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Litlle Caesars Bowl going away?
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panite Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Litlle Caesars Bowl going away?
(05-21-2013 04:00 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 03:40 PM)PaulDel2 Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 02:14 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 01:00 PM)PaulDel2 Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 11:11 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If I were to start a new lower-level Big Ten/ACC bowl (one where 6-6 or 7-5 teams can easily drive to), I would have picked Indianapolis as a location. Regardless, this is more indicative of how the power 5 conferences seem to be only interested in playing each other even for their very lowest-level bowl tie-ins. Also note that the ACC has Notre Dame as part of its bowl package along with newcomers Louisville and Pittsburgh, so a Midwestern bowl vs. a Big Ten team is a lot more plausible today than it was prior to conference realignment.

Bingo. The Power 5 are going to have only matchups among themselves, and all OCC games against teams not in the Power 5 are going to be only at the home of the Power 5 team. No more home and homes with anyone in MWC, CUSA, MAC, AAC or SBC.

I don't see that happening completely. The Power 5 doesn't actually want to only have regular season match up's among themselves, as that would lower their win totals all the way around. They also can't all afford to pay 1 million a year or more for buy games, so a lot will continue to play some home and home series with G5 schools they either have history with or for recruiting purposes.

Not so. The Mike Slive formula: 4 home games in the conference; 1 home game with FCS; 2 non BCS (now G5) home games on one and done, for guaranteed 7 home games (all except Vandy selling 55,000 or more seats @ $45 to $100 each, yes the SEC has $100 tickets plus a guaranteed number of games for suites etc...and consessions), and then one home and home with a Power 5. That guarantees 7 and as many as 8 games a year. They don't need to make every game guarantee $1 mil, many schools will sign a one and done for $$600,000 to $750,000 without blinking. The SEC has proven it will work and the other 4 are going to adopt the model.

Not every team can afford that model. Also if they eliminate all home games against G5's then the pricetag on buy games will continue to rise quickly. I agree things are grim, but they aren't as grim as you want to paint them.

Low end P-5 teams will still sign home and homes with G-5 teams to fill their schedules. The P-5 teams with 80k to 110k seat stadiums that traditionally sit on top of their conferences might get away with one and done's with G-5 conferences but the lower end 50k seat P-5 conferences are going to have to sign home and homes with the G-5 schools to get OOC games they have the potential to win. The buy games for low end P-5 schools will have to be with FCS schools in need of money to support their programs.
05-22-2013 02:36 AM
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andy76 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Litlle Caesars Bowl going away?
The problem with adding another new bowl game at Comerica Park, Indianapolis, or any other location is that there won't be enough teams to qualify for all of the bowls. Maybe they could just swap the affiliations of some of the bowls. This would be my suggestion:

2013 bowl affiliations:
Little Caesars: Big Ten #8 - MAC #1
New Orleans: Sun Belt #1 - CUSA #6
Godaddy: Sun Belt #2 - MAC #2
Music City: SEC #7 - ACC #6

Future bowl affiliations???:
Little Caesars: Big Ten #8 - ACC #6
New Orleans: Sun Belt #1 - MAC #1
Godaddy: Sun Belt #2 - CUSA #6
Music City: SEC #7 - MAC #2
05-22-2013 09:55 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Litlle Caesars Bowl going away?
Well that wouldn't be a new bowl game. The Detroit bowl between Big14 and ACC would be the new bowl.
05-22-2013 01:16 PM
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BruceMcF Online
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Post: #44
RE: Litlle Caesars Bowl going away?
(05-22-2013 09:55 AM)andy76 Wrote:  The problem with adding another new bowl game at Comerica Park, Indianapolis, or any other location is that there won't be enough teams to qualify for all of the bowls.
You know something about an outbreak of NCAA sanctions you aren't sharing with us? How many teams were on bowl sanctions (imposed or self-imposed) last year, three? And there was still a bowl eligible team staying home?

With the number of new FBS schools added to the FBS subdivision and with 6-6 record schools bowl eligible, there won't be any problem with number of bowl eligible teams to fill an additional bowl in the 2014/2015 season.
05-22-2013 08:51 PM
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justinslot Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Litlle Caesars Bowl going away?
(05-21-2013 12:26 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Actually, I really liked the idea of Toronto for a game but it simply did not work. I think passport issues were the killer there. Still, T.O. is a WAY cooler city than any of the others mentioned. I'd go for T.O. any day of the week and if there was a B1G/ACC bowl played there, I'd be all over the schitt.

Yeah, I loved that International Bowl. You would think Toronto in early winter would be extra miserable, but no! Toronto is awesome!
05-23-2013 07:42 AM
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WinOrLoseEAGLE Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Litlle Caesars Bowl going away?
(05-21-2013 04:00 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 03:40 PM)PaulDel2 Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 02:14 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 01:00 PM)PaulDel2 Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 11:11 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If I were to start a new lower-level Big Ten/ACC bowl (one where 6-6 or 7-5 teams can easily drive to), I would have picked Indianapolis as a location. Regardless, this is more indicative of how the power 5 conferences seem to be only interested in playing each other even for their very lowest-level bowl tie-ins. Also note that the ACC has Notre Dame as part of its bowl package along with newcomers Louisville and Pittsburgh, so a Midwestern bowl vs. a Big Ten team is a lot more plausible today than it was prior to conference realignment.

Bingo. The Power 5 are going to have only matchups among themselves, and all OCC games against teams not in the Power 5 are going to be only at the home of the Power 5 team. No more home and homes with anyone in MWC, CUSA, MAC, AAC or SBC.

I don't see that happening completely. The Power 5 doesn't actually want to only have regular season match up's among themselves, as that would lower their win totals all the way around. They also can't all afford to pay 1 million a year or more for buy games, so a lot will continue to play some home and home series with G5 schools they either have history with or for recruiting purposes.

Not so. The Mike Slive formula: 4 home games in the conference; 1 home game with FCS; 2 non BCS (now G5) home games on one and done, for guaranteed 7 home games (all except Vandy selling 55,000 or more seats @ $45 to $100 each, yes the SEC has $100 tickets plus a guaranteed number of games for suites etc...and consessions), and then one home and home with a Power 5. That guarantees 7 and as many as 8 games a year. They don't need to make every game guarantee $1 mil, many schools will sign a one and done for $$600,000 to $750,000 without blinking. The SEC has proven it will work and the other 4 are going to adopt the model.

Not every team can afford that model. Also if they eliminate all home games against G5's then the pricetag on buy games will continue to rise quickly. I agree things are grim, but they aren't as grim as you want to paint them.

Disagree - price tag goes down, not up. Think supply/demand --- fewer "buy" games are out there and all of the "buy" opponents (G5) are all still in the pool to BE a "buy" opponent except now there are fewer games being "bought".

In fact, under the sec model and if adopted by the p5 conferences (didn't count but using 65 p5 teams) there is a max 130 G5 v p5 games. Currently, assuming 1 FCS game, there is a max of 195 G5 v p5 games. Demand goes DOWN but supply (70 G5 teams times 4 OOC games = 280) remains constant. Actually, with new call-ups that number will increase further diminishing the value of a "buy" game.

BEFORE (now) = 195 games with 280 to choose from.
sec model = 130 games with 280 (and rising) to choose from.

(280 = 70 G5 teams x 4 OOC games)

Still, thinking it through all the way to the end game, no way mississippi state, purdue, indiana, washington state, kansas state, nc state, duke, rutgers and similarly situated schools agree to this course of action. THOSE guys, along with about 25 others, would soon find themselves being the "have nots".
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2013 09:26 PM by WinOrLoseEAGLE.)
05-23-2013 09:24 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Litlle Caesars Bowl going away?
(05-23-2013 09:24 PM)WinOrLoseEAGLE Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 04:00 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 03:40 PM)PaulDel2 Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 02:14 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 01:00 PM)PaulDel2 Wrote:  Bingo. The Power 5 are going to have only matchups among themselves, and all OCC games against teams not in the Power 5 are going to be only at the home of the Power 5 team. No more home and homes with anyone in MWC, CUSA, MAC, AAC or SBC.

I don't see that happening completely. The Power 5 doesn't actually want to only have regular season match up's among themselves, as that would lower their win totals all the way around. They also can't all afford to pay 1 million a year or more for buy games, so a lot will continue to play some home and home series with G5 schools they either have history with or for recruiting purposes.

Not so. The Mike Slive formula: 4 home games in the conference; 1 home game with FCS; 2 non BCS (now G5) home games on one and done, for guaranteed 7 home games (all except Vandy selling 55,000 or more seats @ $45 to $100 each, yes the SEC has $100 tickets plus a guaranteed number of games for suites etc...and consessions), and then one home and home with a Power 5. That guarantees 7 and as many as 8 games a year. They don't need to make every game guarantee $1 mil, many schools will sign a one and done for $$600,000 to $750,000 without blinking. The SEC has proven it will work and the other 4 are going to adopt the model.

Not every team can afford that model. Also if they eliminate all home games against G5's then the pricetag on buy games will continue to rise quickly. I agree things are grim, but they aren't as grim as you want to paint them.

Disagree - price tag goes down, not up. Think supply/demand --- fewer "buy" games are out there and all of the "buy" opponents (G5) are all still in the pool to BE a "buy" opponent except now there are fewer games being "bought".

In fact, under the sec model and if adopted by the p5 conferences (didn't count but using 65 p5 teams) there is a max 130 G5 v p5 games. Currently, assuming 1 FCS game, there is a max of 195 G5 v p5 games. Demand goes DOWN but supply (70 G5 teams times 4 OOC games = 280) remains constant. Actually, with new call-ups that number will increase further diminishing the value of a "buy" game.

BEFORE (now) = 195 games with 280 to choose from.
sec model = 130 games with 280 (and rising) to choose from.

(280 = 70 G5 teams x 4 OOC games)

Still, thinking it through all the way to the end game, no way mississippi state, purdue, indiana, washington state, kansas state, nc state, duke, rutgers and similarly situated schools agree to this course of action. THOSE guys, along with about 25 others, would soon find themselves being the "have nots".

I think your economics are correct, but keep in mind there's a floor where it's not worth it. A home and home against another G5 will make just as much or more than a away azz woopin game that pays peanuts. In fact, I suspect the FCS/G5 schools that have been body bag victims might be just fine having 6 home games a year for the first time in recent memory. The only reason these schools have submitted to the one and done azz whopping was because if it paid so much. When that money stops, so do the 8 game home schedules.
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2013 11:59 PM by Attackcoog.)
05-23-2013 11:53 PM
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oliveandblue Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Litlle Caesars Bowl going away?
Here's the catch:

G5 schools decide that the "buy" games aren't paying out enough. They schedule other G5 teams in 1-for-1 or 2-for-1 deals. G5 schools begin to see 6-7 home games a year as a result.

P5 schools would now be playing each other more often, and with that comes two bad things. One, they are more likely to finish 5-7 and miss bowl games. Two, bad-to-meh early season records are going to KILL the attendance at these programs. Bad attendance does NOT look good on TV - and the TV networks are going to have a LOT of egg on their face if they see that their "product" has become inferior (especially considering how much they gave up for their product). This could cause a money crunch in the near future. What if networks start to demand the removal of underperforming players in each conference as a result? Let's not act like these networks aren't capable of such a thing.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2013 08:52 AM by oliveandblue.)
05-24-2013 08:51 AM
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BruceMcF Online
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Post: #49
RE: Litlle Caesars Bowl going away?
(05-23-2013 09:24 PM)WinOrLoseEAGLE Wrote:  In fact, under the sec model and if adopted by the p5 conferences (didn't count but using 65 p5 teams) there is a max 130 G5 v p5 games. Currently, assuming 1 FCS game, there is a max of 195 G5 v p5 games.
But the Big12 largely uses a model of one Major Conference, one Go5 (not infrequently newly promoted from FCS) and one FCS, so the Big12 dropping a complete round robin, going to eight conference games and instead scheduling 2 Go5 schools would be an increase in demand.

I haven't looked at the other OOC schedules in any detail, but my impression is the Big Ten is a mix between the SEC scheduling and one Marquee school, one lower tier Major Conference school, one Go5 school and either another Go5 school or an FCS school. So if the Big Ten adopted the SEC model throughout (which is has already decided not to do, in going to a 9 game conference schedule and starting the push to stop scheduling FCS schools), it would be a net increase in demand.

Its not the maximum assuming three Go5 games per Major Conference school that determines demand, its the average number actually scheduled at present. If everyone adopted the SEC model, and every Major Conference school played two Go5 schools, it would be a reduction in Go5 games for some, status quo for some, and an increase for some.
05-24-2013 10:02 AM
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woomba Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Litlle Caesars Bowl going away?
You're forgetting that the practice of scheduling FCS and lower conf teams really started around the BCS era to 'pad' wins - schedules were stronger across the board if you look at the 80s and early 90s and I don't think attendance was a major issue then so I feel that the attendance argument is weak.

In fact, the attendance and TV ratings will probably be better because the fan bases tuning in will be bigger than your average G5 even if they are having a bad season.

(05-24-2013 08:51 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  Here's the catch:

G5 schools decide that the "buy" games aren't paying out enough. They schedule other G5 teams in 1-for-1 or 2-for-1 deals. G5 schools begin to see 6-7 home games a year as a result.

P5 schools would now be playing each other more often, and with that comes two bad things. One, they are more likely to finish 5-7 and miss bowl games. Two, bad-to-meh early season records are going to KILL the attendance at these programs. Bad attendance does NOT look good on TV - and the TV networks are going to have a LOT of egg on their face if they see that their "product" has become inferior (especially considering how much they gave up for their product). This could cause a money crunch in the near future. What if networks start to demand the removal of underperforming players in each conference as a result? Let's not act like these networks aren't capable of such a thing.
05-25-2013 12:44 PM
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