From the tone it is pretty clear Bartow is not getting fired this year. He said Bartow had been on the road for 13 straight days recruiting after the A-Sun tournament.Which sounds like a lot with only 1 scholarship to give at the moment. Said he was looking for help to fill holes on the perimeter and to get more athletic so theycould run a more up tempo style of play and press more. Nobody feels worse about losing the Murry and he is busting his hump trying to get back to competing for
championships and he knows he has to work on things and what he has to work on.

Very discouraged by what I heard, if the voice wasn't different (slightly, he used just as many Hmmms, uhhhs. You knows and likes as Mullins) I would have thought it was Mullins. ETSU is letting basketball, the current and for the foreseeable furture the face on athletic suffer and die a slow death gambling on football. To me that is not
acceptable. If they can't figure out Bartow needs to be gone and see the decline of basketball I don't have alot of confidence they can build a football program from scratch.

I hope I am wrong but until the figure out basketball I am not going to waste one cent on giving to ETSU athletics. I will probably keep going to basketball games, I am not sure. Going to ETSU basketball games with my father has been something we have done together for over 30 years now, keeping that tradition alive is the ONLY reason I will probably continue to attend games next year. Very disappointed, not even sure a yes in football will cheer me up since the "birth" of football seems to come at the expense of the death of basketball.


PS He said the process for hiring a women's coach is not going to happen until the final four to see what coach become avaible at that time as other schools make
moves.

Surely not. Football and basketball must be the faces of athletics. If it requires rearranging priorities, that must start with the minor sports, not basketball. The money will be there to properly fund both at the mid-major/FCS level. I just can't see Noland deemphasizing basketball, no way. Let's assume Bartow has been given one year to turn things around, and has been shown the consequences if he does not. If the women's coach "retired" , then Bartow's "retirement" would follow that lead if he doesn't get it done.

Folks, I know I'll be flamed, but I feel compelled to interject a dose of reality into the discussion. I know a number of you have a bitter disdain for Bartow, but let's get real here.

ETSU is looking to join a new conference, and hopefully a better and more stable conference. Let's look at what ETSU has to offer.

Conference Commissioner X: "Can you tell me about the direction of your athletic department"
Response: "Well we have an interim athletic director, and..."

Conference Commissioner X follows up: "Well there are three visible sports, tell me about how you stand with those."
Response:" Well right now, we hope to look for a football coach, and by the way a women's basketball coach, ours retired. Our men's basketball coach has been in place for a number of years."
Conference Commissioner X follows up: "So to clarify, you are seeking coaches for 2/3 of your visible sports".
Response: "Ummm, well yes you could put it that way."
Conference Commissioner X continues: "Tell me about your attendance in the visible sports?"
Response: "We are proud that we lead the conference."
Conference Commissioner X follows up: "And your conference is the A-Sun correct?"

Commissioner X continues: "What about your facilities for the three visible sports?"
Response: "Well we play both men's and women's basketball in an arena designed for football that is x years beyond it's projected useful life. We have just completed a new practice facility and are in the process of updating our playing arena."
Commissioner X follows up: "You failed to mention where you will play football?"
Response: "We're not sure."

Conference Commissioner X follows up: "Can you tell us about your compliance with NCAA rules?"
Response: "Well right now we have an interim compliance officer, but, we are looking to hire someone really soon. We've not had any issues in the past and we're proud of that."

Conference Commissioner X summarizes: "Now let me see if I have this correct. You have an interim AD, an interim compliance officer, are looking for a women's basketball coach and hope to look for a football coach. The longest serving member of your most visible sports is your men's basketball coach, correct? Your basketball facility is in the early stages of updates and you don't have a football facility."
Response: "umm....well...yes that about sums it up.

Imagine conversation above without even a stable men's basketball coach/team.

I know that's not what everyone wants to hear, but that is the reality. Moving to a decent conference is tough and a vacancy in the basketball coach's seat would just make it tougher. Right now Bartow, ETSU academics, airport access and a top 100 media market are the selling points to a new conference. Bartow is well known in the coaching community and apparently well liked within that community.

Flame if you wish, I have my fire retardant suit on as we speak.

It's not a tinfoil hat statement so you shouldn't be. Well thought out post. And you're right. They chose to dump Kemp, and calling that a retirement is a farce. If it was, where was the celebration? Press conference?
By the way has her job even been POSTED as available yet?
Seriously though, two years left for Murry, he'll coach next year, hopefully the SmallCon or OVC will bring ETSU in effective July 1, 2013, we can dump this hell hole league, suffer one more year in basketball then fire him and probably all of the assistants and start over once a new, permanent A.D. is put in place.

No flames here...some valid points (scenario)

(03-27-2013 12:14 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  Folks, I know I'll be flamed, but I feel compelled to interject a dose of reality into the discussion. I know a number of you have a bitter disdain for Bartow, but let's get real here.

ETSU is looking to join a new conference, and hopefully a better and more stable conference. Let's look at what ETSU has to offer.

Conference Commissioner X: "Can you tell me about the direction of your athletic department"
Response: "Well we have an interim athletic director, and..."

Conference Commissioner X follows up: "Well there are three visible sports, tell me about how you stand with those."
Response:" Well right now, we hope to look for a football coach, and by the way a women's basketball coach, ours retired. Our men's basketball coach has been in place for a number of years."
Conference Commissioner X follows up: "So to clarify, you are seeking coaches for 2/3 of your visible sports".
Response: "Ummm, well yes you could put it that way."
Conference Commissioner X continues: "Tell me about your attendance in the visible sports?"
Response: "We are proud that we lead the conference."
Conference Commissioner X follows up: "And your conference is the A-Sun correct?"

Commissioner X continues: "What about your facilities for the three visible sports?"
Response: "Well we play both men's and women's basketball in an arena designed for football that is x years beyond it's projected useful life. We have just completed a new practice facility and are in the process of updating our playing arena."
Commissioner X follows up: "You failed to mention where you will play football?"
Response: "We're not sure."

Conference Commissioner X follows up: "Can you tell us about your compliance with NCAA rules?"
Response: "Well right now we have an interim compliance officer, but, we are looking to hire someone really soon. We've not had any issues in the past and we're proud of that."

Conference Commissioner X summarizes: "Now let me see if I have this correct. You have an interim AD, an interim compliance officer, are looking for a women's basketball coach and hope to look for a football coach. The longest serving member of your most visible sports is your men's basketball coach, correct? Your basketball facility is in the early stages of updates and you don't have a football facility."
Response: "umm....well...yes that about sums it up.

Imagine conversation above without even a stable men's basketball coach/team.

I know that's not what everyone wants to hear, but that is the reality. Moving to a decent conference is tough and a vacancy in the basketball coach's seat would just make it tougher. Right now Bartow, ETSU academics, airport access and a top 100 media market are the selling points to a new conference. Bartow is well known in the coaching community and apparently well liked within that community.

Flame if you wish, I have my fire retardant suit on as we speak.

Agree 100%

They leave Bartow in charge of the basketball program for two more years might as well grab the shovels and throw the dirt on top because he will have buried it in a hole so deep the fans won't give a damn. I already don't.

One more season. Lame duck coaches suck, but it is what it is.

Respectfully, BucDoctor....
...that's not the way those conversations go.

Some of your points are valid, but it's not like it's an interview for a job. Depending on the institution, most of the background study and so forth is done at the AD level. At most forward-thinking universities, there should be, and is, close collaboration between the AD and Prez. My point is that everybody knows almost everything about everybody else already. So the back-and-forth doesn't look quite like that. (And I think you know that; it was a cleverly-staged dialogue, however.)

More importantly, if bartow were going to be fired, I think that would have happened already, probably at the 70-80% confidence level. Which means far from certain, but I think they would have pulled the trigger if they were going to. While I hate that, as I've said before, I believe in an institution, just like a person, holding up their end of a bargain, even though the world doesn't always work that way. mullins screwed ETSU big-time with that extension, and most of us who were paying attention knew it at the time.

We'll have a women's basketball coach soon. We'll have a football coach just a little after that, if not possibly sooner. And I think "the list" for that is shorter than some might think. There *may* even be a tentative thing worked out already. We'll have 3 new women's teams, as well. [Hint: use that info to match up what we *don't* currently have with what other conferences *do* have, to figure out where we're planning on going.] Certainly our facilities are a considerable stumbling block, but like I say, everybody who needs to know already knows this. And we've shown, over the last 5 years or so, at least the *willingness* to go in that direction, haphazardly and flawed as those moves have been.

There is validity in the negativity (how's that for a phrase?) our current situation projects to other conferences, no doubt. But Noland and Sander both, I feel, are capable of "walking the walk". Certainly Sander has the cred to do so, and his contacts are vast and wide. Not to mention, it may turn out that whatever conference we're aiming for most needs us as much as we need them. Let's hope that's the case. These conferences are all about looking for stability at this time - something ETSU doesn't project - BUT, with the changes being made, it's clear to a keen outside observer that *finally*, the trajectory of this program has turned around.

We're all anxious about wanting to know what's going to happen; that's natural. But within a very few months, we'll have more of our ducks in a row, and we will be able to give a better 'face' to conferences looking to add. That's on top of the points you make, BucDoctor, about ETSU's academics (it's considered a "research institution"), top 100 media market, and airport access. We may look pretty shabby right now, but bottom has hopefully (and most probably) been hit, and these conferences are just as interested in trajectory as anything else. Do we have as positive a trajectory as Belmont or FGCU? Of course not, but the potential for *some* significant upward progress is quite clear to those who look for it - i.e. conference commissioners, ADs, and Prezs.

It looks like we are planning on going to the CAA if what you say is true. The OVC only has one women's sport that we don't have and that is rifle. The SoCon has no additional sports. The CAA though, has four. Rowing, women's lacrosse, swimming/diving, and field hockey.

I had heard though, that the CAA has no interest in ETSU.

One more thing --

I know what you mean about the way he speaks. He almost sounds meek and very wishy-washy a lot of the time. Don't be fooled; he knows how to carry the big stick and carry it well. He's also got nothing to lose, no personal career agenda to further, and I'm convinced he's bought fully into doing the best things he can for this university in the time he's here.

I personally wonder if he and Noland both *wished* they could fire bartow, but the buyout would've been hard for the TBR to swallow, especially at a time when Noland comes asking for approval for the fee increase. They normally don't go for that stuff (buyouts), and I never could nail down whether it was fact or fiction that someone had offered to put up the money to buy bartow out. I also wonder if Sander and bartow's meeting involved some discussion of a possible buyout (to which we know bartow would have said "absolutely not! Are you crazy? Who would hire me?"). But that's sheer speculation, nothing more.

(03-27-2013 03:14 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  It looks like we are planning on going to the CAA if what you say is true. The OVC only has one women's sport that we don't have and that is rifle. The SoCon has no additional sports. The CAA though, has four. Rowing, women's lacrosse, swimming/diving, and field hockey.

hmmmm......(thedoctor pretends not to know that already)

Yes, we probably (but not necessarily if you have been schooled well by MommaBear) need to add sports for Title IX reasons. But 3? And how did they pick the number 3? Do you just add sports with no competition to play? No, you don't. You try to match your needs to what conference you're competing in.
I can't say for sure, but you've obviously seen what I was inferring from the hint. Sometimes those little tea leaves speak a tad bit more than just a whisper.

(03-27-2013 03:14 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  I had heard though, that the CAA has no interest in ETSU.

Yes, I had heard that, too. But that was "then" (like a couple months or so ago?). And I don't discount that. I'm just sayin'......you announce 3 new women's sports....you must have some purpose in that. Noland didn't say "we'll be adding women's sports". Had said, specifically, 3. The fact that they already know how many, and almost certainly what they are, *seems* to be very telling.

(03-27-2013 03:14 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  It looks like we are planning on going to the CAA if what you say is true. The OVC only has one women's sport that we don't have and that is rifle. The SoCon has no additional sports. The CAA though, has four. Rowing, women's lacrosse, swimming/diving, and field hockey.

I had heard though, that the CAA has no interest in ETSU.

Hopefully getting Sander on board has sparked their interest.

(03-27-2013 08:21 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  I hope I am wrong but until the figure out basketball I am not going to waste one cent on giving to ETSU athletics. I will probably keep going to basketball games, I am not sure. Going to ETSU basketball games with my father has been something we have done together for over 30 years now, keeping that tradition alive is the ONLY reason I will probably continue to attend games next year. Very disappointed, not even sure a yes in football will cheer me up since the "birth" of football seems to come at the expense of the death of basketball.

So much negativity Rod, I don't see why your so down in the mouth. For the first time in a decade Bartow is going to truly be graded on his (or the teams) performance next year. If the 2013 season is just like the 2012 season, i guarantee he's a goner.

To me, this is the best part of the interview. "Said he was looking for help to fill holes on the perimeter and to get more athletic so they could run a more up tempo style of play and press more." That sounds an awful lot like a vcu lead team. Isn't that what we've been wanting to fix for years? Obviously Noland and Sander have pointed this out to Bartow and told him what needs to be fixed. I've posted many times about wanting Bartow gone, but i guess i'm in for ONE more year.

Plus, football is coming back! Cheer up, mate.

(03-27-2013 03:14 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  It looks like we are planning on going to the CAA if what you say is true. The OVC only has one women's sport that we don't have and that is rifle. The SoCon has no additional sports. The CAA though, has four. Rowing, women's lacrosse, swimming/diving, and field hockey.

I had heard though, that the CAA has no interest in ETSU.

I think its true that the CAA has had no interest in ETSU, but now George Mason is gone along with the previous 3. The CAA has suffered some big blows over the last few months and JMU and Delaware keep being rumored as well. If Davidson leaves and goes straight to the A10 instead of the CAA, then the CAA may have to look outside the comfort zone. Furthermore, if Davidson does leave then the Socon is no longer a suitable spot for us, in my opinion.

Oh, and just in case anybody's wondering, the Sun Belt only offers swimming and diving in women's sports, that ETSU doesn't already have. Also, with today's coordinated (4) announcements, I think we can be fairly sure that the Sun Belt is set - at least based on the way things appear to be settling out.

(I'm not implying anyone here thought we might end up there, just pointing that out.....)

Ok...so let's say we add swimming and diving (not sure if the CPA can handle that with modification or not), lacrosse, and gymnastics (relatively cheap) or field hockey (relatively cheap I think). Rowing, I know has been discussed, and I pointed out that Ft. Patrick Henry lake was at one time deemed to be the most likely place to practice and compete. Maybe even that's moderately cheap after buying the boats? Anyway....are there enough regional teams that these ETSU women's teams could compete with outside the CAA? (I'm not sure either way, just posing the question. Certainly the answer is not an obvious 'yes'.)

Like others on this board, I was months ago led to believe we were going to the SoCon, assuming football was approved. My sense is that Sander and Noland have wavered on that, waiting to see how things play out. But I don't know that for a fact. (And now that Appy and Ga. Southern are gone, we all know that the SoCon somewhat suddenly became less of a good fit.)

I certainly think the CAA is more likely at this moment than it has been at any time before this very day. I'm not at all being anti-OVC, but if we go there, with whom are these 3 new women's teams going to compete?

One tiny more tidbit: the CAA's commissioner, headquartered in Richmond, very recently was quoted as saying, despite the losses of teams, "we'll be fine". The context of it, reading between the lines, made it sound like there were plans under way to fill in the gaps. Whether that would include ETSU or not, I really don't know. Just a tidbit.

Hey Poster - I was the one who said we were headed to the SoCon, because that's what I was told @ the time. Regardless of what happens, I do know Noland & Sander did waiver on going to the SoCon, because the SoCon starting to waiver on us, hoping for CAA teams to come to the SoCon when that league fell apart due to the Big East fallout. The CAA as I understand it then renewed their interest in us. I am also not sure that's where we are going or not, and you may be right, it's the CAA, although at the town hall meeting it sounded like our interest in the CAA was low.

I don't think it's the OVC. Yes, a good basketball league, but travel is pretty heavy and it's not a great football fit, and my read is that the community in general isn't excited about the OVC, although it's an obviously good fit because most of the school are public state regional institutions. A lot of people I have been talking to prefer the SoCon, even with Appy & GSU gone. An obvious advantage to the SoCon are the proximity of opponents and the league tournament is in Asheville in men's bball. The disadvantage is a rival just left, and not sure of it's strength in football with two solid teams leaving along with this private/public school split - they don't get along. These are my thoughts on this, not Sanders or anyone elses.

Regardless, I can assure everyone, this is the first step towards taking us to the Sun Belt or another "like" conference to move up the ladder. This isn't a one year plan, it's a 5-10 year plan.

I had heard some of the private schools on the Socon were down on us because our minor sports are fully funded as opposed to theirs.

(03-27-2013 04:34 PM)Buced_Up Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 08:21 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  I hope I am wrong but until the figure out basketball I am not going to waste one cent on giving to ETSU athletics. I will probably keep going to basketball games, I am not sure. Going to ETSU basketball games with my father has been something we have done together for over 30 years now, keeping that tradition alive is the ONLY reason I will probably continue to attend games next year. Very disappointed, not even sure a yes in football will cheer me up since the "birth" of football seems to come at the expense of the death of basketball.

So much negativity Rod, I don't see why your so down in the mouth. For the first time in a decade Bartow is going to truly be graded on his (or the teams) performance next year. If the 2013 season is just like the 2012 season, i guarantee he's a goner.

To me, this is the best part of the interview. "Said he was looking for help to fill holes on the perimeter and to get more athletic so they could run a more up tempo style of play and press more." That sounds an awful lot like a vcu lead team. Isn't that what we've been wanting to fix for years? Obviously Noland and Sander have pointed this out to Bartow and told him what needs to be fixed. I've posted many times about wanting Bartow gone, but i guess i'm in for ONE more year.

Plus, football is coming back! Cheer up, mate.

I saw that. Can an AD actually get an old coach to change his ways and expect him to do so with enthusiasm? If that's the case, could we expect to see the assistants playing a bigger role? Or, can Bartow actually change?