Don't ever underestimate Shippensburg.

(03-24-2013 08:39 PM)Bucfaithful Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 08:33 PM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  I will laugh my ass off if they can somehow keep this up and beat Florida.

I would have said that's there is no way in hell that they could beat UF, but they're making me a believer. This team is brimming with confidence.

Maybe Bartow will learn from Coach Enfield on how to breed confidence and belief? On second thought....nevermind.

I'm glad you had a second thought. Bartow is a very stubborn man when it comes to sticking with losing techniques. Another phrase for it is "he has a closed mind." It's one of the top reasons I want him to disappear.

I remember UTC doing this back in 1997 - got to the sweet 16 but I forget what seed they started as

(03-24-2013 09:25 PM)etsualumni00 Wrote:  I remember UTC doing this back in 1997 - got to the sweet 16 but I forget what seed they started as

UTC was a 14 in 1997 and at the time they were the second 14 to make the sweet 16.

This is a facebook quote from a Buccaneer friend. I can't agree more.

"The drawback to Gulf Coast winning is people thinking we are now in a good conference with high level basketball."

(03-24-2013 08:29 PM)etsubuc Wrote:  http://www.news-press.com/article/201303...-s-success

This article says that each game Florida Gulf Coast wins, the conference receives $250,000. Hopefully some of that trickles down to ETSU.

In what's possibly a very ironic twist, *if* ETSU has indeed already paid the exit fee to leave the ASun, depending on what point in time that's effective, we may lose out on that money. One would *think* that the day it becomes official is the anniversary of when we started in the league (thus not yet), but who knows? Also, some of that money continues, at a lesser rate, the following year, unless they've changed that formula.

(03-24-2013 08:41 PM)etsubuc Wrote:  Yes the OVC is a huge step up. Belmont would have been a bubble team this year if they had lost in the conference championship game. FGCU is not nearly as good of a team as some of the Belmont teams were in the last few years, and I dont think they are as good as ETSU's 2004 and 2009 teams. Their run is amazing, partly because of this fact. But this does not mean that the ASUN is a great conference and does not make it better than the OVC overall.

And yet FGCU is still playing while Belmont is not. They've won two games in the tournament, while the teams you mention didn't win one between them. Byrd's system doesn't translate against major schools with superior athletes, while Enfield's does. It's not rocket science.

If Belmont had lost to Murray State in the OVC final, they would be headed straight for the NIT, and Murray would probably be headed for a first-round (technically second round, I guess) exit. The OVC is still a one-bid league. Hell, anywhere we could realistically end up is going to be a one-bid league. If you stack the A-Sun against the OVC, there really isn't a huge difference in terms of postseason success over the last five postseasons (2009-2013). One conference is not tangibly better than the other in terms of exposure or quality of play. "Belmont is in it" is not a legitimate reason for wanting to go the OVC; more favorable travel schedule, having a natural home for the football program and playing against more natural geographic rivals (not to mention fellow Tennessee public schools) are very legitimate reasons, and we should still continue looking to leave the A-Sun for those reasons, but thinking that switching back to the OVC or SoCon is going to be a magic bullet for the basketball program is misguided.

What the Eagles are doing is really impressive. They're playing with flair and are really fun to watch. They've really captured national attention. I wonder if they can keep Enfield and build on this momentum the way VCU has with Shaka Smart, or if FGCU will be a public Davidson, who has that occasional flash of real high quality and tournament success but can't sustain it.

Quote:etsubuc: Yes the OVC is a huge step up. Belmont would have been a bubble team this year if they had lost in the conference championship game.

Quote:Mister Consistency: If Belmont had lost to Murray State in the OVC final, they would be headed straight for the NIT, and Murray would probably be headed for a first-round (technically second round, I guess) exit. The OVC is still a one-bid league.

I respectfully, but strongly disagree with these parts of those overall statements. Belmont was somewhere between #17 and #21 RPI, depending on which list one looked at. *In general*, I do believe the OVC is a one-bid league, but if Murray had won that game, it would have been 2 bids this year. We'll never know, but I just can't imagine otherwise.

I don't disagree with the overall content of those two posts, however.
The Eagles are indeed massively fun to watch. I submit that the FGCU team we've been watching on TV this week is not the same one we came back and beat at the Dome this year. They've grown, and grown to believe in themselves since that time.

(03-24-2013 10:40 PM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  Byrd's system doesn't translate against major schools with superior athletes, while Enfield's does. It's not rocket science.

If Belmont had lost to Murray State in the OVC final, they would be headed straight for the NIT, and Murray would probably be headed for a first-round (technically second round, I guess) exit.

I'm sorry, but I feel compelled to chime-in on both your first paragraph conclusion and your second paragraph speculation. Before I do, please note that I do this from a perspective of a being a Belmont fan who has been attending Belmont games since 1984. So, let there be no doubt, that I am definitely slanted in my opinions.

That said, I find it interesting that you refer to "Byrd's system." I find myself to be somewhat perplexed as to what this singular system is. I was a sophomore when Coach Byrd came to Belmont, and our team has been evolving ever since. For instance, in 1987, his "system" featured a grand total of 7 players on the team. He had to enlist blossoming country singer Vince Gill to practice with the team just so they could scrimmage 4-on-4. In 1989, he developed his team into a 1-in, 4-out line up (1 big surrounded by a bunch of shooters/slashers). This worked very well for Joe Behling (our center) to set a school record in single game scoring (52) against Lipscomb. As we transitioned to D-1 in the late 90's-early 2000's, we played dual 6'8" posts (2-in, 3-out) with Adam Mark and Adam Sonn. This allowed for our shooters to establish Belmont as a legitimate 3-point threat. Since that period, until this year, we have enjoyed a strong inside-out game (pick your poison) between our shooting guards (like Andy Wicke, Justin Hare, Jese Snyder, Josh Goodwin [Josh set The Dome's 3-point scoring record vs. ETSU in 2006], etc.) and a long line of bigs (Boomer Hernden, Andrew Preston, Scott Saunders, Mick Hedgepeth, etc.). This year's team's lone big (6'11" Chad Lang) is still developing and rarely played. Coach Byrd was forced to play 6'7" forward Trever Noack in the 5-spot where, truth be known, he often migrated out to the arc to help with 3-point duties, giving Belmont a 5-out line up.

If you were to say that "Byrd's system" doesn't translate into March Madness success, I would be in 150% agreement (except for the "system" categorization). But, to say that it "doesn't translate against major schools with superior athletes," would be viewed as erroneous by Missouri, Wright State, Cincinnati, Alabama, Evansville, Portland State, Miami-OH, Arkansas State, Towson, Marshall, South Dakota State, Ohio University, Stanford University, Mercer, FGCU, and ETSU (all basketball-rich schools we've beaten going back to '04). I wish I could include Duke in that list, but the two times we played the Blue Devils (once in the NCAA's and once in Cameron Indoor Stadium), we lost in the last seconds by 1 lousy point (we're 0-2 against Duke by a total of 2 points). So, Belmont basketball most certainly does translate against "superior athletes." It has for years. The unfortunate fact is that they COMPLETELY lose their edge in the 1 1/2 weeks between conference and NCAA's (as evidenced by a whopping first half 20 points, followed by a 44 point 2nd half this year). In each of the 6 NCAA Tournament trips Belmont has made (including the Duke game), I saw an uncharacteristically poor shooting team that in no way resembles the regular season team.

The only thing I can find on line about "Byrd's system" is a recent CBS Sports write-up that states something about Byrd wanting to sign the right kids...the Belmont kids. From a fan perspective, that's great with me. I'd rather have a group of skinny brainiacs who will go out and beat a #9 Missouri, a Big East Cincinatti, or a Pac-12 Stanford than to have a bunch of athletic felons who let their team down (not picking on ETSU, in this state UT has more trouble makers than anybody...ETSU's recent troubles are an anomaly in the school's 100+ year history and won't be repeated for another 100 years). Here's the CBS article about Rick Byrd if you want to read it: http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...-rick-byrd

About speculating a loss against Murray in the OVC title game and Belmont goes to the NIT, many professional analysts had a different view from that stance by way of Belmont's #21 RPI and #2 OOC SOS. ESPN, CBS, Yahoo Sports, and others all speculated (prior to the OVC tournament) that a Murray win would make the OVC a 2-bid league, and a Belmont win would not.

The tournament is all about matchups. Our Pittsburg matchup (and especially Kentucky) and Belmont's Wisconsin matchup a couple years ago were much more difficult than this year's Georgetown was for FGCU. Having said that, in all 3 cases the BCS conference team was a better team. There is no way to argue that FGCU is better than Georgetown because they won this game. Georgetown would win 8 out of 10 times if they played. In the same way, you cant say just because that Belmont team lost to Duke by 1, that their team was not better than FGCU this year.

All of the arguing over leagues is really pointless. ASun, OVC, and SoCon are essentially the same because the league reputation won't get you into the post-season. All of the programs that have had success fom these leagues are the outliers who are clearly better than the league. They built good programs, scheduled well out of conference, and then dominated the league. That's how you build success in a one bid league. You aren't going to get any credit for a conference loss. Davidson is not a product of the SoCon, they are superior to the rest of the league and have built their rep beating teams out of conference. Same can be said for Belmont and Murray St in recent years. FGCU isn't a sign of strength of the ASun, they're showing that Enfield has built something special in Ft Myers. Relying on league strength to buoy your success is foolish in these leagues. Yu have to try to build a team that outclasses the league, so people ask what you are doing in that league.

And I do think the ASun, SoCon, and OVC are basically a wash. One bid leagues, tournament champ is going.

To me the biggest concern for ETSU with the post season success of FGCU is, how can ETSU recruit from Florida over Gulf Coast? Even if we switch leagues, we'll still compete for similar players I'd assume. Who is picking the mountains and a non-existent, drudging offense over the beaches, a tournament run, and a wide open style of play where no dunk attempt is a bad shot? I can't think of an 18 year old who is going to the mountains. What's even bigger than their success, is the way FGCU is doing it, their style of play. Dunk after dunk after dunk, with no fear. Kids love that. What happens to the Florida recruiting pipeline? Does Wagers have the juice to recruit over this?

Dunk City

(03-25-2013 11:27 AM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  Dunk City

Love it! They made Georgetown look soooo bad out there.

(03-25-2013 01:47 AM)Belmont Bruin Fan Wrote:  

(03-24-2013 10:40 PM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  Byrd's system doesn't translate against major schools with superior athletes, while Enfield's does. It's not rocket science.

If Belmont had lost to Murray State in the OVC final, they would be headed straight for the NIT, and Murray would probably be headed for a first-round (technically second round, I guess) exit.

That said, I find it interesting that you refer to "Byrd's system." I find myself to be somewhat perplexed as to what this singular system is. I was a sophomore when Coach Byrd came to Belmont, and our team has been evolving ever since. For instance, in 1987, his "system" featured a grand total of 7 players on the team. He had to enlist blossoming country singer Vince Gill to practice with the team just so they could scrimmage 4-on-4. In 1989, he developed his team into a 1-in, 4-out line up (1 big surrounded by a bunch of shooters/slashers). This worked very well for Joe Behling (our center) to set a school record in single game scoring (52) against Lipscomb. As we transitioned to D-1 in the late 90's-early 2000's, we played dual 6'8" posts (2-in, 3-out) with Adam Mark and Adam Sonn. This allowed for our shooters to establish Belmont as a legitimate 3-point threat. Since that period, until this year, we have enjoyed a strong inside-out game (pick your poison) between our shooting guards (like Andy Wicke, Justin Hare, Jese Snyder, Josh Goodwin [Josh set The Dome's 3-point scoring record vs. ETSU in 2006], etc.) and a long line of bigs (Boomer Hernden, Andrew Preston, Scott Saunders, Mick Hedgepeth, etc.). This year's team's lone big (6'11" Chad Lang) is still developing and rarely played. Coach Byrd was forced to play 6'7" forward Trever Noack in the 5-spot where, truth be known, he often migrated out to the arc to help with 3-point duties, giving Belmont a 5-out line up.

If you were to say that "Byrd's system" doesn't translate into March Madness success, I would be in 150% agreement (except for the "system" categorization). But, to say that it "doesn't translate against major schools with superior athletes," would be viewed as erroneous by Missouri, Wright State, Cincinnati, Alabama, Evansville, Portland State, Miami-OH, Arkansas State, Towson, Marshall, South Dakota State, Ohio University, Stanford University, Mercer, FGCU, and ETSU (all basketball-rich schools we've beaten going back to '04). I wish I could include Duke in that list, but the two times we played the Blue Devils (once in the NCAA's and once in Cameron Indoor Stadium), we lost in the last seconds by 1 lousy point (we're 0-2 against Duke by a total of 2 points). So, Belmont basketball most certainly does translate against "superior athletes." It has for years. The unfortunate fact is that they COMPLETELY lose their edge in the 1 1/2 weeks between conference and NCAA's (as evidenced by a whopping first half 20 points, followed by a 44 point 2nd half this year). In each of the 6 NCAA Tournament trips Belmont has made (including the Duke game), I saw an uncharacteristically poor shooting team that in no way resembles the regular season team.

The only thing I can find on line about "Byrd's system" is a recent CBS Sports write-up that states something about Byrd wanting to sign the right kids...the Belmont kids. From a fan perspective, that's great with me. I'd rather have a group of skinny brainiacs who will go out and beat a #9 Missouri, a Big East Cincinatti, or a Pac-12 Stanford than to have a bunch of athletic felons who let their team down (not picking on ETSU, in this state UT has more trouble makers than anybody...ETSU's recent troubles are an anomaly in the school's 100+ year history and won't be repeated for another 100 years). Here's the CBS article about Rick Byrd if you want to read it: http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...-rick-byrd

About speculating a loss against Murray in the OVC title game and Belmont goes to the NIT, many professional analysts had a different view from that stance by way of Belmont's #21 RPI and #2 OOC SOS. ESPN, CBS, Yahoo Sports, and others all speculated (prior to the OVC tournament) that a Murray win would make the OVC a 2-bid league, and a Belmont win would not.

An article about Byrds system and how it's changed this year.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...ferent-way


I'm not sure why you're under the impression that there isn't a Byrd system. It's a topic I've seen commentary on all year from basketball writers who pay attention.

(03-25-2013 07:08 AM)LetsgoBucs Wrote:  All of the arguing over leagues is really pointless. ASun, OVC, and SoCon are essentially the same because the league reputation won't get you into the post-season. All of the programs that have had success fom these leagues are the outliers who are clearly better than the league. They built good programs, scheduled well out of conference, and then dominated the league. That's how you build success in a one bid league. You aren't going to get any credit for a conference loss. Davidson is not a product of the SoCon, they are superior to the rest of the league and have built their rep beating teams out of conference. Same can be said for Belmont and Murray St in recent years. FGCU isn't a sign of strength of the ASun, they're showing that Enfield has built something special in Ft Myers. Relying on league strength to buoy your success is foolish in these leagues. Yu have to try to build a team that outclasses the league, so people ask what you are doing in that league.

And I do think the ASun, SoCon, and OVC are basically a wash. One bid leagues, tournament champ is going.

In basketball yes but the A-Sun cannot get a school into the FCS playoffs. The OVC and SoCon both can. Big difference.

What bid did Belmont receive vs. FGCU? See its all fine and dandy to compare individual teams if that's what you decide to do? When you are comparing conferences you have to dig deeper. Yes FCGU is still playing, but the odds of advancing as a 15 seed vs. an 11 or 12 (like Davidson with Curry) are infinitely lower. That, along with playing the caliber athletes that prepare you for the NCAA's is really where conference affiliation matters. Belmont never received a seed higher than 13 despite posting a 30 win season and beating teams from a "power conference". That is a DIRECT reflection of the lack of respect the NCAA committee has for the A-Sun.

Over the LONG haul, being in the SOCON and/OVC provides a better opportunity to both make and advance in the NCAA tournament. This is more than a one year issue. Provided they don't back their way in, OVC and SOCON teams consistently earned higher seeds in the NCAA tournament giving them higher odds of advancing.

(03-26-2013 06:20 AM)BucNut22 Wrote:  Over the LONG haul, being in the SOCON and/OVC provides a better opportunity to both make and advance in the NCAA tournament. This is more than a one year issue. Provided they don't back their way in, OVC and SOCON teams consistently earned higher seeds in the NCAA tournament giving them higher odds of advancing.

Agreed. Conferences aren't made of one season. If they were, and life were only about basketball, the SEC would be ranked somewhere down around Conference USA (don't get on me about this. I'm just making a point. I haven't looked at conference power rankings).

Perhaps this is a "one trick pony" at FGSU or, if it's not, you can bet they will move to a different conference. Either way, the ASun is moving to oblivion with fewer teams.

(03-28-2013 12:56 PM)kevster Wrote:  ... Conferences aren't made of one season.

Or two games. But I'm sure an FGCU fan for at least one more game.

(03-26-2013 06:20 AM)BucNut22 Wrote:  What bid did Belmont receive vs. FGCU? See its all fine and dandy to compare individual teams if that's what you decide to do? When you are comparing conferences you have to dig deeper. Yes FCGU is still playing, but the odds of advancing as a 15 seed vs. an 11 or 12 (like Davidson with Curry) are infinitely lower. That, along with playing the caliber athletes that prepare you for the NCAA's is really where conference affiliation matters. Belmont never received a seed higher than 13 despite posting a 30 win season and beating teams from a "power conference". That is a DIRECT reflection of the lack of respect the NCAA committee has for the A-Sun.

Over the LONG haul, being in the SOCON and/OVC provides a better opportunity to both make and advance in the NCAA tournament. This is more than a one year issue. Provided they don't back their way in, OVC and SOCON teams consistently earned higher seeds in the NCAA tournament giving them higher odds of advancing.

I would argue that it's still more about programs than leagues. If Murray St beat Belmont in the championship, I doubt they would have earned a 13 seed, even though they came out of the OVC. If anyone other than Davidson had won the SoCon, they're probably a 15 seed at best. If Davidson ends up leaving the SoCon, it's almost a guarantee that the champ would be a 15-16 seed unless the programs get better.

The OVC gets more respect right now because the champs have won a game in the tournament the last four years. The ASun will get more favorable seeding next year. The key for both the SoCon and OVC in recent history has been their best team winning the league. That's the way to get a good seed from a one bid league.