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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
Two good posts.
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04-10-2013 01:34 PM |
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Tomball Owl
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
(04-10-2013 01:08 PM)mrbig Wrote: I don't know anything about the context under which the alleged comments were made, but from the time I first heard the rumors in the fall, I was highly doubtful that Greenspan (if he made them) was truly trying to insult or discriminate against anyone. I interpreted more along the lines of a good old boy attorney calling his legal assistant "Honey" or "Baby". Which of course doesn't excuse the behavior and doesn't mean there shouldn't be serious reprecussions, it just means that the offender isn't a bigot, but is instead someone who just doesn't "get it" and doesn't understand that just because they think its funny or cute doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way.
In regards to how I wish Rice had handled this:
(1) If Greenspan did not say any of this, then I think he (not Rice or Leebron) should have issued a statement in the fall when the first mention of racially insensitive comments broke after the waivers were granted denying with specificity each allegation in the waiver application. Or even if they didn't go through the allegations bullet point, release a statement that the waivers made a number of specific allegations of racial/ethnic insensitivy and that each allegation in the waiver request is specifically denied. At that point, it seemed highly likely that more details would eventually emerge from somewhere, and if Rice and Greenspan are saying all the specific allegations are false, might as well get out in front of the story, instead of playing damage control. (and especially the way they played damage control with general denials). Especially with such a sensitive topic.
(2) If Greenspan said and did some or all of the specific allegations in the waiver, I think he should have been heavily reprimanded and probably fired. That kind of stuff can't be said by a person in a leadership role in an organization in this day and age. It just can't happen. It is playing with fire and eventually they will say something to someone and the whole organization will get burned as a result. If one comment had been made and word had gotten back to the administration after a single incident, I think a "you do it again and you are gone" warning would have been preferable to firing. But if anything close to the volume of allegations in the waiver is true, then the volume of specific incidents combined with the prominent transfers has passed the point where Greenspan should be retained, despite what other good things he might or might not have done.
This is just my gut reaction, legal ramifications be damned. If the allegations are false, then I wish Rice would play the criminal defense attorney and tell all the prospective jurors watching the nightly news that his client is innocent. If the allegations are mostly true, then I don't see any reason to continue to employ the offending individual. If I made those kind of comments, I'd expect to be fired from my job. If my wife or best friend said those kind of things at their jobs, I'd say it was probably a fireable offense.
Excellent summary!
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04-10-2013 01:41 PM |
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Rick Gerlach
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
(04-10-2013 12:34 PM)Caelligh Wrote: Whatever the truth is, the situation is a mess. Whatever happened, it was significant enough to gut the men's basketball team. I find it hard to believe that any university or athletic department policy would be discriminatory, but I find it easy to believe that a given individual could exercise poor judgment. I don't think the latter is reflective of the university; rather, the university's response is the real statement of the university's values and principles.
Leaving this issue aside, to be fair, the basketball team had been quasi-gutted before Kazemi and Oraby left.
And I suspect that had the other transfers not occurred and had Marcos still been employed at Rice, Kazemi and Oraby might never have left either.
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04-10-2013 01:56 PM |
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Houston Owl
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
And we may have more transfers to come...
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04-10-2013 02:38 PM |
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Antarius
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
(04-10-2013 02:38 PM)Houston Owl Wrote: And we may have more transfers to come...
Say what?
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04-10-2013 02:41 PM |
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Hambone10
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
(04-10-2013 01:56 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote: (04-10-2013 12:34 PM)Caelligh Wrote: Whatever the truth is, the situation is a mess. Whatever happened, it was significant enough to gut the men's basketball team. I find it hard to believe that any university or athletic department policy would be discriminatory, but I find it easy to believe that a given individual could exercise poor judgment. I don't think the latter is reflective of the university; rather, the university's response is the real statement of the university's values and principles.
Leaving this issue aside, to be fair, the basketball team had been quasi-gutted before Kazemi and Oraby left.
And I suspect that had the other transfers not occurred and had Marcos still been employed at Rice, Kazemi and Oraby might never have left either.
Which leads us to the question of hiring, and then not retaining Marcos. We took a risk that seemed to pay off until it didn't... and it crashed. THAT, to me is what we should be looking at.
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04-10-2013 03:47 PM |
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I45owl
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
(04-10-2013 03:19 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: (04-10-2013 02:38 PM)Houston Owl Wrote: And we may have more transfers to come...
to come or to go?
That was my question as well.
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04-10-2013 03:57 PM |
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Antarius
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
(04-10-2013 03:47 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: (04-10-2013 01:56 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote: (04-10-2013 12:34 PM)Caelligh Wrote: Whatever the truth is, the situation is a mess. Whatever happened, it was significant enough to gut the men's basketball team. I find it hard to believe that any university or athletic department policy would be discriminatory, but I find it easy to believe that a given individual could exercise poor judgment. I don't think the latter is reflective of the university; rather, the university's response is the real statement of the university's values and principles.
Leaving this issue aside, to be fair, the basketball team had been quasi-gutted before Kazemi and Oraby left.
And I suspect that had the other transfers not occurred and had Marcos still been employed at Rice, Kazemi and Oraby might never have left either.
Which leads us to the question of hiring, and then not retaining Marcos. We took a risk that seemed to pay off until it didn't... and it crashed. THAT, to me is what we should be looking at.
Great point. We certainly cannot have it both ways - Morcos was either a good hire or a bad one, not a good one till it hit the fan...
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04-10-2013 05:16 PM |
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Houston Owl
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
It's just a rumor at this point so I hope nothing comes of it.
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04-10-2013 05:17 PM |
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Antarius
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
(04-10-2013 05:17 PM)Houston Owl Wrote: It's just a rumor at this point so I hope nothing comes of it.
Good or bad rumor?
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04-10-2013 05:19 PM |
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I45owl
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
(04-10-2013 05:19 PM)Antarius Wrote: (04-10-2013 05:17 PM)Houston Owl Wrote: It's just a rumor at this point so I hope nothing comes of it.
Good or bad rumor?
I assume if he'd heard a rumor that someone was giving $200 million to Rice Athletics that he wouldn't respond by saying "I hope nothing comes of it".
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04-10-2013 05:37 PM |
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Antarius
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
(04-10-2013 05:37 PM)I45owl Wrote: (04-10-2013 05:19 PM)Antarius Wrote: (04-10-2013 05:17 PM)Houston Owl Wrote: It's just a rumor at this point so I hope nothing comes of it.
Good or bad rumor?
I assume if he'd heard a rumor that someone was giving $200 million to Rice Athletics that he wouldn't respond by saying "I hope nothing comes of it".
Doh! I don't know how I managed to misread the comment as 'It's just a rumor at this point and I don't know if anything will come of it.'
Having read the comment properly this time : How bad?
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04-10-2013 05:53 PM |
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Owl 69/70/75
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
Let's not go speculating on things that are not even well-established rumors at this point.
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04-10-2013 05:55 PM |
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I45owl
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
(04-10-2013 05:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: Let's not go speculating on things that are not even well-established rumors at this point.
Indeed. Just to make clear, I have no specific knowledge of exactly how many dollars was purportedly pledged...
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04-10-2013 06:38 PM |
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Owl 69/70/75
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
Folks, we have a first-class mess on our hands here. There is no way out that isn't messy. I know what I would do if I were AD. Then again, if I were AD we'd have never gotten here. We played with fire and now we're getting burned. The best case is that the whole house does not burn down.
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04-10-2013 06:42 PM |
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Antarius
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
(04-10-2013 06:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: Folks, we have a first-class mess on our hands here. There is no way out that isn't messy. I know what I would do if I were AD. Then again, if I were AD we'd have never gotten here. We played with fire and now we're getting burned. The best case is that the whole house does not burn down.
We let the fire burn until the house collapsed. Playing with fire generally seems to imply some level of high-risk-reward situation.
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04-10-2013 06:49 PM |
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WIowl
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
(04-10-2013 03:47 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: (04-10-2013 01:56 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote: (04-10-2013 12:34 PM)Caelligh Wrote: Whatever the truth is, the situation is a mess. Whatever happened, it was significant enough to gut the men's basketball team. I find it hard to believe that any university or athletic department policy would be discriminatory, but I find it easy to believe that a given individual could exercise poor judgment. I don't think the latter is reflective of the university; rather, the university's response is the real statement of the university's values and principles.
Leaving this issue aside, to be fair, the basketball team had been quasi-gutted before Kazemi and Oraby left.
And I suspect that had the other transfers not occurred and had Marcos still been employed at Rice, Kazemi and Oraby might never have left either.
Which leads us to the question of hiring, and then not retaining Marcos. We took a risk that seemed to pay off until it didn't... and it crashed. THAT, to me is what we should be looking at.
I"ve said this repeatedly, yet there appears to be NO pressure on Braun. When will Rice realize that they have to eat his extension and fire him?
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04-10-2013 07:17 PM |
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RiceLad15
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
Did something happen today that all, or most, of us are unaware of?
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04-10-2013 07:38 PM |
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CoatzaOwl
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RE: Leebron Letter to Rice Community
Yes!
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04-10-2013 08:47 PM |
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