(03-17-2013 10:29 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 10:23 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 10:12 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 10:05 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 10:01 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Field Hockey. In all fairness, Maryland has won way more overall national titles than Louisville. Louisville has gotten really good in a number of sports fairly recently.

Yep! That does it I'm sure for the average Big 10 fan. Maryland brought the Big 10 two things, a very big market and a crack through which to try to get into the ACC.

I still think it's a big risk on the Big 10's part. They chose to water down the product for more tv revenue. So what happens if Maryland and Rutgers suck every year in the Big 10. How many subscribers will they get then? No one is going to want to pay extra for a bad product. If the SEC wanted to get into Texas they could have added one of the other Texas schools a long time ago. However, it would have watered down the brand so they waited and got A&M which will be a slam dunk for them.

I agree with you here. Unfortunately under the present cable system those viewers in New Jersey and Maryland won't have a choice but to pay (or lower their tier back to basic to exclude the channel which of course they won't do).

Cable companies do have a choice. B10 is trying to use the tactic of keeping Maryland and Rutgers off the network unless the cable companies add it to their basic tier. I'm interested to see if the cable companies care enough or if people care enough to make this happen.

That would be interesting. Surely the Big 10 did due diligence on this prior to making the offers? If not that would be funny.

(03-17-2013 07:31 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 07:21 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 01:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 01:12 AM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  The way I am reading his statements is that he is saying that on the one hand the ACC is strong and there is every reason to believe the conference can remain so, especially given the numbers of eyeballs in the conference footprint. On the other hand, I think he is suggesting that if the ACC starts to lose additional members then Duke will do whatever is necessary to preserve its position as one of the haves, including joining the exodus. If it becomes apparent to him that North Carolina and Virginia plan to join another conference, he will hitch his wagon to UNC and go along for the ride.

I think Gamecock pegged it about right. Lip service to football and cash to basketball. If the ACC is raided then U.N.C. will be protecting N.C. State at the behest of the State's insistence. They have to support both public universities. Maybe Duke is sending signals to other conferences that they will be willing to step up football spending and will not totally be pigskin dead weight.

I think the more enlightening news of the Day was the financial aid package for Maryland. It seems to indicate that the Big 10 expects the 52 million dollar exit fee will hold. If so more defections from the ACC will be unlikely. N.D.'s joining early seems to indicate the same. We'll see.

Once again, no it doesn't signal that the Big Ten expects the whole 52 million dollar exit fee to hold up. All the Baltimore Sun indicated is that the Big Ten is paying Maryland 20-30 million dollars. That could be a partial payment or a full payment, we do not know. It all depends upon agreements that we will never see or know about until this is all over.

The Big Ten's agreement with Maryland could have been to help with the full amount or it could have been that they would help out with what the initial exit fee was before the increase.

We don't know but you and others are showing an obvious agenda in this by trying to overplay what was said in the Baltimore Sun. It doesn't matter that you are because this is all talk and wont make a difference as to how things actually go but you are better than that JR. I expect others to spin it but not you.

So the Big 10 different offer any of this to Nebraska when they brought them on board. Rutgers is getting nothing either. And the Big 10 is giving a ton of cash up front to MARYLAND just to get them to jump? You and I both know there's more to the story here.

Furthermore, it begs the question can the Big 10 even afford to take anymore ACC teams. Now with this information out there, any new teams will demand even more than what Maryland is getting. Can you imagine what it would cost to get UNC or UVA to leave the ACC?

I WILL agree with you sir that there is much more to the story than we know. That is why I am telling folks to stop assuming so much in regards to this. I do not think it is a stretch at all to assume that this indirectly coincides with the Exit Fee amount but that is all we know in that regard.

In regard to getting other schools to leave, I don't think they will leave with the current exit fee in tact. This is the point in the scenario where it is murky to me.

I have to say, after reading the article (and being very late to the party), I think the Duke AD would argue strongly for accepting a Big Ten or an SEC invite.

“It’s called compression state economics and the basic theory of compression state economics is to amortize more resources across fewer units,” he said.

And the Big Ten and SEC aren't going anywhere.

(03-17-2013 11:00 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I have to say, after reading the article (and being very late to the party), I think the Duke AD would argue strongly for accepting a Big Ten or an SEC invite.

“It’s called compression state economics and the basic theory of compression state economics is to amortize more resources across fewer units,” he said.

And the Big Ten and SEC aren't going anywhere.

I don't see how you got that out of this article. All he is saying is the ACC needs to make more money and do it without having to continuously add teams. Maximize revenue streams that's the name of the game. Duke doesn't belong in the SEC or Big 10 and I highly doubt they would ever push for an invite unless it was last resort.

(03-17-2013 11:05 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Duke doesn't belong in the SEC or Big 10 and I highly doubt they would ever push for an invite unless it was last resort.

It all depends on how dependent Duke is on a fairly guaranteed future revenue stream. They perhaps have the easiest way out if they believe that the ACC can't sustain growth.

I don't understand why the leaders at FSU and Duke put this stuff out there in the public eye if they really believe that there is no doubt about the future.

(03-17-2013 11:00 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I have to say, after reading the article (and being very late to the party), I think the Duke AD would argue strongly for accepting a Big Ten or an SEC invite.

“It’s called compression state economics and the basic theory of compression state economics is to amortize more resources across fewer units,” he said.

And the Big Ten and SEC aren't going anywhere.

Exactly.

(03-17-2013 11:13 AM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:05 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Duke doesn't belong in the SEC or Big 10 and I highly doubt they would ever push for an invite unless it was last resort.

It all depends on how dependent Duke is on a fairly guaranteed future revenue stream. They perhaps have the easiest way out if they believe that the ACC can't sustain growth.

I don't understand why the leaders at FSU and Duke put this stuff out there in the public eye if they really believe that there is no doubt about the future.

What stuff did Duke put out that was bad? In this article he reiterated the shifting landscapes and basically said the ACC is in a much stronger position that people realize.

(03-17-2013 11:05 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:00 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I have to say, after reading the article (and being very late to the party), I think the Duke AD would argue strongly for accepting a Big Ten or an SEC invite.

“It’s called compression state economics and the basic theory of compression state economics is to amortize more resources across fewer units,” he said.

And the Big Ten and SEC aren't going anywhere.

I don't see how you got that out of this article. All he is saying is the ACC needs to make more money and do it without having to continuously add teams. Maximize revenue streams that's the name of the game. Duke doesn't belong in the SEC or Big 10 and I highly doubt they would ever push for an invite unless it was last resort.

He says that. But that's not all he says.

1. He takes the possibility of 60-70 football schools breaking away very seriously, and he says that Duke MUST be in that group.
2. He takes the possibility of going from five power conferences to four seriously. Which would mean the breakup or relegation of the Big 12 or the ACC.
3. He talks about the Big Ten network being the only one currently delivering revenue. He doesn't mention that the BTN is the only one that is fully operational.

And most revealing, to me, he doesn't say one word about tradition or historic rivalries or anything like that. Which says to me that Duke's AD would not wait for Carolina's approval or participation before accepting an invite.

The ACC has strengths, and he's working on building up Duke's football program and fanbase. But this is not a man who would bet his house on the ACC staying together and staying a power conference in 10 years\.

(03-17-2013 11:21 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:05 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:00 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I have to say, after reading the article (and being very late to the party), I think the Duke AD would argue strongly for accepting a Big Ten or an SEC invite.

“It’s called compression state economics and the basic theory of compression state economics is to amortize more resources across fewer units,” he said.

And the Big Ten and SEC aren't going anywhere.

I don't see how you got that out of this article. All he is saying is the ACC needs to make more money and do it without having to continuously add teams. Maximize revenue streams that's the name of the game. Duke doesn't belong in the SEC or Big 10 and I highly doubt they would ever push for an invite unless it was last resort.

He says that. But that's not all he says.

1. He takes the possibility of 60-70 football schools breaking away very seriously, and he says that Duke MUST be in that group.
2. He takes the possibility of going from five power conferences to four seriously. Which would mean the breakup or relegation of the Big 12 or the ACC.
3. He talks about the Big Ten network being the only one currently delivering revenue. He doesn't mention that the BTN is the only one that is fully operational.

And most revealing, to me, he doesn't say one word about tradition or historic rivalries or anything like that. Which says to me that Duke's AD would not wait for Carolina's approval or participation before accepting an invite.

The ACC has strengths, and he's working on building up Duke's football program and fanbase. But this is not a man who would bet his house on the ACC staying together and staying a power conference in 10 years\.

Duke is private and doesn't need to wait for UNC like NC State does. However, he knows that Duke is lower in the pecking order and if the ACC implodes they don't want to be left out like UCONN is in the BE. In this day and age nothing is 100% certain. Duke is doing their due diligence like a good school should.

(03-17-2013 11:21 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:05 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:00 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I have to say, after reading the article (and being very late to the party), I think the Duke AD would argue strongly for accepting a Big Ten or an SEC invite.

“It’s called compression state economics and the basic theory of compression state economics is to amortize more resources across fewer units,” he said.

And the Big Ten and SEC aren't going anywhere.

I don't see how you got that out of this article. All he is saying is the ACC needs to make more money and do it without having to continuously add teams. Maximize revenue streams that's the name of the game. Duke doesn't belong in the SEC or Big 10 and I highly doubt they would ever push for an invite unless it was last resort.

He says that. But that's not all he says.

1. He takes the possibility of 60-70 football schools breaking away very seriously, and he says that Duke MUST be in that group.
2. He takes the possibility of going from five power conferences to four seriously. Which would mean the breakup or relegation of the Big 12 or the ACC.
3. He talks about the Big Ten network being the only one currently delivering revenue. He doesn't mention that the BTN is the only one that is fully operational.

And most revealing, to me, he doesn't say one word about tradition or historic rivalries or anything like that. Which says to me that Duke's AD would not wait for Carolina's approval or participation before accepting an invite.

The ACC has strengths, and he's working on building up Duke's football program and fanbase. But this is not a man who would bet his house on the ACC staying together and staying a power conference in 10 years\.

To go even further with that emboldened part you could point out where very early on in the piece, he speaks about how Duke cannot sit back and watch things happen but may very well have to actively make things happen.

Making things happen in the context of what he is discussing means movement.

Well I guess this is something we won't have to worry about because neither the SEC nor the Big 10 will invite Duke.

(03-17-2013 11:57 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Well I guess this is something we won't have to worry about because neither the SEC nor the Big 10 will invite Duke.

Guess this means you feel you lost the debate.

(03-17-2013 11:52 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:21 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:05 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:00 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I have to say, after reading the article (and being very late to the party), I think the Duke AD would argue strongly for accepting a Big Ten or an SEC invite.

“It’s called compression state economics and the basic theory of compression state economics is to amortize more resources across fewer units,” he said.

And the Big Ten and SEC aren't going anywhere.

I don't see how you got that out of this article. All he is saying is the ACC needs to make more money and do it without having to continuously add teams. Maximize revenue streams that's the name of the game. Duke doesn't belong in the SEC or Big 10 and I highly doubt they would ever push for an invite unless it was last resort.

He says that. But that's not all he says.

1. He takes the possibility of 60-70 football schools breaking away very seriously, and he says that Duke MUST be in that group.
2. He takes the possibility of going from five power conferences to four seriously. Which would mean the breakup or relegation of the Big 12 or the ACC.
3. He talks about the Big Ten network being the only one currently delivering revenue. He doesn't mention that the BTN is the only one that is fully operational.

And most revealing, to me, he doesn't say one word about tradition or historic rivalries or anything like that. Which says to me that Duke's AD would not wait for Carolina's approval or participation before accepting an invite.

The ACC has strengths, and he's working on building up Duke's football program and fanbase. But this is not a man who would bet his house on the ACC staying together and staying a power conference in 10 years\.

To go even further with that emboldened part you could point out where very early on in the piece, he speaks about how Duke cannot sit back and watch things happen but may very well have to actively make things happen.

Making things happen in the context of what he is discussing means movement.

That's one interpretation and it might be the one he intended, but what I perceived him to say was that Duke would have to be intentional in building up its football product. And that was the proactive response to which he referred.

(03-17-2013 12:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:52 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:21 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:05 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:00 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I have to say, after reading the article (and being very late to the party), I think the Duke AD would argue strongly for accepting a Big Ten or an SEC invite.

“It’s called compression state economics and the basic theory of compression state economics is to amortize more resources across fewer units,” he said.

And the Big Ten and SEC aren't going anywhere.

I don't see how you got that out of this article. All he is saying is the ACC needs to make more money and do it without having to continuously add teams. Maximize revenue streams that's the name of the game. Duke doesn't belong in the SEC or Big 10 and I highly doubt they would ever push for an invite unless it was last resort.

He says that. But that's not all he says.

1. He takes the possibility of 60-70 football schools breaking away very seriously, and he says that Duke MUST be in that group.
2. He takes the possibility of going from five power conferences to four seriously. Which would mean the breakup or relegation of the Big 12 or the ACC.
3. He talks about the Big Ten network being the only one currently delivering revenue. He doesn't mention that the BTN is the only one that is fully operational.

And most revealing, to me, he doesn't say one word about tradition or historic rivalries or anything like that. Which says to me that Duke's AD would not wait for Carolina's approval or participation before accepting an invite.

The ACC has strengths, and he's working on building up Duke's football program and fanbase. But this is not a man who would bet his house on the ACC staying together and staying a power conference in 10 years\.

To go even further with that emboldened part you could point out where very early on in the piece, he speaks about how Duke cannot sit back and watch things happen but may very well have to actively make things happen.

Making things happen in the context of what he is discussing means movement.

That's one interpretation and it might be the one he intended, but what I perceived him to say was that Duke would have to be intentional in building up its football product. And that was the proactive response to which he referred.

You seem to have recreated the piece into one of your own imagining. Here, let me give you an extended quote early in the piece before he ever brought up Duke Football needing to expand.

Quote:Where does that leave the ACC? And if Duke’s home for the last 60 years flounders, where does that leave Duke?

Those are concerns that current Duke Vice President and Director of Athletics Dr. Kevin White has to confront. He’s determined not to be dilatory like the Trinity administration in the ‘20s. Instead, he’s planning to follow the proactive path that Cameron pioneered in the early ‘50s.

“If you are Duke, what you want to do is be a leader in creating tomorrow,” White said recently. “You don’t want to run the risk of having someone else create tomorrow for you and make you see the world through their respective prism … quite frankly, you would find that to be uncomfortable, and/or untenable for a place like Duke.”

While White has some concerns about the changing sports landscape, he believes that Duke is in a strong position for the future.

“To be honest, I think college athletics needs Duke – college athletics needs institutions that are seriously committed to the highest academic ideals and that can compete on gameday,” he said. “There are but a large handful of those institutions.”

Not one mention in there yet about Duke Football. That comes later in the piece. He is still talking in general realignment terms at this point. Football is not brought up till the next section. Perhaps the writer failed in his presentation but it definitely seems that HIS interpretation is that the Duke Vice President is speaking in overall terms when talking about creating the future in their vision rather than in the vision of others.

Whom he means by "others" is definitely up for individual interpretation and certainly that was the VP's intention.

I realize it is a very long article but lets not try to twist it too much.

(03-17-2013 12:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:57 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Well I guess this is something we won't have to worry about because neither the SEC nor the Big 10 will invite Duke.

Guess this means you feel you lost the debate.

You can't be serious. Duke isn't going anywhere and we all know that.

(03-17-2013 12:19 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 12:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:57 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Well I guess this is something we won't have to worry about because neither the SEC nor the Big 10 will invite Duke.

Guess this means you feel you lost the debate.

You can't be serious. Duke isn't going anywhere and we all know that.

I am serious and no we dont all know that. Yet another silly ass ACC poster attempt to try and paint such a picture.

You have nothing that tells you for sure they aren't going anywhere. What is it? North Carolina culture? Duke is located in the state but it's student population and alumni population have only a minority coming from North Carolina. Is it value? Duke holds a lot of value especially to a conference such as the Big Ten or even for the SEC which needs more basketball power for it's new Network.

Your little one liners with which you try to state how things are in very ignorant fashion are very old, very tired and very unintelligent.

Must be another UNC t shirt fan.

Did you really just call him out because he "doesn't know that Duke won't leave"?

That insinuates you do know they will leave and if you don't then, well....pot meet kettle.

(03-17-2013 12:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 12:19 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 12:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:57 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Well I guess this is something we won't have to worry about because neither the SEC nor the Big 10 will invite Duke.

Guess this means you feel you lost the debate.

You can't be serious. Duke isn't going anywhere and we all know that.

I am serious and no we dont all know that. Yet another silly ass ACC poster attempt to try and paint such a picture.

You have nothing that tells you for sure they aren't going anywhere. What is it? North Carolina culture? Duke is located in the state but it's student population and alumni population have only a minority coming from North Carolina. Is it value? Duke holds a lot of value especially to a conference such as the Big Ten or even for the SEC which needs more basketball power for it's new Network.

Your little one liners with which you try to state how things are in very ignorant fashion are very old, very tired and very unintelligent.

Must be another UNC t shirt fan.

If conferences wanted Duke that bad right now, UCONN would already be in a larger conference. Duke has had arugably the worst football over the last 10-15 years of any BCS conference member. All of a sudden their football becomes desirable? Just don't see it.

(03-17-2013 12:30 PM)krux Wrote:  That insinuates you do know they will leave and if you don't then, well....pot meet kettle.

On the "Official Website of Duke Athletics" this article laid out where Duke has been, where they are today, and where they want to be tomorrow. If that is not "laying the groundwork" for potential change I don't know what is.

If the intent was to fortify the resolve of the ACC, he said that the ACC was already working together more than ever... And if I'm an official from another ACC institution I read this at least 3 times, and feel worse each time.

(03-17-2013 12:30 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 12:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 12:19 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 12:05 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 11:57 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Well I guess this is something we won't have to worry about because neither the SEC nor the Big 10 will invite Duke.

Guess this means you feel you lost the debate.

You can't be serious. Duke isn't going anywhere and we all know that.

I am serious and no we dont all know that. Yet another silly ass ACC poster attempt to try and paint such a picture.

You have nothing that tells you for sure they aren't going anywhere. What is it? North Carolina culture? Duke is located in the state but it's student population and alumni population have only a minority coming from North Carolina. Is it value? Duke holds a lot of value especially to a conference such as the Big Ten or even for the SEC which needs more basketball power for it's new Network.

Your little one liners with which you try to state how things are in very ignorant fashion are very old, very tired and very unintelligent.

Must be another UNC t shirt fan.

If conferences wanted Duke that bad right now, UCONN would already be in a larger conference. Duke has had arugably the worst football over the last 10-15 years of any BCS conference member. All of a sudden their football becomes desirable? Just don't see it.

It's not so simplistic. It is not just about someone wanting Duke football. This is what irritates me. Folks do not look at the whole picture, not seeing the entirety of value that Duke would provide to others. I am NOT saying the move, I am in no position to make such an absolute statement. I Do think that the value is there for them to be picked up, especially since they are in the process of expanding their stadium and they are actively spending money to improve their football program. That shows they are looking forward too and not just backwards at tradition.


Is it that you do not see the overall value of Duke to the Big Ten? You do not see the overall value of Duke to the SEC? Personally I think Duke provides more value to the Big Ten than to the SEC but that is not to say they wouldn't be valuable in the SEC.

I understand why you as a UNC fan hate the idea of possibly parting from Duke but this is not the type of discussion that can be entered into fully if one is doing so with blinded biased eyes.

Maybe something happens, maybe nothing does but all these nobodies on here making absolute statements about **** that they do not know absolutely everything about is just drowning this forum in ignorance.