If Army won't come, I think the order should go UMass all sports, then VCU (Oly), ODU (Oly with FBS invitation upon 3/4 majority vote, taken annually by league presidents / ADs), UNCC (same deal as ODU)

(03-17-2013 03:52 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 03:26 PM)Bull Wrote:  This is not unique to Tulsa. Most of our schools suffer a bit with 'big brothers' lurking about. Houston and SMU deal with the shadow of UT and A&M... USF and UCF deal with UF and FSU... ditto Cinci to some degree lives with OSU nearby... and the list goes on.

The fact that Tulsa has OU and OSU nearby is understandable, and not an exclusion criteria.

Except Tulsa is really small. At least most of the other schools have lots of alums/fans.

That's my big question mark on Tulsa. Its such a small school that even when winning doesn't draw big numbers. Not sure how much more growth you can get there.

(03-17-2013 03:26 PM)Bull Wrote:  This is not unique to Tulsa. Most of our schools suffer a bit with 'big brothers' lurking about. Houston and SMU deal with the shadow of UT and A&M... USF and UCF deal with UF and FSU... ditto Cinci to some degree lives with OSU nearby... and the list goes on.

The fact that Tulsa has OU and OSU nearby is understandable, and not an exclusion criteria.

The state of Oklahoma is much smaller, and has less recruits than all of the other states you mentioned. And OU and OSU are so big of programs, that in a state that size, only competing with a private institution for attention and media $, between those two there is no air to breathe in the room for Tulsa. They may have on-field success, but there aren't enough alumni, or enough people in the state, to consistently help them fill a 30k seat stadium. If a 10-win season + hosting a conference title game can't bring in 20k followers, then what can?

(03-17-2013 03:59 PM)Texas2Step Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 03:26 PM)Bull Wrote:  This is not unique to Tulsa. Most of our schools suffer a bit with 'big brothers' lurking about. Houston and SMU deal with the shadow of UT and A&M... USF and UCF deal with UF and FSU... ditto Cinci to some degree lives with OSU nearby... and the list goes on.

The fact that Tulsa has OU and OSU nearby is understandable, and not an exclusion criteria.

The state of Oklahoma is much smaller, and has less recruits than all of the other states you mentioned. And OU and OSU are so big of programs, that in a state that size, only competing with a private institution for attention and media $, between those two there is no air to breathe in the room for Tulsa. They may have on-field success, but there aren't enough alumni, or enough people in the state, to consistently help them fill a 30k seat stadium. If a 10-win season + hosting a conference title game can't bring in 20k followers, then what can?

Correct and that's my concern.
Compare
Tulsa football-CUSA champ draws 20,418
ODU football 1AA draws 20,037

Tulsa basketball-CUSA 17-15. Draws 4,580
ODU basketball- Colonial 5-25 draws 6,608

If we must get to 12, these combinations are fine:

Navy - Tulsa
Navy - UMass
Tulsa - UMass
Army - Navy

None of them is the answer to our prayers, and none of them will doom our conference.

There is no need to have a conference championship game

Stick with navy and keep it at 11 teams Tulsa is a small private school Southern Miss would bring a lot more the conference

Problem is... there is no prefect candidate to add. Tulsa is small. You guys are right, OK is a lightly populated state. But UMASS does not draw either, has an ancient stadium with no plans to expand, OR will continue to play at a pro stadium an hour away (where noone goes either...). ODU is in a great market but is just coming off FCS, and we'd REALLY be ridiculed if we took them today.

Everyone has some warts. But since we're only talking about one single addition, we can handle a less-than-perfect candidate. Question is, what kind of negative are we willing to absorb?

I'm not hear to argue for Tulsa, I've never even been there... but after the Tulane meltdown, at least they are a quality program today.

We take ODU or Umass for market... well Tulane is in downtown New Orleans, best market of all, and building a brand new OCS to boot... and everyone STILL melted down over Tulane.

Tulsa helps in one other important aspect: they cement in SMU and Houston as a really nice central timezone set of relatively close schools. I'd prefer not to hear any more nonsense about Houston or SMU flirting with the MWC. We don't need that.

Boise is in a pretty tiny market in a pretty lightly populated state... so I'm reluctant to use that as the yardstick to hold against Tulsa.

sorry trolls

We're coming and we will dominate this league just like we dominated CUSA.

(03-17-2013 04:14 PM)Stookey57 Wrote:  Stick with navy and keep it at 11 teams Tulsa is a small private school Southern Miss would bring a lot more the conference

I do think the long term upside to S Miss is higher. That said, I think there may be some academic and private school snobbery that may be at work here. Bottom line--Tulsa is not a disaster by any means and would be a nice addition. While they have lttle chance of being much more than what they are today--what they are today is one of the top mid-major overall sports programs in the country. They are a properly funded with a strong academic reputation located in nice growing city of around a million people with no professional sports competition. You could do much worse.

(03-17-2013 04:11 PM)Stookey57 Wrote:  There is no need to have a conference championship game

If you never want to be ranked above the MWC champ. Then sure. No need for a championship game.

Have you guys not noticed that the MWC got more money, is a better hoops conference and has the BCS buster darling. You guys are clowns if you think a 9-2 A12 will ever be ranked above a 10-2 Boise team.

Teams that will never ever ever win a A-12 football championship or sniff an access bowl.

UCONN
Temple
Memphis


Those seem to be most of the fans crying about Tulsa.

(03-17-2013 04:28 PM)panicstricken Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 04:11 PM)Stookey57 Wrote:  There is no need to have a conference championship game

If you never want to be ranked above the MWC champ. Then sure. No need for a championship game.

Have you guys not noticed that the MWC got more money, is a better hoops conference and has the BCS buster darling. You guys are clowns if you think a 9-2 A12 will ever be ranked above a 10-2 Boise team.

Teams that will never ever ever win a A-12 football championship or sniff an access bowl.

UCONN
Temple
Memphis


Those seem to be most of the fans crying about Tulsa.

A lot of Memphis folks have been backing you, get off your motherfucking high horse with that ******* bull****. It's bad enough you're a borderline troll, but you need to remember what ******* board you are on if you plan to talk ******* **** at every opportunity.

(03-17-2013 04:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I do think the long term upside to S Miss is higher.

Maybe - but 0-12 and severe financial trouble spells caution (and they just dont' seem to have access to much money). They aren't one of those giant state schools with 30K+ students. Good thing we really don't have to choose for a year or 2. That will allow some things to settle down.

While all TU officials have been incredibly tight lipped the Tulsa World seems to think an announcment is coming this week and we've just been waiting for CUSA BBall touney to get done. Kind of curious if any of you with real sources - not just opinons have heard differently.

"Now that the TU-hosted C-USA Tourney is finished, it is expected that the Tulsa-Big East possibility becomes reality within the next week." billhaisten

(03-17-2013 03:50 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 03:05 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  If USM could get Tyndall locked up at a legit salary I'd want them over Tulsa for basketball reasons alone.

If the new conference has the same agenda on the academic side as the BE did; then USM and Marshall will not be asked to join.

Obviously, with the invites that were made, academics is not a criterion. Some top notch and some regular old "State U" quality.

Tulsa is coming unless Navy backs out sometime in the next year.

(03-17-2013 04:11 PM)Stookey57 Wrote:  There is no need to have a conference championship game

ESPN does not agree...and they always get their way.

(03-17-2013 04:28 PM)panicstricken Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 04:11 PM)Stookey57 Wrote:  There is no need to have a conference championship game

If you never want to be ranked above the MWC champ. Then sure. No need for a championship game.

Have you guys not noticed that the MWC got more money, is a better hoops conference and has the BCS buster darling. You guys are clowns if you think a 9-2 A12 will ever be ranked above a 10-2 Boise team.

Teams that will never ever ever win a A-12 football championship or sniff an access bowl.

UCONN
Temple
Memphis


Those seem to be most of the fans crying about Tulsa.

GTFOH with that bull. We already won a share of the Big East title twice, when this was a real conference. UConn is a real state flagship land grant university, not a 3,000 strong small liberal arts college. Tulsa has no chance of ever being equal to UConn in anything.

UMass by far has the highest ceiling of the candidates we've discussed and are a rival for UConn. That's why I want them. At the same time, I hope we get out of this joke of a conference soon, which would be before they get their legs in football. So, I understand if nobody wants to do anything for our benefit.

Who cares about their "market" and all that (what has proven to be) bullsh*t.

They play great football, would strengthen our conference, and further cripple CUSA (Tulsa is basically all they have left) -- overall improving our shot at landing the GO5 bid on any given year. That is what matters.

Not to mention, they would strengthen our Olympic sports, as evidenced by the fact that they've played UCF in basically every CUSA Championship this year.

Fierce rival of SMU and Houston.

Top 100 USNWR, as well.

It's a no brainer.

(03-17-2013 04:54 PM)WinOrLoseEAGLE Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 03:50 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 03:05 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  If USM could get Tyndall locked up at a legit salary I'd want them over Tulsa for basketball reasons alone.

If the new conference has the same agenda on the academic side as the BE did; then USM and Marshall will not be asked to join.

Obviously, with the invites that were made, academics is not a criterion. Some top notch and some regular old "State U" quality.

Academics was part of it, which is why USM and Marshall don't come up; but Tulsa and UMass do.