http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/02/politics/k...?hpt=hp_t2

This is exactly why it was the correct decision to reroute the keystone pipeline away from the Ogallala Aquifer

(04-02-2013 08:14 PM)BobL Wrote:  http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/02/politics/k...?hpt=hp_t2

This is exactly why it was the correct decision to reroute the keystone pipeline away from the Ogallala Aquifer

I understand your point, but I think it is more complicated than that.

How many pipelines already cross that aquifer?

How many rail cars carrying oil pass over that aquifer on regular basis?

I don't know the answer to either. I don't think that area is "virgin" though in any fashion.

Pipelines are much more efficient and reliable (safe?) than shipping via other means. So, even though there are problems, I think you gotta go with what is safest overall.

Its simply terrible when one of these spills happen though. Agree on that.

(04-02-2013 08:59 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 08:14 PM)BobL Wrote:  http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/02/politics/k...?hpt=hp_t2

This is exactly why it was the correct decision to reroute the keystone pipeline away from the Ogallala Aquifer

I understand your point, but I think it is more complicated than that.

How many pipelines already cross that aquifer?

How many rail cars carrying oil pass over that aquifer on regular basis?

I don't know the answer to either. I don't think that area is "virgin" though in any fashion.

Pipelines are much more efficient and reliable (safe?) than shipping via other means. So, even though there are problems, I think you gotta go with what is safest overall.

Its simply terrible when one of these spills happen though. Agree on that.

I have a better idea. Why not have them build the pipeline through Canada to their coast and build a refinery there so the Canadian tax payers will have to pay for the clean up WHEN there is a spill instead of the American tax payers? Especially when the refined oil is going to the world market either way. Oops. THat's right, the Canadians said they didn't want that so the next best thing is to send that crap through the US.

(04-02-2013 11:59 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I have a better idea. Why not have them build the pipeline through Canada to their coast and build a refinery there so the Canadian tax payers will have to pay for the clean up WHEN there is a spill instead of the American tax payers? Especially when the refined oil is going to the world market either way. Oops. THat's right, the Canadians said they didn't want that so the next best thing is to send that crap through the US.

There are refineries in Texas able and willing to refine this oil. Why don't you want to put Americans to work and help the economy?

(04-03-2013 08:31 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 11:59 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I have a better idea. Why not have them build the pipeline through Canada to their coast and build a refinery there so the Canadian tax payers will have to pay for the clean up WHEN there is a spill instead of the American tax payers? Especially when the refined oil is going to the world market either way. Oops. THat's right, the Canadians said they didn't want that so the next best thing is to send that crap through the US.

There are refineries in Texas able and willing to refine this oil. Why don't you want to put Americans to work and help the economy?

Why do you want to pay for the cleanup of the spills that WILL occur just so some Canadian company can make billions of dollars in profits? The clean up costs will out exceed the benefits of the few jobs that are created in this country.

(04-03-2013 08:31 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 11:59 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I have a better idea. Why not have them build the pipeline through Canada to their coast and build a refinery there so the Canadian tax payers will have to pay for the clean up WHEN there is a spill instead of the American tax payers? Especially when the refined oil is going to the world market either way. Oops. THat's right, the Canadians said they didn't want that so the next best thing is to send that crap through the US.

There are refineries in Texas able and willing to refine this oil. Why don't you want to put Americans to work and help the economy?

Americans with jobs might not view themselves as being dependant on the Government, and they might actually want the Government to get smaller and get out of their way. We can't have that.

Better to have Americans dependant on the Government, voting Democrat, and fighting over benefits like little piglets fighting for an open teet.

Also, if you allow Texans to refine the oil, someone might turn a profit and get rich. We can't have that. Our unifying President wants us to hate millionares and billionares.

(04-03-2013 09:14 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(04-03-2013 08:31 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 11:59 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I have a better idea. Why not have them build the pipeline through Canada to their coast and build a refinery there so the Canadian tax payers will have to pay for the clean up WHEN there is a spill instead of the American tax payers? Especially when the refined oil is going to the world market either way. Oops. THat's right, the Canadians said they didn't want that so the next best thing is to send that crap through the US.

There are refineries in Texas able and willing to refine this oil. Why don't you want to put Americans to work and help the economy?

Why do you want to pay for the cleanup of the spills that WILL occur just so some Canadian company can make billions of dollars in profits? The clean up costs will out exceed the benefits of the few jobs that are created in this country.

I'm sure you can provide numbers to back that up?

And, please provide numbers on how increasing the global supply of oil is bad.

(04-03-2013 08:31 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 11:59 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I have a better idea. Why not have them build the pipeline through Canada to their coast and build a refinery there so the Canadian tax payers will have to pay for the clean up WHEN there is a spill instead of the American tax payers? Especially when the refined oil is going to the world market either way. Oops. THat's right, the Canadians said they didn't want that so the next best thing is to send that crap through the US.

There are refineries in Texas able and willing to refine this oil. Why don't you want to put Americans to work and help the economy?

The limited supply of fresh water is at least as important if not more important than oil. An oil spill out of that pipeline would f up that aquifer and affect farmers & their crops, ranchers & their cattle and hogs along with existing communities that depend on drinking water from that aquifer.

The Central Plains are not the Great Lakes. That aquifer gets trashed and they don't have Lake Michigan water as a backup plan.

The real question is who will benefit more from this pipeline

1) The Canadian oil companies from the royalities
2) Canadian Gov't they get the taxes and won't have to spend any Canadian Taxpayer $ to fix the inevitable oil spills and the environmental damage.
3) American Oil companies who refine the oil most of whom are paying little to no taxes now with all the specialized tax breaks they receive in the Fed Tax Code

Who will be a long way down the list of benefiting from this pipeline

1) American citizens especially those who live in the vicinity of the pipeline and who will be affected when it ruptures and an oil spill happens

2) Communities whose water source gets polluted when the oil spill happens.

If the Oil companies want this pipeline so bad they need to put billions in a trust fund in advance to pay for the inevitable cleanup costs and environmental damage this pipeline will cause

(04-03-2013 10:59 AM)Poliicious Wrote:  The limited supply of fresh water is at least as important if not more important than oil. An oil spill out of that pipeline would f up that aquifer and affect farmers & their crops, ranchers & their cattle and hogs along with existing communities that depend on drinking water from that aquifer.

The Central Plains are not the Great Lakes. That aquifer gets trashed and they don't have Lake Michigan water as a backup plan.

That area is already covered in a network of pipelines. So, you are for all those pipelines being removed? If not, how does a new pipeline, which will be in better shape than those and more technologically advanced be worse than the existing pipelines?

And, this very oil is already moved through that area via Warren Buffet's railroad system.

So, your choice is no new pipeline, and the oil moves on rails, which is less safe, or new pipeline and the oil moves more safely?

Either way, the existing pipelines remain in service above that very same pipeline.

(04-03-2013 10:59 AM)Poliicious Wrote:  The real question is who will benefit more from this pipeline

1) The Canadian oil companies from the royalities
2) Canadian Gov't they get the taxes and won't have to spend any Canadian Taxpayer $ to fix the inevitable oil spills and the environmental damage.
3) American Oil companies who refine the oil most of whom are paying little to no taxes now with all the specialized tax breaks they receive in the Fed Tax Code

Who will be a long way down the list of benefiting from this pipeline

1) American citizens especially those who live in the vicinity of the pipeline and who will be affected when it ruptures and an oil spill happens

2) Communities whose water source gets polluted when the oil spill happens.

Oil companies pay a tremendous amount of taxes. Enough with the tax breaks red herring-out right falsehood.

Within the past two years, there were two major pipelines built between DeKalb and the burbs. Were those bad ideas as well? Nicor has a large gas pipeline that passes under the Fox south of the Chain of Lakes. That was built in 95. is that bad? There is a gasoline pipeline immediately north of St. Charles that runs east-west. You are against all those too?

Or is it because you don't know about them, and they work, they don't exist?

(04-03-2013 11:12 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-03-2013 10:59 AM)Poliicious Wrote:  The limited supply of fresh water is at least as important if not more important than oil. An oil spill out of that pipeline would f up that aquifer and affect farmers & their crops, ranchers & their cattle and hogs along with existing communities that depend on drinking water from that aquifer.

The Central Plains are not the Great Lakes. That aquifer gets trashed and they don't have Lake Michigan water as a backup plan.

That area is already covered in a network of pipelines. So, you are for all those pipelines being removed? If not, how does a new pipeline, which will be in better shape than those and more technologically advanced be worse than the existing pipelines?

And, this very oil is already moved through that area via Warren Buffet's railroad system.

So, your choice is no new pipeline, and the oil moves on rails, which is less safe, or new pipeline and the oil moves more safely?

Either way, the existing pipelines remain in service above that very same pipeline.

That may or may not be...not gonna argue that...but keep in mind whats involved in pumping the oil sands crude..this crude is more corrosive and abrasive and the pipeline will have to operate at substantially higher pressures then light crude pipelines as well as higher temperatures.

I have never opposed the pipeline, I only opposed the original route.

(04-03-2013 12:07 PM)BobL Wrote:  That may or may not be...not gonna argue that...but keep in mind whats involved in pumping the oil sands crude..this crude is more corrosive and abrasive and the pipeline will have to operate at substantially higher pressures then light crude pipelines as well as higher temperatures.

I have never opposed the pipeline, I only opposed the original route.

Not meaning to launch on you.

This one is a tough one.

(04-03-2013 11:15 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-03-2013 10:59 AM)Poliicious Wrote:  The real question is who will benefit more from this pipeline

1) The Canadian oil companies from the royalities
2) Canadian Gov't they get the taxes and won't have to spend any Canadian Taxpayer $ to fix the inevitable oil spills and the environmental damage.
3) American Oil companies who refine the oil most of whom are paying little to no taxes now with all the specialized tax breaks they receive in the Fed Tax Code

Who will be a long way down the list of benefiting from this pipeline

1) American citizens especially those who live in the vicinity of the pipeline and who will be affected when it ruptures and an oil spill happens

2) Communities whose water source gets polluted when the oil spill happens.

Oil companies pay a tremendous amount of taxes. Enough with the tax breaks red herring-out right falsehood.

Last year BP paid $0 Federal Income Tax due to the oil depletion allowances all myriad of other tax breaks they get.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2011/03/...oidin.html

5 of the 10 most profitable corporations that paid either no federal income tax or got a tax refund are oil companies

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-4342535.html

2/3 of all US corporations paid $0 Federal income tax from 1988 to 2005

http://www.oil-price.net/en/articles/How...n-2009.php

Exxon paid $0 Federal Tax in 2009

http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/1334...taxes.html

10 Giant corporations that pay no federal income tax, 5 are oil companies

http://www.payupnow.org/

Another list of corporations that avoid paying taxes through the myriad of loopholes they enjoy

Try presenting facts to back up your corporate spin.
Man if there's a bigger corporate ball licker and a$$ ki$$er on the internet than you I've yet to read them.

(04-18-2013 10:18 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  

(04-03-2013 11:15 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-03-2013 10:59 AM)Poliicious Wrote:  The real question is who will benefit more from this pipeline

1) The Canadian oil companies from the royalities
2) Canadian Gov't they get the taxes and won't have to spend any Canadian Taxpayer $ to fix the inevitable oil spills and the environmental damage.
3) American Oil companies who refine the oil most of whom are paying little to no taxes now with all the specialized tax breaks they receive in the Fed Tax Code

Who will be a long way down the list of benefiting from this pipeline

1) American citizens especially those who live in the vicinity of the pipeline and who will be affected when it ruptures and an oil spill happens

2) Communities whose water source gets polluted when the oil spill happens.

Oil companies pay a tremendous amount of taxes. Enough with the tax breaks red herring-out right falsehood.

Last year BP paid $0 Federal Income Tax due to the oil depletion allowances all myriad of other tax breaks they get.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2011/03/...oidin.html

5 of the 10 most profitable corporations that paid either no federal income tax or got a tax refund are oil companies

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-4342535.html

2/3 of all US corporations paid $0 Federal income tax from 1988 to 2005

http://www.oil-price.net/en/articles/How...n-2009.php

Exxon paid $0 Federal Tax in 2009

http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/1334...taxes.html

10 Giant corporations that pay no federal income tax, 5 are oil companies

http://www.payupnow.org/

Another list of corporations that avoid paying taxes through the myriad of loopholes they enjoy

Try presenting facts to back up your corporate spin.
Man if there's a bigger corporate ball licker and a$$ ki$$er on the internet than you I've yet to read them.

Are you trying to be dense or what? Oil companies pay all kinds of taxes.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/...ses-spill/

Let's see. In one year, BP wrote off the cost of the spill clean up against their profits. That is an expense against their profits. It may piss you off that their expenses came from the spill, but as even the great Robert Gibbs noted, that is typical and has been that way for a long time.

And, your broad brush statements, and hyperbolic headlines are so intellectually inconsistent, it is stunning. These are large companies, that make a significant amount of their income outside of this country. You blow right by that and act as if all of BP's, Exxon's, etc. profits are made here and they pay zero taxes of any sort.

Oil companies, just like other companies, get to write off expenses. That isn't unique to the oil business.

Get with it.

And, to further emphasize another point, you have no clue where pipelines already run or how they work. Quit ranting and educate yourself, please.

(04-03-2013 09:16 AM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  

(04-03-2013 08:31 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 11:59 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I have a better idea. Why not have them build the pipeline through Canada to their coast and build a refinery there so the Canadian tax payers will have to pay for the clean up WHEN there is a spill instead of the American tax payers? Especially when the refined oil is going to the world market either way. Oops. THat's right, the Canadians said they didn't want that so the next best thing is to send that crap through the US.

There are refineries in Texas able and willing to refine this oil. Why don't you want to put Americans to work and help the economy?

Americans with jobs might not view themselves as being dependant on the Government, and they might actually want the Government to get smaller and get out of their way. We can't have that.

Better to have Americans dependant on the Government, voting Democrat, and fighting over benefits like little piglets fighting for an open teet.

Also, if you allow Texans to refine the oil, someone might turn a profit and get rich. We can't have that. Our unifying President wants us to hate millionares and billionares.

Any more talking points you want to stuff in there? Jeeze, change your channel. Youre as bad as klake