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Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-23-2013 06:46 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  B1G could go with Missouri and Vanderbilt, as Tennessee and Missouri are contiguous. If it happened Georgia probably has to come along with Florida to get to 18. The XII probably then picks up LSU, A&M, Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, and Ole Miss.

Of course that option is off the table if the SEC gets a GOR, which probably will happen with the new cable network.
The option is off the table because the Big Ten is not going to be able to raid the SEC (and visa versa), for multiple reasons. Adding another reason it can't happen (an SEC Grant of Rights) doesn't take it off the table, since it was never on the table in the first place.

Here's the Best Big Ten expansion fit, as of today: Johns Hopkins brings all of their D1 sports into the Big Ten, to play men's and women's Lacrosse.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2013 02:51 PM by BruceMcF.)
04-24-2013 02:47 PM
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bigblueblindness Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-24-2013 01:58 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 01:32 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 01:26 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  B1G adds KU and Vanderbilt.
Pac12 adds Texas, OU, OSU, and TTech
SEC takes whatever they want from the rest
ACC tries to keep its football schools from the SEC and adds teams like UConn, Cinncinati, and West Virginia. Maybe Memphis. Who really knows.
Well this theory will certainly keep the realignment board alive...04-cheers

Note the lack of a time-table. It might take 15 years for this to happen, but I think this is how it will go.

With the way The Realignment Turns has occurred over the last 5 years, I think we can conclude on some principles for the big conferences. All of these arguments exclude the University of Texas and Florida, whom anyone would take, principles be damned:

BIG - Only taking flagship AAU members in contiguous states. A private AAU school like Duke or Vandy could be taken if required to get to a desired number, but they are not jumping ahead of any flagship. (Future considerations in loose order or BIG appeal: UNC, UVA, Mizzou, Kansas, Duke, Vandy)

SEC - Only taking flagship in contiguous states. (UNC, UVA, Oklahoma, Kansas, West Virginia)

PAC - No one west of the Texas-Dakota line. High profile flagship or state schools (OU, Kansas, Ok. State, Kansas State, Texas Tech)

Big 12 - Who knows. I see no good options.

ACC - Whatever they have to do (Compromising on Louisville academics says a lot.)
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2013 04:15 PM by bigblueblindness.)
04-24-2013 04:10 PM
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College Basketball Fan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-24-2013 04:10 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 01:58 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 01:32 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 01:26 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  B1G adds KU and Vanderbilt.
Pac12 adds Texas, OU, OSU, and TTech
SEC takes whatever they want from the rest
ACC tries to keep its football schools from the SEC and adds teams like UConn, Cinncinati, and West Virginia. Maybe Memphis. Who really knows.
Well this theory will certainly keep the realignment board alive...04-cheers

Note the lack of a time-table. It might take 15 years for this to happen, but I think this is how it will go.

With the way The Realignment Turns has occurred over the last 5 years, I think we can conclude on some principles for the big conferences. All of these arguments exclude the University of Texas and Florida, whom anyone would take, principles be damned:

BIG - Only taking flagship AAU members in contiguous states. A private AAU school like Duke or Vandy could be taken if required to get to a desired number, but they are not jumping ahead of any flagship. (Future considerations in loose order or BIG appeal: UNC, UVA, Mizzou, Kansas, Duke, Vandy)

SEC - Only taking flagship in contiguous states. (UNC, UVA, Oklahoma, Kansas, West Virginia)

PAC - No one west of the Texas-Dakota line. High profile flagship or state schools (OU, Kansas, Ok. State, Kansas State, Texas Tech)

Big 12 - Who knows. I see no good options.

ACC - Whatever they have to do (Compromising on Louisville academics says a lot.)

I'm operating on a few assumptions:

1. Eventually one of the Power5 will crack and disintegrate
2. The Big 12 is the most likely to break up for a variety of factors (time-table on GoR included)
3. If the Big 12 breaks up, it will NOT be Texas making the first move.
4. KU is the only real option in the Big 12 to leave to the B1G (AAU, continuous states principle)
5. If KU leaves, the Big 12 is more likely to split apart than stay together.

So basically you have KU to the B1G and Texoma to the Pac16. Then:

6. If we need 4 power conferences, the ACC cannot blow up at the same time as the Big 12.
7. With no ACC members leaving for the B1G, Vanderbilt is the only choice to offset KU
8. The SEC would be able to pick and choose from Big 12 and smaller conferences teams to replace Vanderbilt. Maybe a team like KState?

If #6 and #7 aren't true, then the SEC/B1G will probably raid the ACC. That would mean:

9. UVA/Duke/UNC to the B1G/SEC
10. UConn/Cincinnati/WVU? to the ACC to make up for the losses

I'm not sure where the Baylorss and TCUs of the Big 12 will go. Probably somewhere like the AAC. I certainly don't see them jumping from one sinking ship to the Pac 16 or SEC. I do think Texas/Oklahoma/OSU are a package deal, and wouldn't be surprised to see Texas Tech included as well (otherwise, expect a Boise State or BYU).
04-24-2013 05:17 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-24-2013 05:17 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 04:10 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 01:58 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 01:32 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 01:26 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  B1G adds KU and Vanderbilt.
Pac12 adds Texas, OU, OSU, and TTech
SEC takes whatever they want from the rest
ACC tries to keep its football schools from the SEC and adds teams like UConn, Cinncinati, and West Virginia. Maybe Memphis. Who really knows.
Well this theory will certainly keep the realignment board alive...04-cheers

Note the lack of a time-table. It might take 15 years for this to happen, but I think this is how it will go.

With the way The Realignment Turns has occurred over the last 5 years, I think we can conclude on some principles for the big conferences. All of these arguments exclude the University of Texas and Florida, whom anyone would take, principles be damned:

BIG - Only taking flagship AAU members in contiguous states. A private AAU school like Duke or Vandy could be taken if required to get to a desired number, but they are not jumping ahead of any flagship. (Future considerations in loose order or BIG appeal: UNC, UVA, Mizzou, Kansas, Duke, Vandy)

SEC - Only taking flagship in contiguous states. (UNC, UVA, Oklahoma, Kansas, West Virginia)

PAC - No one west of the Texas-Dakota line. High profile flagship or state schools (OU, Kansas, Ok. State, Kansas State, Texas Tech)

Big 12 - Who knows. I see no good options.

ACC - Whatever they have to do (Compromising on Louisville academics says a lot.)

I'm operating on a few assumptions:

1. Eventually one of the Power5 will crack and disintegrate
2. The Big 12 is the most likely to break up for a variety of factors (time-table on GoR included)
3. If the Big 12 breaks up, it will NOT be Texas making the first move.
4. KU is the only real option in the Big 12 to leave to the B1G (AAU, continuous states principle)
5. If KU leaves, the Big 12 is more likely to split apart than stay together.

So basically you have KU to the B1G and Texoma to the Pac16. Then:

6. If we need 4 power conferences, the ACC cannot blow up at the same time as the Big 12.
7. With no ACC members leaving for the B1G, Vanderbilt is the only choice to offset KU
8. The SEC would be able to pick and choose from Big 12 and smaller conferences teams to replace Vanderbilt. Maybe a team like KState?

If #6 and #7 aren't true, then the SEC/B1G will probably raid the ACC. That would mean:

9. UVA/Duke/UNC to the B1G/SEC
10. UConn/Cincinnati/WVU? to the ACC to make up for the losses

I'm not sure where the Baylorss and TCUs of the Big 12 will go. Probably somewhere like the AAC. I certainly don't see them jumping from one sinking ship to the Pac 16 or SEC. I do think Texas/Oklahoma/OSU are a package deal, and wouldn't be surprised to see Texas Tech included as well (otherwise, expect a Boise State or BYU).
Or if OU jumps to the SEC and then Texas will be the next out the door. Then the B1G will move in and take Kansas.
04-24-2013 05:57 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-24-2013 05:57 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Or if OU jumps to the SEC and then Texas will be the next out the door. Then the B1G will move in and take Kansas.
I can see why the SEC would take OU if it would net them Texas.

Why would the Big Ten take Kansas versus doing nothing? Doing nothing would bring more money per school.
04-24-2013 06:13 PM
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bigblueblindness Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-24-2013 05:17 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 04:10 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 01:58 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 01:32 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  [quote='College Basketball Fan' pid='9265250' dateline='1366827977']
B1G adds KU and Vanderbilt.
Pac12 adds Texas, OU, OSU, and TTech
SEC takes whatever they want from the rest
ACC tries to keep its football schools from the SEC and adds teams like UConn, Cinncinati, and West Virginia. Maybe Memphis. Who really knows.
Well this theory will certainly keep the realignment board alive...04-cheers

Note the lack of a time-table. It might take 15 years for this to happen, but I think this is how it will go.


I'm operating on a few assumptions:

1. Eventually one of the Power5 will crack and disintegrate
2. The Big 12 is the most likely to break up for a variety of factors (time-table on GoR included)
3. If the Big 12 breaks up, it will NOT be Texas making the first move.
4. KU is the only real option in the Big 12 to leave to the B1G (AAU, continuous states principle)
5. If KU leaves, the Big 12 is more likely to split apart than stay together.

So basically you have KU to the B1G and Texoma to the Pac16. Then:

6. If we need 4 power conferences, the ACC cannot blow up at the same time as the Big 12.
7. With no ACC members leaving for the B1G, Vanderbilt is the only choice to offset KU
8. The SEC would be able to pick and choose from Big 12 and smaller conferences teams to replace Vanderbilt. Maybe a team like KState?

If #6 and #7 aren't true, then the SEC/B1G will probably raid the ACC. That would mean:

9. UVA/Duke/UNC to the B1G/SEC
10. UConn/Cincinnati/WVU? to the ACC to make up for the losses

I'm not sure where the Baylorss and TCUs of the Big 12 will go. Probably somewhere like the AAC. I certainly don't see them jumping from one sinking ship to the Pac 16 or SEC. I do think Texas/Oklahoma/OSU are a package deal, and wouldn't be surprised to see Texas Tech included as well (otherwise, expect a Boise State or BYU).

Agreed that it would be the Big 12 to break up if one conference were to drop, but not necessarily on who goes where. I don't think Vandy goes to the Big if they are stuck on a southern island. If Duke and others go along to the BIG, maybe, but Vandy will not go alone. The SEC's ideal scenario would be to get UNC/OU or UNC/UVA and be done. If Vandy or Mizzou (or both) did leave for some reason, I think the SEC pecking order (excluding Texas) would be UNC, OU, UVA, WVU. They want flagships. I do not see them taking a State school under any circumstance. They already had that chance and passed.

Baylor and TCU would not be a bad fit for the ACC if Miami, Wake Forest, Duke, and the southern state schools remain. Both are well over 60 mil revenue and top 100 schools. I want to say both are top 80, but I can't remember. Being in the Dallas and Houston markets can't hurt, either.
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2013 09:08 AM by bigblueblindness.)
04-25-2013 08:49 AM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-24-2013 06:13 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 05:57 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Or if OU jumps to the SEC and then Texas will be the next out the door. Then the B1G will move in and take Kansas.
I can see why the SEC would take OU if it would net them Texas.

Why would the Big Ten take Kansas versus doing nothing? Doing nothing would bring more money per school.
response #1: OU does not need UT for an SEC move. The SEC does not need UT to invite OU. They could take both Oklahoma U's.

response#2: The B1G might still take Kansas along with one more eastern school. If they can't land two, they might manage to land at least one eastern school.04-cheers
04-25-2013 09:19 AM
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bigblueblindness Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-25-2013 09:19 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 06:13 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(04-24-2013 05:57 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Or if OU jumps to the SEC and then Texas will be the next out the door. Then the B1G will move in and take Kansas.
I can see why the SEC would take OU if it would net them Texas.

Why would the Big Ten take Kansas versus doing nothing? Doing nothing would bring more money per school.
response #1: OU does not need UT for an SEC move. The SEC does not need UT to invite OU. They could take both Oklahoma U's.

response#2: The B1G might still take Kansas along with one more eastern school. If they can't land two, they might manage to land at least one eastern school.04-cheers

Agreed. OU stands on its own, at least from this SEC fan's point of view. If the SEC could land UNC and OU, I would be one happy camper. I know UT is a cash cow, but I think the dynamics of the conference would be stronger overall without them. Although, I would like to see Texas try to tell Bama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, TAMU, and Tennessee what the SEC will and will not be doing. They would need to Pay Per View that first conference meeting. Same if Texas were to get into the BIG and tell Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Nebraska how things are going to be.
04-25-2013 09:57 AM
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eagleriffic Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
OU & OK State are joined at the hip & will go together as a package deal. Texas A&M will do what they can to keep Texas out of the $ec. They finally get away from the Longhorns & i dont see them geting back together in the $ec.

The baylors, tcus & so on will be taken by the aac, acc & possibly cusa.
04-25-2013 10:00 AM
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brista21 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-23-2013 06:09 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  If we're including schools that aren't Division 1 (and it seems we are), I'd go with NYU.

- Large private school
- #1 media market
- AAU member with significant research

University of Chicago (former member) would be #2 for many of the same reasons.

If we're focused on FBS members only, University of Florida would be the top choice.

Ironically NYU and Chicago are in the same Division III conference: the University Athletic Association all of which are AAU members.
04-25-2013 10:09 AM
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CK42NC Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-25-2013 10:00 AM)eagleriffic Wrote:  OU & OK State are joined at the hip & will go together as a package deal. Texas A&M will do what they can to keep Texas out of the $ec. They finally get away from the Longhorns & i dont see them geting back together in the $ec.

The baylors, tcus & so on will be taken by the aac, acc & possibly cusa.

I agree somewhat, I would fill like this:

I still see 4 POWER 16

PAC 16- TEXAS, OK ST., KANSAS , UNLV

BIG 16- MISSOURI, UCONN

ACC 16- CINCY, NAVY- Football Only (until ND commits full)

SEC 16- OKLAHOMA, WVU, KANSAS ST.

Everyone else find a can find a spot where they can that makes sense for them.
04-25-2013 12:19 PM
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CK42NC Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-25-2013 12:19 PM)CK42NC Wrote:  
(04-25-2013 10:00 AM)eagleriffic Wrote:  OU & OK State are joined at the hip & will go together as a package deal. Texas A&M will do what they can to keep Texas out of the $ec. They finally get away from the Longhorns & i dont see them geting back together in the $ec.

The baylors, tcus & so on will be taken by the aac, acc & possibly cusa.

I agree somewhat, I would fill like this:

I still see 4 POWER 16

PAC 16- TEXAS, OK ST., KANSAS , UNLV

BIG 16- MISSOURI, UCONN

ACC 16- CINCY, NAVY- Football Only (until ND commits full)

SEC 16- OKLAHOMA, WVU, KANSAS ST.

Everyone else find a can find a spot where they can that makes sense for them.
That being said I don't know much about the OU/OKST situation either!?
04-25-2013 12:22 PM
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bigblueblindness Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-25-2013 12:22 PM)CK42NC Wrote:  
(04-25-2013 12:19 PM)CK42NC Wrote:  
(04-25-2013 10:00 AM)eagleriffic Wrote:  OU & OK State are joined at the hip & will go together as a package deal. Texas A&M will do what they can to keep Texas out of the $ec. They finally get away from the Longhorns & i dont see them geting back together in the $ec.

The baylors, tcus & so on will be taken by the aac, acc & possibly cusa.

I agree somewhat, I would fill like this:

I still see 4 POWER 16

PAC 16- TEXAS, OK ST., KANSAS , UNLV

BIG 16- MISSOURI, UCONN

ACC 16- CINCY, NAVY- Football Only (until ND commits full)

SEC 16- OKLAHOMA, WVU, KANSAS ST.

Everyone else find a can find a spot where they can that makes sense for them.
That being said I don't know much about the OU/OKST situation either!?

You can bet the farm that neither the SEC or BIG will ever accept a Big 12 school with "State" in the name, regardless of how it is packaged. The PAC is the Oklahoma and Kansas schools' best bet to stay together.
04-25-2013 12:50 PM
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bluesox Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
Yeah, the only "state" school that can move solo is FSU, can't see Kan state or Okla state moving up without big brother. How about this for the ACC end game dream:

Atlantic: BC, cuse, pitt, Lville, G tech, FSU, Miami, ND

Coastal: unc, duke, nc state, wake, uva, va tech, clemson, Texas


KU, missouri to the big 10
OU, Ok state, and Texas tech or tcu to the sec
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2013 01:29 PM by bluesox.)
04-25-2013 01:26 PM
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bigblueblindness Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-25-2013 01:26 PM)bluesox Wrote:  Yeah, the only "state" school that can move solo is FSU, can't see Kan state or Okla state moving up without big brother. How about this for the ACC end game dream:

Atlantic: BC, cuse, pitt, Lville, G tech, FSU, Miami, ND

Coastal: unc, duke, nc state, wake, uva, va tech, clemson, Texas


KU, missouri to the big 10
OU, Ok state, and Texas tech or tcu to the sec

Dream for the ACC, nightmare for the SEC.
04-25-2013 01:44 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-24-2013 05:17 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  I'm operating on a few assumptions:

1. Eventually one of the Power5 will crack and disintegrate
Bear in mind that if this is an under 50% chance, then every additional assumption added underneath this assumption drives the odds of the scenario that much further into long shot territory.

Its just as possible that the pressure on the conferences eases up in the 2020's, so by the time the Big12 GOR is coming up for renewable or for the Big12 to be torn apart, the forces tending to tear things apart have ebbed.
04-25-2013 04:21 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-25-2013 01:44 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  
(04-25-2013 01:26 PM)bluesox Wrote:  Yeah, the only "state" school that can move solo is FSU, can't see Kan state or Okla state moving up without big brother. How about this for the ACC end game dream:

Atlantic: BC, cuse, pitt, Lville, G tech, FSU, Miami, ND

Coastal: unc, duke, nc state, wake, uva, va tech, clemson, Texas


KU, missouri to the big 10
OU, Ok state, and Texas tech or tcu to the sec

Dream for the ACC, nightmare for the SEC.
The Pac for KAN/KSU and OU/OKST make sense to me.
and if the ACC can pull off Texas!
Let's just say heads will be turned to the east coast!!!!
04-25-2013 10:47 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-25-2013 01:44 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  
(04-25-2013 01:26 PM)bluesox Wrote:  Yeah, the only "state" school that can move solo is FSU, can't see Kan state or Okla state moving up without big brother. How about this for the ACC end game dream:

Atlantic: BC, cuse, pitt, Lville, G tech, FSU, Miami, ND

Coastal: unc, duke, nc state, wake, uva, va tech, clemson, Texas


KU, missouri to the big 10
OU, Ok state, and Texas tech or tcu to the sec

Dream for the ACC, nightmare for the SEC.

Why would this happen?
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2013 07:03 AM by TerryD.)
04-26-2013 07:03 AM
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bluesox Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
It could happen in a "Acc dream" or texas gets a ND type deal for indy football. Yet, I doubt it happens since i think texas would want to stick with some of its friends. My guess is if texas moves they go to the pac 10. It might be more likely its a pac 20 than a pac 16. I could see all the old pac 10 school's like a pac 20 and to create it those 10 school's have the votes to send utah and colorado east. For a pac 16 to happen, getting 9 out of the current 12 pac 12 school's to vote for it might be hard.

I could see a small chance texas would join the sec or big 10 but either are probably very unlikely. For the sec, big 10 probably would need to add KU and missouri which could open up texas, ou and Ok state joining the sec. For texas to join the big 10, it could be KU and texas with ou and ok state to the sec. In either case, maybe Texas tech + houston might go to the pac 10 if they want to expand. IF the playoffs aren't expanded, i do think the big 12 is toast down the road.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2013 08:30 AM by bluesox.)
04-26-2013 08:26 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Best BIG expansion fit, as of today
(04-26-2013 08:26 AM)bluesox Wrote:  It could happen in a "Acc dream" or texas gets a ND type deal for indy football. Yet, I doubt it happens since i think texas would want to stick with some of its friends. My guess is if texas moves they go to the pac 10. It might be more likely its a pac 20 than a pac 16. I could see all the old pac 10 school's like a pac 20 and to create it those 10 school's have the votes to send utah and colorado east. For a pac 16 to happen, getting 9 out of the current 12 pac 12 school's to vote for it might be hard.

I could see a small chance texas would join the sec or big 10 but either are probably very unlikely. For the sec, big 10 probably would need to add KU and missouri which could open up texas, ou and Ok state joining the sec. For texas to join the big 10, it could be KU and texas with ou and ok state to the sec. In either case, maybe Texas tech + houston might go to the pac 10 if they want to expand. IF the playoffs aren't expanded, i do think the big 12 is toast down the road.

I think Texas pulling a Notre Dame type arrangement makes sense for them, and the ACC is the only other conference that will allow it. The SEC is not adding a state school. OU and Ok State were up for the grabbing a while back, but the SEC did not want State. Grabbing UVA and Va. Tech or UNC/NC. State makes as much or more sense for the SEC as the OK schools, but it does not seem that was seriously considered, either. You are right that the PAC is the best spot of the OK and KS schools want to stay together.
04-26-2013 10:53 AM
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