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Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
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cinbinsportsfan Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 08:45 AM)indycat Wrote:  While I believe Mick will (and should be) rewarded by UC for remaining loyal and rebuilding the program I also believe that he, like any employee, should be coached and mentored for improved performance. That may mean evaluating his assistant coaches and making a change in at least one of those positions to someone who could help implement fresh offensive schemes or develop the bigs. Placing hope on a less competitive conference next season as a recipe for greater success is not a formula for improving UC's performance.

This is an intriguing idea.
 
04-02-2013 08:52 AM
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Bearcat Otto Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 07:57 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 05:43 AM)Marcus Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 11:27 PM)subflea Wrote:  Enfield of FGCU to USC. I think they just made a huge mistake. I know he has some pedigree as an assistant, 5 years at Florida State, a couple of stops in the NBA, but they basically hired him because he went on a 2 game winning streak. There is no way he is on their radar before the tourney with a 21-15 conference record in the A-Sun.

This. Terrible hire by USC IMO.

They went with the flavor of the month. In the end, it'll either be a brilliant hire and energize their fanbase or the dumbest hire ever.

For Enfield he'll go from making $150,000 a year coaching to probably in the upper 6 figures to over a million. Nice raise.
(Not that he needed the money anyway as he's already rich from his time in the private sector.)

I don't understand the animosity over a coach, or any employee, making the market rate in his profession. And what difference does it make how much he is worth? By his own account Enfield stated that he needed to bring home a paycheck. If I was hiring, I would want to hire someone with success in their past.
 
04-02-2013 09:02 AM
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mptnstr@44 Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
Where did I knock him for making or having money? There is nothing derogatory in my statements regarding Enfield.
Just stated facts — it is a nice raise from what he was making as a coach and he does already have lots of money so he doesn't "need" it. I don't blame Enfield one bit for striking while the iron was hot.

Whether it is a smart hire by USC, only time will tell.
 
04-02-2013 09:25 AM
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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 08:52 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 08:45 AM)indycat Wrote:  While I believe Mick will (and should be) rewarded by UC for remaining loyal and rebuilding the program I also believe that he, like any employee, should be coached and mentored for improved performance. That may mean evaluating his assistant coaches and making a change in at least one of those positions to someone who could help implement fresh offensive schemes or develop the bigs. Placing hope on a less competitive conference next season as a recipe for greater success is not a formula for improving UC's performance.
This is an intriguing idea.

I agree that no employee should be above review, however I don't think that Mick should have something like a coaching change dictated to him. This was the first season in his tenure that we didn't improve. He's also got his best recruiting class coming in. I think our offensive struggles came a lot more from personnel than coaching, specifically no inside players with any skill and a one legged point guard. Mick says Strickland is a low post scorer with great hands. If we suck again offensively then maybe you tell him next year he needs to add an offensive X and Os guy but at this point he's earned the benefit of the doubt.
 
04-02-2013 09:26 AM
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bearcatmill Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-01-2013 09:18 PM)GameTime_21 Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 08:58 PM)50Cent Wrote:  So Micks spiel is just spiel. Just save the bs talk and win a few more games.

No he's a guy that is legit working at his dream job. But he isn't going to do that forever with other programs throwing double the money or more while he is paid like a mid major coach on the home town discount. If he is paid the going rate for his status as a coach, he will stay. Only difference with UL is it is the one spot he built strong relationships outside of Cincinnati and they are printing their own money in support of the program down there.

Let's say UL comes at him with 6 years for 3.5 mil per and UC can't go above 1.8. Turning that down is much easier for Joe Fan to say than it is for the person staring life changing money right between the eyes...

I definately see Mick considering the uofl job when it were to open and uofl had an interest in him. I have listened to the uofl coach's show, in the past, and the show's host and uofl personnel had nothing but respect for Mick.

When it comes to Mick's salary - does he not make an amount commensurate with his experience/results? I would not expect him to make as much as Pitino, since he has achieved so much more. I would not even expect him to make as much as Stevens, since he has been to multiple Final Fours. Of course, I could becompletely wrong and it does not matter what you achieve. Just a matter of outbidding everyone else out there, who seems to have an interest.

If I were Mick and this is truly my dream job, I would be more interested in them pumping money into the program/facilities, as opposed to my salary.
 
04-02-2013 09:35 AM
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cinbinsportsfan Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 09:26 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 08:52 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 08:45 AM)indycat Wrote:  While I believe Mick will (and should be) rewarded by UC for remaining loyal and rebuilding the program I also believe that he, like any employee, should be coached and mentored for improved performance. That may mean evaluating his assistant coaches and making a change in at least one of those positions to someone who could help implement fresh offensive schemes or develop the bigs. Placing hope on a less competitive conference next season as a recipe for greater success is not a formula for improving UC's performance.
This is an intriguing idea.

I agree that no employee should be above review, however I don't think that Mick should have something like a coaching change dictated to him. This was the first season in his tenure that we didn't improve. He's also got his best recruiting class coming in. I think our offensive struggles came a lot more from personnel than coaching, specifically no inside players with any skill and a one legged point guard. Mick says Strickland is a low post scorer with great hands. If we suck again offensively then maybe you tell him next year he needs to add an offensive X and Os guy but at this point he's earned the benefit of the doubt.

I agree coaches generally shouldn't have their assistants messed with by higher ups in the athletic department. However I think Mick or whomever works with the low post players needs to make some corrections.

I think it was clear this season that UC relied too heavily on the natural athletic abilities of Yancy Gates for 4 years while the development of the other post players has gone by the wayside. IMO, Jackson has plateaued and Mbodj never really shined until late into his 2nd season. And maybe that's part of the problem, that Mick and his crew haven't had enough time to work with guys like Mbodj and Nyarsuk because they had just 2 years of eligibility left. But then I look at 4-year guys like Jackson and Gaines and I go back to thinking that the player development area with these players has been lacking.
 
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2013 09:43 AM by cinbinsportsfan.)
04-02-2013 09:43 AM
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cinbinsportsfan Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 09:35 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 09:18 PM)GameTime_21 Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 08:58 PM)50Cent Wrote:  So Micks spiel is just spiel. Just save the bs talk and win a few more games.

No he's a guy that is legit working at his dream job. But he isn't going to do that forever with other programs throwing double the money or more while he is paid like a mid major coach on the home town discount. If he is paid the going rate for his status as a coach, he will stay. Only difference with UL is it is the one spot he built strong relationships outside of Cincinnati and they are printing their own money in support of the program down there.

Let's say UL comes at him with 6 years for 3.5 mil per and UC can't go above 1.8. Turning that down is much easier for Joe Fan to say than it is for the person staring life changing money right between the eyes...

I definately see Mick considering the uofl job when it were to open and uofl had an interest in him. I have listened to the uofl coach's show, in the past, and the show's host and uofl personnel had nothing but respect for Mick.

When it comes to Mick's salary - does he not make an amount commensurate with his experience/results? I would not expect him to make as much as Pitino, since he has achieved so much more. I would not even expect him to make as much as Stevens, since he has been to multiple Final Fours. Of course, I could becompletely wrong and it does not matter what you achieve. Just a matter of outbidding everyone else out there, who seems to have an interest.

If I were Mick and this is truly my dream job, I would be more interested in them pumping money into the program/facilities, as opposed to my salary.

IIRC, I believe Mick deferred part of his own salary in the most recent raise/contract extension to give his assistants more money and increase his budget. I'm not certain, though.
 
04-02-2013 09:46 AM
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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 09:43 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  I think it was clear this season that UC relied too heavily on the natural athletic abilities of Yancy Gates for 4 years while the development of the other post players has gone by the wayside. IMO, Jackson has plateaued and Mbodj never really shined until late into his 2nd season. And maybe that's part of the problem, that Mick and his crew haven't had enough time to work with guys like Mbodj and Nyarsuk because they had just 2 years of eligibility left. But then I look at 4-year guys like Jackson and Gaines and I go back to thinking that the player development area with these players has been lacking.

I understand you're point, I just don't think it's as clear as you do. Player development takes two things; coaching but more importantly the drive of the player. I don't want to criticize a good 4 year player like Gates but lets just say his drive wasn't unquestioned. Mbodj as you said started to develop towards the end but we just ran out of time. I hope I'm wrong but Nyarsuk and Gaines just don't apear to have the ability. You have to be able to catch the ball before you can do anything with it. Gaines specifically has the worst hands and touch of any player I've ever seen and I just don't think that there's much you can do with that.

Is Cronin blameless? Absolutely not, he recruited every one of these players. I just believe he's accomplished enough where he doesn't have to be questioned yet.
 
04-02-2013 10:49 AM
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cinbinsportsfan Offline
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Post: #89
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 10:49 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 09:43 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  I think it was clear this season that UC relied too heavily on the natural athletic abilities of Yancy Gates for 4 years while the development of the other post players has gone by the wayside. IMO, Jackson has plateaued and Mbodj never really shined until late into his 2nd season. And maybe that's part of the problem, that Mick and his crew haven't had enough time to work with guys like Mbodj and Nyarsuk because they had just 2 years of eligibility left. But then I look at 4-year guys like Jackson and Gaines and I go back to thinking that the player development area with these players has been lacking.

I understand you're point, I just don't think it's as clear as you do. Player development takes two things; coaching but more importantly the drive of the player. I don't want to criticize a good 4 year player like Gates but lets just say his drive wasn't unquestioned. Mbodj as you said started to develop towards the end but we just ran out of time. I hope I'm wrong but Nyarsuk and Gaines just don't apear to have the ability. You have to be able to catch the ball before you can do anything with it. Gaines specifically has the worst hands and touch of any player I've ever seen and I just don't think that there's much you can do with that.

Is Cronin blameless? Absolutely not, he recruited every one of these players. I just believe he's accomplished enough where he doesn't have to be questioned yet.

Yea I hear ya that player development is a two-way street but after 7 years I tend to think the blame starts to shift from the players to the coaches. Players came and went but the coaching staff for all intents and purposes has stayed the same. That's just me, though.
 
04-02-2013 11:03 AM
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Marcus Offline
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Post: #90
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
I think Cronin is a solid coach, especially defensively. Clearly one (or both) out of recruiting/player development is lacking when it comes to the big men though. Outside of Gates none of them have had any offensive skills and they've all had terrible hands. I still think a lot of it has to do with recruiting and the focus of going after guys who are superior athletes but poorly skilled players. I suspsect the staff thinks they can develop these guys into quality offensive players, but that clearly has not been the case. Hopefully that does change with Strickland and Lawrence in this class but I have to see it to believe it.
 
04-02-2013 01:22 PM
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Post: #91
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 01:22 PM)Marcus Wrote:  I think Cronin is a solid coach, especially defensively. Clearly one (or both) out of recruiting/player development is lacking when it comes to the big men though. Outside of Gates none of them have had any offensive skills and they've all had terrible hands. I still think a lot of it has to do with recruiting and the focus of going after guys who are superior athletes but poorly skilled players. I suspsect the staff thinks they can develop these guys into quality offensive players, but that clearly has not been the case. Hopefully that does change with Strickland and Lawrence in this class but I have to see it to believe it.

At a bare minimum, all these guys should be able to shoot free throws at a 70% clip. UC's free throw shooting is inexcusable.
 
04-02-2013 02:21 PM
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Post: #92
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 02:21 PM)chatcat Wrote:  At a bare minimum, all these guys should be able to shoot free throws at a 70% clip. UC's free throw shooting is inexcusable.

You've being sarcastic right? 70% is awfully high to expect big men to shoot. Do a little research and see how many big men actually shoot 70%, I'm sure it's less than 1 in 5.
 
04-02-2013 02:31 PM
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Post: #93
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 02:31 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 02:21 PM)chatcat Wrote:  At a bare minimum, all these guys should be able to shoot free throws at a 70% clip. UC's free throw shooting is inexcusable.

You've being sarcastic right? 70% is awfully high to expect big men to shoot. Do a little research and see how many big men actually shoot 70%, I'm sure it's less than 1 in 5.

As a team 70% minimum isn't asking much. 161 college teams averaged
at least 70%. And considering UC's difficulty scoring, then getting good at FTs is an easy way to score.
 
04-02-2013 02:40 PM
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Post: #94
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
If you take out Parker's abysmal 54% from the line you are almost there as a team at 67%. He shot the 2nd most FT on the team, just one less Kilpatrick. Everyone else was well behind those two. With Parker graduating the FT% should improve greatly.
 
04-02-2013 02:42 PM
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RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men...eam/150/p7

UC was #302 in FT percentage, .64
 
04-02-2013 02:42 PM
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cinbinsportsfan Offline
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Post: #96
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 02:42 PM)subflea Wrote:  If you take out Parker's abysmal 54% from the line you are almost there as a team at 67%. He shot the 2nd most FT on the team, just one less Kilpatrick. Everyone else was well behind those two. With Parker graduating the FT% should improve greatly.

Good point about Parker. But while you lose his poor FT % UC will also lose Cash's really strong FT %.
 
04-02-2013 02:44 PM
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Post: #97
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
When he said all those guys, I took that to mean every player on the team should average 70%, not the team should average 70%. I agree with those who said outside Parker FT shooting wasn't a big issue with the team. SK underperformed from what I expect of him but not nearly enought to drastically change our offense.
 
04-02-2013 02:50 PM
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Bearcat04 Offline
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Post: #98
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 02:44 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 02:42 PM)subflea Wrote:  If you take out Parker's abysmal 54% from the line you are almost there as a team at 67%. He shot the 2nd most FT on the team, just one less Kilpatrick. Everyone else was well behind those two. With Parker graduating the FT% should improve greatly.

Good point about Parker. But while you lose his poor FT % UC will also lose Cash's really strong FT %.

Guyn and Caupain will have trouble filling Cash's shoes next year, but FT shooting will not be a problem. Both are very good FT shooters.
 
04-02-2013 02:53 PM
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RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 02:40 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 02:31 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 02:21 PM)chatcat Wrote:  At a bare minimum, all these guys should be able to shoot free throws at a 70% clip. UC's free throw shooting is inexcusable.

You've being sarcastic right? 70% is awfully high to expect big men to shoot. Do a little research and see how many big men actually shoot 70%, I'm sure it's less than 1 in 5.

As a team 70% minimum isn't asking much. 161 college teams averaged
at least 70%. And considering UC's difficulty scoring, then getting good at FTs is an easy way to score.

Exactly!
 
04-02-2013 02:54 PM
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Post: #100
RE: Mick Cronin a candiate for UCLA and USC openings?
(04-02-2013 02:53 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  Guyn and Caupain will have trouble filling Cash's shoes next year, but FT shooting will not be a problem. Both are very good FT shooters.

I love Guyn's FT stroke, one of the best I've seen here. Not sure if his style will get him to the line a lot though.
 
04-02-2013 02:59 PM
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