(05-05-2013 10:00 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  Among the Big 5 conferences, I would have to say Washington State.

- Football: last winning season/bowl appearance was 2003, only two conference titles since the joining the AAWU (Pac 8) in 1962
- Basketball: three NCAA appearances since 1990, only appearances past the second round are the 2008 Sweet Sixteen and 1941 Championship Game.
- Fewest all sports national championships among Pac 12 programs with 2: Men's Boxing in 1937 and Men's Indoor Track and Field in 1977. Currently sit tied for #213 in this year's Director's Cup.

To be fair to Washington State, there are about 4 or 5 other schools among the Big 5 conferences that could compete for their spot. Landing Mike Leach was huge, so at least they have a shot to turn things around.

I think it is a bit harder to pick among the Group of 5 conferences, as many of them have seen significant turnover.

Well choose one that has not like the MAC. Who in the MAC does not cut the mustard?

If you want to make it more interesting avoid making the easy guess of EMU and rationalize somebody else. That would be far more interesting.

(05-05-2013 05:52 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  No one is talking much about current league members in the SEC and ACC and BIG that are not doing well in many sports, losing money and on the verge of disaster with their athletic programs. Also, take a look at schools merging into new leagues with distant chances of any type of success:


Schools that are currently part of the BIG or ACC or SEC not performing well. Maybe these schools could be replaced in the future. I understand with GOR that is unlikely, but is it really. Some feel these schools are not worthy of their current league while others maybe a better fit.

ACC:

Wake Forest

-small football stadium-capacity 31,000

http://www.wakeforestsports.com/faciliti...roves.html

NCAA FOOTBALL ATTENDANCE-

-http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2011.pdf

-FOOTBALL RECORD

5-7 last year with hideous losses-2013

http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m...sched.html

6-7 2011-2012

http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m...sched.html

-3-9 2010-2011

http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m...sched.html

MENS BASKETBALL

13-18 2012-2013

http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m...sched.html

13-18 2011-2012

http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m...sched.html

8-24 2010-2011

http://www.wakeforestsports.com/sports/m...sched.html

FOOTBALL PROFITS ACC: Note Wake Forest is nearly 3 million in the hole for it's football program just last year alone.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/...d-big-ten/

BIG

INDIANA FOOTBALL

- 2012-2013 4-8 football record

http://www.iuhoosiers.com/sports/m-footb...sched.html

- 2011-2012 football record 1-11

http://www.iuhoosiers.com/sports/m-footb...sched.html

2010-2011 football record 5-7

http://www.iuhoosiers.com/sports/m-footb...sched.html

2009-2010 football record 4-8

http://www.iuhoosiers.com/sports/m-footb...sched.html

FOOTBALL STADIUM-MEMORIAL STADIUM- CAPACITY 52,929

http://www.iuhoosiers.com/facilities/ind...l#football

INDIANA FOOTBALL ATTENDANCE:

-http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2011.pdf

INDIANA FOOTBALL BUDGET COMPARED TO BIG 10 SCHOOLS:

http://www.ibj.com/iu-football-gains-gro...icle/22077

PURDUE:

PURDUE FOOTBALL BUDGET COMPARED TO BIG 10 SCHOOLS

http://www.ibj.com/iu-football-gains-gro...icle/22077

FOOTBALL

2012-2013- football record 6-7

http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-foo...sched.html

2011-2012 football record 7-6

http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-foo...sched.html

2010-2011 football record 4-8

http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-foo...sched.html

FOOTBALL STADIUM:

http://www.purduesports.com/facilities/r...adium.html

PURDUE FOOTBALL ATTENDANCE SINCE 2003

http://www.boiledsports.com/2011/09/atte...story.html

-http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2011.pdf



SEC

Kentucky

FOOTBALL ATTENDANCE:

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_r...e/2011.pdf

2012-2013 football record 2-10

http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-foot...sched.html

2011-2012 football record 5-7

http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-foot...sched.html

2010-2011- football record 6-7

http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-foot...sched.html

FOOTBALL STADIUM: COMMONWEALTH STADIUM: CAPACITY 67,606

http://www.ukathletics.com/athletic-dept...adium.html

Ironically, Kentucky is in the top 20 in NCAA attendance over 60K per game despite a losing record over the past 3 seasons.

Schools entering new leagues with an uphill battle. Not only a financial uphill battle, but an uphill battle on the playing field as well in many sports.

Rutgers, Maryland to the BIG

This data has been brought to you by a Big Ten Research Grant...

Of course I am joking.....

(05-05-2013 08:25 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The number of P5 schools who "don't pull their weight" is exaggerated. Pretty much everyone brings something the conference needs. But for the sake of argument there are a handful of schools that meet all of the following:

-Rarely to never win any national titles and rarely to never win their conference in the Big 4 sports

-Are redundant in their market and bring no new TV viewers not already brought by another member

-Are guilty of both of the above but do not make up for it with exceptional academics or AAU status.

There's maybe 3-5 schools who meet all of the above criteria and none of the schools you mention meet that. They all bring several things their conferences want.

Be more specific 10th Mountain. I want to make it clear to you, I'm not upset or pushing for Cincinnati to replace these teams and I realize that many are in their respective conferences for reasons I may not know or understand. I'm simply putting this up for discussion. Mean no harm to current programs. I like Purdue and Indiana and have friends that have attended both schools. Certainly we would love for Cincinnati to be in one of these conferences, but that is not my point.

Purdue has dramatically declining football attendance to the point that Butch Jones (former Cincinnati coach) returned and told the Cincinnati newspapers how bad Purdue was at the time of the interview. He stated Purdue was in a poor position with respect to facilities, attendance and the over football team status.

Cincinnati is perfectly fit for the Big 10 but Ohio State would NEVER allow that to happen. The size of our research activities, enrollment, research patent income, types and sizes of colleges within the university (large medical school with large research facilities, large and well know Law School, Engineering at the doctorate level, Music and voice programs top of the ladder, tier one institution)are all in line with many Big 10 institutions not to mention our midwest loaction. We are not the main state school of Ohio, but the second largest in terms of enrollment and facilities with Akron a close third.

(05-07-2013 05:50 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 08:25 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The number of P5 schools who "don't pull their weight" is exaggerated. Pretty much everyone brings something the conference needs. But for the sake of argument there are a handful of schools that meet all of the following:

-Rarely to never win any national titles and rarely to never win their conference in the Big 4 sports

-Are redundant in their market and bring no new TV viewers not already brought by another member

-Are guilty of both of the above but do not make up for it with exceptional academics or AAU status.

There's maybe 3-5 schools who meet all of the above criteria and none of the schools you mention meet that. They all bring several things their conferences want.

Be more specific 10th Mountain. I want to make it clear to you, I'm not upset or pushing for Cincinnati to replace these teams and I realize that many are in their respective conferences for reasons I may not know or understand. I'm simply putting this up for discussion. Mean no harm to current programs. I like Purdue and Indiana and have friends that have attended both schools. Certainly we would love for Cincinnati to be in one of these conferences, but that is not my point.

Purdue has dramatically declining football attendance to the point that Butch Jones (former Cincinnati coach) returned and told the Cincinnati newspapers how bad Purdue was at the time of the interview. He stated Purdue was in a poor position with respect to facilities, attendance and the over football team status.

Cincinnati is perfectly fit for the Big 10 but Ohio State would NEVER allow that to happen. The size of our research activities, enrollment, research patent income, types and sizes of colleges within the university (large medical school with large research facilities, large and well know Law School, Engineering at the doctorate level, Music and voice programs top of the ladder, tier one institution)are all in line with many Big 10 institutions not to mention our midwest loaction. We are not the main state school of Ohio, but the second largest in terms of enrollment and facilities with Akron a close third.

Cincinnati is a commuter school that rarely draws 30,000 average attendance and has a 35k seat stadium. Its undergraduate programs are not as highly rated as the vast majority of the Big 10. To the extent that Ohio has another flagship, you need to look at Miami and Ohio U. Cincinnati doesn't fit the Big 10 at all.

I'm surprised that a Cincinnati fan wouldn't understand (or maybe you just refuse to acknowledge it) what IU and UK (and similarly futile football programs like Duke, UNC and Kansas) bring to a conference.

Cincy is more valuable to the B12 or ACC than the B1G

Similar to how A&M was undervalued by the B12 (because let's face it, if you have UT you don't need anyone else to deliver the TX market) but is hugely valuable to the SEC because we brought them access and subscription fees to a huge state they didn't have a presence in.

Likewise, Cincy is not valuable to the B1G because they have OSU but woild be very valuable to the B12 because it would give them another large, football crazed state besides Texas.

(05-07-2013 08:30 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Cincy is more valuable to the B12 or ACC than the B1G

Similar to how A&M was undervalued by the B12 (because let's face it, if you have UT you don't need anyone else to deliver the TX market) but is hugely valuable to the SEC because we brought them access and subscription fees to a huge state they didn't have a presence in.

Likewise, Cincy is not valuable to the B1G because they have OSU but woild be very valuable to the B12 because it would give them another large, football crazed state besides Texas.

Similarly, FSU is very valuable to the ACC and would be to the Big 12 or Big 10, but adds limited value to the SEC.

(05-07-2013 07:29 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-07-2013 05:50 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 08:25 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The number of P5 schools who "don't pull their weight" is exaggerated. Pretty much everyone brings something the conference needs. But for the sake of argument there are a handful of schools that meet all of the following:

-Rarely to never win any national titles and rarely to never win their conference in the Big 4 sports

-Are redundant in their market and bring no new TV viewers not already brought by another member

-Are guilty of both of the above but do not make up for it with exceptional academics or AAU status.

There's maybe 3-5 schools who meet all of the above criteria and none of the schools you mention meet that. They all bring several things their conferences want.

Be more specific 10th Mountain. I want to make it clear to you, I'm not upset or pushing for Cincinnati to replace these teams and I realize that many are in their respective conferences for reasons I may not know or understand. I'm simply putting this up for discussion. Mean no harm to current programs. I like Purdue and Indiana and have friends that have attended both schools. Certainly we would love for Cincinnati to be in one of these conferences, but that is not my point.

Purdue has dramatically declining football attendance to the point that Butch Jones (former Cincinnati coach) returned and told the Cincinnati newspapers how bad Purdue was at the time of the interview. He stated Purdue was in a poor position with respect to facilities, attendance and the over football team status.

Cincinnati is perfectly fit for the Big 10 but Ohio State would NEVER allow that to happen. The size of our research activities, enrollment, research patent income, types and sizes of colleges within the university (large medical school with large research facilities, large and well know Law School, Engineering at the doctorate level, Music and voice programs top of the ladder, tier one institution)are all in line with many Big 10 institutions not to mention our midwest loaction. We are not the main state school of Ohio, but the second largest in terms of enrollment and facilities with Akron a close third.

Cincinnati is a commuter school that rarely draws 30,000 average attendance and has a 35k seat stadium. Its undergraduate programs are not as highly rated as the vast majority of the Big 10. To the extent that Ohio has another flagship, you need to look at Miami and Ohio U. Cincinnati doesn't fit the Big 10 at all.

I'm surprised that a Cincinnati fan wouldn't understand (or maybe you just refuse to acknowledge it) what IU and UK (and similarly futile football programs like Duke, UNC and Kansas) bring to a conference.

uh... Miami or Ohio? You realize UC draws bigger crowds than both schools? In fact UC doubles Miami's attendance and when the two teams meet this year at Oxford 1/2 the crowd will be UC fans.

As to UC's commuter image, they have spent a lot of money changing that (literally tens if not hundreds of million dollars). Every time I go to campus it changes. I went to school there in the early to mid 90s and come back every year for football/basketball. It is 100% different than that era and as I alluded to it is different than it was even a year ago. I don't have the numbers in front of me and I do not know what the official is for a school to no longer be considered a "commuter school" but UC has a lot more students living on and adjacent to campus than ever before.

(05-07-2013 05:50 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 08:25 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The number of P5 schools who "don't pull their weight" is exaggerated. Pretty much everyone brings something the conference needs. But for the sake of argument there are a handful of schools that meet all of the following:

-Rarely to never win any national titles and rarely to never win their conference in the Big 4 sports

-Are redundant in their market and bring no new TV viewers not already brought by another member

-Are guilty of both of the above but do not make up for it with exceptional academics or AAU status.

There's maybe 3-5 schools who meet all of the above criteria and none of the schools you mention meet that. They all bring several things their conferences want.

Be more specific 10th Mountain. I want to make it clear to you, I'm not upset or pushing for Cincinnati to replace these teams and I realize that many are in their respective conferences for reasons I may not know or understand. I'm simply putting this up for discussion. Mean no harm to current programs. I like Purdue and Indiana and have friends that have attended both schools. Certainly we would love for Cincinnati to be in one of these conferences, but that is not my point.

Purdue has dramatically declining football attendance to the point that Butch Jones (former Cincinnati coach) returned and told the Cincinnati newspapers how bad Purdue was at the time of the interview. He stated Purdue was in a poor position with respect to facilities, attendance and the over football team status.

Cincinnati is perfectly fit for the Big 10 but Ohio State would NEVER allow that to happen. The size of our research activities, enrollment, research patent income, types and sizes of colleges within the university (large medical school with large research facilities, large and well know Law School, Engineering at the doctorate level, Music and voice programs top of the ladder, tier one institution)are all in line with many Big 10 institutions not to mention our midwest loaction. We are not the main state school of Ohio, but the second largest in terms of enrollment and facilities with Akron a close third.

Actually Kent State is third. Akron is not that big. When you add up all their satellite branches they actually have a larger enrollment than UC.

[quote
uh... Miami or Ohio? You realize UC draws bigger crowds than both schools? In fact UC doubles Miami's attendance and when the two teams meet this year at Oxford 1/2 the crowd will be UC fans.

As to UC's commuter image, they have spent a lot of money changing that (literally tens if not hundreds of million dollars). Every time I go to campus it changes. I went to school there in the early to mid 90s and come back every year for football/basketball. It is 100% different than that era and as I alluded to it is different than it was even a year ago. I don't have the numbers in front of me and I do not know what the official is for a school to no longer be considered a "commuter school" but UC has a lot more students living on and adjacent to campus than ever before.
[/quote]

As a flagship, I'm talking undergraduate academics. Miami is one of the "public ivies." Ohio St. doesn't even normally make those "public ivy" lists. Both Miami and Ohio U. were founded decades before Ohio St. Cincinnati wasn't even a state university until 1977.

All this MAC crap just makes me want to vomit.

(05-07-2013 05:50 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 08:25 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The number of P5 schools who "don't pull their weight" is exaggerated. Pretty much everyone brings something the conference needs. But for the sake of argument there are a handful of schools that meet all of the following:

-Rarely to never win any national titles and rarely to never win their conference in the Big 4 sports

-Are redundant in their market and bring no new TV viewers not already brought by another member

-Are guilty of both of the above but do not make up for it with exceptional academics or AAU status.

There's maybe 3-5 schools who meet all of the above criteria and none of the schools you mention meet that. They all bring several things their conferences want.

Be more specific 10th Mountain. I want to make it clear to you, I'm not upset or pushing for Cincinnati to replace these teams and I realize that many are in their respective conferences for reasons I may not know or understand. I'm simply putting this up for discussion. Mean no harm to current programs. I like Purdue and Indiana and have friends that have attended both schools. Certainly we would love for Cincinnati to be in one of these conferences, but that is not my point.

I'll respond to 10th Mountain's criteria for an historical bottom feeder. Washington State, Oregon State, Kansas State (although they do have solid revenue). That's really it, and as has been mentioned, all of those schools would be much more valuable to another conference than to their existing because of new markets. Ole Miss and Mississippi State are just good enough every once in a while in football and basketball and are usually good in baseball, but they are consistently lowest in academics and revenue. If we could time machine, it would have made sense for WA, OR, KS, and MS to rally behind their flagship schools and let the state schools do the MWC/CUSA thing. All the original BIG schools are top notch academically, and so is Wake Forest.

(05-05-2013 04:57 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  This thread is sad.

They are grandfathered into where they are and even the big conferences need their conference whipping boys.

(05-07-2013 05:50 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 08:25 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The number of P5 schools who "don't pull their weight" is exaggerated. Pretty much everyone brings something the conference needs. But for the sake of argument there are a handful of schools that meet all of the following:

-Rarely to never win any national titles and rarely to never win their conference in the Big 4 sports

-Are redundant in their market and bring no new TV viewers not already brought by another member

-Are guilty of both of the above but do not make up for it with exceptional academics or AAU status.

There's maybe 3-5 schools who meet all of the above criteria and none of the schools you mention meet that. They all bring several things their conferences want.

Be more specific 10th Mountain. I want to make it clear to you, I'm not upset or pushing for Cincinnati to replace these teams and I realize that many are in their respective conferences for reasons I may not know or understand. I'm simply putting this up for discussion. Mean no harm to current programs. I like Purdue and Indiana and have friends that have attended both schools. Certainly we would love for Cincinnati to be in one of these conferences, but that is not my point.

Purdue has dramatically declining football attendance to the point that Butch Jones (former Cincinnati coach) returned and told the Cincinnati newspapers how bad Purdue was at the time of the interview. He stated Purdue was in a poor position with respect to facilities, attendance and the over football team status.

Cincinnati is perfectly fit for the Big 10 but Ohio State would NEVER allow that to happen. The size of our research activities, enrollment, research patent income, types and sizes of colleges within the university (large medical school with large research facilities, large and well know Law School, Engineering at the doctorate level, Music and voice programs top of the ladder, tier one institution)are all in line with many Big 10 institutions not to mention our midwest loaction. We are not the main state school of Ohio, but the second largest in terms of enrollment and facilities with Akron a close third.

Purdue has dramatically declining football attendance to the point that Butch Jones (former Cincinnati coach) returned and told the Cincinnati newspapers how bad Purdue was at the time of the interview. He stated Purdue was in a poor position with respect to facilities, attendance and the over football team status.

Please don't tell Cleanface about this.... he won't like it at all.

(05-06-2013 08:52 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  If you want to make it more interesting avoid making the easy guess of EMU and rationalize somebody else. That would be far more interesting.

Well, to be fair this is the MAC we are talking about, so FB, BBall and Baseball all have to be included in the run-up.

Baseball is pretty easy, the championships the last decade have been Kent State x6, EMU x2, MiamiU and Ball State.

FB, lets take the division champions of the past decade, we get Kent State, Northern Illinois, Ohio, Toledo, Miami, Central Michigan, Buffalo, Ball State, Bowling Green, Akron.

BB, lets take the division champions of the past decade and tournament winners, we get Akron, EMU, Kent State, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Bowling Green, Buffalo, Ball State, Toledo, Ohio, Miami.

So we get:

Buffalo (FB, BB), Kent State (FB, BB, Baseball), Akron (FB, BB), OhioU (FB, BB), MiamU (FB, BB, Baseball), Bowling Green (FB, BB), Toledo (FB, BB), EMU (BB, Baseball), CMU (FB, BB), WMU (BB), Ball State (FB, BB, Baseball), Northern Illinois (FB)

OK, so UMass. Except they are FB-only and really too soon to tell ~ you have to give FCS call-ups at least three to four years to find their legs before writing them off.

That's the thing with a competition like the MAC ... sooner or later, every dog has his day.

(05-07-2013 12:21 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Please don't tell Cleanface about this.... he won't like it at all.

I love how I've been here for 1.5 days and I already own your dome.
Second post in this thread directed at me. Nice.

PU football has gone down recently bc Danny Hope was a complete DUD. We did just fine in the Joe Tiller years, look it up.

Also, the $100MM Mackey Arena expansion is also right next to Ross-Aide, so I'm not so sure about those comments from Butch Jones bc much of that expansion benefits ALL athletes. Much better facilities RE therapy, training, weight rooms, lounging, etc etc. Ross-Aide is aging, but I believe there are plans to improve the stadium as well.

PU hasn't really given a damn about athletics save BBall for the past several yrs. Everyone knows that. Hell, the ex-Pres Dr Frances Cordova almost keeled over when she had to pay Matt Painter $2MM when he threatened to go to Mizzou.

Now that (ex-Gov) Mitch Daniels is Pres, I believe he will realize the value of athletics to the overall Univ. I hope so. I have high hopes for our new coach Darell Hazell. PU is historically mid-pack FBall in the B1G, and I am hopeful we will improve that position over the next few years.

Not expecting Nattys, but it would be nice to get back to Bowls other than Detroit and Nashville.

(05-07-2013 02:04 PM)Cleanface Wrote:  

(05-07-2013 12:21 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Please don't tell Cleanface about this.... he won't like it at all.

I love how I've been here for 1.5 days and I already own your dome.
Second post in this thread directed at me. Nice.

PU football has gone down recently bc Danny Hope was a complete DUD. We did just fine in the Joe Tiller years, look it up.

Also, the $100MM Mackey Arena expansion is also right next to Ross-Aide, so I'm not so sure about those comments from Butch Jones bc much of that expansion benefits ALL athletes. Much better facilities RE therapy, training, weight rooms, lounging, etc etc. Ross-Aide is aging, but I believe there are plans to improve the stadium as well.

PU hasn't really given a damn about athletics save BBall for the past several yrs. Everyone knows that. Hell, the ex-Pres Dr Frances Cordova almost keeled over when she had to pay Matt Painter $2MM when he threatened to go to Mizzou.

Now that (ex-Gov) Mitch Daniels is Pres, I believe he will realize the value of athletics to the overall Univ. I hope so. I have high hopes for our new coach Darell Hazell. PU is historically mid-pack FBall in the B1G, and I am hopeful we will improve that position over the next few years.

Not expecting Nattys, but it would be nice to get back to Bowls other than Detroit and Nashville.

I am just joking with you Cleanface. We do that a lot on here... Purdue is a great school. I just saw the post and couldn't resist a little jab. Hell, the fans sit on big white rocks in the Mizzou end zone. It's all good.

(05-07-2013 02:02 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  That's the thing with a competition like the MAC ... sooner or later, every dog has his day.

Except EMU in football...

(05-07-2013 05:47 PM)mufanatehc Wrote:  

(05-07-2013 02:02 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  That's the thing with a competition like the MAC ... sooner or later, every dog has his day.

Except EMU in football...

Yes, their day more normally comes in the winter and the spring than in the fall. It took EMU 15 years after joining to win their first MAC FB championship, and since then it seems like they crossed that off their bucket list to concentrate on beating that school up north in baseball.

But a remark was made putting it on the "Big Four" sports, which I take it in the MAC would be FB, BBall, Baseball and Women's BBall, and EMU has two championships in baseball and two championships in women's BBall in the past decade, even if its success in the men's BBall conference tourney was in the 90's.

(05-07-2013 09:02 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-07-2013 05:50 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  

(05-05-2013 08:25 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The number of P5 schools who "don't pull their weight" is exaggerated. Pretty much everyone brings something the conference needs. But for the sake of argument there are a handful of schools that meet all of the following:

-Rarely to never win any national titles and rarely to never win their conference in the Big 4 sports

-Are redundant in their market and bring no new TV viewers not already brought by another member

-Are guilty of both of the above but do not make up for it with exceptional academics or AAU status.

There's maybe 3-5 schools who meet all of the above criteria and none of the schools you mention meet that. They all bring several things their conferences want.

Be more specific 10th Mountain. I want to make it clear to you, I'm not upset or pushing for Cincinnati to replace these teams and I realize that many are in their respective conferences for reasons I may not know or understand. I'm simply putting this up for discussion. Mean no harm to current programs. I like Purdue and Indiana and have friends that have attended both schools. Certainly we would love for Cincinnati to be in one of these conferences, but that is not my point.

Purdue has dramatically declining football attendance to the point that Butch Jones (former Cincinnati coach) returned and told the Cincinnati newspapers how bad Purdue was at the time of the interview. He stated Purdue was in a poor position with respect to facilities, attendance and the over football team status.

Cincinnati is perfectly fit for the Big 10 but Ohio State would NEVER allow that to happen. The size of our research activities, enrollment, research patent income, types and sizes of colleges within the university (large medical school with large research facilities, large and well know Law School, Engineering at the doctorate level, Music and voice programs top of the ladder, tier one institution)are all in line with many Big 10 institutions not to mention our midwest loaction. We are not the main state school of Ohio, but the second largest in terms of enrollment and facilities with Akron a close third.

Actually Kent State is third. Akron is not that big. When you add up all their satellite branches they actually have a larger enrollment than UC.

Thank you I figured I was going to have to clear that up.

And Andrewhere it is ok we all get the same feeling whenever you post something so don't worry. Maybe you would feel better if you make another thread talking about how you are going to jump off the USM band wagon? Normally I would say that is a terrible thing to say but USM just might be better off with you gone. I know it would make it easier for outsiders to see that you are not typical for an USM fan.