower life forms on al.com.

(05-24-2013 03:46 PM)BlazingGoat Wrote:  so sad.

I would recommend against arguing with the lower life forms on al.com.

We have our lower life forms who can hold their own with them.

(05-24-2013 02:44 PM)Smaug Wrote:  I'd never bought a legislator before but now...

Roll Tide.

Well my & my brothers & sisters college money sure did, just ask my father

I love the statement where he says it's a university thing not an ethics thing - don't bite the hand that feeds you since after all they're getting free tickets out of it why should they do anything to stop that???

(05-24-2013 03:36 PM)58-56 Wrote:  The article assumes all readers know about the Tide "Pride" program, but I assume in turn that a member has to cough up a donation (form the context, a sizable one) to get tickets to Big Games. Legislators are allowed to do so without donating.

If I have that right, then would the amount of the donation required but not tendered be a taxable benefit? Maybe "Roll Tide" needs to go in the IRS search engine too.

Tax law brought down Al Capone.

Do you mean in terms of UA should pay taxes on it? UA is exempt from taxes, even the athletics department. Or do you mean the legislators that don't have to pay it? If it were a taxable benefit to them, then the ethics complaint should be valid (I think their and UA's argument would be that it's not a benefit to them since UA isn't counting on their books missed income from not getting their donation)

(05-25-2013 10:23 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 03:36 PM)58-56 Wrote:  The article assumes all readers know about the Tide "Pride" program, but I assume in turn that a member has to cough up a donation (form the context, a sizable one) to get tickets to Big Games. Legislators are allowed to do so without donating.

If I have that right, then would the amount of the donation required but not tendered be a taxable benefit? Maybe "Roll Tide" needs to go in the IRS search engine too.

Tax law brought down Al Capone.

Do you mean in terms of UA should pay taxes on it? UA is exempt from taxes, even the athletics department. Or do you mean the legislators that don't have to pay it? If it were a taxable benefit to them, then the ethics complaint should be valid (I think their and UA's argument would be that it's not a benefit to them since UA isn't counting on their books missed income from not getting their donation)

Legislators. The Alabama Ethics Act specifically states that tickets to college sporting events ARE items of value and not the product of a governmental entity.

(05-25-2013 12:17 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(05-25-2013 10:23 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 03:36 PM)58-56 Wrote:  The article assumes all readers know about the Tide "Pride" program, but I assume in turn that a member has to cough up a donation (form the context, a sizable one) to get tickets to Big Games. Legislators are allowed to do so without donating.

If I have that right, then would the amount of the donation required but not tendered be a taxable benefit? Maybe "Roll Tide" needs to go in the IRS search engine too.

Tax law brought down Al Capone.

Do you mean in terms of UA should pay taxes on it? UA is exempt from taxes, even the athletics department. Or do you mean the legislators that don't have to pay it? If it were a taxable benefit to them, then the ethics complaint should be valid (I think their and UA's argument would be that it's not a benefit to them since UA isn't counting on their books missed income from not getting their donation)

Legislators. The Alabama Ethics Act specifically states that tickets to college sporting events ARE items of value and not the product of a governmental entity.

right, but they're paying for the tickets. they are not receiving anything for the "donation" that they don't have to pay. I'm on your side, but I doubt that anyone in this state is going to allow that gravy train to dry up.

It certainly won't stop, but you can't tell me that the legislators aren't giving some mighty fine favors for the tickets.

The ability of the two major universities to "politic" Montgomery using the "free Iron Bowl" and other games' tickets to curry favor when the SETF is being divided each year is one K-12 can't match. Free tickets to the 6A Championship Game does not compete well with free Iron Bowl tickets that the legislators can sell for tax free cash on the secondary market EVERY YEAR. I doubt that very many of these legislator are dependent upon the two universities' largess to have tickets to the games anyways. I would suppose that most are on the "favored alumni / donor" list already. These free additional tickets are just "gravy" for them.

You are mistaken again BBF. You do not know much about taxes, and you choose not to look it up for yourself. The basic premise of a gift is that you are being given whatever the value of that item is to the donor. If I give you $50 cash, that is simple, it is a $50 gift. Other items get a little trickier. But basically, whatever the gift donor has in the gift is what the donee is transferred. If you paid $1 for a car and gave it to me, I would have $1 in the car. Anything gained on the sale of a gift is taxable.(If you can somehow sell the $50 cash I gave you for $51, you would owe taxes on the $1; if I sold the car you gave me for $10,000, I would owe taxes on the $9,999.00)

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Busi...Gift-Taxes

It's all here; scroll to the bottom.

Whether or not these officials break the law is another story, but they are not allowed to accept a ticket that somebody paid $100 for and sell it for $2000 and keep all that money tax free.(however, if sold at face value, there would be no tax liability on any of that cash)

(05-29-2013 11:46 AM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  The ability of the two major universities to "politic" Montgomery using the "free Iron Bowl" and other games' tickets to curry favor when the SETF is being divided each year is one K-12 can't match. Free tickets to the 6A Championship Game does not compete well with free Iron Bowl tickets that the legislators can sell for tax free cash on the secondary market EVERY YEAR. I doubt that very many of these legislator are dependent upon the two universities' largess to have tickets to the games anyways. I would suppose that most are on the "favored alumni / donor" list already. These free additional tickets are just "gravy" for them.

On the other hand higher ed doesn't have an AEA behind it so it's not K-12 getting killed like you put it out to be

(05-29-2013 12:22 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 11:46 AM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  The ability of the two major universities to "politic" Montgomery using the "free Iron Bowl" and other games' tickets to curry favor when the SETF is being divided each year is one K-12 can't match. Free tickets to the 6A Championship Game does not compete well with free Iron Bowl tickets that the legislators can sell for tax free cash on the secondary market EVERY YEAR. I doubt that very many of these legislator are dependent upon the two universities' largess to have tickets to the games anyways. I would suppose that most are on the "favored alumni / donor" list already. These free additional tickets are just "gravy" for them.

On the other hand higher ed doesn't have an AEA behind it so it's not K-12 getting killed like you put it out to be

Higher Ed DOES have AEA behind it. That is why when the papers wrote about all those making huge profits off the DROP, ALL of them were administrators in the Post Secondary and district superintendents (except for the FBHC at Troy).

Not a single one was a classroom teacher, but rather than change the law to exclude these administrators, they killed the whole program meant to encourage senior experienced classroom teachers to not retire at 25 to 30 years. I guess the legislature decided the state didn't need any of these experienced teachers anyways. AEA, if a union at all, is a "company union". It is dominated by the administrators who must figure out how to afford to pay for their district's schools which is why teacher pay / benefits are such a low priority. 2% this coming Oct.31st is not astounding since it is the first such raise since Oct.31st 2007 and may not reach its full 2% until 2015 (it was suggested that any raise be spread over 2 or 3 years). I know the AEA will want to claim credit for the raise, but I believe the impetus for the raise came from the business leadership which was embarrassed when recruiting new companies by the state's financial neglect of its classroom educators for over half a decade.

In regard to the "Iron Bowl" tickets, I would think the politicians report selling the tickets for face value ($70 in - $70 out) and since dealing with the ticket "brokers" in cash, no one is there to dispute the "record" unless someone "rats them out". This is an every year thing, not once every few years. The system is well established and works to enrich all involved.

(05-29-2013 12:09 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  Whether or not these officials break the law is another story, but they are not allowed to accept a ticket that somebody paid $100 for and sell it for $2000 and keep all that money tax free.

If you think many of those tickets get declared on their taxes I have one helluva deal on lakefront property under Smith Lake for you.

(05-29-2013 04:22 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 12:09 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  Whether or not these officials break the law is another story, but they are not allowed to accept a ticket that somebody paid $100 for and sell it for $2000 and keep all that money tax free.

If you think many of those tickets get declared on their taxes I have one helluva deal on lakefront property under Smith Lake for you.

And I've got a bridge

I never said they did claim that money if they sold the tickets, but they are breaking the law if they don't. You can run from the IRS, but you likely can't hide forever. And if you get caught, good luck.

(05-29-2013 02:51 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 12:22 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 11:46 AM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  The ability of the two major universities to "politic" Montgomery using the "free Iron Bowl" and other games' tickets to curry favor when the SETF is being divided each year is one K-12 can't match. Free tickets to the 6A Championship Game does not compete well with free Iron Bowl tickets that the legislators can sell for tax free cash on the secondary market EVERY YEAR. I doubt that very many of these legislator are dependent upon the two universities' largess to have tickets to the games anyways. I would suppose that most are on the "favored alumni / donor" list already. These free additional tickets are just "gravy" for them.

On the other hand higher ed doesn't have an AEA behind it so it's not K-12 getting killed like you put it out to be

Higher Ed DOES have AEA behind it. That is why when the papers wrote about all those making huge profits off the DROP, ALL of them were administrators in the Post Secondary and district superintendents (except for the FBHC at Troy).

Not a single one was a classroom teacher, but rather than change the law to exclude these administrators, they killed the whole program meant to encourage senior experienced classroom teachers to not retire at 25 to 30 years. I guess the legislature decided the state didn't need any of these experienced teachers anyways. AEA, if a union at all, is a "company union". It is dominated by the administrators who must figure out how to afford to pay for their district's schools which is why teacher pay / benefits are such a low priority. 2% this coming Oct.31st is not astounding since it is the first such raise since Oct.31st 2007 and may not reach its full 2% until 2015 (it was suggested that any raise be spread over 2 or 3 years). I know the AEA will want to claim credit for the raise, but I believe the impetus for the raise came from the business leadership which was embarrassed when recruiting new companies by the state's financial neglect of its classroom educators for over half a decade.

In regard to the "Iron Bowl" tickets, I would think the politicians report selling the tickets for face value ($70 in - $70 out) and since dealing with the ticket "brokers" in cash, no one is there to dispute the "record" unless someone "rats them out". This is an every year thing, not once every few years. The system is well established and works to enrich all involved.

If you think AEA is an advocate for higher education you are totally and completely out of touch with politics in Alabama. Higher ed and K-12 are mortal enemies when it comes to budget time in Montgomery.

(05-29-2013 11:30 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 02:51 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 12:22 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 11:46 AM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  The ability of the two major universities to "politic" Montgomery using the "free Iron Bowl" and other games' tickets to curry favor when the SETF is being divided each year is one K-12 can't match. Free tickets to the 6A Championship Game does not compete well with free Iron Bowl tickets that the legislators can sell for tax free cash on the secondary market EVERY YEAR. I doubt that very many of these legislator are dependent upon the two universities' largess to have tickets to the games anyways. I would suppose that most are on the "favored alumni / donor" list already. These free additional tickets are just "gravy" for them.

On the other hand higher ed doesn't have an AEA behind it so it's not K-12 getting killed like you put it out to be

Higher Ed DOES have AEA behind it. That is why when the papers wrote about all those making huge profits off the DROP, ALL of them were administrators in the Post Secondary and district superintendents (except for the FBHC at Troy).

Not a single one was a classroom teacher, but rather than change the law to exclude these administrators, they killed the whole program meant to encourage senior experienced classroom teachers to not retire at 25 to 30 years. I guess the legislature decided the state didn't need any of these experienced teachers anyways. AEA, if a union at all, is a "company union". It is dominated by the administrators who must figure out how to afford to pay for their district's schools which is why teacher pay / benefits are such a low priority. 2% this coming Oct.31st is not astounding since it is the first such raise since Oct.31st 2007 and may not reach its full 2% until 2015 (it was suggested that any raise be spread over 2 or 3 years). I know the AEA will want to claim credit for the raise, but I believe the impetus for the raise came from the business leadership which was embarrassed when recruiting new companies by the state's financial neglect of its classroom educators for over half a decade.

In regard to the "Iron Bowl" tickets, I would think the politicians report selling the tickets for face value ($70 in - $70 out) and since dealing with the ticket "brokers" in cash, no one is there to dispute the "record" unless someone "rats them out". This is an every year thing, not once every few years. The system is well established and works to enrich all involved.

If you think AEA is an advocate for higher education you are totally and completely out of touch with politics in Alabama. Higher ed and K-12 are mortal enemies when it comes to budget time in Montgomery.

AEA claims to advocate for all levels of education in this state. It only gets involved in how the SETF gets split between K-12 and Post Secondary if it feels one or the other is getting too much of the "pie". Post Secondary advocates like Joe Fine (I think that name will ring a bell with UAB folks) want to get as much of the SETF as they can get and they have the tools that appeal to legislators to get it. AEA as an advocate for classroom academic teachers is a toothless "paper" tiger in wolf's clothing (provided by the media and politicians). That is why the legislature was able to cut SETF annual per pupil funding from 2008 to 2012 by almost $1400 - the most of any of the 50 American states. During this period they also cut teacher take home pay by about 6% through insurance and pension deductions with no pay to take up the slack.

This session the legislature voted to provide state liability insurance in order to diminish the appeal of AEA membership. Because a teacher is individually liable for anything that happens to students under their supervision, this has some measure of appeal, particularly for science teachers who must conduct labs, even for "mainstreamed" Special Ed and EC kids.