To the power leagues' annual income? This is probably a stupid question, but is this in addition to the contract bowl payouts? For example, the ACC will split the $90 mil as well as the $27.5 mil from the Orange Bowl. Thanks.

(05-24-2013 09:56 AM)Villecard Wrote:  To the power leagues' annual income? This is probably a stupid question, but is this in addition to the contract bowl payouts? For example, the ACC will split the $90 mil as well as the $27.5 mil from the Orange Bowl. Thanks.

the P5 all average 51.5 million per conference over the 12 year contract& also keep whatever share they get from their contract bowl.

(05-24-2013 09:58 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 09:56 AM)Villecard Wrote:  To the power leagues' annual income? This is probably a stupid question, but is this in addition to the contract bowl payouts? For example, the ACC will split the $90 mil as well as the $27.5 mil from the Orange Bowl. Thanks.

the P5 all average 51.5 million per conference over the 12 year contract& also keep whatever share they get from their contract bowl.

Correct. Plus, there will be a $6M/team appearance bonus for every team that a conference places in the CFP and access bowls. It is conceivable that the XII/PAC could average over $100M/yr total from the system and because of the OB tie-in, the SEC and B1G could get as much as $130M in any given season.

(05-24-2013 01:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 09:58 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 09:56 AM)Villecard Wrote:  To the power leagues' annual income? This is probably a stupid question, but is this in addition to the contract bowl payouts? For example, the ACC will split the $90 mil as well as the $27.5 mil from the Orange Bowl. Thanks.

the P5 all average 51.5 million per conference over the 12 year contract& also keep whatever share they get from their contract bowl.

Correct. Plus, there will be a $6M/team appearance bonus for every team that a conference places in the CFP and access bowls. It is conceivable that the XII/PAC could average over $100M/yr total from the system and because of the OB tie-in, the SEC and B1G could get as much as $130M in any given season.

What is the OB deal? Do the SEC and B1G get a fixed amount every year regardless of whether one of their teams plays in the game, or do they get paid when their teams are in the game and not paid when their teams are not in the game?

(05-24-2013 02:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 01:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 09:58 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 09:56 AM)Villecard Wrote:  To the power leagues' annual income? This is probably a stupid question, but is this in addition to the contract bowl payouts? For example, the ACC will split the $90 mil as well as the $27.5 mil from the Orange Bowl. Thanks.

the P5 all average 51.5 million per conference over the 12 year contract& also keep whatever share they get from their contract bowl.

Correct. Plus, there will be a $6M/team appearance bonus for every team that a conference places in the CFP and access bowls. It is conceivable that the XII/PAC could average over $100M/yr total from the system and because of the OB tie-in, the SEC and B1G could get as much as $130M in any given season.

What is the OB deal? Do the SEC and B1G get a fixed amount every year regardless of whether one of their teams plays in the game, or do they get paid when their teams are in the game and not paid when their teams are not in the game?

The B1G and SEC each get $27.5 million OB payout, but only when they place a team in the OB. The ACC gets $27.5 million when they face an SEC or B1G team, but the ACC gets $41.25 million if an ACC team faces Notre Dame. Notre Dame gets $13.75 million when it plays in the OB.

So the answer is "no", the SEC and B1G do not get any payout from the OB except in years when they have a team in the game. BUT, the contract also specifies that in the 8 years (of the 12-year playoff deal) that the OB is not hosting a playoff, SEC and B1G teams must play in the OB at least 3 times each, while Notre Dame can play a maximum of twice in the OB.

So the contract does guarantee that the SEC and B1G will get a minimum of $81.25 million in OB payouts ($27.5 x 3), or an average of over $10 million per year over the 8 years, and it is possible that either the SEC or B1G can play in the game 4 or even 5 times, meaning more money.

In contrast, Notre Dame is guaranteed nothing, since the contract does not require that ND ever appear in the OB. Notre Dame can play in the OB only if (a) it is higher-ranked than the highest-ranked available SEC and B1G teams, and (b) if it has not already appeared twice during that time.

(05-24-2013 02:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 01:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 09:58 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 09:56 AM)Villecard Wrote:  To the power leagues' annual income? This is probably a stupid question, but is this in addition to the contract bowl payouts? For example, the ACC will split the $90 mil as well as the $27.5 mil from the Orange Bowl. Thanks.

the P5 all average 51.5 million per conference over the 12 year contract& also keep whatever share they get from their contract bowl.

Correct. Plus, there will be a $6M/team appearance bonus for every team that a conference places in the CFP and access bowls. It is conceivable that the XII/PAC could average over $100M/yr total from the system and because of the OB tie-in, the SEC and B1G could get as much as $130M in any given season.

What is the OB deal? Do the SEC and B1G get a fixed amount every year regardless of whether one of their teams plays in the game, or do they get paid when their teams are in the game and not paid when their teams are not in the game?

The SEC and B1G get $27.5M the years they play in the game (the ACC gets the other $27.5M those years). Each is guaranteed to play in the OB at least 3 times. The years ND plays, the ACC gets $41.5M and ND gets $13.5M, but ND is limited to only 2 appearances maximum, and has no minimum guarantee.

What I haven't been fully able to determine yet is how the OB $$ is split when the OB hosts a semifinal, but that has really not been officially announced by anyone as of yet for any of the contract bowls. It is assumed by many (myself included) that the contract conferences will keep their contracted $$ in those years. But the OB is a bit different, in that while the ACC is sure to get at least half, how the other half is split is a mystery. Maybe they keep the whole pot. Maybe they get half and give 20% each to SEC and B1G and 10% to ND. That's a detail that I have not seen released as of yet.

(05-24-2013 02:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 01:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 09:58 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 09:56 AM)Villecard Wrote:  To the power leagues' annual income? This is probably a stupid question, but is this in addition to the contract bowl payouts? For example, the ACC will split the $90 mil as well as the $27.5 mil from the Orange Bowl. Thanks.

the P5 all average 51.5 million per conference over the 12 year contract& also keep whatever share they get from their contract bowl.

Correct. Plus, there will be a $6M/team appearance bonus for every team that a conference places in the CFP and access bowls. It is conceivable that the XII/PAC could average over $100M/yr total from the system and because of the OB tie-in, the SEC and B1G could get as much as $130M in any given season.

What is the OB deal? Do the SEC and B1G get a fixed amount every year regardless of whether one of their teams plays in the game, or do they get paid when their teams are in the game and not paid when their teams are not in the game?

The B1G and SEC each get $27.5 million OB payout, but only when they place a team in the OB. The ACC gets $27.5 million when they face an SEC or B1G team, but the ACC gets $41.25 million if an ACC team faces Notre Dame. Notre Dame gets $13.75 million when it plays in the OB.

So the answer is "no", the SEC and B1G do not get any payout from the OB except in years when they have a team in the game. BUT, the contract also specifies that in the 8 years (of the 12-year playoff deal) that the OB is not hosting a playoff, SEC and B1G teams must play in the OB at least 3 times each, while Notre Dame can play a maximum of twice in the OB.

So the contract does guarantee that the SEC and B1G will get a minimum of $81.25 million in OB payouts ($27.5 x 3), or an average of over $10 million per year over the 8 years, and it is possible that either the SEC or B1G can play in the game 4 or even 5 times, meaning more money.

In contrast, Notre Dame is guaranteed nothing, since the contract does not require that ND ever appear in the OB. Notre Dame can play in the OB only if (a) it is higher-ranked than the highest-ranked available SEC and B1G teams, and (b) if it has not already appeared twice during that time.

And ND keeps it all, unlike conference teams.

Quo is correct. My bet is that we will see ND the maximum two times allowed, though.

(05-24-2013 02:16 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 01:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 09:58 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 09:56 AM)Villecard Wrote:  To the power leagues' annual income? This is probably a stupid question, but is this in addition to the contract bowl payouts? For example, the ACC will split the $90 mil as well as the $27.5 mil from the Orange Bowl. Thanks.

the P5 all average 51.5 million per conference over the 12 year contract& also keep whatever share they get from their contract bowl.

Correct. Plus, there will be a $6M/team appearance bonus for every team that a conference places in the CFP and access bowls. It is conceivable that the XII/PAC could average over $100M/yr total from the system and because of the OB tie-in, the SEC and B1G could get as much as $130M in any given season.

What is the OB deal? Do the SEC and B1G get a fixed amount every year regardless of whether one of their teams plays in the game, or do they get paid when their teams are in the game and not paid when their teams are not in the game?

The SEC and B1G get $27.5M the years they play in the game (the ACC gets the other $27.5M those years). Each is guaranteed to play in the OB at least 3 times. The years ND plays, the ACC gets $41.5M and ND gets $13.5M, but ND is limited to only 2 appearances maximum, and has no minimum guarantee.

What I haven't been fully able to determine yet is how the OB $$ is split when the OB hosts a semifinal, but that has really not been officially announced by anyone as of yet for any of the contract bowls. It is assumed by many (myself included) that the contract conferences will keep their contracted $$ in those years. But the OB is a bit different, in that while the ACC is sure to get at least half, how the other half is split is a mystery. Maybe they keep the whole pot. Maybe they get half and give 20% each to SEC and B1G and 10% to ND. That's a detail that I have not seen released as of yet.

Yep, much subject to debate. I've read that the ACC gets to keep all $55 million by themselves. If you combine that with the ND years the ACC would be right in the ballpark with the other conferences splitting $80 million ($40 million each per conference divided by x # of teams).

I don't think ND appearing twice will be a problem. Most higher ranked SEC/BIG teams will be in either the playoffs, Rose, Sugar Bowls.

(05-24-2013 02:30 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 01:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 09:58 AM)mj4life Wrote:  the P5 all average 51.5 million per conference over the 12 year contract& also keep whatever share they get from their contract bowl.

Correct. Plus, there will be a $6M/team appearance bonus for every team that a conference places in the CFP and access bowls. It is conceivable that the XII/PAC could average over $100M/yr total from the system and because of the OB tie-in, the SEC and B1G could get as much as $130M in any given season.

What is the OB deal? Do the SEC and B1G get a fixed amount every year regardless of whether one of their teams plays in the game, or do they get paid when their teams are in the game and not paid when their teams are not in the game?

The B1G and SEC each get $27.5 million OB payout, but only when they place a team in the OB. The ACC gets $27.5 million when they face an SEC or B1G team, but the ACC gets $41.25 million if an ACC team faces Notre Dame. Notre Dame gets $13.75 million when it plays in the OB.

So the answer is "no", the SEC and B1G do not get any payout from the OB except in years when they have a team in the game. BUT, the contract also specifies that in the 8 years (of the 12-year playoff deal) that the OB is not hosting a playoff, SEC and B1G teams must play in the OB at least 3 times each, while Notre Dame can play a maximum of twice in the OB.

So the contract does guarantee that the SEC and B1G will get a minimum of $81.25 million in OB payouts ($27.5 x 3), or an average of over $10 million per year over the 8 years, and it is possible that either the SEC or B1G can play in the game 4 or even 5 times, meaning more money.

In contrast, Notre Dame is guaranteed nothing, since the contract does not require that ND ever appear in the OB. Notre Dame can play in the OB only if (a) it is higher-ranked than the highest-ranked available SEC and B1G teams, and (b) if it has not already appeared twice during that time.

And ND keeps it all, unlike conference teams.

Quo is correct. My bet is that we will see ND the maximum two times allowed, though.

As I've said, in the new system Notre Dame's guaranteed money has changed very little. Under the BCS, ND was guaranteed about $1.3 million no matter how the team did on the field. Under the playoff system, that rises to about $4 million. But after that, ND is strictly on a commission basis: Win big and earn spots in the playoffs and OB and Notre Dame will make a fortune, but if ND has Weis/Davie/Willingham-type seasons then it will make considerably less than the typical P5 team.

(05-24-2013 02:41 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:30 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 01:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Correct. Plus, there will be a $6M/team appearance bonus for every team that a conference places in the CFP and access bowls. It is conceivable that the XII/PAC could average over $100M/yr total from the system and because of the OB tie-in, the SEC and B1G could get as much as $130M in any given season.

What is the OB deal? Do the SEC and B1G get a fixed amount every year regardless of whether one of their teams plays in the game, or do they get paid when their teams are in the game and not paid when their teams are not in the game?

The B1G and SEC each get $27.5 million OB payout, but only when they place a team in the OB. The ACC gets $27.5 million when they face an SEC or B1G team, but the ACC gets $41.25 million if an ACC team faces Notre Dame. Notre Dame gets $13.75 million when it plays in the OB.

So the answer is "no", the SEC and B1G do not get any payout from the OB except in years when they have a team in the game. BUT, the contract also specifies that in the 8 years (of the 12-year playoff deal) that the OB is not hosting a playoff, SEC and B1G teams must play in the OB at least 3 times each, while Notre Dame can play a maximum of twice in the OB.

So the contract does guarantee that the SEC and B1G will get a minimum of $81.25 million in OB payouts ($27.5 x 3), or an average of over $10 million per year over the 8 years, and it is possible that either the SEC or B1G can play in the game 4 or even 5 times, meaning more money.

In contrast, Notre Dame is guaranteed nothing, since the contract does not require that ND ever appear in the OB. Notre Dame can play in the OB only if (a) it is higher-ranked than the highest-ranked available SEC and B1G teams, and (b) if it has not already appeared twice during that time.

And ND keeps it all, unlike conference teams.

Quo is correct. My bet is that we will see ND the maximum two times allowed, though.

As I've said, in the new system Notre Dame's guaranteed money has changed very little. Under the BCS, ND was guaranteed about $1.3 million no matter how the team did on the field. Under the playoff system, that rises to about $4 million. But after that, ND is strictly on a commission basis: Win big and earn spots in the playoffs and OB and Notre Dame will make a fortune, but if ND has Weis/Davie/Willingham-type seasons then it will make considerably less than the typical P5 team.

What's interesting is that ND will make $7M more from the OB than it would from a playoff/access spot. Between that and the higher ACC take, it would not surprise me at all if ND got that spot twice, and even at least once when they otherwise would not qualify for an access bowl spot.

(05-24-2013 02:47 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:41 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:30 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  What is the OB deal? Do the SEC and B1G get a fixed amount every year regardless of whether one of their teams plays in the game, or do they get paid when their teams are in the game and not paid when their teams are not in the game?

The B1G and SEC each get $27.5 million OB payout, but only when they place a team in the OB. The ACC gets $27.5 million when they face an SEC or B1G team, but the ACC gets $41.25 million if an ACC team faces Notre Dame. Notre Dame gets $13.75 million when it plays in the OB.

So the answer is "no", the SEC and B1G do not get any payout from the OB except in years when they have a team in the game. BUT, the contract also specifies that in the 8 years (of the 12-year playoff deal) that the OB is not hosting a playoff, SEC and B1G teams must play in the OB at least 3 times each, while Notre Dame can play a maximum of twice in the OB.

So the contract does guarantee that the SEC and B1G will get a minimum of $81.25 million in OB payouts ($27.5 x 3), or an average of over $10 million per year over the 8 years, and it is possible that either the SEC or B1G can play in the game 4 or even 5 times, meaning more money.

In contrast, Notre Dame is guaranteed nothing, since the contract does not require that ND ever appear in the OB. Notre Dame can play in the OB only if (a) it is higher-ranked than the highest-ranked available SEC and B1G teams, and (b) if it has not already appeared twice during that time.

And ND keeps it all, unlike conference teams.

Quo is correct. My bet is that we will see ND the maximum two times allowed, though.

As I've said, in the new system Notre Dame's guaranteed money has changed very little. Under the BCS, ND was guaranteed about $1.3 million no matter how the team did on the field. Under the playoff system, that rises to about $4 million. But after that, ND is strictly on a commission basis: Win big and earn spots in the playoffs and OB and Notre Dame will make a fortune, but if ND has Weis/Davie/Willingham-type seasons then it will make considerably less than the typical P5 team.

What's interesting is that ND will make $7M more from the OB than it would from a playoff/access spot. Between that and the higher ACC take, it would not surprise me at all if ND got that spot twice, and even at least once when they otherwise would not qualify for an access bowl spot.

Factoring in all bowl and playoff money, the typical P5 school will probably average around $9 million a year for the 12 years of the deal. Notre Dame is essentially guaranteed $4 million as its minimum payment, and toss in say an extra $1 million as its share of ACC lesser-bowl revenue.

So how can ND get to $9 million a year?

1) Two trips to the OB = $27.5 million or $2.3 million per year.
2) Four trips to the playoffs or other access bowls = $24 million or $2 million per year.

That would bring ND's average up to just over $9 million per year, the P5 average.

But since making the playoffs requires a top-4 finish and an access bowl likely a top-12 finish, that mean Notre Dame is going to have to perform very well on the field indeed to make that kind of money - it needs to finish in the top-12 every other season.

How many times did Notre Dame finish in the BCS top-12 over the past 6 seasons? One time. Over the past 12 seasons? Four times.
ND will have to up its game ...

(05-24-2013 02:55 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:47 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:41 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:30 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The B1G and SEC each get $27.5 million OB payout, but only when they place a team in the OB. The ACC gets $27.5 million when they face an SEC or B1G team, but the ACC gets $41.25 million if an ACC team faces Notre Dame. Notre Dame gets $13.75 million when it plays in the OB.

So the answer is "no", the SEC and B1G do not get any payout from the OB except in years when they have a team in the game. BUT, the contract also specifies that in the 8 years (of the 12-year playoff deal) that the OB is not hosting a playoff, SEC and B1G teams must play in the OB at least 3 times each, while Notre Dame can play a maximum of twice in the OB.

So the contract does guarantee that the SEC and B1G will get a minimum of $81.25 million in OB payouts ($27.5 x 3), or an average of over $10 million per year over the 8 years, and it is possible that either the SEC or B1G can play in the game 4 or even 5 times, meaning more money.

In contrast, Notre Dame is guaranteed nothing, since the contract does not require that ND ever appear in the OB. Notre Dame can play in the OB only if (a) it is higher-ranked than the highest-ranked available SEC and B1G teams, and (b) if it has not already appeared twice during that time.

And ND keeps it all, unlike conference teams.

Quo is correct. My bet is that we will see ND the maximum two times allowed, though.

As I've said, in the new system Notre Dame's guaranteed money has changed very little. Under the BCS, ND was guaranteed about $1.3 million no matter how the team did on the field. Under the playoff system, that rises to about $4 million. But after that, ND is strictly on a commission basis: Win big and earn spots in the playoffs and OB and Notre Dame will make a fortune, but if ND has Weis/Davie/Willingham-type seasons then it will make considerably less than the typical P5 team.

What's interesting is that ND will make $7M more from the OB than it would from a playoff/access spot. Between that and the higher ACC take, it would not surprise me at all if ND got that spot twice, and even at least once when they otherwise would not qualify for an access bowl spot.

Factoring in all bowl and playoff money, the typical P5 school will probably average around $9 million a year for the 12 years of the deal. Notre Dame is essentially guaranteed $4 million as its minimum payment, and toss in say an extra $1 million as its share of ACC lesser-bowl revenue.

So how can ND get to $9 million a year?

1) Two trips to the OB = $27.5 million or $2.3 million per year.
2) Four trips to the playoffs or other access bowls = $24 million or $2 million per year.

That would bring ND's average up to just over $9 million per year, the P5 average.

But since making the playoffs requires a top-4 finish and an access bowl likely a top-12 finish, that mean Notre Dame is going to have to perform very well on the field indeed to make that kind of money - it needs to finish in the top-12 every other season.

How many times did Notre Dame finish in the BCS top-12 over the past 6 seasons? One time. Over the past 12 seasons? Four times.
ND will have to up its game ...

or join the ACC full time!

(05-24-2013 02:37 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I don't think ND appearing twice will be a problem. Most higher ranked SEC/BIG teams will be in either the playoffs, Rose, Sugar Bowls.

I think it's going to be a lot harder than you would think. I mean last year, SEC had 2 teams in the playoffs, but then also teams ranked 7-10. ND would have had to be either 5 or 6 to get into the Orange Bowl. Even a 4th SEC team will normally be ranked really high.

Where it will get tougher for ND would be if SEC in first 4-5 times goes every single time. It's possible that in the last 3 times, the Big Ten would have to go to the Orange Bowl.

(05-24-2013 04:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:37 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I don't think ND appearing twice will be a problem. Most higher ranked SEC/BIG teams will be in either the playoffs, Rose, Sugar Bowls.

I think it's going to be a lot harder than you would think. I mean last year, SEC had 2 teams in the playoffs, but then also teams ranked 7-10. ND would have had to be either 5 or 6 to get into the Orange Bowl. Even a 4th SEC team will normally be ranked really high.

Where it will get tougher for ND would be if SEC in first 4-5 times goes every single time. It's possible that in the last 3 times, the Big Ten would have to go to the Orange Bowl.

That's exactly right. In those cases, Notre Dame could be ranked #5 every one of those 3 years, higher than any B1G team even its champion, and yet the Orange would have to take a B1G team over them each and every time.

Let's face it, the system is not designed to facilitate being independent. To make as much money from the bowl system as the typical P5 school, ND will have to be good enough to make one of the 6 major bowls about 6 of the 12 years this playoff system is in effect.

In contrast, a team like Wake Forest can go 3-10 every year and never sniff the playoffs or Orange Bowl, and collect the same money Notre Dame will for routinely being in the national title conversation.

(05-24-2013 02:41 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:30 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 01:57 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Correct. Plus, there will be a $6M/team appearance bonus for every team that a conference places in the CFP and access bowls. It is conceivable that the XII/PAC could average over $100M/yr total from the system and because of the OB tie-in, the SEC and B1G could get as much as $130M in any given season.

What is the OB deal? Do the SEC and B1G get a fixed amount every year regardless of whether one of their teams plays in the game, or do they get paid when their teams are in the game and not paid when their teams are not in the game?

The B1G and SEC each get $27.5 million OB payout, but only when they place a team in the OB. The ACC gets $27.5 million when they face an SEC or B1G team, but the ACC gets $41.25 million if an ACC team faces Notre Dame. Notre Dame gets $13.75 million when it plays in the OB.

So the answer is "no", the SEC and B1G do not get any payout from the OB except in years when they have a team in the game. BUT, the contract also specifies that in the 8 years (of the 12-year playoff deal) that the OB is not hosting a playoff, SEC and B1G teams must play in the OB at least 3 times each, while Notre Dame can play a maximum of twice in the OB.

So the contract does guarantee that the SEC and B1G will get a minimum of $81.25 million in OB payouts ($27.5 x 3), or an average of over $10 million per year over the 8 years, and it is possible that either the SEC or B1G can play in the game 4 or even 5 times, meaning more money.

In contrast, Notre Dame is guaranteed nothing, since the contract does not require that ND ever appear in the OB. Notre Dame can play in the OB only if (a) it is higher-ranked than the highest-ranked available SEC and B1G teams, and (b) if it has not already appeared twice during that time.

And ND keeps it all, unlike conference teams.

Quo is correct. My bet is that we will see ND the maximum two times allowed, though.

As I've said, in the new system Notre Dame's guaranteed money has changed very little. Under the BCS, ND was guaranteed about $1.3 million no matter how the team did on the field. Under the playoff system, that rises to about $4 million. But after that, ND is strictly on a commission basis: Win big and earn spots in the playoffs and OB and Notre Dame will make a fortune, but if ND has Weis/Davie/Willingham-type seasons then it will make considerably less than the typical P5 team.

So, don't have those types of seasons, then. Issues solved.

Who really worries that much about being rewarded for failure? Don't fail.

ND used to make $17.5 million if it made a BCS game (and kept it all) and $0 if it did not.

ND loved that setup. Other schools are the ones that bitched and got it changed to $4.5 million if it made a BCS game and $1.3 million if it did not. (Other schools didn't like ND keeping it all while others had to share BCS bowl money with its "conference mates").

ND people disliked that newer deal. They liked the "win big and keep it all, don't win big and get nothing" philosophy of the old deal.

They looked upon the newer deal as a weak kneed Kevin White kowtowing to the other schools and being worried about being mediocre. They looked at the $1.3 million as "welfare payments". Besides, ND fans considered that $1.3 million as "chicken feed".

ND doesn't mind this new setup, at all. Only non-ND fans seem concerned with ND's lack of guaranteed "safety net" money for mediocrity/failure under the new playoff/access bowl setup.

This looks familiar to ND fans. Win big or go home. That is ok by them.

(It is the same as the "win the national championship or win nothing, no interest in conference titles" philosophy as a football independent that ND fans embrace and are used to).

(05-24-2013 06:37 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 04:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:37 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I don't think ND appearing twice will be a problem. Most higher ranked SEC/BIG teams will be in either the playoffs, Rose, Sugar Bowls.

I think it's going to be a lot harder than you would think. I mean last year, SEC had 2 teams in the playoffs, but then also teams ranked 7-10. ND would have had to be either 5 or 6 to get into the Orange Bowl. Even a 4th SEC team will normally be ranked really high.

Where it will get tougher for ND would be if SEC in first 4-5 times goes every single time. It's possible that in the last 3 times, the Big Ten would have to go to the Orange Bowl.

That's exactly right. In those cases, Notre Dame could be ranked #5 every one of those 3 years, higher than any B1G team even its champion, and yet the Orange would have to take a B1G team over them each and every time.

Let's face it, the system is not designed to facilitate being independent. To make as much money from the bowl system as the typical P5 school, ND will have to be good enough to make one of the 6 major bowls about 6 of the 12 years this playoff system is in effect.

In contrast, a team like Wake Forest can go 3-10 every year and never sniff the playoffs or Orange Bowl, and collect the same money Notre Dame will for routinely being in the national title conversation.

I guess my expectations for ND are a little higher than most and I think the BIG, outside of Ohio St and maybe Michigan, will take a step back. I can't imagine that ND can't make 2 OB over the next 12 years.

(05-24-2013 07:57 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:41 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:30 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  What is the OB deal? Do the SEC and B1G get a fixed amount every year regardless of whether one of their teams plays in the game, or do they get paid when their teams are in the game and not paid when their teams are not in the game?

The B1G and SEC each get $27.5 million OB payout, but only when they place a team in the OB. The ACC gets $27.5 million when they face an SEC or B1G team, but the ACC gets $41.25 million if an ACC team faces Notre Dame. Notre Dame gets $13.75 million when it plays in the OB.

So the answer is "no", the SEC and B1G do not get any payout from the OB except in years when they have a team in the game. BUT, the contract also specifies that in the 8 years (of the 12-year playoff deal) that the OB is not hosting a playoff, SEC and B1G teams must play in the OB at least 3 times each, while Notre Dame can play a maximum of twice in the OB.

So the contract does guarantee that the SEC and B1G will get a minimum of $81.25 million in OB payouts ($27.5 x 3), or an average of over $10 million per year over the 8 years, and it is possible that either the SEC or B1G can play in the game 4 or even 5 times, meaning more money.

In contrast, Notre Dame is guaranteed nothing, since the contract does not require that ND ever appear in the OB. Notre Dame can play in the OB only if (a) it is higher-ranked than the highest-ranked available SEC and B1G teams, and (b) if it has not already appeared twice during that time.

And ND keeps it all, unlike conference teams.

Quo is correct. My bet is that we will see ND the maximum two times allowed, though.

As I've said, in the new system Notre Dame's guaranteed money has changed very little. Under the BCS, ND was guaranteed about $1.3 million no matter how the team did on the field. Under the playoff system, that rises to about $4 million. But after that, ND is strictly on a commission basis: Win big and earn spots in the playoffs and OB and Notre Dame will make a fortune, but if ND has Weis/Davie/Willingham-type seasons then it will make considerably less than the typical P5 team.

So, don't have those types of seasons, then. Issues solved.

Who really worries that much about being rewarded for failure? Don't fail.

ND used to make $17.5 million if it made a BCS game (and kept it all) and $0 if it did not.

ND loved that setup. Other schools are the ones that bitched and got it changed to $4.5 million if it made a BCS game and $1.3 million if it did not. (Other schools didn't like ND keeping it all while others had to share BCS bowl money with its "conference mates").

ND people disliked that newer deal. They liked the "win big and keep it all, don't win big and get nothing" philosophy of the old deal.

They looked upon the newer deal as a weak kneed Kevin White kowtowing to the other schools and being worried about being mediocre. They looked at the $1.3 million as "welfare payments". Besides, ND fans considered that $1.3 million as "chicken feed".

ND doesn't mind this new setup, at all. Only non-ND fans seem concerned with ND's lack of guaranteed "safety net" money for mediocrity/failure under the new playoff/access bowl setup.

This looks familiar to ND fans. Win big or go home. That is ok by them.

But it should NOT look familiar to ND fans, at least not in the sense of being similar to the original all-or-nothing BCS deal that you liked so much. This deal is far closer to the recent "$4.5 million if you make BCS, $1.3 million welfare payment if you don't" deal than it is to the original "make a BCS and keep the whole $17.5m, miss out and collect nothing" deal. Far closer, in that like the former deal, it gives Notre Dame a marginal safety net for mediocrity/failure while drastically reducing Notre Dame's payoff for success.

The new $4m guaranteed amount is essentially the same as the $1.3m amount, just pro-rated upward to account for the huge amount of new money the playoff system will pay compared to the BCS. And, like in recent years under the BCS, instead of getting the full BCS-level bowl share, ND gets a drastically reduced amount: $13.75m for the OB compared to the $41.25m the ACC will get, and if ND makes any other "access" bowl or the playoffs, ND gets a meager $6 million, not the huge payout given to the conference of its opponent.

Make no mistake, this new deal is just the recent, balls cut off $4.5m/$1.3m deal in new clothing.

Bottom line: Notre Dame has to win big, be good enough to be invited to the playoffs or other major bowls every other year, just to make the SAME money that a school like Kentucky will make for going 3-10 every year and never sniffing a major bowl. Yes, it is possible for ND to make considerably more than the typical P5 team, but to do so it will have to win at an insane level that it hasn't come close to reaching since the height of the Holtz era. Notre Dame could theoretically average close to $12 million per year, but only if it made the playoffs 10 out of 12 years and the Orange Bowl the other two years! If Notre Dame achieved the ultimate success, making the playoffs all 12 years, it would actually make less, since its playoff payment is less than its OB payment. In that case, ND would average $6m (playoff game payout)+ $5m ($4m welfare and $1m share of ACC other bowls) = $11m per year. Hardly a big reward for incredible success.

The best way to describe this playoff deal is "lose and make a ton less than the typical P5, win big and make just about the same" ...

(05-25-2013 08:08 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 07:57 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:41 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:30 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The B1G and SEC each get $27.5 million OB payout, but only when they place a team in the OB. The ACC gets $27.5 million when they face an SEC or B1G team, but the ACC gets $41.25 million if an ACC team faces Notre Dame. Notre Dame gets $13.75 million when it plays in the OB.

So the answer is "no", the SEC and B1G do not get any payout from the OB except in years when they have a team in the game. BUT, the contract also specifies that in the 8 years (of the 12-year playoff deal) that the OB is not hosting a playoff, SEC and B1G teams must play in the OB at least 3 times each, while Notre Dame can play a maximum of twice in the OB.

So the contract does guarantee that the SEC and B1G will get a minimum of $81.25 million in OB payouts ($27.5 x 3), or an average of over $10 million per year over the 8 years, and it is possible that either the SEC or B1G can play in the game 4 or even 5 times, meaning more money.

In contrast, Notre Dame is guaranteed nothing, since the contract does not require that ND ever appear in the OB. Notre Dame can play in the OB only if (a) it is higher-ranked than the highest-ranked available SEC and B1G teams, and (b) if it has not already appeared twice during that time.

And ND keeps it all, unlike conference teams.

Quo is correct. My bet is that we will see ND the maximum two times allowed, though.

As I've said, in the new system Notre Dame's guaranteed money has changed very little. Under the BCS, ND was guaranteed about $1.3 million no matter how the team did on the field. Under the playoff system, that rises to about $4 million. But after that, ND is strictly on a commission basis: Win big and earn spots in the playoffs and OB and Notre Dame will make a fortune, but if ND has Weis/Davie/Willingham-type seasons then it will make considerably less than the typical P5 team.

So, don't have those types of seasons, then. Issues solved.

Who really worries that much about being rewarded for failure? Don't fail.

ND used to make $17.5 million if it made a BCS game (and kept it all) and $0 if it did not.

ND loved that setup. Other schools are the ones that bitched and got it changed to $4.5 million if it made a BCS game and $1.3 million if it did not. (Other schools didn't like ND keeping it all while others had to share BCS bowl money with its "conference mates").

ND people disliked that newer deal. They liked the "win big and keep it all, don't win big and get nothing" philosophy of the old deal.

They looked upon the newer deal as a weak kneed Kevin White kowtowing to the other schools and being worried about being mediocre. They looked at the $1.3 million as "welfare payments". Besides, ND fans considered that $1.3 million as "chicken feed".

ND doesn't mind this new setup, at all. Only non-ND fans seem concerned with ND's lack of guaranteed "safety net" money for mediocrity/failure under the new playoff/access bowl setup.

This looks familiar to ND fans. Win big or go home. That is ok by them.

But it should NOT look familiar to ND fans, at least not in the sense of being similar to the original all-or-nothing BCS deal that you liked so much. This deal is far closer to the recent "$4.5 million if you make BCS, $1.3 million welfare payment if you don't" deal than it is to the original "make a BCS and keep the whole $17.5m, miss out and collect nothing" deal. Far closer, in that like the former deal, it gives Notre Dame a marginal safety net for mediocrity/failure while drastically reducing Notre Dame's payoff for success.

The new $4m guaranteed amount is essentially the same as the $1.3m amount, just pro-rated upward to account for the huge amount of new money the playoff system will pay compared to the BCS. And, like in recent years under the BCS, instead of getting the full BCS-level bowl share, ND gets a drastically reduced amount: $13.75m for the OB compared to the $41.25m the ACC will get, and if ND makes any other "access" bowl or the playoffs, ND gets a meager $6 million, not the huge payout given to the conference of its opponent.

Make no mistake, this new deal is just the recent, balls cut off $4.5m/$1.3m deal in new clothing.

Bottom line: Notre Dame has to win big, be good enough to be invited to the playoffs or other major bowls every other year, just to make the SAME money that a school like Kentucky will make for going 3-10 every year and never sniffing a major bowl. Yes, it is possible for ND to make considerably more than the typical P5 team, but to do so it will have to win at an insane level that it hasn't come close to reaching since the height of the Holtz era. Notre Dame could theoretically average close to $12 million per year, but only if it made the playoffs 10 out of 12 years and the Orange Bowl the other two years! If Notre Dame achieved the ultimate success, making the playoffs all 12 years, it would actually make less, since its playoff payment is less than its OB payment. In that case, ND would average $6m (playoff game payout)+ $5m ($4m welfare and $1m share of ACC other bowls) = $11m per year. Hardly a big reward for incredible success.

The best way to describe this playoff deal is "lose and make a ton less than the typical P5, win big and make just about the same" ...

The idea is to return to the Holtz, Devine, Parseghian eras, Quo.

Win big or don't *****. That is the whole deal about ND being an independent. That is the other side of it. Big deal.

ND wants to be independent. If that is the result, so be it.

Win big and collect the big check. Fail to do so, live with it.

Win at that highest level in the playoffs and the Orange Bowl (you left out the Fiesta Bowl) or don't complain.

Why are you so concerned about this? ND understood all of this when it made its decisions the past two years.

Do you think that this just snuck up on them?

(05-24-2013 08:06 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 06:37 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 04:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-24-2013 02:37 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I don't think ND appearing twice will be a problem. Most higher ranked SEC/BIG teams will be in either the playoffs, Rose, Sugar Bowls.

I think it's going to be a lot harder than you would think. I mean last year, SEC had 2 teams in the playoffs, but then also teams ranked 7-10. ND would have had to be either 5 or 6 to get into the Orange Bowl. Even a 4th SEC team will normally be ranked really high.

Where it will get tougher for ND would be if SEC in first 4-5 times goes every single time. It's possible that in the last 3 times, the Big Ten would have to go to the Orange Bowl.

That's exactly right. In those cases, Notre Dame could be ranked #5 every one of those 3 years, higher than any B1G team even its champion, and yet the Orange would have to take a B1G team over them each and every time.

Let's face it, the system is not designed to facilitate being independent. To make as much money from the bowl system as the typical P5 school, ND will have to be good enough to make one of the 6 major bowls about 6 of the 12 years this playoff system is in effect.

In contrast, a team like Wake Forest can go 3-10 every year and never sniff the playoffs or Orange Bowl, and collect the same money Notre Dame will for routinely being in the national title conversation.

I guess my expectations for ND are a little higher than most and I think the BIG, outside of Ohio St and maybe Michigan, will take a step back. I can't imagine that ND can't make 2 OB over the next 12 years.

It's not the Big Ten that's the issue. If SEC continues to have 4 top 10 schools, ND would have to finish ahead of them to make the Orange Bowl. Like last year, SEC had 1/3, and then 7-10. ND would have had to finish either 5 or 6 to make the Orange Bowl. A ND with 1 loss is still probably in the playoff(esp with the win vs Stanford). A ND with 2 losses no way gets in the OB over the SEC teams, and probably doesn't even make an access bowl selected by merit.

This, combined with the fact that if SEC goes the first 5 times, the Big Ten then MUST go the other 3 times- makes it far less of a slam dunk than it would appear.