(03-23-2013 08:37 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(03-23-2013 08:09 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I don't believe UNC will separate themselves from duke. The big ? is would the big 10 or sec take duke to get unc? i'd go with yes on the sec and ? with the big 10. My thought on the sec is if they would take unc and duke combo would they stop at 16 or jump to 18 with NC state and Virg Tech? would unc and duke request NC state to be part of the deal?

SEC fans claim they'd never take FSU, Clemson, GT or UL because they already have a presence in those states, but then take 2 or 3 schools from NC?

If the SEC ends up making four divisions and one of them is a "northern" division, they would be foolish to not take Louisville. I can understand not taking GT, Clemson and to a degree FSU. They are already in those states but they aren't in North Carolina. They want to be. IF they have to take two teams to get there then that is a different situation than taking a school from a state which they already have a school. It is not just about 1+1=2. It is about getting into a southern State they aren't in yet versus doubling up in a State they are already in.

(03-23-2013 08:13 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 11:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 10:55 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 10:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 10:46 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  This article wasn't just about the Florida President.

The above is from the Northwestern President. Hmmm, I wonder whom he is really thinking about with the emboldened quote of his? It is pretty obvious and the fact that he wont say the name has meaning too.

I know I have been pretty big on their potential for landing in the Big Ten and here is a Big Ten President lending weight to that idea.

If you are speaking of Duke in many ways the fit might be better than with the SEC. But I don't see U.N.C. and Duke getting split apart, and I don't see Delany taking two from the same state.

That's fine but you aren't Delany. I am not Delany either but I could see him doing it. That doesn't make either of us right until something actually happens. We have a Big Ten President showing obvious favortism to having Duke in the Big Ten. Delany is commissioner of the Big Ten not President of the Big Ten. He does have to listen to the Presidents on their wishes. Now if the Northwestern President is the only one showing strong favor then yeah, Delany can smile and pat him on his head.

Well, to be direct, if the Big 10 is only going to expand with AAU schools they will eventually have to take private schools who are AAU. From the ACC the options are Virginia, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech, and Duke. If they go after the Big 12 their targets are Kansas, Texas, and Iowa State. Now if you knock Pittsburgh and Iowa State out because the Big 10 already has carriage in those states the exercise becomes academic. Delany ideally wants North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Kansas and Notre Dame to get to 20. They are all AAU (except N.D.) and they would all be contiguous.

The only problem is that Slive would have interestin 3 of those. Therefore the since the two best financed conferences want them deals will have to be cut because the leverage will be with Chapel Hill. That's why it's tough to figure out who winds up where.

That's good JR.
I would think the the deals have already been made, and not between either the B1G or the SEC with the ACC. New long term revenue streams have been introduced to the ACC. There is a good reason that the NBC/Notre Dame contract renewal that TerryD used to remind us of two or three times a week has vanished into oblivion. Slive and Delany's opportunities are in their rear view mirrors

I was going with the flow of thought in the thread here XLance. I still firmly believe that the best thing for College Football and ultimately the SEC is for the ACC to survive. If that happens we wind up with 4 super conferences and a more manageable 14 to 18 team per conference set up. It also keeps the South Southern. And that will be cemented by an SEC / ACC partnership which supplants the one announced with the Big 12. And in terms of the ability to include the greatest number of schools in a new upper tier the geography and cohesion of the conferences work out best that way as well.

(03-22-2013 10:46 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

Quote:Northwestern's president, Morton Schapiro, has a unique perspective as a leader of a private school of more than 8,000 students and a top-25 academic juggernaut.

Schapiro admits he doesn't lead such Big Ten presidential discussions, but he believes the Association of American Universities -- an "association of 62 leading research universities in the United States and Canada" -- is a crucial criterion. Thirteen AAUs are in the Big Ten (Nebraska is the only non-AAU Big Ten team), while Virginia, Georgia Tech, Duke, UNC and Pitt rep the ACC (Maryland excluded).

This gets Schapiro thinking: If the Big Ten added again, would he have a direct counterpart?

"Is there a private AAU we can add?" Schapiro asked. "I'd guess Vanderbilt is very happy in the SEC."

There's an argument the Commodores would have a better shot at a conference title in the Big Ten than the SEC, but by all accounts Vandy appears happy with its league affiliation.

This article wasn't just about the Florida President.

The above is from the Northwestern President. Hmmm, I wonder whom he is really thinking about with the emboldened quote of his? It is pretty obvious and the fact that he wont say the name has meaning too.

I know I have been pretty big on their potential for landing in the Big Ten and here is a Big Ten President lending weight to that idea.

(03-23-2013 08:13 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 11:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 10:55 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 10:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 10:46 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  This article wasn't just about the Florida President.

The above is from the Northwestern President. Hmmm, I wonder whom he is really thinking about with the emboldened quote of his? It is pretty obvious and the fact that he wont say the name has meaning too.

I know I have been pretty big on their potential for landing in the Big Ten and here is a Big Ten President lending weight to that idea.

If you are speaking of Duke in many ways the fit might be better than with the SEC. But I don't see U.N.C. and Duke getting split apart, and I don't see Delany taking two from the same state.

That's fine but you aren't Delany. I am not Delany either but I could see him doing it. That doesn't make either of us right until something actually happens. We have a Big Ten President showing obvious favortism to having Duke in the Big Ten. Delany is commissioner of the Big Ten not President of the Big Ten. He does have to listen to the Presidents on their wishes. Now if the Northwestern President is the only one showing strong favor then yeah, Delany can smile and pat him on his head.

Well, to be direct, if the Big 10 is only going to expand with AAU schools they will eventually have to take private schools who are AAU. From the ACC the options are Virginia, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech, and Duke. If they go after the Big 12 their targets are Kansas, Texas, and Iowa State. Now if you knock Pittsburgh and Iowa State out because the Big 10 already has carriage in those states the exercise becomes academic. Delany ideally wants North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Kansas and Notre Dame to get to 20. They are all AAU (except N.D.) and they would all be contiguous.

The only problem is that Slive would have interestin 3 of those. Therefore the since the two best financed conferences want them deals will have to be cut because the leverage will be with Chapel Hill. That's why it's tough to figure out who winds up where.

That's good JR.
I would think the the deals have already been made, and not between either the B1G or the SEC with the ACC. New long term revenue streams have been introduced to the ACC. There is a good reason that the NBC/Notre Dame contract renewal that TerryD used to remind us of two or three times a week has vanished into oblivion. Slive and Delany's opportunities are in their rear view mirrors

I was going to post about that. The NBC deal expires in 2015. The old contracts were always renewed at least 2-3 years before expiration.

ND and NBC have been talking about a renewal since last June. The great season and TV ratings boost ND received last season sure did help the negotiating position of the Irish.

Jack Swarbrick was talking about the two sides being close to a deal months ago.

Since then......silence.

I don't really think UNC and Duke is taking 2 school's from the same state. I mean does anybody in N carolina really like duke? I thought i read duke takes about 15% of its students from the state of NCarolina, i would guess they take that same amount from New York. Throw in a big chunk from California, Texas, Overseas, etc, that should make the network folks happy with hoops programming. Now taking UNC and NC state doesn't really make sense if your married to the one state model but nobody should be married to that model. That model isn't perfect, nor takes into account the sec or big 10 have zero school's in the state of NC, so to get one, they might need to take 2 or even 3 in the sec's case with unc, nc state, and duke. The one truth in expansion is don't believe anybody or anything until the PC. The big 10 or SEC could come out and say we will only take one school from one state but it wouldn't shock me if a week later they have PC announcing UNC and duke joined.

(03-22-2013 11:06 PM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  No hint. He's stating it would have to be a program that by its inclusion brings far more money to the conference. That excludes Florida State and Clemson (SEC is already in those states and wouldnt sweeten the tv pot that much). It means, by my estimation, the clear market leader or leaders in their respective states (1 or 2). The SEC isnt interested in programs which aren't top notch across the board.

The list of potential candidates for the SEC is quite small: North Carolina, Virginia Tech, Virginia, NC State, Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame (as a regular member with no special deal or excluded sports). West Virginia is only an option with a blockbuster like Texas, Oklahoma or ND. That's it IMO.

As far as candidates who might one day realistically join the SEC: North Carolina or NC State, Virginia Tech or Virginia. Oklahoma could join after the B12 Grant of Rights expires.

The following arent candidates for the SEC ever: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, South Florida, Louisville, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Kansas, Duke, TCU, Oklahoma State, Wake Forest, Miami, Central Florida, Tulane, Memphis, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Boston College, Baylor, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, SMU, Houston, any school that doesnt play football, etc.

The SEC would expand with UVa and UNC but not much else.

Vanderbilt isnt leaving the SEC.

This basically

(03-23-2013 09:35 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 11:06 PM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  No hint. He's stating it would have to be a program that by its inclusion brings far more money to the conference. That excludes Florida State and Clemson (SEC is already in those states and wouldnt sweeten the tv pot that much). It means, by my estimation, the clear market leader or leaders in their respective states (1 or 2). The SEC isnt interested in programs which aren't top notch across the board.

The list of potential candidates for the SEC is quite small: North Carolina, Virginia Tech, Virginia, NC State, Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame (as a regular member with no special deal or excluded sports). West Virginia is only an option with a blockbuster like Texas, Oklahoma or ND. That's it IMO.

As far as candidates who might one day realistically join the SEC: North Carolina or NC State, Virginia Tech or Virginia. Oklahoma could join after the B12 Grant of Rights expires.

The following arent candidates for the SEC ever: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, South Florida, Louisville, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Kansas, Duke, TCU, Oklahoma State, Wake Forest, Miami, Central Florida, Tulane, Memphis, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Boston College, Baylor, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, SMU, Houston, any school that doesnt play football, etc.

The SEC would expand with UVa and UNC but not much else.

Vanderbilt isnt leaving the SEC.

This basically

lets not forget VA TECH and NC ST.The SEC only has 2 AAU schools UFLA and Vanderbilt.

(03-23-2013 10:40 AM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(03-23-2013 09:35 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 11:06 PM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  No hint. He's stating it would have to be a program that by its inclusion brings far more money to the conference. That excludes Florida State and Clemson (SEC is already in those states and wouldnt sweeten the tv pot that much). It means, by my estimation, the clear market leader or leaders in their respective states (1 or 2). The SEC isnt interested in programs which aren't top notch across the board.

The list of potential candidates for the SEC is quite small: North Carolina, Virginia Tech, Virginia, NC State, Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame (as a regular member with no special deal or excluded sports). West Virginia is only an option with a blockbuster like Texas, Oklahoma or ND. That's it IMO.

As far as candidates who might one day realistically join the SEC: North Carolina or NC State, Virginia Tech or Virginia. Oklahoma could join after the B12 Grant of Rights expires.

The following arent candidates for the SEC ever: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, South Florida, Louisville, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Kansas, Duke, TCU, Oklahoma State, Wake Forest, Miami, Central Florida, Tulane, Memphis, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Boston College, Baylor, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, SMU, Houston, any school that doesnt play football, etc.

The SEC would expand with UVa and UNC but not much else.

Vanderbilt isnt leaving the SEC.

This basically

lets not forget VA TECH and NC ST.The SEC only has 2 AAU schools UFLA and Vanderbilt.

We have 4 now: Florida, Missouri, Texas A&M, and Vanderbilt.

This guy was good friends with the Missouri prez and played an inside roll in getting us in the SEC. He is pretty influential in the SEC.

Sounds to me like the SEC wasn't necessarily thinking expansion before Texas A&M called. And then they let Missouri come along for the ride. So unless a "Jewel" (UNC,Oklahoma) (NC State, Va Tech) comes calling the SEC ain't lookin to expand. That would be two new states for the SEC Network in either scenario, but it's those schools that will have to call the SEC offices, not the other way around.

(03-23-2013 02:10 PM)ECUPirated Wrote:  Sounds to me like the SEC wasn't necessarily thinking expansion before Texas A&M called. And then they let Missouri come along for the ride. So unless a "Jewel" (UNC,Oklahoma) (NC State, Va Tech) comes calling the SEC ain't lookin to expand. That would be two new states for the SEC Network in either scenario, but it's those schools that will have to call the SEC offices, not the other way around.

Yes, and no. Yes the SEC must be called first (for an application for membership). No, the SEC carries on in depth talks that they sometimes initiate under the aegis of due diligence. In reality the game works like this. The SEC and an entity engage in extremely informative discussions about what the value to both would be in the event of a union, what the expected expenses would be in a move, how much of those expenses could be offset by the SEC, or covered by the SEC in the form of a loan, and the projections for both parties is covered in a study the size of an average novel that encompasses all angles imaginable and a few contingencies. Then if the entity wants to join the due diligence ends and they call, or write, formally for an application for membership. They know in advance they will be accepted, but officially their submission of the application begins the process. Since they initiate the official application tortuous interference is avoided. If the SEC is not interested when a party calls them they never get to the depth level of discussions that require a study.

The former procedure is effective because determining one's value on the market is considered proper due diligence for every institution.

IMO:

"Jewels" the SEC would not say no to if they came to the SEC and asked for membership

-UNC (unlikely, don't like the SEC, would prefer B1G if have to move)
-UVA (unlikely don't like the SEC, would prefer B1G if have to move)
-VT
-Notre Dame (not gonna happen, no interest in SEC)
-Texas (not gonna happen, wont be allowed to leave 3 little dependent brothers high and dry)

Schools that would be acceptable as tag-a-longs to a "jewel"

-NC State
-Duke
-Florida State
-Clemson
-Oklahoma
-West Virginia

The use of Ace Jewel was probably a mistake of speech. Be that as it may, the use of Jewel for our discussion is much more fluid that many make it out to be.

If the SEC expands to 16 the Jewels would be:
North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and the ubiquitous Notre Dame.

Teams that could tag along would be: Duke, Pittsburgh, and Florida State.

Move the bar to 18 teams and the dynamics change. Now you may consider Jewels to be any of the previous mentioned jewels and Duke, Pittsburgh, and Florida State with the addition of West Virginia.

At 20 the field expands. At 20 the jewels are the same but the tag-a-longs expand. A Dallas Ft. Worth team could come into play for a market. Cincinnati might get a look for new markets. Clemson could come into play.

So if you are going to prioritize potential SEC targets you must set parameters. Are we talking 16, 18 or 20 team scenarios.

(03-23-2013 12:17 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 11:18 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 11:13 PM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 10:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-22-2013 10:46 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  This article wasn't just about the Florida President.

The above is from the Northwestern President. Hmmm, I wonder whom he is really thinking about with the emboldened quote of his? It is pretty obvious and the fact that he wont say the name has meaning too.

I know I have been pretty big on their potential for landing in the Big Ten and here is a Big Ten President lending weight to that idea.

If you are speaking of Duke in many ways the fit might be better than with the SEC. But I don't see U.N.C. and Duke getting split apart, and I don't see Delany taking two from the same state.

Duke isnt SEC material. And never will be. They're private and elitist. SEC programs appeal to a wide audience that Duke can't and doesn't attract. If the ACC was being destabilized, I think UNC would leave Duke behind. But thats just my opinion.

I hope you are right about that. I can't stand the Blue Devils. An SEC moving to 16 with U.N.C. & Virginia Tech would be ideal.

That would be odd from UNC's perspective. Their top hoops rival is Duke. Their top football rival is UVa.

Also, for a conference network, the SEC already has plenty of top-tier football content but needs more hoops content to make an SEC network worth watching after SEC football is over for the year. From that perspective bringing in both UNC and Duke looks pretty good. Even though I don't like Duke any more than you do.

Who told you that? That is totally wrong. UNC-CH's top football rivals are NCSU and Duke. UVA is just a conference game to them.

I think the most likely outcome is that no other schools leave the ACC.

But if something strange were to happen and schools were to start abandoning ship wouldn't it make more sense for UNC-CH and UVA to go to the Big 10 and NCSU and VT go to the SEC?

I know Duke has the national brand right now, based on basketball, but Coach K will be retiring in a few years and I'm not convinced they can sustain their position in the CBB world when he is gone. Duke had some good years before he arrived but nothing approaching the level they have been at over the last 30 years. When he is replaced it will be difficult for them to stay at that level of popularity. A few down years and the top recruits will stop coming, product sales will fall off, casual out of state fans will find a new favorite, and they will back where they were in the 1970s. Football will never be much better than a little over 500 in good years and below more often than not. If the Big 10 takes them it might be something they regret.

Kansas some "jewel" for the SEC to land? LMFAO

Texas shouldn't be included because all you SEC people say adding a school that's already located within the SEC footprint adds ZERO value.

No conference will ever say no to Texas, unless Texas behaves like an excessive primadonna

(03-23-2013 07:16 PM)AirRaid Wrote:  No conference will ever say no to Texas, unless Texas behaves like an excessive primadonna

Where did this word, "unless" come from?

(03-23-2013 06:17 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Kansas some "jewel" for the SEC to land? LMFAO

Texas shouldn't be included because all you SEC people say adding a school that's already located within the SEC footprint adds ZERO value.

Kansas is a new state. Kansas has AAU standing. It is the flagship university of its state. It is the rival of SEC member Missouri. It has an extremely profitable athletic program for a school with woeful football. And its strength, hoops, are an asset to a conference seeking to build its basketball credentials. With its aforementioned resume it would be a better addition overall than Duke. But combined with North Carolina and/or Duke it would be quite a catch for a conference that doesn't necessarily need football strength.

(03-23-2013 07:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-23-2013 07:16 PM)AirRaid Wrote:  No conference will ever say no to Texas, unless Texas behaves like an excessive primadonna

Where did this word, "unless" come from?

FIFY

unless Texas behaves like an excessive primadonna

No conference(s) will ever say no to Texas,

ECU confirmed