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Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
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allthatyoucantleavebehind Offline
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Post: #1
Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
I know "forever" is a long time, but I'm a Big Ten fan here finally conceding that Notre Dame will never, ever join the Big Ten. I've held on to this power conference dream for a long time as a Big Ten fan...but I'm convinced now that the ACC will remain their home (non-football) while football remains independent...even if the ACC as we know it collapses.

Since the ACC acquired the New England schools (former Big East), Notre Dame has a solid cache of old basketball rivals that probably won't get sucked in to the Big Ten or the SEC.

If the Big Ten and SEC go to 16 teams each, the worst that would happen to the ACC is it would be down to 10. It'd be easy to refill to 12, if it desired. And the 10 remaining would be strong enough in all sports to maintain a viable conference for the Irish.

Only if a "doomsday" scenario arose--with both the Big Ten and SEC ballooning to 20 teams--would I see the viability of the ACC being threatened. And I don't think the SEC is going to 20 any time soon (although I'm not so trusting when it comes to Delany).

So, Irish fans, consider this one ND-to-the-B1G proponent who has bit the dust...
03-16-2013 05:52 AM
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SeaBlue Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
"Forever" in Conference Realignment Time is about 2 weeks 03-wink Ok, give it a couple years for the ACC to evaluate just what a half-in ND football team means to their conference.

But I agree that in general that ND-to-B1G has really been put on the way-back burner with ND making the ACC move and B1G expanding. I was with you on wanting ND in. Still do, but I see now that the "independent" mantra could get old given that I think B1G is the strongest cohesive conference in terms of the institutions (not just the athletic departments) working towards a common goal.
03-16-2013 06:49 AM
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Vewb1 Offline
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RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
Considering the fact that Notre Dame will not only take a bowl slot in the ACC, but possibly the top bowl slot and ALL the bowl money (Notre Dame will not have to share via contract with ACC). For instance, this year Notre Dame made roughly two million in bowl dollars at the national title game from the league (distributed amoung Big East teams, if the same picture were true this year such as Notre Dame goes to the national title game, they would make 23.9 million and not have to share a penny with the other ACC teams). That's why they went to the ACC and not BIG. BIG was not willing to make that arrangement. BIG played it better than the ACC. That's why I would prefer Cincinnati look west to the Big 12. I don't want to be in a league with Notre Dame. Don't get me wrong, I like the university, but their athletic department is money hungry and out of control.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2013 07:08 AM by Vewb1.)
03-16-2013 07:07 AM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
(03-16-2013 05:52 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  I know "forever" is a long time, but I'm a Big Ten fan here finally conceding that Notre Dame will never, ever join the Big Ten. I've held on to this power conference dream for a long time as a Big Ten fan...but I'm convinced now that the ACC will remain their home (non-football) while football remains independent...even if the ACC as we know it collapses.

Since the ACC acquired the New England schools (former Big East), Notre Dame has a solid cache of old basketball rivals that probably won't get sucked in to the Big Ten or the SEC.

If the Big Ten and SEC go to 16 teams each, the worst that would happen to the ACC is it would be down to 10. It'd be easy to refill to 12, if it desired. And the 10 remaining would be strong enough in all sports to maintain a viable conference for the Irish.

Only if a "doomsday" scenario arose--with both the Big Ten and SEC ballooning to 20 teams--would I see the viability of the ACC being threatened. And I don't think the SEC is going to 20 any time soon (although I'm not so trusting when it comes to Delany).

So, Irish fans, consider this one ND-to-the-B1G proponent who has bit the dust...



I will raise a Guinness at the Irish flag flying from the flagpole in my front yard in honor of your surrender. 04-cheers

ND has no desire, at all, to ever be a member of the Big Ten, no matter how much money there is to be made or how many members it has.

That should have been clear in 1999 when the ND Board of Regents rejected Big Ten membership, again in 2010 when Delany's big push to add Texas and ND (with bold predictions of BTN profits) failed and again last fall when ND announced it was going to the ACC (and cancelled the Michigan series).

Why that was not obvious until now baffles me. Why did you thing otherwise?

If ND ever has to join a football conference, it will be more than likely be the ACC. ND has made its favored potential conference destination pretty clear.
03-16-2013 07:21 AM
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SeaBlue Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
My current theory is that there are only a few conferences that can take on ND without it being an underlying source of discontent over the long haul. The ACC, especially in its current state of unsettledness, is not one of them.

Now ND could certainly change its tune and become an equal partner somewhere, but I don't see that happening right now.
03-16-2013 07:26 AM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
(03-16-2013 07:07 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  Considering the fact that Notre Dame will not only take a bowl slot in the ACC, but possibly the top bowl slot and ALL the bowl money (Notre Dame will not have to share via contract with ACC). For instance, this year Notre Dame made roughly two million in bowl dollars at the national title game from the league (distributed amoung Big East teams, if the same picture were true this year such as Notre Dame goes to the national title game, they would make 23.9 million and not have to share a penny with the other ACC teams). That's why they went to the ACC and not BIG. BIG was not willing to make that arrangement. BIG played it better than the ACC. That's why I would prefer Cincinnati look west to the Big 12. I don't want to be in a league with Notre Dame. Don't get me wrong, I like the university, but their athletic department is money hungry and out of control.

ND got zero dollars "from the league" for appearing in the national title game.

ND received the same BCS "second conference team" payout that it always does under its unique, separate agreement with the BCS.

The Big East had nothing to do with it, paid nothing to ND and shared none of that money.


"As the SEC’s top team, Alabama will earn its conference a hefty $23.6 million payout from the BCS. The independent Notre Dame doesn’t have a conference to share with, but it does have one of the best deals in college sports. The Fighting Irish will receive a unique $6.2 million payout for making a BCS bowl game this season"


http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2...mpionship/



The same situation holds true with the ACC deal. ND will get and will share no money with ACC teams if ND gets into the BCS (2013) or the playoffs (2014 and beyond).

It is a neutral move regarding the BCS or the playoffs. ND's payout is independent from any conference share.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2013 07:30 AM by TerryD.)
03-16-2013 07:28 AM
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SeaBlue Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
(03-16-2013 07:21 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND has made its favored potential conference destination pretty clear.

Well, yeah... That would be anyone not named "Big Ten," with a significant East Coast football and basketball presence, and willing to make "special" arrangements. As for the other 5,000 arguments, as far as I can tell, we're down to pretty much just those 3.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2013 07:49 AM by SeaBlue.)
03-16-2013 07:45 AM
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UConn-SMU Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
The ACC "acquired the New England schools"? Really?

There are three New England schools ... UConn, UMass, and BC. The ACC only has BC.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2013 07:52 AM by UConn-SMU.)
03-16-2013 07:50 AM
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Tallgrass Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
(03-16-2013 05:52 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  I know "forever" is a long time, but I'm a Big Ten fan here finally conceding that Notre Dame will never, ever join the Big Ten. I've held on to this power conference dream for a long time as a Big Ten fan...but I'm convinced now that the ACC will remain their home (non-football) while football remains independent...even if the ACC as we know it collapses.

Since the ACC acquired the New England schools (former Big East), Notre Dame has a solid cache of old basketball rivals that probably won't get sucked in to the Big Ten or the SEC.

If the Big Ten and SEC go to 16 teams each, the worst that would happen to the ACC is it would be down to 10. It'd be easy to refill to 12, if it desired. And the 10 remaining would be strong enough in all sports to maintain a viable conference for the Irish.

Only if a "doomsday" scenario arose--with both the Big Ten and SEC ballooning to 20 teams--would I see the viability of the ACC being threatened. And I don't think the SEC is going to 20 any time soon (although I'm not so trusting when it comes to Delany).

So, Irish fans, consider this one ND-to-the-B1G proponent who has bit the dust...

Welcome to the board and I have been saying the same thing for some time except from the other side of the fence. Cincy, UConn, USF, and possibly Temple, UMass, UCF and ECU provide strong candidates for a 10 team truncated ACC. And you hit the nail on the head, when you said it should stay at 10 teams. This conference will probably not be AQ but it would be a very strong basketball conference and good in football. This conference needs to keep its eastern geography in tact and build upon its eastern tradition. The "branding" if you will, is eastern.

Watching some basketball last night, the announcers said the Catholic (Big East) schools and the former BE schools joining the ACC are already setting up nonconference games in BB. That is definitely the way to go, good for competition, good for visibility.
03-16-2013 08:17 AM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
(03-16-2013 08:17 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  
(03-16-2013 05:52 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  I know "forever" is a long time, but I'm a Big Ten fan here finally conceding that Notre Dame will never, ever join the Big Ten. I've held on to this power conference dream for a long time as a Big Ten fan...but I'm convinced now that the ACC will remain their home (non-football) while football remains independent...even if the ACC as we know it collapses.

Since the ACC acquired the New England schools (former Big East), Notre Dame has a solid cache of old basketball rivals that probably won't get sucked in to the Big Ten or the SEC.

If the Big Ten and SEC go to 16 teams each, the worst that would happen to the ACC is it would be down to 10. It'd be easy to refill to 12, if it desired. And the 10 remaining would be strong enough in all sports to maintain a viable conference for the Irish.

Only if a "doomsday" scenario arose--with both the Big Ten and SEC ballooning to 20 teams--would I see the viability of the ACC being threatened. And I don't think the SEC is going to 20 any time soon (although I'm not so trusting when it comes to Delany).

So, Irish fans, consider this one ND-to-the-B1G proponent who has bit the dust...

Welcome to the board and I have been saying the same thing for some time except from the other side of the fence. Cincy, UConn, USF, and possibly Temple, UMass, UCF and ECU provide strong candidates for a 10 team truncated ACC. And you hit the nail on the head, when you said it should stay at 10 teams. This conference will probably not be AQ but it would be a very strong basketball conference and good in football. This conference needs to keep its eastern geography in tact and build upon its eastern tradition. The "branding" if you will, is eastern.

Watching some basketball last night, the announcers said the Catholic (Big East) schools and the former BE schools joining the ACC are already setting up nonconference games in BB. That is definitely the way to go, good for competition, good for visibility.

Agree. 04-rock

Expansion beyond 10 will only water down the product on the field and on the court.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2013 08:24 AM by Melky Cabrera.)
03-16-2013 08:21 AM
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Tallgrass Offline
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RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
(03-16-2013 08:21 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(03-16-2013 08:17 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  
(03-16-2013 05:52 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  I know "forever" is a long time, but I'm a Big Ten fan here finally conceding that Notre Dame will never, ever join the Big Ten. I've held on to this power conference dream for a long time as a Big Ten fan...but I'm convinced now that the ACC will remain their home (non-football) while football remains independent...even if the ACC as we know it collapses.

Since the ACC acquired the New England schools (former Big East), Notre Dame has a solid cache of old basketball rivals that probably won't get sucked in to the Big Ten or the SEC.

If the Big Ten and SEC go to 16 teams each, the worst that would happen to the ACC is it would be down to 10. It'd be easy to refill to 12, if it desired. And the 10 remaining would be strong enough in all sports to maintain a viable conference for the Irish.

Only if a "doomsday" scenario arose--with both the Big Ten and SEC ballooning to 20 teams--would I see the viability of the ACC being threatened. And I don't think the SEC is going to 20 any time soon (although I'm not so trusting when it comes to Delany).

So, Irish fans, consider this one ND-to-the-B1G proponent who has bit the dust...

Welcome to the board and I have been saying the same thing for some time except from the other side of the fence. Cincy, UConn, USF, and possibly Temple, UMass, UCF and ECU provide strong candidates for a 10 team truncated ACC. And you hit the nail on the head, when you said it should stay at 10 teams. This conference will probably not be AQ but it would be a very strong basketball conference and good in football. This conference needs to keep its eastern geography in tact and build upon its eastern tradition. The "branding" if you will, is eastern.

Watching some basketball last night, the announcers said the Catholic (Big East) schools and the former BE schools joining the ACC are already setting up nonconference games in BB. That is definitely the way to go, good for competition, good for visibility.

Agree. 04-rock

Expansion beyond 10 will only water down the product on the field and on the court.

I see according to Andy Katz Blog, that Cincy and UConn are worried about being bypassed by an up and coming UCF program. The way I look at it, a strong UCF program, along with UConn, Cincy, and USF, will provide a strong platform for all four schools in the future for a very goood eastern based conference, probably within ACC structure after B1G makes it moves.
03-16-2013 08:35 AM
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loki_the_bubba Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
(03-16-2013 07:07 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  ... That's why I would prefer Cincinnati look west to the Big 12. I don't want to be in a league with Notre Dame. Don't get me wrong, I like the university, but their athletic department is money hungry and out of control.

How could you not realize that the Big 12 includes the Longhorns?
03-16-2013 05:09 PM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
(03-16-2013 07:07 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  Considering the fact that Notre Dame will not only take a bowl slot in the ACC, but possibly the top bowl slot and ALL the bowl money (Notre Dame will not have to share via contract with ACC). For instance, this year Notre Dame made roughly two million in bowl dollars at the national title game from the league (distributed amoung Big East teams, if the same picture were true this year such as Notre Dame goes to the national title game, they would make 23.9 million and not have to share a penny with the other ACC teams). That's why they went to the ACC and not BIG. BIG was not willing to make that arrangement. BIG played it better than the ACC. That's why I would prefer Cincinnati look west to the Big 12. I don't want to be in a league with Notre Dame. Don't get me wrong, I like the university, but their athletic department is money hungry and out of control.


It is mutual. Look west. Perhaps, just stay where you are.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2013 06:35 PM by TerryD.)
03-16-2013 06:33 PM
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RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
It's remarkable how much incorrect information is in this thread, so I'll try to set the record straight. The bowl agreement between the ACC and Notre Dame works this way:

BCS/Playoff bowls - the ACC keeps theirs, Notre Dame keeps theirs. Neither has any effect (or drain) on the other.

Non-playoff/minor bowls - the ACC is about to lose its #1 non-BCS (the Chick-Fil-A), but then again, technically EVERY conference loses ALL of its non-BCS bowls after this season. That's because all of these bowls come up for renewal and/or new conference affiliation beginning in 2014.

So before ND takes a single ACC bowl, they will be part of the negotiating block... which means ND will essentially be negotiation alongside the ACC for its own bowls! You can say ND is "taking" an ACC bowl, but you could just as well say the ACC will be taking ND bowls... their bowl futures are linked together now.
03-16-2013 09:15 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
(03-16-2013 09:15 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  It's remarkable how much incorrect information is in this thread, so I'll try to set the record straight. The bowl agreement between the ACC and Notre Dame works this way:

BCS/Playoff bowls - the ACC keeps theirs, Notre Dame keeps theirs. Neither has any effect (or drain) on the other.

Non-playoff/minor bowls - the ACC is about to lose its #1 non-BCS (the Chick-Fil-A), but then again, technically EVERY conference loses ALL of its non-BCS bowls after this season. That's because all of these bowls come up for renewal and/or new conference affiliation beginning in 2014.

So before ND takes a single ACC bowl, they will be part of the negotiating block... which means ND will essentially be negotiation alongside the ACC for its own bowls! You can say ND is "taking" an ACC bowl, but you could just as well say the ACC will be taking ND bowls... their bowl futures are linked together now.

I thought the bowl agreement was if ND did not make the playoffs or access bowl, then they will become part of the ACC bowl hierarchy which will allow bowls with ACC tie-ins to select ND if they deem so.
03-16-2013 09:20 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
(03-16-2013 09:20 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(03-16-2013 09:15 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  It's remarkable how much incorrect information is in this thread, so I'll try to set the record straight. The bowl agreement between the ACC and Notre Dame works this way:

BCS/Playoff bowls - the ACC keeps theirs, Notre Dame keeps theirs. Neither has any effect (or drain) on the other.

Non-playoff/minor bowls - the ACC is about to lose its #1 non-BCS (the Chick-Fil-A), but then again, technically EVERY conference loses ALL of its non-BCS bowls after this season. That's because all of these bowls come up for renewal and/or new conference affiliation beginning in 2014.

So before ND takes a single ACC bowl, they will be part of the negotiating block... which means ND will essentially be negotiation alongside the ACC for its own bowls! You can say ND is "taking" an ACC bowl, but you could just as well say the ACC will be taking ND bowls... their bowl futures are linked together now.

I thought the bowl agreement was if ND did not make the playoffs or access bowl, then they will become part of the ACC bowl hierarchy which will allow bowls with ACC tie-ins to select ND if they deem so.

Not this year... that goes into effect in 2014. By then, all leagues will have new minor bowls anyway. My point is that Notre Dame will actually be included in the negotiations for those bowls right from the start. They will be taking a slot, but it's not like they won't be working for it, too.

The expectation is that the ACC + Notre Dame will get better bowls than the ACC alone. I guess we'll see...
03-16-2013 09:23 PM
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RE: Notre Dame...forever safe in the ACC
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