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Poll: Will C-USA 2.0 be a 2 bid conference in Men's basketball?
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C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
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blazers9911 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
(04-02-2013 01:57 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  How TF would you know? About 3 post were completely deleted, not moved. I've been on here almost a decade and have never had a post deleted.

Unfortunately I didn't get to read these before they were deleted, but I'll try.

UAB was Gene Bartow's pet. They got a legendary coach who was out to prove something and it just happened to be UAB that benefited.(I'm sure he stayed there so long working on a pet project that was pretty much successful from the get-go)

There was no shot clock and 3 point line.(3 point line-1986, shot clock-1985, UAB began playing in 1978)

Mike Anderson was a fluke hire and UAB got lucky.(you can say that about just about any program with any success, can't you?)

UAB doesn't spend enough to win.(why did Kentucky miss the tournament this year? I know they spend money)

Mike Davis was overachieving.(uh huh. that's why most fans wanted him gone from day 1)

Did I miss anything?
04-02-2013 03:07 PM
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topper1296 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
I just posted this in another thread, but I'll throw it in this one as well. I pulled this information over the weekend. I dont' know about any of the other programs, but WKU and FIU are just now getting over bad coaching hires.

[Image: RPIaverage-2.png]
04-02-2013 03:07 PM
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StillJonesing Offline
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Post: #43
RE: C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
So the last 3 years, 3 schools with an average RPI in the top 100, and 2 of which are ranked 96th and 98th.

Way to throw a wet blanket on this party.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2013 03:17 PM by StillJonesing.)
04-02-2013 03:12 PM
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oldtiger Away
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Post: #44
RE: C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
(04-02-2013 11:06 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  You don't add 6 Sun Belt teams from around the 15th - 20th best conference yearly, lose Memphis and all the schools with the highest budgets and get better. Look at the budgets thread on the CUSA board. Their were only 3 programs in new CUSA that were even in the top 100 in spending on their basketball, and they were all in ranked in the 90's.

Then read this article on mid majority that tracks money spent and how it affects winning in hoops and hoop conferences.

Quote:http://www.midmajority.com/redline

""And finally, you realize that this is really about money.

In 2007, The Mid-Majority Institute of Basketball Research drew a line across the center of Division I. It was a Red Line. Above it, conferences with an average school athletic budget of $20 million or more (as measured by the U.S. Department of Postsecondary Education). It's not really an arbitrary line, because we've found that over the past three years, the eight richest leagues beat teams in the smaller conferences over 83 percent of the time in 2009-10. Now that is a competitive imbalance.
""

[Image: whatsa12_zps6675be56.png]

There is no way they are a 3 bid league or probably even a two bid league most years with these resources, and many of the schools barely at that 20/2 million mark. Also schools like UNCC in the A10, and schools like UTEP, UAB, USM in old CUSA 2.0 used consistently ranked national programs like Memphis, Xavier, Temple etc to attract recruits to play against them are now gone and will affect recruiting.

I agree that budgets are normally a good barometer for programs' potential, but averages across conferences skew the perception of individual programs.

I think that it's fair to say that ODU/UAB/Charlotte should, at some point, return to their normal place on the basketball landscape. Add them to the legitimate program at UTEP and the foundation that USM is building for the future and it's hard to define the future of CUSA as "a one bid conference." It took the MVC a few seasons for "experts" to believe that it had fully returned to a better level and it probably will for CUSA.

In short, there's a lot of potential for CUSA to become a multi bid conference when programs reach their correct or expected level of performance, but it could take a season or two for the bids to be realized because of the "one bid" legacy of the conference, which hurt USM this season.

...and none of that even includes Marshall, who some day might actually figure out how to use all that talent that the have on their roster
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2013 03:18 PM by oldtiger.)
04-02-2013 03:16 PM
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Blazer88 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
(04-02-2013 03:07 PM)topper1296 Wrote:  I just posted this in another thread, but I'll throw it in this one as well. I pulled this information over the weekend. I dont' know about any of the other programs, but WKU and FIU are just now getting over bad coaching hires.

[Image: RPIaverage-2.png]

Same with UAB. I think WKU,UAB,UNCC,ODU,UTEP will be competing soon enough for at large bids. Then you have the new guys like USM,La Tech, and Marshall that can as well.
04-02-2013 03:17 PM
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WinOrLoseEAGLE Offline
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Post: #46
RE: C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
(04-02-2013 01:57 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  How TF would you know? About 3 post were completely deleted, not moved. I've been on here almost a decade and have never had a post deleted.

hmmmm - makes me wonder if you're posts that got deleted were well thought out and unbiased or well thought out jonesing smack?

I read your junk - seems your evaluations weren't nearly close to being supported by your facts.
04-02-2013 03:23 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #47
RE: C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
(04-02-2013 11:49 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 11:21 AM)Blazer88 Wrote:  Really? With even with Memphis leaving UAB just had its best recruiting class since Mike Anderson was here. And UTEP has a top 30 class. Not playing teams like ECU,SMU,and Houston probably help.

SMU and Houston are already recruiting at a higher level than any of this new CUSA outside of maybe UTEP, and I'm pretty sure UTEP had their recruits signed before ECU left. Neat story though.

UTEP's a legit program, about the only one that actually looks like a high major left in CUSA. They average twice as many fans as UAB and most of new CUSA, so it's not a shock they are getting good recruits. Although their coach might get the NCAA investigators sniffing around like he has in other places before all is said an done. I also looked up UAB's class and that's not accurate or overly impressive. Davis had signed higher ranked classes.

The money facts are the facts, and I didn't make them up.

I always love a recruiting argument.....it always fails since play on the field/court is what matters. Oh, crap, my bad, ECU has done what? SMU has done what? Phi Slamma Jamma was when? For christ's sakes, it took ND forever to get back to national prominence with an annual top 10 recruiting class.

There is no doubt that spending dollars makes a difference and is a positive. However, recruiting is subjective. Recruits evolve and the talent they play against in HS is relative. Coaching and the environment is easily more applicable to relative success.

Your facts at times are overtly subjective. This is definitely one of those times.
04-02-2013 03:28 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #48
RE: C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
(04-02-2013 03:07 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 01:57 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  How TF would you know? About 3 post were completely deleted, not moved. I've been on here almost a decade and have never had a post deleted.

Unfortunately I didn't get to read these before they were deleted, but I'll try.

UAB was Gene Bartow's pet. They got a legendary coach who was out to prove something and it just happened to be UAB that benefited.(I'm sure he stayed there so long working on a pet project that was pretty much successful from the get-go)

There was no shot clock and 3 point line.(3 point line-1986, shot clock-1985, UAB began playing in 1978)

Mike Anderson was a fluke hire and UAB got lucky.(you can say that about just about any program with any success, can't you?)

UAB doesn't spend enough to win.(why did Kentucky miss the tournament this year? I know they spend money)

Mike Davis was overachieving.(uh huh. that's why most fans wanted him gone from day 1)

Did I miss anything?

Yeah, you guys don't put enough football fans in the stadium.....like that statement, he's a joke without a punchline
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2013 03:34 PM by stinkfist.)
04-02-2013 03:34 PM
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BamaScorpio69 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
(04-02-2013 11:49 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 11:21 AM)Blazer88 Wrote:  Really? With even with Memphis leaving UAB just had its best recruiting class since Mike Anderson was here. And UTEP has a top 30 class. Not playing teams like ECU,SMU,and Houston probably help.

SMU and Houston are already recruiting at a higher level than any of this new CUSA outside of maybe UTEP, and I'm pretty sure UTEP had their recruits signed before ECU left. Neat story though.

UTEP's a legit program, about the only one that actually looks like a high major left in CUSA. They average twice as many fans as UAB and most of new CUSA, so it's not a shock they are getting good recruits. Although their coach might get the NCAA investigators sniffing around like he has in other places before all is said an done. I also looked up UAB's class and that's not accurate or overly impressive. Davis had signed higher ranked classes.

The money facts are the facts, and I didn't make them up.

And yet the MVC has been a multi-bid league for several years now.....go figure!!!
04-02-2013 03:35 PM
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BamaScorpio69 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
(04-02-2013 01:57 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  How TF would you know? About 3 post were completely deleted, not moved. I've been on here almost a decade and have never had a post deleted.

There is a first time for everything right SJ? ECU played in their first Bball postseaon tourney ever.....see first time for everything...lol.
04-02-2013 03:38 PM
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Smaug Offline
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Post: #51
RE: C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
Forgive Jonesy.

Mike Davis filed a restraining order and he has to lash out somewhere.
04-02-2013 03:44 PM
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randaddyminer Offline
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Post: #52
RE: C-USA 2.0, a 2 bid conference?
past 10 years, by winning percentage vs D1

1. Memphis.........286-72.........(.799).........(7 NCAA, 2 NIT)
2. ODU..............216-118........(.647).........(4 NCAA, NIT)
3. UAB...............205-118.......(.635).........(4 NCAA, 3 NIT)
4. UTEP.............205-119........(.633).........(3 NCAA, 2 NIT)

5. WKU.............201-121.........(.624)........(4 NCAA, 2 NIT)
6. UCF..............182-119.........(.605)........(2 NCAA, 1 NIT)
7. MTSU...........184-125.........(.595).........(1 NCAA, 1 NIT)
8. UNT..............177-130........(.577).........(2 NCAA)
9. Houston........169-140........(.547).........(1 NCAA)
10. UNCC...........169-141........(.545).........(2 NCAA, 3 NIT)
11. Tulsa...........169-148........(.533).........(2 NIT)
12. USM............152-138........(.524)..........(1 NCAA, 1 NIT)
13. La Tech.......154-156.........(.497).........(1 NIT)
14. UTSA..........127-141.........(.474).........(2 NCAA)
15. Marshall.......143.160.........(.472).........(1 NIT)
16. Tulane.........125-166........(.430)
17. FAU............122-172.........(.415)
18. SMU............118-173........(.405)
19. Rice............117-186........(.386)
20. ECU............99-177..........(.359)
21. FIU.............95-193..........(.330)


Granted, we're losing Memphis, but overall the conference is better from top to bottom. There will be sometimes that we're a 1 bid conference, but mostly we'll be a 2 bid conference, unless someone does a Memphis and sweeps the conference for a couple years
04-02-2013 05:11 PM
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