I posted the following on the conference page of the MAC. It sums up why I feel we need to leave this conference even if it's to the water downed CUSA.

The Morass of the Mac-A Study of Inaction

Sometimes you stay in a job, a relationship, or any other of the situations of life because nothing pushes you to action. It's OK. And it might get better. And it's not as bad as it could be.

So goes life in the MAC. We are an OK conference.
Scrappy in football.
A one bidder in basketball.
Close for travel.
Low maintenance and drama-No one leaves or joins.
We leave other conferences alone and they leave us alone.
We compete for the same kids.
Almost everyone gets a turn at being good.
Nobody gets too good.
Or spends too much.
It's safe.
Presidents with tight budgets like the occasional exposure that sports can bring.
And so it goes. What was true in the 80's was true in the 00's and will be true ten years from now.
We trade an occasional football only member to some school that has higher aspiration and let the school stay untill they want to move on.
And our fan base knows this. So we have mediocre attendance because as Popeye said, "I yam what I yam."

So as schools move to better themselves and conference relaignment occurs all around us, we sit and say "it's not so bad." and "Our stability is our strength".

Such is life in the MAC.

Many schools and conferences have recognized that sports is marketing tool to bring recognition and enrollment to the schools.
The MAC is just happy to be in the game.

It's the Morass of the MAC. A study of Inaction.

You sound like a guy that wants to leave his wife of twenty years and you are trying to justify yourself. Toledo, the city as a whole, has always wanted to be something else and never celebrates what it is. This post is just like that. The fans of the UT cannot even bring themselves to coming to games in UT gear, evidece of all the OSU and UM gear in the stands. Support the University with your dollars and your butts in seats and good things will come. The fence is not always greener

(04-02-2013 07:21 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  You sound like a guy that wants to leave his wife of twenty years and you are trying to justify yourself. Toledo, the city as a whole, has always wanted to be something else and never celebrates what it is. This post is just like that. The fans of the UT cannot even bring themselves to coming to games in UT gear, evidece of all the OSU and UM gear in the stands. Support the University with your dollars and your butts in seats and good things will come. The fence is not always greener

Not sure I would compare a conference to a wife!

I am a season ticket holder and proud rocket fan. I just believe we need to move conferences!

(04-02-2013 07:21 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  You sound like a guy that wants to leave his wife of twenty years and you are trying to justify yourself. Toledo, the city as a whole, has always wanted to be something else and never celebrates what it is. This post is just like that. The fans of the UT cannot even bring themselves to coming to games in UT gear, evidece of all the OSU and UM gear in the stands. Support the University with your dollars and your butts in seats and good things will come. The fence is not always greener

Very rarely see osu or mi gear in the stand anymore. Used to be almost no one wore UT stuff to the games-I think Amstutz, with the osu buy-back and "we are your team" stuff and Tricia Cullop with the pride her program brought to the U have changed that culture quite a bit. I have no particular problem with the MAC. I'd like to see more fan interest ala Boise but in the heart of the Big Ten/Notre Dame monopoplex that is unlikely to happen, particularly for an EMU or NIU that competes with UI and Chicago pro teams.

If the MAC is such a laid back conference, I don't see why UT has not been able to even win a MAC Championship** in a major sport the past decade (over 3 decades for MBB) much less dominate in the major sports. Was it Al Bohl (or maybe Pete Liske?) who said that with Toledo's inherent advantages he expected UT to challenge for MAC Championships in the "major" sports every year?

** For basketball I am talking about the Tournament Championship that gets you into the NCAA, not the Regular Season Championship that only gets you a high seed in the tournament and an excuse to hang another (somewhat meaningless) banner.

(04-02-2013 08:16 AM)T-Town Wrote:  If the MAC is such a laid back conference, I don't see why UT has not been able to even win a MAC Championship** in a major sport the past decade (over 3 decades for MBB) much less dominate in the major sports. Was it Al Bohl (or maybe Pete Liske?) who said that with Toledo's inherent advantages he expected UT to challenge for MAC Championships in the "major" sports every year?

** For basketball I am talking about the Tournament Championship that gets you into the NCAA, not the Regular Season Championship that only gets you a high seed in the tournament and an excuse to hang another (somewhat meaningless) banner.

We just won a major sport title this year when the women set a record score for the MAC Championships in X-country. Granted, it wasn't a MAJOR-major like track but still.....

(04-02-2013 08:20 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 08:16 AM)T-Town Wrote:  If the MAC is such a laid back conference, I don't see why UT has not been able to even win a MAC Championship** in a major sport the past decade (over 3 decades for MBB) much less dominate in the major sports. Was it Al Bohl (or maybe Pete Liske?) who said that with Toledo's inherent advantages he expected UT to challenge for MAC Championships in the "major" sports every year?

** For basketball I am talking about the Tournament Championship that gets you into the NCAA, not the Regular Season Championship that only gets you a high seed in the tournament and an excuse to hang another (somewhat meaningless) banner.

We just won a major sport title this year when the women set a record score for the MAC Championships in X-country. Granted, it wasn't a MAJOR-major like track but still.....

True enough, and last year UT won the Jacoby Trophy for the very first time ever. These are major accomplishments, to be sure but unfortunately the focus seems to usually be on the "revenue sports". I have never heard any of the "let's-kick-Eastern-out-of-the-MAC" mob cite the EMU swim team or track team as a reason.

One of my favoite stories from 10ish years ago is that the program seller/vendor in our section at the glass bowl was wearing an OSU hat while selling "our" programs. I thought this was BS. The following Monday I sent an email to Mike Karbin explaining why I thought it was BS and what section we were sitting. I recieved a great email back from Mike that the affore mentioned program seller was no longer employed in his program selling duties. I can't confirm or deny this person lost their job, or if a charity volunteer was asked to not return, but nontheless the message was heard. I have noticed a lot less non-UT clothing attendees to UT sporting events, but it still bugs me when I see a dude clothed entirely in scarlet and gray apparel sitting in the reserved section at Basketbal games (we all see you).

When we invite friends or rookie game day visitors to games I always inform them that while they don't have to wear rocket gear, the opposing team colors are such and please don't wear green if we're playing Ohio or EMU. Or heaven forbid someone wears an orange Browns sweatshirt to the BG game, not realizing.

In response to the first couple of posts, there is something to be said for a stable conference. We do have a lot less drama and it is refreshing not having to retool who we're rooting against every couple of years. I have so lost track of where everyone has landed, it used to make sense, not any more. West Virginia in th B12, WTF?

(04-02-2013 09:35 AM)emanoh Wrote:  One of my favoite stories from 10ish years ago is that the program seller/vendor in our section at the glass bowl was wearing an OSU hat while selling "our" programs. I thought this was BS. The following Monday I sent an email to Mike Karbin explaining why I thought it was BS and what section we were sitting. I recieved a great email back from Mike that the affore mentioned program seller was no longer employed in his program selling duties. I can't confirm or deny this person lost their job, or if a charity volunteer was asked to not return, but nontheless the message was heard. I have noticed a lot less non-UT clothing attendees to UT sporting events, but it still bugs me when I see a dude clothed entirely in scarlet and gray apparel sitting in the reserved section at Basketbal games (we all see you).

When we invite friends or rookie game day visitors to games I always inform them that while they don't have to wear rocket gear, the opposing team colors are such and please don't wear green if we're playing Ohio or EMU. Or heaven forbid someone wears an orange Browns sweatshirt to the BG game, not realizing.

In response to the first couple of posts, there is something to be said for a stable conference. We do have a lot less drama and it is refreshing not having to retool who we're rooting against every couple of years. I have so lost track of where everyone has landed, it used to make sense, not any more. West Virginia in th B12, WTF?

I think I agree. I have been a Toledo fan beginning in the late 1950s. I have heard fans bash the conference over and over but I suspect that were we to move to another one we would not find the competitive environment superior. Lets face it we have mid major facilities and budgets. If we had a superior athletic environment it would seem we would have a big recruiting advantage at least over league schools.

(04-02-2013 08:55 AM)T-Town Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 08:20 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 08:16 AM)T-Town Wrote:  If the MAC is such a laid back conference, I don't see why UT has not been able to even win a MAC Championship** in a major sport the past decade (over 3 decades for MBB) much less dominate in the major sports. Was it Al Bohl (or maybe Pete Liske?) who said that with Toledo's inherent advantages he expected UT to challenge for MAC Championships in the "major" sports every year?

** For basketball I am talking about the Tournament Championship that gets you into the NCAA, not the Regular Season Championship that only gets you a high seed in the tournament and an excuse to hang another (somewhat meaningless) banner.

We just won a major sport title this year when the women set a record score for the MAC Championships in X-country. Granted, it wasn't a MAJOR-major like track but still.....

True enough, and last year UT won the Jacoby Trophy for the very first time ever. These are major accomplishments, to be sure but unfortunately the focus seems to usually be on the "revenue sports". I have never heard any of the "let's-kick-Eastern-out-of-the-MAC" mob cite the EMU swim team or track team as a reason.

Just yanking your chain- I ran track hence, its THE major sport. I know what you're talking about, though....

Toledo (&the MAC?) just must be sure to not allow the positive attributes of "stability" to become a code word for "inertia". With whatever funds and resources we do have,(physical, intellectual and creative) the U of Toledo must become associated with state-of-the-art practices, equipment, and informed personel.

(04-02-2013 08:16 AM)T-Town Wrote:  If the MAC is such a laid back conference, I don't see why UT has not been able to even win a MAC Championship** in a major sport the past decade (over 3 decades for MBB) much less dominate in the major sports. Was it Al Bohl (or maybe Pete Liske?) who said that with Toledo's inherent advantages he expected UT to challenge for MAC Championships in the "major" sports every year?

** For basketball I am talking about the Tournament Championship that gets you into the NCAA, not the Regular Season Championship that only gets you a high seed in the tournament and an excuse to hang another (somewhat meaningless) banner.

I think it was Al Bohl I agreed with him then and agree that now it is in conceivable to me how badly the men's basketball program has been managed most of the last 30 years. Being in the MAC is irrelevant on that though. However it is not mismanaged right now I expect to win make the NCAA's next year with what our team looks like for next year.

(04-02-2013 06:49 AM)Rocketdamus Wrote:  I posted the following on the conference page of the MAC. It sums up why I feel we need to leave this conference even if it's to the water downed CUSA.

The Morass of the Mac-A Study of Inaction

Sometimes you stay in a job, a relationship, or any other of the situations of life because nothing pushes you to action. It's OK. And it might get better. And it's not as bad as it could be.

So goes life in the MAC. We are an OK conference.
Scrappy in football.
A one bidder in basketball.
Close for travel.
Low maintenance and drama-No one leaves or joins.
We leave other conferences alone and they leave us alone.
We compete for the same kids.
Almost everyone gets a turn at being good.
Nobody gets too good.
Or spends too much.
It's safe.
Presidents with tight budgets like the occasional exposure that sports can bring.
And so it goes. What was true in the 80's was true in the 00's and will be true ten years from now.
We trade an occasional football only member to some school that has higher aspiration and let the school stay untill they want to move on.
And our fan base knows this. So we have mediocre attendance because as Popeye said, "I yam what I yam."

So as schools move to better themselves and conference relaignment occurs all around us, we sit and say "it's not so bad." and "Our stability is our strength".

Such is life in the MAC.

Many schools and conferences have recognized that sports is marketing tool to bring recognition and enrollment to the schools.
The MAC is just happy to be in the game.

It's the Morass of the MAC. A study of Inaction.

I've thought and said for a long time that UT needs to leave the MAC. Doing so would bring in better competition and as a result better crowds.
When we bring in AQ schools, the attendance is good. Lower MAC schools don't create any interest, ie Eastern Mich, Buffalo, even Ball State. (Yawn)
Toledo ought to look to Louisville as a model. Both metro schools of about similar size. The 'Ville is the pride of the city which brings sponsorship dollars, donations, and attendance. As a result they have both a new football stadium and BBall arena.
What conference were they in before Conference USA?
Their progression from CUSA to Big East to ACC has been remarkable and the result of ambition, not satisfaction with the status quo.
How do others schools improve their status? ie. Central Florida? Temple? Why can't Toledo?
sorry for the Rant!

Posted this in the Lobby To Leave the MAC thread...Magoo is defining MACfatique to a tee...

There is one intangible in this discussion. It is not the sole reason nor the major reason for our situation but none the less a real part of the discussion IMO. It is very difficult to quantify so basing any part of a discussion point on it is risky.
I call it "MAC Fatigue". I submit that the greater Toledo area has been as supportive of the Rockets as possible given that a good percentage of our fan are tired of the MAC. Lets face it, when a great percentage of our schedules features team that have little or no institutional or fan support, it is hard to look forward to going to a game when you are tired of EMU, WMU, CMU, Akron... you get my drift. Look at the worst of any statistic involving all of the DI schools and you will see at least half of the bottom schools are MAC schools. I KNOW THE ARGUMENT THAT WE HAVE NOT BEATEN THEM CONSISTENTLY BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT OUR SUPPORT BASE AND ABILITY TO BRING BRAND RECOGNITION, ATTENDANCE, COMMUNITY SUPPORT, ETC. TO THE DISCUSSION OF CHANGING CONFERENCES THIS HAS TO BE A FACTOR IMHO

Sorry for the rant as well...hoping that MOB and Dr. J have this on a front burner all of the time. Just how do we raise the major $$$$ that we need. Need a sugar dady corp. to step into the picture...that would help. I guess we all have to by some tickets and fill the seats!!!