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Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
Even if USU, SJSU, CSU, etc. aren't flagships, they still have at least the amount of influence a typical MAC school has, if not more. Boise State, while not U of Idaho, is the de facto flagship since it draws the majority of its students from the southern, more heavily populated side of the state. These technicalities don't matter so much since the bottom line is that they dwarf the MAC as far as local interest goes. Add in the fact that they currently have a better TV deal, far better basketball, more bowl connections, and higher name recognition (Boise State mostly, but people still remember that UU/TCU were in the MWC during their runs), and you can't compare us. It's foolish to think otherwise.
05-07-2013 12:13 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 12:09 PM)Falcon1407 Wrote:  I'm guessing bidding wars aren't breaking out over who gets to televise, La. Tech @ Rice or UTSA @ Marshall, basketball games. I expect they end up around 600-700k per school.

That's still considerably more than the MAC. That's an amazing number.
05-07-2013 12:16 PM
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TARDledo Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
The only people who know SJSU exists, went to SJSU. And even they don't give a **** about SJSU football.

To say that SJSU can possibly have more influence than any MAC school other than maybe EMU is...

Agree to disagree.
05-07-2013 12:22 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
The big question is how much $$$ could the MAC get if it renegotiated with ESPN?

There are a few milestone per school values we are looking at here:

500,000 (A significant increase for the MAC but still behind CUSA/AAC)
1 million (This seems to be the new minimum standard for a G5 league)
1.5 million (Slightly less than the AAC, maximum the MAC could hope)

What leagues like the MWC are doing is out of the 1.5 million they receive, 1.2 million is guaranteed to all league members with the remaining 300k (or 3.6 million) offered to a raise pool for an extra 300k per home appearance.

Therefore I think a reasonable estimate for the MAC and with a 14th school is 1.25 million per school average with 1 million to all MAC members and the remaining 250k (3 million) for the raise pool.

If ESPN wants to be a matchmaker and UMass is making 400k in the A10 ESPN will have to offer at least 1 million per school to get them to move over. The MAC is not going to get a raise to only 300k. That wouldn't make any sense.

A school like EMU could then count on 1 million from the CFP and 1 million from the TV deal even if they go 0-12 and don't appear on the package. Add in the academic money and EMU would make 2.3 million a year where before they were basically making nothing.

For a program like Ohio with 2 home games plus the MAC Title game (500k bonus) is looking at 2 million of TV money. Then with a 400k subsidy for making a bowl plus splitting the CFP raise pool 6 ways (750k) would be looking at 2.15 million in CFP money. Throwing in academic cash and the grand total is 4.45 million.

MAC schools then would be making somewhere between 2.3 million to 4.5 million depending on where they finish in the league, not counting a CFP bowl which would be another 3 million for the school participating with the other 3 million going back to be split with the remaining members.
05-07-2013 12:22 PM
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Falcon1407 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 12:16 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 12:09 PM)Falcon1407 Wrote:  I'm guessing bidding wars aren't breaking out over who gets to televise, La. Tech @ Rice or UTSA @ Marshall, basketball games. I expect they end up around 600-700k per school.

That's still considerably more than the MAC. That's an amazing number.

Yes. But, half what they currently make and could wind up in the same ballpark as the MAC.

Not to mention, there deal has considerably less exposure being on CBS College Sports. I can't even find the TV numbers for CUSA football on CBS College Sports.

Tulsa vs UCF only had 590K viewers for their conference championship game. Akron @ Toledo had 542k.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2013 12:46 PM by Falcon1407.)
05-07-2013 12:41 PM
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HuskieJohn Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 11:39 AM)Falcon1407 Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 11:31 AM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  ..isn't C-USA going to find their revenues slashed by the networks when they renegotiate with that much weaker line-up of schools?

Yes, they will. I would assume ESPN gets rid of their conference championship game on ABC, also.

Yup...just released today the game will be on ESPN or ESPN2.

Quite a step down from nationally on ABC.
05-07-2013 12:43 PM
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Falcon1407 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 12:43 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 11:39 AM)Falcon1407 Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 11:31 AM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  ..isn't C-USA going to find their revenues slashed by the networks when they renegotiate with that much weaker line-up of schools?

Yes, they will. I would assume ESPN gets rid of their conference championship game on ABC, also.

Yup...just released today the game will be on ESPN or ESPN2.

Quite a step down from nationally on ABC.

I forgot last year they were on ESPN2, the previous year when Houston was so good it was on ABC.

I should have said when they redo their TV contract, ESPN will drop that game completely.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2013 12:48 PM by Falcon1407.)
05-07-2013 12:48 PM
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CMUprof Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year de
(05-07-2013 12:13 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Even if USU, SJSU, CSU, etc. aren't flagships, they still have at least the amount of influence a typical MAC school has, if not more. Boise State, while not U of Idaho, is the de facto flagship since it draws the majority of its students from the southern, more heavily populated side of the state. These technicalities don't matter so much since the bottom line is that they dwarf the MAC as far as local interest goes. Add in the fact that they currently have a better TV deal, far better basketball, more bowl connections, and higher name recognition (Boise State mostly, but people still remember that UU/TCU were in the MWC during their runs), and you can't compare us. It's foolish to think otherwise.

Idaho is the flagship. It's generally based on research funding and Idaho pulls in nearly twice what Boise does. I know the area pretty well as I came close to working at both UI and ISU.
05-07-2013 12:53 PM
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Falcon1407 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
After scrolling through the games last year, I think CUSA was on ESPN, ESPN2, ABC, CBS, or Fox, a total of twice.

UCF vs Ohio State and UCF vs Tulsa.

Did I miss any?

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2012/12/...is-season/
05-07-2013 12:54 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
this is just fantasy talk, but wouldn't it be fun if ESPN decided to elevate financially by putting them within striking distance of the AAC, just to crap on them more then they already have? would be fun to watch.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2013 12:56 PM by perimeterpost.)
05-07-2013 12:55 PM
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mufanatehc Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 12:53 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 12:13 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Even if USU, SJSU, CSU, etc. aren't flagships, they still have at least the amount of influence a typical MAC school has, if not more. Boise State, while not U of Idaho, is the de facto flagship since it draws the majority of its students from the southern, more heavily populated side of the state. These technicalities don't matter so much since the bottom line is that they dwarf the MAC as far as local interest goes. Add in the fact that they currently have a better TV deal, far better basketball, more bowl connections, and higher name recognition (Boise State mostly, but people still remember that UU/TCU were in the MWC during their runs), and you can't compare us. It's foolish to think otherwise.

Idaho is the flagship. It's generally based on research funding and Idaho pulls in nearly twice what Boise does. I know the area pretty well as I came close to working at both UI and ISU.

While Idaho is still the academic flagship, its hard to argue that Boise State is not the athletic flagship of the state. It also has about 10,000 more students than UI.
05-07-2013 12:57 PM
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Post: #72
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 10:59 AM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 07:56 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  I see no facts that suggest the current MWC lineup is superior to the current MAC lineup. Its pretty close. CUSA and SBC have zero in both.

As somebody who actually LIVES in the footprint of the MWC, you are delusional. As mostly flagship schools in their states, they have a much larger fan base than ANY MAC school, much larger stadiums, attendance, etc.

While I love the MAC, I'm a realist. That doesn't mean we can't make progress in closing that gap some. You need to take off those MAC glasses and see the world for how it actually is, instead of what you'd like it to be.

As somebody else who also LIVES in the footprint of the MWC, I can assure you that nobody cares about San Jose State and many of the other schools you are talking about. Besides, we are talking competitiveness not attendance. We all know MAC attendance is down. Sure, Colorado State has a nice stadium, but they would get beat down in the MAC... same as Wyoming... and UNLV... NIU thrashed Fresno State in their bowl game. Outside of Boise State, the MWC has nothing on the MAC except for better attendance numbers.
05-07-2013 01:10 PM
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mufanatehc Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 11:52 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 11:31 AM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  ..isn't C-USA going to find their revenues slashed by the networks when they renegotiate with that much weaker line-up of schools?

I would be surprised if CUSA ended up taking a hit from the 1.45 mill they are currently making between 3 partners (ESPN, CBS, Fox). What is more likely is that ESPN decides to cut the cord since they have the AAC now in their portfolio.

If the A10 can get 400k per year from NBC for basketball I'm sure CUSA could get them to fill in for ESPN. No one network is going to pay CUSA 1.5 million a year but they could maintain it with a combination. CUSA has always going back to its inception made at least 1 million per year.

CUSA wanted the cord cut when they left for Fox/CBS-S; however, ESPN sued over a breach of the right of first refusal clause, which resulted in a settlement that allowed the CUSA championship to be retained by ESPN at a discounted rate vs what it would have been on Fox.

The current contract with the current payouts will be allowed to play out, and when renegotiation comes, the new contract will likely look a lot like the current one, which is sort of a step back, but not as drastic as most on here and other boards believe.

You don't think the conference just added teams without consulting their television partners about the potential affects to the current contract, do you?

The AAC went from being a quasi-power league with superstar BBall and national brands to a mid-major conference. CUSA started as a mid-major and is still a mid-major. Comparing the evolution of the two is like comparing apples to oranges.
05-07-2013 01:11 PM
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Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 01:11 PM)mufanatehc Wrote:  You don't think the conference just added teams without consulting their television partners about the potential affects to the current contract, do you?

One thing I know is that the CUSA copied the AAC strategy of big markets and worthless teams. The AAC not only consulted the television partners but also hired a television partner executive as their commissioner and then got $2 million. Good luck to you CUSA.
05-07-2013 01:36 PM
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EmeryZach Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-06-2013 03:54 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  I don't expect this to generate huge changes or cash, but I'd like to see 4 things:

1. The MAC make some decision on UMass. If ESPN likes them, ok, pay up. Otherwise, why divide small revenue further.

2. I'd like to see some increase in revenues as the ratings are respectable. But, it is what the market bears.

3. I'd like to see some incentives as part of the contract: if the MAC can put out a big game that gets higher ratings, then have some sort of monetary bonus.

4. I'd like to see the MACC moved to Sat.

You do know that ESPN founder Bill Rasmussen started his broadcasting career with "The Redmen Network" (UMass' former Nickname) where he called all the UMass football games. You did know that right?

We have a great relationship with ESPN. They like us.
05-07-2013 01:51 PM
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Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 01:51 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  
(05-06-2013 03:54 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  I don't expect this to generate huge changes or cash, but I'd like to see 4 things:

1. The MAC make some decision on UMass. If ESPN likes them, ok, pay up. Otherwise, why divide small revenue further.

2. I'd like to see some increase in revenues as the ratings are respectable. But, it is what the market bears.

3. I'd like to see some incentives as part of the contract: if the MAC can put out a big game that gets higher ratings, then have some sort of monetary bonus.

4. I'd like to see the MACC moved to Sat.

You do know that ESPN founder Bill Rasmussen started his broadcasting career with "The Redmen Network" (UMass' former Nickname) where he called all the UMass football games. You did know that right?

We have a great relationship with ESPN. They like us.

Sweet! Does that mean we are about to get paid?
Count me in.
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05-07-2013 01:58 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 01:51 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  
(05-06-2013 03:54 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  I don't expect this to generate huge changes or cash, but I'd like to see 4 things:

1. The MAC make some decision on UMass. If ESPN likes them, ok, pay up. Otherwise, why divide small revenue further.

2. I'd like to see some increase in revenues as the ratings are respectable. But, it is what the market bears.

3. I'd like to see some incentives as part of the contract: if the MAC can put out a big game that gets higher ratings, then have some sort of monetary bonus.

4. I'd like to see the MACC moved to Sat.

You do know that ESPN founder Bill Rasmussen started his broadcasting career with "The Redmen Network" (UMass' former Nickname) where he called all the UMass football games. You did know that right?

Nope.

Quote:We have a great relationship with ESPN. They like us.

Will they pay for you?

If not, then it's really time for the MAC to remedy that mistake.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2013 02:07 PM by DrTorch.)
05-07-2013 02:05 PM
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RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 01:11 PM)mufanatehc Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 11:52 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 11:31 AM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  ..isn't C-USA going to find their revenues slashed by the networks when they renegotiate with that much weaker line-up of schools?

I would be surprised if CUSA ended up taking a hit from the 1.45 mill they are currently making between 3 partners (ESPN, CBS, Fox). What is more likely is that ESPN decides to cut the cord since they have the AAC now in their portfolio.

If the A10 can get 400k per year from NBC for basketball I'm sure CUSA could get them to fill in for ESPN. No one network is going to pay CUSA 1.5 million a year but they could maintain it with a combination. CUSA has always going back to its inception made at least 1 million per year.

CUSA wanted the cord cut when they left for Fox/CBS-S; however, ESPN sued over a breach of the right of first refusal clause, which resulted in a settlement that allowed the CUSA championship to be retained by ESPN at a discounted rate vs what it would have been on Fox.

The current contract with the current payouts will be allowed to play out, and when renegotiation comes, the new contract will likely look a lot like the current one, which is sort of a step back, but not as drastic as most on here and other boards believe.

You don't think the conference just added teams without consulting their television partners about the potential affects to the current contract, do you?

The AAC went from being a quasi-power league with superstar BBall and national brands to a mid-major conference. CUSA started as a mid-major and is still a mid-major. Comparing the evolution of the two is like comparing apples to oranges.

My point has been more that the AAC and CUSA are mostly in the exact same footprint so there is little incentive for ESPN to sign CUSA or SBC for that matter when they already have a G5 product in the southern markets.

The AAC is basically CUSA 1.0 minus Louisville, TCU, Army, UAB and Southern Miss but adding Temple, UConn, SMU, Navy, Tulsa and UCF. AAC basketball should be able to sustain 4 NCAA bids a year on average.

I wouldn't be surprised of CUSA split when its next contract is up into 2 more regional leagues to further save on travel and absorb the SBC.
05-07-2013 02:06 PM
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mufanatehc Offline
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RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 01:36 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 01:11 PM)mufanatehc Wrote:  You don't think the conference just added teams without consulting their television partners about the potential affects to the current contract, do you?

One thing I know is that the CUSA copied the AAC strategy of big markets and worthless teams. The AAC not only consulted the television partners but also hired a television partner executive as their commissioner and then got $2 million. Good luck to you CUSA.

At this level, a potential market will almost always outweigh everything else in terms of program value. The only thing that really overcomes this is sustained success at a high and visible level, and there weren't any available teams possessing that quality for CUSA to grab.
05-07-2013 02:07 PM
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RE: Mid-American Conference, ESPN open to renegotiation four years into eight year deal.
(05-07-2013 02:06 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 01:11 PM)mufanatehc Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 11:52 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-07-2013 11:31 AM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  ..isn't C-USA going to find their revenues slashed by the networks when they renegotiate with that much weaker line-up of schools?

I would be surprised if CUSA ended up taking a hit from the 1.45 mill they are currently making between 3 partners (ESPN, CBS, Fox). What is more likely is that ESPN decides to cut the cord since they have the AAC now in their portfolio.

If the A10 can get 400k per year from NBC for basketball I'm sure CUSA could get them to fill in for ESPN. No one network is going to pay CUSA 1.5 million a year but they could maintain it with a combination. CUSA has always going back to its inception made at least 1 million per year.

CUSA wanted the cord cut when they left for Fox/CBS-S; however, ESPN sued over a breach of the right of first refusal clause, which resulted in a settlement that allowed the CUSA championship to be retained by ESPN at a discounted rate vs what it would have been on Fox.

The current contract with the current payouts will be allowed to play out, and when renegotiation comes, the new contract will likely look a lot like the current one, which is sort of a step back, but not as drastic as most on here and other boards believe.

You don't think the conference just added teams without consulting their television partners about the potential affects to the current contract, do you?

The AAC went from being a quasi-power league with superstar BBall and national brands to a mid-major conference. CUSA started as a mid-major and is still a mid-major. Comparing the evolution of the two is like comparing apples to oranges.

My point has been more that the AAC and CUSA are mostly in the exact same footprint so there is little incentive for ESPN to sign CUSA or SBC for that matter when they already have a G5 product in the southern markets.

The AAC is basically CUSA 1.0 minus Louisville, TCU, Army, UAB and Southern Miss but adding Temple, UConn, SMU, Navy, Tulsa and UCF. AAC basketball should be able to sustain 4 NCAA bids a year on average.

I wouldn't be surprised of CUSA split when its next contract is up into 2 more regional leagues to further save on travel and absorb the SBC.

CUSA doesn't really want anything to do with ESPN though, they made that clear during their last contract negotiations.

And I doubt you'll see a split because there is no incentive to have a conference with less than 12 members. Each side would need to find 5 new members. Would those 5 new members make each new conference more valuable than the current incarnation of CUSA, especially considering that one of the new conferences would have to go without an auto-bid for awhile? Probably not.
05-07-2013 02:17 PM
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