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Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
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Post: #61
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
(05-12-2013 01:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 01:34 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 01:27 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 07:55 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 12:43 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  Because it was the best fit that they could get out of an FBS conference.

The deal wasn't for us to help them transition from FCS so that they could pretend to "fit" in our conference until they signed the paperwork and then complain from day 1 that they don't fit.

That is fiction. As I already pointed out, no FBS conference has more than 2 members near UMass. Especially in a football-only arrangement, there is therefore a negligible difference in travel between the MAC and playing anywhere else. We can nevertheless bemoan this needless state of affairs in northeast college sports without insulting the MAC. They had no role in creating this situation.

True....

[Image: Mid-American_Conference_detailed_map.png]


The AAC would be the best [realistic] fit for UMASS:

[Image: 697px-American_Athletic_Conference_Member_Locations.png]

When you see the AAC on the map, it really makes more sense in a north/south divisional structure. Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, USF,UCF,amd Memphis in the south. Everyone else would be the north. Recruiting realities would prevent such a arrangement--but it does make sense.

The only other conference is the ACC, which is an unrealistic option for UMASS:

[Image: Atlantic_Coast_Conference_Map_2013.png]
05-12-2013 02:15 PM
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Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
(05-12-2013 01:34 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 01:27 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 07:55 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 12:43 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  
(05-11-2013 08:11 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  If they don't fit, why did UMass admin think it was a good idea to join in the first place?

Because it was the best fit that they could get out of an FBS conference.

The deal wasn't for us to help them transition from FCS so that they could pretend to "fit" in our conference until they signed the paperwork and then complain from day 1 that they don't fit.

That is fiction. As I already pointed out, no FBS conference has more than 2 members near UMass. Especially in a football-only arrangement, there is therefore a negligible difference in travel between the MAC and playing anywhere else. We can nevertheless bemoan this needless state of affairs in northeast college sports without insulting the MAC. They had no role in creating this situation.

True....

[Image: Mid-American_Conference_detailed_map.png]


The AAC would be the best fit for UMASS:

[Image: 697px-American_Athletic_Conference_Member_Locations.png]

To start, add Delaware to the map for the MAC. Then in a couple years add two of Army, James Madison, and Stony Brook.

AAC - Uconn, MAC - Umass
AAC - Navy, MAC - Army
AAC - Temple, MAC - Delaware
AAC - Cincinnati, MAC - Miami
AAC - Memphis, MAC - Ohio

The AAC East and MAC East will be in direct competition in the same regions.

Now add James Madison or Stony Brook and then compare the rest of the MAC East vs AAC. Buffalo, Kent, Akron to 2 Florida schools.

Not to mention the MAC West is way closer to the Texas/Oklahoma-Centered AAC West.

The real question is if the MAC makes the right moves with Delaware and a few others and ESPN renegotiates the new TV at enough money, does Temple belong back in the MAC East with UConn football only with other sports in the Big East?

Lets face it, realignment at the top level is nearly done and will he at a stand still for the next 12 years until latest College Playoff contract expires and ACC GoR expires. There is only room for 64 in the elite 4 16-team conferences that will form in 12 years. Why wouldn't a UConn team that is now realizing they are left behind and will remain left behind wouldnt join the Big East to preserve their priority sport in a much better regional league, pocket $3 million, then pocket an additional $2 million playing football-only in the MAC. They would be making $3 million extra per year.

And don't discount that a much more stable MAC with UConn and Army and Grant of Rights couldn't make what the current Unstable AAC makes. Especially if we were taking one of your "Group A" teams and adding Army. We are already in very similar markets (see above). Even if the MAC only got $1.5 million, the extra $2.5 million per year that UConn would be making and them saving travel costs in the Big East and playing basketball in a much better conference with rivals would make the exit fee and jump worth it.

That lineup of UConn, UMass, Army, Buffalo, and Delaware would give the Northeast the lineup they pine for. Its called the MAC East.
05-12-2013 02:41 PM
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Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
There is a real good possibility that in the next few weeks the MAC will announce a new TV deal and Delaware as #14. We can work on Army and UConn football only after that. There's no better set-up the northeast schools currently have available then those 5 schools together and Temple will be wishing they hadn't left.
05-12-2013 02:49 PM
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cleburneslim Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
(05-12-2013 07:29 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(05-09-2013 06:59 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  Already a no from utc, Indiana St, and Illinois St. Probably jmu and mo St. Is the real reason for delay a lack of willing candidates. Was nmsu and Idaho "in particular" added out of necessity or desperation. Who else have said no?

Why do they need to expand more? To get a 12th football team? They have plenty of members to be a FBS conference.

http://www.thenewsstar.com/article/20130...arantee-it

Between cusa, mac , and b12 there could be a real need to find additional school who didn't say no.
05-12-2013 05:51 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
(05-12-2013 02:41 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 01:34 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 01:27 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 07:55 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 12:43 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  Because it was the best fit that they could get out of an FBS conference.

The deal wasn't for us to help them transition from FCS so that they could pretend to "fit" in our conference until they signed the paperwork and then complain from day 1 that they don't fit.

That is fiction. As I already pointed out, no FBS conference has more than 2 members near UMass. Especially in a football-only arrangement, there is therefore a negligible difference in travel between the MAC and playing anywhere else. We can nevertheless bemoan this needless state of affairs in northeast college sports without insulting the MAC. They had no role in creating this situation.

True....

[Image: Mid-American_Conference_detailed_map.png]


The AAC would be the best fit for UMASS:

[Image: 697px-American_Athletic_Conference_Member_Locations.png]

To start, add Delaware to the map for the MAC. Then in a couple years add two of Army, James Madison, and Stony Brook.

AAC - Uconn, MAC - Umass
AAC - Navy, MAC - Army
AAC - Temple, MAC - Delaware
AAC - Cincinnati, MAC - Miami
AAC - Memphis, MAC - Ohio

The AAC East and MAC East will be in direct competition in the same regions.

Now add James Madison or Stony Brook and then compare the rest of the MAC East vs AAC. Buffalo, Kent, Akron to 2 Florida schools.

Not to mention the MAC West is way closer to the Texas/Oklahoma-Centered AAC West.

The real question is if the MAC makes the right moves with Delaware and a few others and ESPN renegotiates the new TV at enough money, does Temple belong back in the MAC East with UConn football only with other sports in the Big East?

Lets face it, realignment at the top level is nearly done and will he at a stand still for the next 12 years until latest College Playoff contract expires and ACC GoR expires. There is only room for 64 in the elite 4 16-team conferences that will form in 12 years. Why wouldn't a UConn team that is now realizing they are left behind and will remain left behind wouldnt join the Big East to preserve their priority sport in a much better regional league, pocket $3 million, then pocket an additional $2 million playing football-only in the MAC. They would be making $3 million extra per year.

And don't discount that a much more stable MAC with UConn and Army and Grant of Rights couldn't make what the current Unstable AAC makes. Especially if we were taking one of your "Group A" teams and adding Army. We are already in very similar markets (see above). Even if the MAC only got $1.5 million, the extra $2.5 million per year that UConn would be making and them saving travel costs in the Big East and playing basketball in a much better conference with rivals would make the exit fee and jump worth it.

That lineup of UConn, UMass, Army, Buffalo, and Delaware would give the Northeast the lineup they pine for. Its called the MAC East.

If your base premise is that realignment at the P5 level is done--then the AAC is just as stable as any other conference. This, no reason for UConn to move.
05-12-2013 06:52 PM
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Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
(05-12-2013 06:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If your base premise is that realignment at the P5 level is done--then the AAC is just as stable as any other conference. This, no reason for UConn to move.

I agree, UConn wouldn't "need" to move, but why wouldn't they?

UConn move to Big East + Football-only to MAC:

- UConn plays in a better basketball league and preserves it's priority sport
- UConn plays in a more regional league for their olympic sports and saves money
- UConn makes an estimated $3 Million more per year. (Big East $3 Million per year + additional future basketball credits from Big East + renegotiated MAC TV deal of $1.5 Million per year)
- UConn would have a more regional football conference (Buffalo, UMass, Delaware, Army all a bus ride away as opposed to just Navy and Temple)

Its not that UConn would need to move, but it has the potential to make them want to move to make more money and for basketball (however if Cincinnati and South Florida leave for Big 12 it probably does make this decision even easier).

Of course this is all contingent on the Big East taking them in.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2013 07:54 PM by Miami (Oh) Yeah !.)
05-12-2013 07:46 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
(05-12-2013 01:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 01:34 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 01:27 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 07:55 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 12:43 AM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  Because it was the best fit that they could get out of an FBS conference.

The deal wasn't for us to help them transition from FCS so that they could pretend to "fit" in our conference until they signed the paperwork and then complain from day 1 that they don't fit.

That is fiction. As I already pointed out, no FBS conference has more than 2 members near UMass. Especially in a football-only arrangement, there is therefore a negligible difference in travel between the MAC and playing anywhere else. We can nevertheless bemoan this needless state of affairs in northeast college sports without insulting the MAC. They had no role in creating this situation.

True....

[Image: Mid-American_Conference_detailed_map.png]


The AAC would be the best fit for UMASS:

[Image: 697px-American_Athletic_Conference_Member_Locations.png]

When you see the AAC on the map, it really makes more sense in a north/south divisional structure. Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, USF,UCF,amd Memphis in the south. Everyone else would be the north. Recruiting realities would prevent such a arrangement--but it does make sense.

Except two of the Northern Division teams -- Louisville and Rutgers -- are gone next year. So either it's a 7/5 split or you have to send a Southern team up north.
05-12-2013 07:48 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
(05-12-2013 07:29 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(05-09-2013 06:59 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  Already a no from utc, Indiana St, and Illinois St. Probably jmu and mo St. Is the real reason for delay a lack of willing candidates. Was nmsu and Idaho "in particular" added out of necessity or desperation. Who else have said no?

Why do they need to expand more? To get a 12th football team? They have plenty of members to be a FBS conference.

Even out scheduling and get a CCG, which is a big deal to many members.

And please, we are not desperate. If we were, we would have added Jacksonville State or Liberty months ago. We're going to sit back and wait on JMU or Missouri State. The conference is in no danger of dying, so it makes sense to sit back and wait.

In the meantime, we are preparing just in case CUSA gets lost and decided it doesn't have enough teams yet and grabs ULL and Georgia State/Arkansas State, so we are asking around to see who would be interested a couple years down the road.

It would be silly to add right now just to add a team, but it would also be silly to not have a list of teams ready to join in case this mess starts up again.

And just for the record, Benson has no say right now...this is all the presidents doing. Benson would have added Liberty weeks ago if he was allowed too.
05-12-2013 09:13 PM
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cleburneslim Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
And how do you know all this?
05-12-2013 09:39 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
(05-12-2013 07:48 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Except two of the Northern Division teams -- Louisville and Rutgers -- are gone next year. So either it's a 7/5 split or you have to send a Southern team up north.
Simple, Gulf Coast Florida (USF) to the Gulf Coast schools, Atlantic Coast Florida (UCF) to the Atlantic Coast schools. Then everybody gets to play in Florida.

Now, I don't reckon that The American East will swap USF to The American West in return for Memphis, but then neither will they allow both Florida's to be combined with Texas, so its not less likely than The American North and The American South.

(05-12-2013 07:46 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Of course this is all contingent on the Big East taking them in.
I don't think that the New Big East went to all that trouble to get away from the fighting with public schools and the FOI requests and state legislature interference that come with public schools and the turmoil involved in having schools with FBS football programs to invite UConn, a public school with an FBS football program. They are going to round out their conference with two private schools, such as SLU and either Dayton or Richmond.

(05-12-2013 02:49 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  There is a real good possibility that in the next few weeks the MAC will announce a new TV deal and Delaware as #14.
I've seen the rumors suggesting a contract renegotiation is underway ~ any new information to suggest that the resolution of the Odd-13 problem will be via adding Delaware?
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2013 10:12 PM by BruceMcF.)
05-12-2013 10:06 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
(05-12-2013 07:48 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 01:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 01:34 PM)Underdog Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 01:27 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 07:55 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  The deal wasn't for us to help them transition from FCS so that they could pretend to "fit" in our conference until they signed the paperwork and then complain from day 1 that they don't fit.

That is fiction. As I already pointed out, no FBS conference has more than 2 members near UMass. Especially in a football-only arrangement, there is therefore a negligible difference in travel between the MAC and playing anywhere else. We can nevertheless bemoan this needless state of affairs in northeast college sports without insulting the MAC. They had no role in creating this situation.

True....

[Image: Mid-American_Conference_detailed_map.png]


The AAC would be the best fit for UMASS:

[Image: 697px-American_Athletic_Conference_Member_Locations.png]

When you see the AAC on the map, it really makes more sense in a north/south divisional structure. Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, USF,UCF,amd Memphis in the south. Everyone else would be the north. Recruiting realities would prevent such a arrangement--but it does make sense.

Except two of the Northern Division teams -- Louisville and Rutgers -- are gone next year. So either it's a 7/5 split or you have to send a Southern team up north.

Memphis could shift north. Tulsa is slightly further north, but Tulsa probably fits better in the south (nothing to do with culture or anything--Memphis is just closer to all the other "north" teams than Tulsa).
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2013 10:30 PM by Attackcoog.)
05-12-2013 10:25 PM
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Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
(05-12-2013 10:06 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 07:48 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Except two of the Northern Division teams -- Louisville and Rutgers -- are gone next year. So either it's a 7/5 split or you have to send a Southern team up north.
Simple, Gulf Coast Florida (USF) to the Gulf Coast schools, Atlantic Coast Florida (UCF) to the Atlantic Coast schools. Then everybody gets to play in Florida.

Now, I don't reckon that The American East will swap USF to The American West in return for Memphis, but then neither will they allow both Florida's to be combined with Texas, so its not less likely than The American North and The American South.

(05-12-2013 07:46 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Of course this is all contingent on the Big East taking them in.
I don't think that the New Big East went to all that trouble to get away from the fighting with public schools and the FOI requests and state legislature interference that come with public schools and the turmoil involved in having schools with FBS football programs to invite UConn, a public school with an FBS football program. They are going to round out their conference with two private schools, such as SLU and either Dayton or Richmond.

(05-12-2013 02:49 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  There is a real good possibility that in the next few weeks the MAC will announce a new TV deal and Delaware as #14.
I've seen the rumors suggesting a contract renegotiation is underway ~ any new information to suggest that the resolution of the Odd-13 problem will be via adding Delaware?

I am inclined to agree with you about UConn though I will say that if any public university with FBS football were to get into the Big East it would be UConn. They were a long time member after all and started there for basketball and unlike some FBS schools they are basketball first. There would be no doubt that they would at least put forth a lot of effort into their basketball product and they have a long history.

That said I don't think either party is currently interested and even if somehow the money put the MAC/BE combo ahead I think UConn would stick to the AAC. It just has this tenacious "we are going to stick around and declare this is better no matter what whether it is or not". I think that is easier to sell to UConn boosters/fans than the combo (I bet they are bitter that the rest of the BE left and the MAC would be looked at as a step down even if money was similar and the MAC continued to step up. I am sure they will fell a need to convince themselves that even if it is untrue).

Please note AAC fans I am not saying that the MAC is better than the AAC. What I am saying is if in the future you could say objectively that the MAC was I still think UConn would resist because they will have convinced themselves that it is that way.
05-12-2013 10:38 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Is the sbc starting to look desperate?
(05-12-2013 07:46 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 06:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If your base premise is that realignment at the P5 level is done--then the AAC is just as stable as any other conference. This, no reason for UConn to move.

I agree, UConn wouldn't "need" to move, but why wouldn't they?

UConn move to Big East + Football-only to MAC:

- UConn plays in a better basketball league and preserves it's priority sport
- UConn plays in a more regional league for their olympic sports and saves money
- UConn makes an estimated $3 Million more per year. (Big East $3 Million per year + additional future basketball credits from Big East + renegotiated MAC TV deal of $1.5 Million per year)
- UConn would have a more regional football conference (Buffalo, UMass, Delaware, Army all a bus ride away as opposed to just Navy and Temple)Its not that UConn would need to move, but it has the potential to make them want to move to make more money and for basketball (however if Cincinnati and South Florida leave for Big 12 it probably does make this decision even easier).

Of course this is all contingent on the Big East taking them in.

Although the MAC may get more $ in a future TV deal, it wouldn't be equal to what the AAC is getting now. The only chance the MAC would have at getting UCONN is if the B12 takes Cincy, USF, UCF, and ECU or some other school. Moreover, the SEC would have to decide on improving the market for its network by taking Houston (huge market) and Memphis (good market and BBall). The AAC would raid C-USA again, but the replacements would probably cause UCONN to seriously consider the MAC. Furthermore, the MAC might be able to get Army. However, I could see the AAC also trying to get Army. The AAC could then add UMASS and two good bball schools since Navy and Army would be football only members.
05-12-2013 10:41 PM
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