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MAC looking at Grant of rights?
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #41
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(04-25-2013 08:31 AM)bullet Wrote:  They've been working on Illinois State for a while

No... They have not...
04-26-2013 11:00 AM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #42
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(04-25-2013 09:19 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  This makes no m sense.

I don't see what a GOR accomplishes, since the MAC is already the most stable conference in FBS.

If things keep getting shaken up that stability will not last...
04-26-2013 11:01 AM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #43
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(04-26-2013 11:01 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-25-2013 09:19 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  This makes no m sense.

I don't see what a GOR accomplishes, since the MAC is already the most stable conference in FBS.

If things keep getting shaken up that stability will not last...

there's two ways to grow- improve your weaknesses, and improve your strengths. The MAC's two greatest strengths are its stability and its travelability(if that's a word). Making the MAC more stable builds on one of its strengths.
04-26-2013 01:05 PM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(04-26-2013 11:01 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-25-2013 09:19 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  This makes no m sense.

I don't see what a GOR accomplishes, since the MAC is already the most stable conference in FBS.

If things keep getting shaken up that stability will not last...

Thought things were supposed to settle down pretty much.
04-28-2013 04:47 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #45
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(04-28-2013 04:47 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  
(04-26-2013 11:01 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-25-2013 09:19 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  This makes no m sense.

I don't see what a GOR accomplishes, since the MAC is already the most stable conference in FBS.

If things keep getting shaken up that stability will not last...

Thought things were supposed to settle down pretty much.

The B1G's TV deal is up in 2016. There MAY be a push to get a couple of more schools in by the deadline.

Otherwise I wouldn't expect too much motion. The ACC and B12 don't have the votes to expand. SEC expansion power has been checkmated by the B12 and ACC grant of rights.
04-28-2013 03:40 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #46
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(04-25-2013 09:19 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  This makes no m sense.

I don't see what a GOR accomplishes, since the MAC is already the most stable conference in FBS.

Remember that the first Grant of Rights was not about conference stability ... it was about putting together a media deal.

For example, if the MAC was looking to put together a conference digital streaming package, then a grant of rights would be a normal part of putting something like that together.
04-28-2013 05:06 PM
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apex_pirate Offline
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Post: #47
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(04-25-2013 11:18 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  
(04-25-2013 10:25 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-25-2013 09:19 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  This makes no m sense.

I don't see what a GOR accomplishes, since the MAC is already the most stable conference in FBS.
Are they trying to force UMass' hand, and guarantee that there will be in fact 13 so there can be an add?
I was under the impression that the MAC contractually holds all the cards re UMass by virtue of the Temple move anyway.
Where would UMass go? I am not aware of the AAC clamoring for them, and it would take a pretty good deal to pull mbb from the sure thing that is the A10.

As far as a 14th, given the modest returns of the MAC media deal, why add another school at all and dilute the whole?

But, If as speculated above, the MAC does want to add, and no FBS program is available, then it will almost certainly go after a media market.
UD
Although physically on the periphery, Delaware is in fact in the Philly DMA, and thus would guarantee a MAC presence on cable in that market.

My take on Delaware AD Ziady's comments was not he is 100% committed to the CAA, but that he would consider anything except for the SBC.

Its really irrelevant. A GOR cant be enforced by a majority. It has to be unanomous. I guess they could kick out UMass if they dont sign it---but how does that help if the whole purpose is to keep everyone together?

It helps because it forces UMass to make a decision, football-only is an unsustainable relationship long term. If UMass leaves the MAC is back to a more natural 12, if they stay it would increase the likelihood of a long term relationship. The MAC doesn't want to be a stepping stone or a place for wayward programs to rehab.

I'm a fan of UMass in the MAC and hope they commit long term. A long term commitment would also make the MAC more attractive to adding a quality FBS program as #14 as opposed to adding an FCS call up.

I think it's multiple things. As Buckeye said, it is a natural for any kind of media package they may be putting together. But I also think they are trying to flush out UMASS' long term plans. A GOR may not hold down UMASS as the money just isn't there...but UMASS also knows that the AAC money is lots better and wouldn't want to sign anything that diminishes their returns (if they were to get invited). So, why not force the issue now? I'm sure anyone who is working on any media deal would want to know who the long term partners would be.
04-29-2013 07:37 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #48
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(04-29-2013 07:37 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  ... But I also think they are trying to flush out UMASS' long term plans. A GOR may not hold down UMASS as the money just isn't there...but UMASS also knows that the AAC money is lots better and wouldn't want to sign anything that diminishes their returns (if they were to get invited). ...
The way that it affects conference realignment is rather changing the benefit to the new conference. If The American were to invite UMass, it would surely be because a network has let it be know that UMass's position in a large media market makes it a worthwhile addition to the collection of games.

Not getting the rights to UMass's home games when UMass joined would drain a substantial amount of the upside of the add.
04-29-2013 07:45 AM
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Post: #49
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(04-25-2013 11:41 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I just don't see the AAC as currently constituted lasting more than a decade. Miami (OH) and the University of Ohio would not be bad adds for a reconfigured northeastern conference consisting of Temple, UMASS, James Madison, Delaware, etc. Some of those CAA and Patriot League schools have pretty high revenues (30 mil +/-) and could join to be a force if the Big 5 conferences ever split away. That grouping would be every bit as valuable as a reconfigured SWC everyone keeps hollering for (SMU, Houston, USM, Tulane, etc.) At the end of it, I just hope everyone ends up where they want and should be.

Although the following is off topic, I'm very curious.... What do you foresee happening that would cause the demise of the AAC? As long as C-USA and the SBC exist, the AAC isn't going anywhere. The schools that you've mentioned would never leave the AAC to end up here 01-swc - which is :swc: (check the smiles list)
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2013 08:35 AM by Underdog.)
05-02-2013 08:10 AM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #50
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
My comments are in bold:

(04-26-2013 10:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 04:53 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Actually in a weird way, that does make sense. None of the MAC schools will be moving to one of the power 5 conferences, but there is risk of Conference USA or the AAC competing for a member at somepoint or even the Sunbelt. Since it isn't clear who though and since the MAC as is is in pretty good condition, it might make sense to everyone to just lock down now.

The Sun Belt will not be taking a MAC school anytime soon... The Belt wants no part of a MAC School and no MAC school wants a part of the Belt..

The somewhat feasible MAC Targets (as in something that could happen in the next 5-10 years if a bunch of dominoes -performance / revenue / market - fall the right way) might be

NIU - MWC / AAC
Ohio - AAC (if Cincy leaves and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
UMass - AAC (if football vastly improves, UCONN leaves or Navy doesn't join, and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
Toledo - AAC (if Cincy leaves and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
Buffalo - AAC (if football vastly improves, UCONN leaves or Navy doesn't join, and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2013 09:04 AM by Underdog.)
05-02-2013 08:48 AM
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HuskieJohn Offline
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Post: #51
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(05-02-2013 08:48 AM)Underdog Wrote:  My comments are in bold:

(04-26-2013 10:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 04:53 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Actually in a weird way, that does make sense. None of the MAC schools will be moving to one of the power 5 conferences, but there is risk of Conference USA or the AAC competing for a member at somepoint or even the Sunbelt. Since it isn't clear who though and since the MAC as is is in pretty good condition, it might make sense to everyone to just lock down now.

The Sun Belt will not be taking a MAC school anytime soon... The Belt wants no part of a MAC School and no MAC school wants a part of the Belt..

The somewhat feasible MAC Targets (as in something that could happen in the next 5-10 years if a bunch of dominoes -performance / revenue / market - fall the right way) might be

NIU - MWC / AAC
Ohio - AAC (if Cincy leaves and the AAC doens't want to add more C-USA schools)
UMass - AAC (if football vastly improves, UCONN leaves or Navy doesn't join, and the AAC doens't want to add more C-USA schools)
Toledo - AAC (if Cincy leaves and the AAC doens't want to add more C-USA schools)
Buffalo - AAC (if football vastly improves, UCONN leaves or Navy doesn't join, and the AAC doens't want to add more C-USA schools)

The only way NIU leaves for the AAC is with 3 additional MAC schools...Toledo, Ball St/WMU/Miami and Buffalo/UMASS/Ohio.

We wont be leaving for the MWC in the next 10 years without some major move on the MAC/CUSA/Sun Belt.
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2013 08:56 AM by HuskieJohn.)
05-02-2013 08:53 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #52
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(05-02-2013 08:10 AM)Underdog Wrote:  
(04-25-2013 11:41 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  I just don't see the AAC as currently constituted lasting more than a decade. Miami (OH) and the University of Ohio would not be bad adds for a reconfigured northeastern conference consisting of Temple, UMASS, James Madison, Delaware, etc. Some of those CAA and Patriot League schools have pretty high revenues (30 mil +/-) and could join to be a force if the Big 5 conferences ever split away. That grouping would be every bit as valuable as a reconfigured SWC everyone keeps hollering for (SMU, Houston, USM, Tulane, etc.) At the end of it, I just hope everyone ends up where they want and should be.

Although the following is off topic, I'm very curious.... What do you foresee happening that would cause the demise of the AAC? As long as C-USA and the SBC exist, the AAC isn't going anywhere. The schools that you've mentioned would never leave the AAC to end up here 01-swc - which is :swc: (check the smiles list)

I don't think the AAC is going anywhere with that TV deal they have in place. They can take any school from the MAC, CUSA or SBC they want to backfill and there are still 5-10 promising candidates out there.

The next round of raiding I think will be on the B12 once the GOR is up in 2023. The B1G goes after Kansas and Missouri to maximize Nebraska. The SEC backfills with Oklahoma State. Bevo is caught with its pants down and forced to beg for PAC membership. The ACC takes advantage of WVU being out on a island and expands to 16.
05-02-2013 08:55 AM
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HuskieJohn Offline
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Post: #53
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(05-02-2013 08:55 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I don't think the AAC is going anywhere with that TV deal they have in place. They can take any school from the MAC, CUSA or SBC they want to backfill and there are still 5-10 promising candidates out there.

The next round of raiding I think will be on the B12 once the GOR is up in 2023. The B1G goes after Kansas and Missouri to maximize Nebraska. The SEC backfills with Oklahoma State. Bevo is caught with its pants down and forced to beg for PAC membership. The ACC takes advantage of WVU being out on a island and expands to 16.

That is the point of the GOR for the MAC. That takes our 12-13 teams out of their backfill candidates. That basically limits the ACC to So Miss, ULL and F_U if UCF & USF get taken by the B12.

The more I think about it the more I am liking the possibility.
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2013 09:00 AM by HuskieJohn.)
05-02-2013 08:59 AM
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Post: #54
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(05-02-2013 08:53 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  
(05-02-2013 08:48 AM)Underdog Wrote:  My comments are in bold:

(04-26-2013 10:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 04:53 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Actually in a weird way, that does make sense. None of the MAC schools will be moving to one of the power 5 conferences, but there is risk of Conference USA or the AAC competing for a member at somepoint or even the Sunbelt. Since it isn't clear who though and since the MAC as is is in pretty good condition, it might make sense to everyone to just lock down now.

The Sun Belt will not be taking a MAC school anytime soon... The Belt wants no part of a MAC School and no MAC school wants a part of the Belt..

The somewhat feasible MAC Targets (as in something that could happen in the next 5-10 years if a bunch of dominoes -performance / revenue / market - fall the right way) might be

NIU - MWC / AAC
Ohio - AAC (if Cincy leaves and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
UMass - AAC (if football vastly improves, UCONN leaves or Navy doesn't join, and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
Toledo - AAC (if Cincy leaves and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
Buffalo - AAC (if football vastly improves, UCONN leaves or Navy doesn't join, and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)

The only way NIU leaves for the AAC is with 3 additional MAC schools...Toledo, Ball St/WMU/Miami and Buffalo/UMASS/Ohio.

We wont be leaving for the MWC in the next 10 years without some major move on the MAC/CUSA/Sun Belt.

So you strong believe that if the AAC invited NIU, Toledo, and UMASS because it lost several schools (UCONN, Cincy, and Navy doesn't join), NIU would turn down the invite because one additional MAC school wasn't invited? Why does it have to be three additional MAC schools?
05-02-2013 09:15 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #55
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(05-02-2013 08:53 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  
(05-02-2013 08:48 AM)Underdog Wrote:  My comments are in bold:

(04-26-2013 10:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 04:53 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Actually in a weird way, that does make sense. None of the MAC schools will be moving to one of the power 5 conferences, but there is risk of Conference USA or the AAC competing for a member at somepoint or even the Sunbelt. Since it isn't clear who though and since the MAC as is is in pretty good condition, it might make sense to everyone to just lock down now.

The Sun Belt will not be taking a MAC school anytime soon... The Belt wants no part of a MAC School and no MAC school wants a part of the Belt..

The somewhat feasible MAC Targets (as in something that could happen in the next 5-10 years if a bunch of dominoes -performance / revenue / market - fall the right way) might be

NIU - MWC / AAC
Ohio - AAC (if Cincy leaves and the AAC doens't want to add more C-USA schools)
UMass - AAC (if football vastly improves, UCONN leaves or Navy doesn't join, and the AAC doens't want to add more C-USA schools)
Toledo - AAC (if Cincy leaves and the AAC doens't want to add more C-USA schools)
Buffalo - AAC (if football vastly improves, UCONN leaves or Navy doesn't join, and the AAC doens't want to add more C-USA schools)

The only way NIU leaves for the AAC is with 3 additional MAC schools...Toledo, Ball St/WMU/Miami and Buffalo/UMASS/Ohio.

We wont be leaving for the MWC in the next 10 years without some major move on the MAC/CUSA/Sun Belt.

It all comes down to who is the most logical replacement school when an AAC school departs.

Houston/SMU/Tulane/Rice/Memphis-> Rice

Rice fits the AAC mold well with its academics.

Temple/ECU/UCF/USF-> Old Dominion

ODU would be a logical add in the East but only IF the East is knocked back to 5 members. Right now the East has 7 members, Cincinnati, Temple, UConn, Navy, ECU, USF, UCF.

If Cincinnati left it would still make more sense for the conference to add Rice to balance the FB divisions East/West at 6 members each.

The problem with MAC schools like Ohio (24k) and Toledo (26k) is that the smallest stadium in the AAC is 30,000 seats and they are smaller than that. The academics are good enough at those schools to be considered but they don't have the stadiums.

Rice (40k) and ODU (planned 35k) are more viable for this reason, IMO.
05-02-2013 09:16 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #56
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(05-02-2013 09:15 AM)Underdog Wrote:  
(05-02-2013 08:53 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  
(05-02-2013 08:48 AM)Underdog Wrote:  My comments are in bold:

(04-26-2013 10:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 04:53 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Actually in a weird way, that does make sense. None of the MAC schools will be moving to one of the power 5 conferences, but there is risk of Conference USA or the AAC competing for a member at somepoint or even the Sunbelt. Since it isn't clear who though and since the MAC as is is in pretty good condition, it might make sense to everyone to just lock down now.

The Sun Belt will not be taking a MAC school anytime soon... The Belt wants no part of a MAC School and no MAC school wants a part of the Belt..

The somewhat feasible MAC Targets (as in something that could happen in the next 5-10 years if a bunch of dominoes -performance / revenue / market - fall the right way) might be

NIU - MWC / AAC
Ohio - AAC (if Cincy leaves and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
UMass - AAC (if football vastly improves, UCONN leaves or Navy doesn't join, and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
Toledo - AAC (if Cincy leaves and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
Buffalo - AAC (if football vastly improves, UCONN leaves or Navy doesn't join, and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)

The only way NIU leaves for the AAC is with 3 additional MAC schools...Toledo, Ball St/WMU/Miami and Buffalo/UMASS/Ohio.

We wont be leaving for the MWC in the next 10 years without some major move on the MAC/CUSA/Sun Belt.

So you strong believe that if the AAC invited NIU, Toledo, and UMASS because it lost several schools (UCONN, Cincy, and Navy doesn't join), NIU would turn down the invite because one additional MAC school wasn't invited? Why does it have to be three additional MAC schools?

NIU is not too high on the AAC radar. They are a central timezone school that would have to go in the West division. Unless they become a regular top 20 program like Boise State.
05-02-2013 09:20 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #57
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
AAC candidates ranked in order

1) Army (if available the AAC expands)
2) Rice (academics and to balance the west division at 6)
3) ODU (potential 35k seater and rival for ECU)
4) UTSA (I could see this if the west is raided in 10 years)
5) Marshall (rival for ECU and 38k stadium)
6) Georgia State (May be ready in 10 years)
7) Florida Int. (If both UCF/USF leave)
8) UMass (If UConn left AND they build a strong program)

I don't see the core 12 MAC schools going anywhere because of low travel costs and smaller stadiums. I think even UMass only has a 50/50 shot at leaving in the next 10 years.

If the B12 melts down and Iowa State or Baylor is available I'm sure the AAC will do what it can to scoop them up. The AAC may not even have to rely on other G5 leagues for candidates.
05-02-2013 09:34 AM
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HuskieJohn Offline
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Post: #58
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
(05-02-2013 09:15 AM)Underdog Wrote:  
(05-02-2013 08:53 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  
(05-02-2013 08:48 AM)Underdog Wrote:  My comments are in bold:

(04-26-2013 10:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 04:53 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Actually in a weird way, that does make sense. None of the MAC schools will be moving to one of the power 5 conferences, but there is risk of Conference USA or the AAC competing for a member at somepoint or even the Sunbelt. Since it isn't clear who though and since the MAC as is is in pretty good condition, it might make sense to everyone to just lock down now.

The Sun Belt will not be taking a MAC school anytime soon... The Belt wants no part of a MAC School and no MAC school wants a part of the Belt..

The somewhat feasible MAC Targets (as in something that could happen in the next 5-10 years if a bunch of dominoes -performance / revenue / market - fall the right way) might be

NIU - MWC / AAC
Ohio - AAC (if Cincy leaves and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
UMass - AAC (if football vastly improves, UCONN leaves or Navy doesn't join, and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
Toledo - AAC (if Cincy leaves and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)
Buffalo - AAC (if football vastly improves, UCONN leaves or Navy doesn't join, and the AAC doesn't want to add more C-USA schools)

The only way NIU leaves for the AAC is with 3 additional MAC schools...Toledo, Ball St/WMU/Miami and Buffalo/UMASS/Ohio.

We wont be leaving for the MWC in the next 10 years without some major move on the MAC/CUSA/Sun Belt.

So you strong believe that if the AAC invited NIU, Toledo, and UMASS because it lost several schools (UCONN, Cincy, and Navy doesn't join), NIU would turn down the invite because one additional MAC school wasn't invited? Why does it have to be three additional MAC schools?

Well I would have said without a doubt with our old president and AD. We will have to see where our new President and AD stand.

Side note: I think that USF and UC will be picked up by the B12 in the next 2 seasons. With that the current AAC/ESPN TV contract can be terminated or likely greatly reduced to CUSA numbers.

With those assumptions looking at the conference overall; NIU, Toledo, Temple, UMASS, ECU, Houston, Tulsa, SMU, Tulane, Memphis, UCF and UCONN, I don't see enough money to pay the MAC exit fee, entry fee into the AAC and then pay for everyone to fly.

We are a bus league and we would do better with out UMASS at 12 or with Temple at 14.
05-02-2013 10:09 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #59
RE: MAC looking at Grant of rights?
UMass and Buffalo are the only schools that would make a move IMO. The others are better off in the MAC. There's little difference in TV money, and the extra travel isn't worth giving up all that history...
05-02-2013 11:45 AM
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