Congrats to Cards for their Football and Basketball Conference victories!

So much happened to the B12 that I think it became mentally exhausted and wanted to "catch its breath." The B12 made several good moves but it blew the decision on Louisville.

Tallgrass, we've rehashed this argument over and over. There's no need to keep hammering on it...

I think ACC should have added WVU, Louisville and UCONN + Notre Dame hybrid and they are all set as the best Basketball Conference in the country and a very solid FB league. Academic snobbery prevented the WVU invite but they are a natural geographic fit and an overall quality Athletic Program. SEC also would be a natural fit for WVU and UL but for WVU they need to have NC and VA as states added to connect WV. Louisville would have to have their little Sister KY get her panties out of the wad before they could ever be added to the SEC but both are a better fit for the SEC and ACC IMO then Big12

(03-17-2013 08:50 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Tallgrass, we've rehashed this argument over and over. There's no need to keep hammering on it...

The hashing was a WVA versus Louisville argument....all caused by B12's mistake of not realizing both programs are huge positives and both should be in B12. All the attention was focused on these two schools....but the larger issue was lost, B12 needed both WVA and Louisville.

I haven't been bashful on this board....but I can and will compliment others on doing a fine job. That doesn't make me an anti B12 or anti WVA fan.

The SEC doesn't NEED VA and NC to connect up to WV. Kentucky is a border state to WV. WVU would connect up just as nicely without 'em...

(03-17-2013 08:54 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 08:50 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Tallgrass, we've rehashed this argument over and over. There's no need to keep hammering on it...

The hashing was a WVA versus Louisville argument....all caused by B12's mistake of not realizing both programs are huge positives and both should be in B12. All the attention was focused on these two schools....but the larger issue was lost, B12 needed both WVA and Louisville.

I haven't been bashful on this board....but I can and will compliment others on doing a fine job. That doesn't make me an anti B12 or anti WVA fan.

I never said otherwise. But the issue the B12 had to address was having 10 schools to meet their TV contract demands. Adding another school would have decreased the per school payout. So adding both would have been counterproductive at that time...

As long as new markets are the focus of expansion,Louisville and WVU are with Clemson, GT and Florida State on the list of "yeah they'd fit but will only be considered if we are 1) forced to expand but 2) can't land our big prizes of NC and VA ACC schools.

(03-17-2013 08:55 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The SEC doesn't NEED VA and NC to connect up to WV. Kentucky is a border state to WV. WVU would connect up just as nicely without 'em...

(03-17-2013 08:54 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 08:50 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Tallgrass, we've rehashed this argument over and over. There's no need to keep hammering on it...

The hashing was a WVA versus Louisville argument....all caused by B12's mistake of not realizing both programs are huge positives and both should be in B12. All the attention was focused on these two schools....but the larger issue was lost, B12 needed both WVA and Louisville.

I haven't been bashful on this board....but I can and will compliment others on doing a fine job. That doesn't make me an anti B12 or anti WVA fan.

I never said otherwise. But the issue the B12 had to address was having 10 schools to meet their TV contract demands. Adding another school would have decreased the per school payout. So adding both would have been counterproductive at that time...

That was the short term logic....and, in the long term, B12's failure to go to at least 12 teams now may come to haunt.

I think B12 should've added both Cincinnati and Louisville as travel partners for West Virginia. Not only are both good football schools (which is the B12's focus), but both are great basketball schools too. Finally Kansas would have some challengers to the B12 basketball crown.

In the long term, we'll all be dead. Few people look at the long term, since that is its ultimate conclusion...

(03-17-2013 09:08 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  In the long term, we'll all be dead. Few people look at the long term, since that is its ultimate conclusion...

Bit, Look at your post in the ACC/Duke thread....that WVA wanted BE to go to 12 teams...is history repeating itself?

Bigger mistake = acc not inviting WVU. I think both sides could fix it all with a football only union...maybe duke's new attitude could enlighten folks.

big 24

w: texas, tex tech, baylor, tcu, ou, ok state
s: unc, duke, nc state, wake, uva, va tech
e: bc, cuse, ga tech, clemson, fsu, miami
n: ku, ksu, isu, pitt, wvu, lville

play a 5-1-1-1 format. ND will play 6 games, 4 rotated from each division + 2 of their choosing. Of course, they will have to petition for a rule change, either 2 game playoff or the 2 highest ranked division winners meet in a champ game.

If we are talking about the Big 12's mistakes. After Colorado and Nebraska left the conference. The Big12 should have got together and worked at getting Arkansas and New Mexico to join.

(03-17-2013 09:16 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 09:08 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  In the long term, we'll all be dead. Few people look at the long term, since that is its ultimate conclusion...

Bit, Look at your post in the ACC/Duke thread....that WVA wanted BE to go to 12 teams...is history repeating itself?

I doubt it. A 10 team conference is the perfect size for round robin play in all sports, whereas an 8 team conference has inherent weaknesses. Scheduling is just the most obvious...

B12 can still add UConn and Cincinnati for West Virginia.

UConn and Cincinnati would come running in a New York minute.

(03-17-2013 09:03 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 08:55 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The SEC doesn't NEED VA and NC to connect up to WV. Kentucky is a border state to WV. WVU would connect up just as nicely without 'em...

(03-17-2013 08:54 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 08:50 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Tallgrass, we've rehashed this argument over and over. There's no need to keep hammering on it...

The hashing was a WVA versus Louisville argument....all caused by B12's mistake of not realizing both programs are huge positives and both should be in B12. All the attention was focused on these two schools....but the larger issue was lost, B12 needed both WVA and Louisville.

I haven't been bashful on this board....but I can and will compliment others on doing a fine job. That doesn't make me an anti B12 or anti WVA fan.

I never said otherwise. But the issue the B12 had to address was having 10 schools to meet their TV contract demands. Adding another school would have decreased the per school payout. So adding both would have been counterproductive at that time...

That was the short term logic....and, in the long term, B12's failure to go to at least 12 teams now may come to haunt.

agreed....

The Big 12 was ignorant not to add UofL with WVU. If you want to be the best conference, you add the best athletic programs. The ACC went in that direction and added the best program, not the best TV market.

Big 12 could have added 5 teams and went to 14 teams. And the Big 12 owns the name of Big 14 anyway. They could have added:

West Virginia
Louisville
Cincinnati
UConn
East Carolina, Central Florida or South Florida.

I think the Big 12 missed the opportunity on two fronts. A. They neglected to take a major power NCAA program. B. They allowed the ACC to make a big upgrade.

I think point B is bigger than point A.

Louisville will be just the shot in the arm the ACC has needed to bring everything together.

I agree Dave. Look at the new core for the major revenue sports:

Football
Notre Dame
Florida State
Miami
Virginia Tech
North Carolina State
Clemson
Louisville
Pitt
Syracuse

Basketball
North Carolina
Duke
North Carolina State
Miami
Syracuse
Louisville
Notre Dame

(03-17-2013 11:47 AM)Villecard Wrote:  The Big 12 was ignorant not to add UofL with WVU. If you want to be the best conference, you add the best athletic programs. The ACC went in that direction and added the best program, not the best TV market.

The TV market garbage is way overblown. WVU had only slightly better average TV ratings in 2011 despite having a Saturday night prime time game against LSU and playing in a BCS bowl, and oh yeah they draw from an entire state while Louisville primarily draws from a single city. I think the averages were like 2.6 vs. 2.2.

In reality it came down to the fact that Oliver Luck was willing to sue his way out of the Big East guns blazing and look like an idiot in the process and lock himself into a conference 800 miles away from the nearest member while Jurich calmly waited for the ACC to send an invitation. Luck played checkers, Jurich played chess.