I have heard every possible take on the one and done philosophy at UK, so, as JR recommended, it may be interesting/fun to bat it around. Plenty of clips and interviews touch on this with Cal, but there are not many that really put it all together into a philosophy. Based on my many, many times of hearing Cal, his basic philsophy is below:

1. From Day One at UK, he has been clear that he hates the one and done rule. Of course, it is an NBA rule, not an NCAA rule, so there is nothing he can do about it. He has recommended looking at a baseball type model (commit to three years or do not enroll), but in the meantime, do the best you can for the player in the limited time you have them.

2. He got quite a bit of backlash when he came in for saying UK will be a "Players First Program" because fans generally did not understand what it meant. Remember the heat he took for saying at the 2010 draft that getting all those players drafted in the first round was "The Greatest Day in UK Basketball History"? Well, after seeing what kinds of players he brings and how well they are prepared for the pros, the fans have bought in. School should be to prepare men/women to maximize their gifts into a career, and that is exactly the approach he is taking for basketball players. In that light, winning a championship is a result of the players taking the school where they want to go, not the other way around. That is why you don't hear too much screaming from fans about the results last year. He genuinely tried his best to make a player out of Ryan Harrow. Did he stick with him too long? Probably, but it is better to err on the side of the athlete than the side of the school's interests.

3. Despite what everyone else may think, Cal's players love him to the man. He has basically adopted Cousins and Kidd-Gilchrist. Patrick Patterson is there today, actually, for off season workouts. They all come back to Lexington during the summers for workout and pick-up ball, including Rondo. This is part of his recruitment strategy, too. These one and done guys get to play with high quality pros all summer. You name an active UK pro, he will be on campus at some point this summer. A one and done UK player truly has as much experience as possible packed into 10 months. Only one player, Daniel Orton, did not finish his spring semester coursework after declaring for the pro's. Everybody else finished their coursework, and most have promised to come back and finish their degree. Most of those active NBA players that come back actually take summer classes to work toward their degree. The team finished with a 3.4 GPA this semester. They are getting it done in every respect.

The UK guy had his say... what do you all think? Is the perception different from the outside looking in? Is it a strategy you would like to see at your school? Is it good/bad for the SEC to have UK's philosophy in the league?

I'll throw in an out-of-the-SEC perspective. As long as the one-and-done rule is in place, I think that this is simply how it is going to work. I don't like it - I'd much rather see the "baseball rule" adopted, but as you note that's outside of the NCAA's hands. I'm not going to pretend that I think that college sports is all pure and true, but I do think that for an elite few there's little point in pretending that they're interested in school, and for those who wouldn't make that immediate jump there's at least the potential that they can glean more from their college experience than most of the current one-and-done players do.

I think that the best results will be seen from a mixture of longer term players and one-and-done players. As talented as some of these kids may be, as long as there are other high-level programs with a lot of talent, I think it's more likely going to be those teams that have at least some experience that have the most success. I think that's been seen in recent years with title winning teams - they've typically had a mix of short and moderate-to-long-term players. I also think that once you pass a certain turnover threshold, it can make you more prone to inconsistency - whether it be due to injuries, chemistry, or other reasons, I think it raises the likelihood of early exits and/or missing the tournament altogether. How a fan base responds to that will vary.

There's no doubt in my mind that Bill Self realizes the direction the wind is blowing and is making his best efforts to get the best talent available, and he's certainly not the only one. It's kind of a funny how much attention now goes into recruiting news compared to actual game results, particularly in basketball compared to football.

(05-17-2013 03:25 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  I'll throw in an out-of-the-SEC perspective. As long as the one-and-done rule is in place, I think that this is simply how it is going to work. I don't like it - I'd much rather see the "baseball rule" adopted, but as you note that's outside of the NCAA's hands. I'm not going to pretend that I think that college sports is all pure and true, but I do think that for an elite few there's little point in pretending that they're interested in school, and for those who wouldn't make that immediate jump there's at least the potential that they can glean more from their college experience than most of the current one-and-done players do.

I think that the best results will be seen from a mixture of longer term players and one-and-done players. As talented as some of these kids may be, as long as there are other high-level programs with a lot of talent, I think it's more likely going to be those teams that have at least some experience that have the most success. I think that's been seen in recent years with title winning teams - they've typically had a mix of short and moderate-to-long-term players. I also think that once you pass a certain turnover threshold, it can make you more prone to inconsistency - whether it be due to injuries, chemistry, or other reasons, I think it raises the likelihood of early exits and/or missing the tournament altogether. How a fan base responds to that will vary.

There's no doubt in my mind that Bill Self realizes the direction the wind is blowing and is making his best efforts to get the best talent available, and he's certainly not the only one. It's kind of a funny how much attention now goes into recruiting news compared to actual game results, particularly in basketball compared to football.

Good post. Very true about the hype of basketball recruiting compared to actual games in season. I have heard relegation league ideas thrown around here for football, but I think it would be excellent for basketball. There is definitely enough room in the regular season schedule. That would greatly assist in matching up power teams. Bill Self has had a good mix of short and long term players for a while now. Cal brought on two of the top three in state guys this year to groom into Darius Miller type players. Jarrod Polson, and hopefully Jon Hood, should also serve in that role next year for UK. The Champions Classic is going to be awesome this year; I'm looking forward to seeing Kansas.

I've noticed that by and large the one-and-done rule has suddenly become a lot more palatable to a few certain schools when considering the thought of some of these guys staying more than one year at UK, they're okay with them leaving quickly.

(05-18-2013 01:15 AM)Blue Dynasty Wrote:  I've noticed that by and large the one-and-done rule has suddenly become a lot more palatable to a few certain schools when considering the thought of some of these guys staying more than one year at UK, they're okay with them leaving quickly.

If they keep getting the kind of players that are NBA-level talents after only one year of school, then Kentucky will stay at the top of college basketball. They may have an occasional season that they don't at least make the Sweet Sixteen, but in most years they should be in the Elite 8. Their recruiting has been phenomenal and if those kids are ready to move on after one season, I don't have a problem with it.

I realize that Kentucky had a great group that went in the first round of last year's NBA draft, but you would have to think that won't happen often, meaning more than a few will stick around for at least two or three seasons. My biggest concerns are for those players who believe they are ready to leave college after one year, but are not. Second round picks are often back of the bench players in the NBA and many first round picks don't contribute much, at least early in their careers. I'd much rather see kids stay in school unless they are an obvious early first round selection. For every Anthony Davis, there are 10 guys who declared early that go undrafted, but someone filled their heads that they were superstar first rounders.

I have no problem with it at all for a few reasons:

1. Its the rule that everyone has to play with. Calipari's job is to win games and he's obviously done that. I can't blame him because he is abetter recruiter than everyone else.

2. It does the players a service. Seems odd, but elite 5-star types get to come in and find out how good they really are and compete against each other day in and day out. The exposure is great and the great ones get better and get more prepared for the NBA, the ones who aren't as good stick around.

3. Theres this misconception that the "one and done rule is terrible" but its better for college basketball than what we had before. It only seems worse because now we get to know these guys before they leave.

4. Leaving too early for the NBA never "ruined" anyones career. NBA coaching is better than college. If someone can't make it out of high school with several years of grooming by NBA coaches, they wouldn't have made it if they had gone to college for four years. Kwame Brown wouldn't have been a beast if he had 4 years of college, he would have just been exposed. And in a world where athletes continually get short changed, is it really a crime if he makes 80 million dollars off of it?

tl;dr Calipari is just using the system in place and players who play for him benefit.

(05-18-2013 09:54 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  I have no problem with it at all for a few reasons:

2. It does the players a service. Seems odd, but elite 5-star types get to come in and find out how good they really are and compete against each other day in and day out. The exposure is great and the great ones get better and get more prepared for the NBA, the ones who aren't as good stick around.

Good points, Gamecock. Cal just had an interview this week where he said his only regret about last season is that he tried to "protect" a few incoming freshmen by not recruiting more talent at their position. Reading between the lines, he did not recruit more guards or small forwards because he felt Harrow, Goodwin, and Poythress needed confidence to know that they would be starters because they had fragile egos. This season proved that they needed that matched talent at their position to push them to be their best. That is what happened to Cauley-Stein and Nerlens. By battling, they fulfilled their purpose last year, which is to make each other better. That is why this year's draft class has overlap at a lot of positions; Cal's purpose is to prepare them, not coddle them. Goodwin needed to come back, but at least Poythress did. He needed another year.

I don't like the one and done rule. But I'm an old fart that thinks if you're going to go to school it's because you want to get an education. I don't like colleges being used as nothing more than a minor league for professionals. IMO if a kid has no desire to get an education, and his only reason for being there is to get drafted by the NBA, he should try out for the NBA's developmental league...

I think if a kid accepts a scholarship, he or she should make progress towards a degree. If they leave without obtaining that degree, they should pay back the scholarship money, unless they stay the for the full length of the scholarship. If they get the degree early and then want to leave, that's another story...

(05-18-2013 10:33 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I don't like the one and done rule. But I'm an old fart that thinks if you're going to go to school it's because you want to get an education. I don't like colleges being used as nothing more than a minor league for professionals. IMO if a kid has no desire to get an education, and his only reason for being there is to get drafted by the NBA, he should try out for the NBA's developmental league...

I think if a kid accepts a scholarship, he or she should make progress towards a degree. If they leave without obtaining that degree, they should pay back the scholarship money, unless they stay the for the full length of the scholarship. If they get the degree early and then want to leave, that's another story...

And I second that...

I have a problem with the whole darned thing. I have no problem with Cal or with Kentucky in responding with a strategy to cope with a bad arrangement. My problem is with the N.B.A. and allow me to elaborate why this arrangement is bad for both the N.B.A. and the NCAA.

Nobody can argue that among professional sports that the NFL is absolute King. I think there is a direct correlation between their success at garnering viewers and fan loyalty and the success of college football. In their relationship with college football the NFL becomes an extension of all college fan bases who continue to follow their favorite college players as their careers are extended in the NFL. These players have usually given three years to their colleges or have graduated after a four or five year stint. In three years of college ball their fan bases have gotten familiar with their names, read their human interest stories in the newspapers, and have grown to feel that these guys are indeed a product of their school and their team. The NFL benefits from this arrangement because with each year's draft second and third, or more, favorite NFL teams are picked by college fan bases because their guys are going to play for those teams. The NFL can't lose. Even the poorest NFL team is guaranteed a fairly large national following depending upon the broad distribution of their draftees.

The N.B.A. has been harmed by a number of issues, player disputes with management being one of them of course. But the N.B.A. doesn't benefit from their draft picks bringing along their college fan bases as viewers or attenders because too many of their draftees haven't stayed at their schools long enough to become identified as a loyal product of that school. I think it's wise that Calipari is bringing back his one and done pros to spar in the Summer against his incoming class and in front of the hometown newspapers and fans. He is building a connection that will benefit both Kentucky by getting his fans not to resent those who leave after one year as selfish turncoats, and without realizing it he will help the NBA teams these kids sign with because that resentment by the local fans will be overcome and they will become more likely to start to tune in to watch the extended careers of these athletes as well. If the N.B.A. really wants to enhance it markets it would permit all NCAA recruits to stay in school for the same three years that the NFL permits. The upside for the schools is that fans will buy season tickets to basketball in greater numbers if they identify with the personalities on the team. And, consequently as the college fans buy in they will extend that purchase by following their graduates or star personalities as they extend into the NBA.

Bridge that gap and college basketball and the NBA will start to grow their revenue again. Maybe then college basketball would drive a little more of the revenue stream than 15%.

And as another reason I will not elaborate upon, maybe then some of the more immature players can begin to realize their position as part of a team and find responsibility in the process. That would benefit both the schools and the NBA as well.

I suspect the NBA Players' Union (and agents) would fight any baseball rule tooth-and-nail. I think the NBA itself would be fine with a 3 year rule, but since it has such a dominant market position any such move for its own interests would be seen as anti-competitive. Basically, they're being made responsible for the financial interests of others, even though it really was was not that long ago that their finals were only shown on tape delay. Likewise,the NCAA is increasingly being seen as exploitative even though it's largest "crime" is being the best alternative for those who don't want to go overseas or play for D-League wages.

I agree that in an ideal world, these kids are coming to school for an education first and foremost, but let's be real, they're not. Most of them, of course I can't paint everyone with a broad brush. Though there are a lot that are interested in their education. It never gets reported in the media with all the mostly unwarranted noise about Cal and UK, but the grades of the teams have been phenomenal by and large. A few of them haven't been so great, but numbers are good on the whole, and we've had a number of outstanding student-athletes, Patrick Patterson graduated ahead of schedule, Brandon Knight was over halfway ready for graduation by the time his freshman season was done (and working soon to finish) and Alex Poythress just got a 4.0. Of all the players that declared early, only one did not finish out the semester, and he was the only one that left on somewhat salty terms with UK and hasn't been back for any type of offseason camps or working at the University. Eric Bledsoe, DeAndre Liggins, and Willie Cauley-Stein are all guys who have talked about how their attitudes on school improved so much as time went on, largely because of the coaching staff, namely Calipari himself, who takes great interest in their classwork and bettering them. He has a "book club" for these guys. All this stuff is out there, but you gotta either be close by the University or seek out the info yourself, I guess. I'm sure there is a lot of cool stuff like this at other universities as well that also goes by the wayside in the grand scheme of things.

(05-18-2013 05:17 PM)Blue Dynasty Wrote:  I agree that in an ideal world, these kids are coming to school for an education first and foremost, but let's be real, they're not.

Then they have no business in college. If all they care about is an NBA career, they should either play in the NBA developmental league, or sit out a year until they can declare for the draft. The NCAA does not have to make allowances for kids who have no interest in an education, simply because the NBA doesn't want to take them straight out of HS, like they used to...

(05-18-2013 07:44 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 05:17 PM)Blue Dynasty Wrote:  I agree that in an ideal world, these kids are coming to school for an education first and foremost, but let's be real, they're not.

Then they have no business in college. If all they care about is an NBA career, they should either play in the NBA developmental league, or sit out a year until they can declare for the draft. The NCAA does not have to make allowances for kids who have no interest in an education, simply because the NBA doesn't want to take them straight out of HS, like they used to...

I don't think I meant it quite as crass it sounded, but what I was saying, is not that they DON'T care for an education PERIOD, but of course I think for a lot of these guys that takes a backseat to their basketball dreams. I think that's natural, and it most certainly isn't only happening at Kentucky. And it isn't only happening in basketball, either.

(05-18-2013 07:44 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 05:17 PM)Blue Dynasty Wrote:  I agree that in an ideal world, these kids are coming to school for an education first and foremost, but let's be real, they're not.

Then they have no business in college. If all they care about is an NBA career, they should either play in the NBA developmental league, or sit out a year until they can declare for the draft. The NCAA does not have to make allowances for kids who have no interest in an education, simply because the NBA doesn't want to take them straight out of HS, like they used to...

Especially when kids with 4.0 + academic status and the potential to contribute to society have a hard time getting a full scholarship. I went to my nephew's graduation and I was blown away by the scholarship offers. All the full ride scholarships went to the football players with 2.0 GPAs.