(06-01-2016 06:22 AM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 05:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 02:39 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  . To imagine that we can keep a truly successful coach (whether head or assistant) for more than a few years (without some SERIOUSLY unique situation) is just not in touch with reality.

My concern is not with keeping them, it is with finding them in the first place.

Quote:The bottom line is that if you or your staff at Rice isn't at risk to be hired away, then we probably shouldn't be keeping you either.

We have two former assistants now HCs. Nobody was heartbroken when they left. Pretty much a good riddance party. Maybe it is OUR assessment of the coaches that is off. But, IAC, we have had some hired away.

I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I remember all of the griping and complaining about Herman, and people "wishing" he would get hired away.

I think many of us realize there is one common thread. When you have guys like Herman on one end and Dries Bach and Zaunbrecher on the other in terms of achievement, yet all managed to put up the same dull uninspired, undisciplined team at Rice. It's pretty clear that the assistants weren't the root of the problem.

(06-01-2016 06:48 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 06:22 AM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 05:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 02:39 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  . To imagine that we can keep a truly successful coach (whether head or assistant) for more than a few years (without some SERIOUSLY unique situation) is just not in touch with reality.

My concern is not with keeping them, it is with finding them in the first place.

Quote:The bottom line is that if you or your staff at Rice isn't at risk to be hired away, then we probably shouldn't be keeping you either.

We have two former assistants now HCs. Nobody was heartbroken when they left. Pretty much a good riddance party. Maybe it is OUR assessment of the coaches that is off. But, IAC, we have had some hired away.

I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I remember all of the griping and complaining about Herman, and people "wishing" he would get hired away.

I think many of us realize there is one common thread. When you have guys like Herman on one end and Dries Bach and Zaunbrecher on the other in terms of achievement, yet all managed to put up the same dull uninspired, undisciplined team at Rice. It's pretty clear that the assistants weren't the root of the problem.

Herman in '08 did anything but put up a dull, uninspired team. I mean, unless you call one of the top offenses in the country dull and uninspired.

DB has been proven to be too slow to pull the trigger and prone to making questionable hiring decisions, but I still don't get the argument that is, in essence, him ruling the offensive/defensive philosophy with an iron fist. I think his choice of assistance and preparation, rather than overall offensive/defensive philosophy that are most flawed.

(06-01-2016 04:34 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 10:42 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 10:24 AM)Middle Ages Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 10:06 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  In any case, I think this will be Bailiff's last year, and I cannot be any less relieved than all of yall. I have less faith in the "churn method, though.

Well, not if you churn 'the Rice way'. There has to be more involved than just picking a coach. You guys are aiming your fire too low. There has to be a true commitment to the program (primarily money) before any coach can do significantly better than DB. I get all of the complaints about him and I do think there are some areas someone different would outperform him, but not significantly. Not to the level most of us (everyone not named Afflicted) want or expect. For the amount of money and overall commitment/importance the university and BOT are placing in the program (everything- facilities, salaries, recruiting budget, marketing, etc.) David is doing about as well overall as anyone could. Someone said his record was 50-63 or similar. My opinion is that a better coach/staff might be 5-10 games better than that at best- with maybe a couple of better bowls an another championship appearance or win. Is that enough? We would still be significantly second fiddle to UH in Houston, have no attendance to speak of, be invisible in CFB conversations nationally, and no prospects above the glorified FCS conference we are in. And that coach would then be hired away by a P5 and we'd need another miracle worker to sustain it. How about building a PROGRAM that good coaches can thrive in? Because David is a good coach. A baby step in commitment would be giving him enough money to hire better assistants, and retain the good ones getting hired away (see UH staff).

I note that the interim Baylor coach has a record similar to Bailiff's. Sub .500 in 13 seasons. One really good year.

Apples and oranges. Their good year had them beat multiple ranked and name teams. Our C-USA winning 2013 campaign closed out with us at #64 in Sagarin.

So yes, one season but their ceiling was so so so so so so much higher. When Bailiff has a season where the 3 losses are against #12, #19 and #6 in the country, then we can draw a parallel.

No need to get all upset about it. I said similar, not parallel, and certainly not identical. of course a mediocre P5 playing their P5 schedule is going to have both their wins and losses against a tougher schedule than a G5. Of course their ceiling is higher - they are a P5.

Just thinking, if this is the type of guy that Baylor turns to for the interim, may it adds just a smidgen to the idea that maybe they will look at Bailiff. If bailiff cane come up with a good season, maybe another smidgen.

(06-01-2016 06:22 AM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 05:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 02:39 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  . To imagine that we can keep a truly successful coach (whether head or assistant) for more than a few years (without some SERIOUSLY unique situation) is just not in touch with reality.

My concern is not with keeping them, it is with finding them in the first place.

Quote:The bottom line is that if you or your staff at Rice isn't at risk to be hired away, then we probably shouldn't be keeping you either.

We have two former assistants now HCs. Nobody was heartbroken when they left. Pretty much a good riddance party. Maybe it is OUR assessment of the coaches that is off. But, IAC, we have had some hired away.

I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I remember all of the griping and complaining about Herman, and people "wishing" he would get hired away.

In my mind, people here were saying "Mensa" in the same tone that Seinfeld used saying "Newman".

(06-01-2016 06:22 AM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 05:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  We have two former assistants now HCs. Nobody was heartbroken when they left. Pretty much a good riddance party. Maybe it is OUR assessment of the coaches that is off. But, IAC, we have had some hired away.

I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I remember all of the griping and complaining about Herman, and people "wishing" he would get hired away.

One can hope that's because more posters have started to ignore him and his pathetic bait-and-victim routine.

The archives show that Herman's departure was met with far less than relief or joy.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-338254.html

(06-01-2016 09:23 AM)At Ease Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 06:22 AM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 05:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  We have two former assistants now HCs. Nobody was heartbroken when they left. Pretty much a good riddance party. Maybe it is OUR assessment of the coaches that is off. But, IAC, we have had some hired away.

I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I remember all of the griping and complaining about Herman, and people "wishing" he would get hired away.

One can hope that's because more posters have started to ignore him and his pathetic bait-and-victim routine.

The archives show that Herman's departure was met with far less than relief or joy.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-338254.html

This is at least the second time you've posted this link.

Just proves that even pretty good evidence won't end all talking points.

(06-01-2016 09:34 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 09:23 AM)At Ease Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 06:22 AM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 05:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  We have two former assistants now HCs. Nobody was heartbroken when they left. Pretty much a good riddance party. Maybe it is OUR assessment of the coaches that is off. But, IAC, we have had some hired away.

I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I remember all of the griping and complaining about Herman, and people "wishing" he would get hired away.

One can hope that's because more posters have started to ignore him and his pathetic bait-and-victim routine.

The archives show that Herman's departure was met with far less than relief or joy.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-338254.html

This is at least the second time you've posted this link.

Just proves that even pretty good evidence won't end all talking points.

Maybe I am remembering 2007 more than 2008...maybe you could find some of the threads from the midst or end of the 3-9 season to compare and contrast with this one after the end of the of the 10-3 season. TIA,

But a scan seems to show some common statements:

Iowa State? Iowa Freaking STATE? We seem more offended by who hired him than by his hiring.

Money? Seems to still be a problem.

CDC.

The point remains, we have had assistants hired away.

(06-01-2016 09:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 09:34 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 09:23 AM)At Ease Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 06:22 AM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 05:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  We have two former assistants now HCs. Nobody was heartbroken when they left. Pretty much a good riddance party. Maybe it is OUR assessment of the coaches that is off. But, IAC, we have had some hired away.

I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I remember all of the griping and complaining about Herman, and people "wishing" he would get hired away.

One can hope that's because more posters have started to ignore him and his pathetic bait-and-victim routine.

The archives show that Herman's departure was met with far less than relief or joy.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-338254.html

This is at least the second time you've posted this link.

Just proves that even pretty good evidence won't end all talking points.

Maybe I am remembering 2007 more than 2008...maybe you could find some of the threads from the midst of the 3-9 season to compare and contrast from this one after the end of the of the 10-3 season. TIA,

But a scan seems to show some common statements:

Iowa State? Iowa Freaking STATE? We seem more offended by who hired him than by his hiring.

Money? Seems to still be a problem.

CDC.

The point remains, we have had assistants hired away.

And we will always have assistants hired away - it is the nature of the beast for a school like Rice.

I'm sure there was griping during the two seasons Herman was here about the play calls and offense - we have a ton of arm chair "QBs" who think highly of their own opinions about how to run the program and how good/bad someone is doing at that job, without having all of the information to develop a true, informed opinion. But in all fairness, going through that thread, it seemed like that most people were sadder, rather than happier, to see him go.

(06-01-2016 09:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The point remains, we have had assistants hired away.

What point? Your nit picking point that yes we have had a number greater than zero assistants hired away?

the real point still stands, our assistants BY AND LARGE are not highly desired commodities.

(06-01-2016 09:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 09:34 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 09:23 AM)At Ease Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 06:22 AM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 05:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  We have two former assistants now HCs. Nobody was heartbroken when they left. Pretty much a good riddance party. Maybe it is OUR assessment of the coaches that is off. But, IAC, we have had some hired away.

I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I remember all of the griping and complaining about Herman, and people "wishing" he would get hired away.

One can hope that's because more posters have started to ignore him and his pathetic bait-and-victim routine.

The archives show that Herman's departure was met with far less than relief or joy.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-338254.html

This is at least the second time you've posted this link.

Just proves that even pretty good evidence won't end all talking points.

Maybe I am remembering 2007 more than 2008...maybe you could find some of the threads from the midst or end of the 3-9 season to compare and contrast with this one after the end of the of the 10-3 season. TIA,

But a scan seems to show some common statements:

Iowa State? Iowa Freaking STATE? We seem more offended by who hired him than by his hiring.

Money? Seems to still be a problem.

CDC.

The point remains, we have had assistants hired away.

And with the salaries of assistants being so low at Rice, it turns into a crap shoot. You're either hiring very young guys who are just starting out in their careers, but who you hope have potential, or your hiring older guys that are in the twilight of their careers and who have a lot less energy. In that environment, you have some successful ones who get hired away, but also some that fall flat on their faces. Bailiff doesn't have the luxury of hiring many proven coaching commodities. There's a lot of intuition and praying that goes on when making his decisions.

(06-01-2016 10:18 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 09:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The point remains, we have had assistants hired away.

What point? Your nit picking point that yes we have had a number greater than zero assistants hired away?

the real point still stands, our assistants BY AND LARGE are not highly desired commodities.

Please go back to post 154 and see the statement I was responding to.

I don't know the definition of BY AND LARGE, but we have had lots of coaches and staffer be hired away. I just concentrated on the two that became Head Coaches.

If the point is that nobody wants anybody associated with bailiff, I think that has been refuted. And nobody, certainly not me, has intimated that Rice is the first place people go to shop for up and coming talent.

What's the problem? why the anger? I'm not trying to defend Bailiff in any way, just pointing out facts.

(05-31-2016 05:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 02:39 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  . To imagine that we can keep a truly successful coach (whether head or assistant) for more than a few years (without some SERIOUSLY unique situation) is just not in touch with reality.

My concern is not with keeping them, it is with finding them in the first place.

WHy would we be 'de facto' any worse than anywhere else at it? UH has found 4-5 in a row. Why can't we? yes, they've had to pay up each time, but they've also raised the expectations each time.

Quote:

Quote:The bottom line is that if you or your staff at Rice isn't at risk to be hired away, then we probably shouldn't be keeping you either.

We have two former assistants now HCs. Nobody was heartbroken when they left. Pretty much a good riddance party. Maybe it is OUR assessment of the coaches that is off. But, IAC, we have had some hired away.

SOME is the key word there...

and addressing posts by others....

Hermann was MEDIOCRE at best in 2007... something MANY people are forgetting. He 'figured it out' in 2008 and did very well AND WAS HIRED AWAY.

Complaining about him in 2007 was warranted, as was applauding him for doing MUCH better in 2008. Simple point... In 2007 we averages 293 yards passing and 110 yards rushing. 404 YPG. In 2008 we averaged 327 yards passing and 144 yard rushing for 470 yards per game.

Increasing your offense by 66 YPG is noteworthy... but more importantly it took us from 3-9 to 10-3.

We need to stop acting as if it was 'unreasonable' to be disappointed in the 2007 3-9 performance. PERHAPS placing it on the offense was unwarranted (as the offense was also better in 2007 than 2006) but Hermann was clearly able to get FAR MORE out of the team in 2008 than in 2007.

I don't think it unfair to argue that between 2008 and 2015, he learned a little something from Iowa State and then Ohio State. Let's just put it this way... we were able to afford him in 2007. We couldn't keep him in 2009. We CERTAINLY couldn't afford him in 2012 or 2016.

Going back to the 'some'... This is not manufacturing. This is a business built on the skills of individuals... and those that are viewed by their peers as being successful and/or having even greater potential get hired away based on that success and/or potential. If you have had coaches for more than a few years and they aren't being hired away, then they are either not being viewed by their peers as being successful or they are viewed as having 'maxed out' their potential... (AND their earning potential)...

If a coach isn't a threat to leave, it means that WHATEVER we are paying him (and we aren't anywhere near the top of coaching salaries, meaning there are LOTS of positions opening every year)... nobody thinks he is worth much more than that... either in the same position (at a program with more resources) or in a 'higher' position.

Yes, we've lost a few... My point is that if you're not losing coaches rather regularly, or at least having to sweeten offers to keep them, then MAYBE you should be considering losing them by choice. OF COURSE there are exceptions and special circumstances... but a place like Rice in football in this day and age shouldn't be a career for many coaches.

(06-01-2016 09:58 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 09:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 09:34 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 09:23 AM)At Ease Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 06:22 AM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I remember all of the griping and complaining about Herman, and people "wishing" he would get hired away.

One can hope that's because more posters have started to ignore him and his pathetic bait-and-victim routine.

The archives show that Herman's departure was met with far less than relief or joy.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-338254.html

This is at least the second time you've posted this link.

Just proves that even pretty good evidence won't end all talking points.

Maybe I am remembering 2007 more than 2008...maybe you could find some of the threads from the midst of the 3-9 season to compare and contrast from this one after the end of the of the 10-3 season. TIA,

But a scan seems to show some common statements:

Iowa State? Iowa Freaking STATE? We seem more offended by who hired him than by his hiring.

Money? Seems to still be a problem.

CDC.

The point remains, we have had assistants hired away.

And we will always have assistants hired away - it is the nature of the beast for a school like Rice.

I'm sure there was griping during the two seasons Herman was here about the play calls and offense - we have a ton of arm chair "QBs" who think highly of their own opinions about how to run the program and how good/bad someone is doing at that job, without having all of the information to develop a true, informed opinion. But in all fairness, going through that thread, it seemed like that most people were sadder, rather than happier, to see him go.

True. Remember, we had just finished the best season at rice since 1949, and won a Bowl - our first win since 1960(?). I was part of the euphoria, and I imagine nobody wanted to see the crew that did that dismantled.

I also remember 2007, when we stared off with Nichols State and a rout by Baylor. I was at both those games, and ready to chip in on a moving van. I don't have specific memories, but I imagine all the staff was getting criticized mercilessly. Was Mensa our OC then? I don't remember, but if so, I think he caught his share of criticism. don't remember any posts like "they are all incompetent idiots except this one guy".

I just remember a lot of snide comments about "mensa". Was he the guy who was OC for McGuffie up the middle?

(06-01-2016 11:22 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 05:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 02:39 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  . To imagine that we can keep a truly successful coach (whether head or assistant) for more than a few years (without some SERIOUSLY unique situation) is just not in touch with reality.

My concern is not with keeping them, it is with finding them in the first place.

WHy would we be 'de facto' any worse than anywhere else at it? UH has found 4-5 in a row. Why can't we? yes, they've had to pay up each time, but they've also raised the expectations each time.

Quote:

Quote:The bottom line is that if you or your staff at Rice isn't at risk to be hired away, then we probably shouldn't be keeping you either.

We have two former assistants now HCs. Nobody was heartbroken when they left. Pretty much a good riddance party. Maybe it is OUR assessment of the coaches that is off. But, IAC, we have had some hired away.

SOME is the key word there...

and addressing posts by others....

Hermann was MEDIOCRE at best in 2007... something MANY people are forgetting. He 'figured it out' in 2008 and did very well AND WAS HIRED AWAY.

Complaining about him in 2007 was warranted, as was applauding him for doing MUCH better in 2008. Simple point... In 2007 we averages 293 yards passing and 110 yards rushing. 404 YPG. In 2008 we averaged 327 yards passing and 144 yard rushing for 470 yards per game.

Increasing your offense by 66 YPG is noteworthy... but more importantly it took us from 3-9 to 10-3.

We need to stop acting as if it was 'unreasonable' to be disappointed in the 2007 3-9 performance. PERHAPS placing it on the offense was unwarranted (as the offense was also better in 2007 than 2006) but Hermann was clearly able to get FAR MORE out of the team in 2008 than in 2007.

I don't think it unfair to argue that between 2008 and 2015, he learned a little something from Iowa State and then Ohio State. Let's just put it this way... we were able to afford him in 2007. We couldn't keep him in 2009. We CERTAINLY couldn't afford him in 2012 or 2016.

Going back to the 'some'... This is not manufacturing. This is a business built on the skills of individuals... and those that are viewed by their peers as being successful and/or having even greater potential get hired away based on that success and/or potential. If you have had coaches for more than a few years and they aren't being hired away, then they are either not being viewed by their peers as being successful or they are viewed as having 'maxed out' their potential... (AND their earning potential)...

If a coach isn't a threat to leave, it means that WHATEVER we are paying him (and we aren't anywhere near the top of coaching salaries, meaning there are LOTS of positions opening every year)... nobody thinks he is worth much more than that... either in the same position (at a program with more resources) or in a 'higher' position.

Yes, we've lost a few... My point is that if you're not losing coaches rather regularly, or at least having to sweeten offers to keep them, then MAYBE you should be considering losing them by choice. OF COURSE there are exceptions and special circumstances... but a place like Rice in football in this day and age shouldn't be a career for many coaches.

\As usual, Ham, you make a lot of sense.

(06-01-2016 11:22 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 05:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-31-2016 02:39 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  . To imagine that we can keep a truly successful coach (whether head or assistant) for more than a few years (without some SERIOUSLY unique situation) is just not in touch with reality.

My concern is not with keeping them, it is with finding them in the first place.

WHy would we be 'de facto' any worse than anywhere else at it? UH has found 4-5 in a row. Why can't we? yes, they've had to pay up each time, but they've also raised the expectations each time.

Quote:

Quote:The bottom line is that if you or your staff at Rice isn't at risk to be hired away, then we probably shouldn't be keeping you either.

We have two former assistants now HCs. Nobody was heartbroken when they left. Pretty much a good riddance party. Maybe it is OUR assessment of the coaches that is off. But, IAC, we have had some hired away.

SOME is the key word there...

and addressing posts by others....

Hermann was MEDIOCRE at best in 2007... something MANY people are forgetting. He 'figured it out' in 2008 and did very well AND WAS HIRED AWAY.

Complaining about him in 2007 was warranted, as was applauding him for doing MUCH better in 2008. Simple point... In 2007 we averages 293 yards passing and 110 yards rushing. 404 YPG. In 2008 we averaged 327 yards passing and 144 yard rushing for 470 yards per game.

Increasing your offense by 66 YPG is noteworthy... but more importantly it took us from 3-9 to 10-3.

We need to stop acting as if it was 'unreasonable' to be disappointed in the 2007 3-9 performance. PERHAPS placing it on the offense was unwarranted (as the offense was also better in 2007 than 2006) but Hermann was clearly able to get FAR MORE out of the team in 2008 than in 2007.

I don't think it unfair to argue that between 2008 and 2015, he learned a little something from Iowa State and then Ohio State. Let's just put it this way... we were able to afford him in 2007. We couldn't keep him in 2009. We CERTAINLY couldn't afford him in 2012 or 2016.

Going back to the 'some'... This is not manufacturing. This is a business built on the skills of individuals... and those that are viewed by their peers as being successful and/or having even greater potential get hired away based on that success and/or potential. If you have had coaches for more than a few years and they aren't being hired away, then they are either not being viewed by their peers as being successful or they are viewed as having 'maxed out' their potential... (AND their earning potential)...

If a coach isn't a threat to leave, it means that WHATEVER we are paying him (and we aren't anywhere near the top of coaching salaries, meaning there are LOTS of positions opening every year)... nobody thinks he is worth much more than that... either in the same position (at a program with more resources) or in a 'higher' position.

Yes, we've lost a few... My point is that if you're not losing coaches rather regularly, or at least having to sweeten offers to keep them, then MAYBE you should be considering losing them by choice. OF COURSE there are exceptions and special circumstances... but a place like Rice in football in this day and age shouldn't be a career for many coaches.

Small item to bring up, which I've pointed it out before, a big difference between the 2007 offense as compared to that unit in 2006 and 2008 was turnovers on offense. Chase's TD-Int was 21-5 in '06, 29-16 in '07, and 44-7 in '08.

Obviously Herman learned on the job at Rice and then definitely much more so afterwards, but he still did a darn good job creating big offensive numbers, our QB just turned the ball over a lot more.

That's just a small thing you discussed, I very much agree with your opinion about assistant coaches and that, in essence, we need to have them leave on a regular basis, because if they aren't, something is likely wrong.

(06-01-2016 09:23 AM)At Ease Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 06:22 AM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I remember all of the griping and complaining about Herman, and people "wishing" he would get hired away.

The archives show that Herman's departure was met with far less than relief or joy.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-338254.html

The most interesting to me about this archived thread was that the 2nd post was made by someone who created an account that day, but never logged into their account again after the following day. They must have been super-interested in Herman's move to Iowa State!

Also interesting to me was Talon Owl's freakout. Apparently Talon has an eye for coaches, who on the current staff (if anyone) would cause you such heartache if they left?

(06-01-2016 11:44 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 09:23 AM)At Ease Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 06:22 AM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  I'm surprised nobody has responded to this. I remember all of the griping and complaining about Herman, and people "wishing" he would get hired away.

The archives show that Herman's departure was met with far less than relief or joy.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-338254.html

The most interesting to me about this archived thread was that the 2nd post was made by someone who created an account that day, but never logged into their account again after the following day. They must have been super-interested in Herman's move to Iowa State!

Also interesting to me was Talon Owl's freakout. Apparently Talon has an eye for coaches, who on the current staff (if anyone) would cause you such heartache if they left?

I was heartbroken when Driesbach was no longer with Rice.

I remember getting on an airplane after the Texas Bowl and speaking with Mensa's mom who was also on the flight.

I ended the brief conversation with "I sure hope he sticks around."

She laughed nervously.

I knew he was gone.