(03-12-2013 03:26 PM)mathenis89 Wrote:  To reiterate:

The Sun Belt conference fans on this board have zero interest in inviting Liberty University to the conference.

How rare is that unanimity. Hell even the prospective adds dont want Liberty. Wow

Plus any private school talking budget needs to take tuition and R&B out of the equation.

Once again this board has shown an incredible resolve to steer the discussion away from the facts, away from objective dialogue, and into the realm of ridiculous teeny bopping banter. I am finished. You people are impossible to debate in any way that even closely resembles objectivity. As the majority of you have college degrees you should be ashamed of yourselves for acting like children and refusing to debate me objectively.

This is my last post on these boards until we receive an SBC invite, which is coming this spring, mark my words on that.

(03-12-2013 03:31 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  Once again this board has shown an incredible resolve to steer the discussion away from the facts, away from objective dialogue, and into the realm of ridiculous teeny bopping banter. I am finished. You people are impossible to debate in any way that even closely resembles objectivity. As the majority of you have college degrees you should be ashamed of yourselves for acting like children and refusing to debate me objectively.

This is my last post on these boards until we receive an SBC invite, which is coming this spring, mark my words on that.

I thought many of the debates were quite objective. Simply because it didn't fit the criteria you wanted it to (ie budget, FCS success, etc) and instead focused on other criteria (collegiate fit, geography, etc), you seem to think that we aren't debating objectively.

You can try to define the parameters of the debate how you choose, but that doesn't mean that other people on here won't come and change those parameters...and good thing they do, because they have logical arguments as well.

I expect you to hold to your word on this being your last post on the subject, FYI.

Just found this:
Patrick Henry's famous quote "Give me liberty or give me death" was followed by the not so famous quote "just stop with the realignments already so these posters will keep their incessant opinions off the interwebs!"
And now you know the Rest of the Story.
Paul Harvey...................


G'Day

Based on the numbers you are overqualified for the position you are applying for.

Is it trolling to point out that Liberty is a controversial school?

Is it trolling to point out that the majority of objections to Liberty are related to their academic philosophy?

Is it trolling to point out that university presidents will be hesitant to formally link their universities to Liberty?

I call it common sense.

(03-12-2013 03:30 PM)TeKERaider Wrote:  Plus any private school talking budget needs to take tuition and R&B out of the equation.

Liberty's tuition is fairly competitive with out of state tuition rates for major state schools. I don't think the private status would negatively impact the comparison of budgets too much.

Liberty makes a ton of money off online students that channel federal loans to the school. They're having trouble spending all that money so it only makes sense that they'd have deep pockets for athletics. Hell, didn't they build a mountain with artificial snow?

Can you drink beer booze and tailgate @Liberty?

(03-12-2013 04:07 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Liberty makes a ton of money off online students that channel federal loans to the school. They're having trouble spending all that money so it only makes sense that they'd have deep pockets for athletics. Hell, didn't they build a mountain with artificial snow?

Yes they did. My school is not a SBC member so I won't comment on whether they should be invited. However, with that kind of budget for football, why have they never made the FCS playoffs?

My expert opinion.

Arkansas State University is not going to vote to invite Liberty 775 miles away ALONG with Appalachian State 629 miles away and Georgia Southern 660 miles away.

Arkansas State is not going to support adding three FCS schools until:
1. New Mexico State has been extended a bid and rejected it or accepted and further membership losses has Sun Belt football membership below 9.
2. Such time the chancellor has had opportunity to meet face-to-face with his counter-part at Missouri State and has left the meeting(s) confident that Missouri State is not going to move to FBS.
3. His counter-part at WKU or Georgia State or Troy has met face-to-face with Chattanooga's CEO and walked away from the meeting(s) convinced Chattanooga will not go FBS.

Beyond all that, I suspect the chancellor at Arkansas State as well as the system president would have strong reservations affiliating with an institution that teaches young earth creationism. At the time of the infamous Scopes "Monkey Trial" most devout Christians rejected young earthism and it wasn't until the late 50's or early 60's that a book by a Seventh Day Adventist from the 1920's became popular among some evangelicals leading to renewed interest in young earthism.

(03-12-2013 03:11 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  Experiment - How long until the Sun Belt faithful (as I can promise you no Liberty fan will) steer this conversation towards religious, political, or philosophical ballyhoo, and ultimately the closing of said conversation by a Sun Belt Forum moderator?

Now gentlemen, let us talk budgets, and shall we have an objective conversation for once without the ache and pain of religious fervor?


Total Athletic Department Expenditures Last Year -

1. WKU - 25.7 million
2. Texas State - 25.5 million
3. Georgia State - 22.7 million
4. South Alabama - 17.7 million
5. Troy - 16.7 million
6. Lafayette - 15.3 million
7. Arkansas St. - 13.2 million
8. Monroe - 9.4 million
9. Arlington - 9.2 millioni
10. UALR - 8.6 million

The top three schools in total football expenditures -

1. South Alabama - 6.9 million
2. Lafayette - 5.8 million
3. WKU - 5.8 million


Liberty spent the following last year -

30.2 million total, and 8.4 million on football, respectively.

Now looking at those facts objectively, let us have intelligent debate and candid conversation about the possibility of Liberty being competitive right away in Olympic Sports, and eventually (and that is a big keyword, eventually, as I know some people on here will try to spin it as right away) being able to compete near the top of the conference in football as well. I referenced Liberty's tennis program handling WKU in a previous thread as an example, and upon further review it looks like our men's golf team had a February win over WKU at an invite in California. As I and several other posters have mentioned, Liberty would be competitive right away in the Olympic Sports, and while obviously it is football that drives realignment, bringing an upgrade to the SBC's Olympic Sports is never a bad idea for the conference.

Now, let us talk football. As we all are involved in college athletics, we know that football drives conference realignment...but what drives football? Without a commitment from the athletic department (and ultimately the highest levels of university administration) from a mostly financial perspective, football rarely thrives at the FBS levels. One needs to feed the beast, so to speak, and you will find throughout the highest levels of college football that the schools who spend the most money on their football programs also tend to have the best programs from a competitive standpoint. In layman's terms, you need to spend money on football in order to have a good football program. As for the rules, there are always exceptions to the rule, but for the most part it holds true.


To summarize -

Liberty has made a staggering commitment to athletics, and the following list is just the beginning -

1. Recent additions to football, with a second major upgrade planned upon FBS invitation
2. Recent addition of a state of the art practice basketball facility
3. A new 8.5 million dollar baseball stadium
4. Numerous upgrades to Olympic Sport facilities
5. Every program is fully funded with the NCAA maximum number of scholarships
6. No Title IX or APR issues
7. Every program is maxed out with the NCAA maximum amount of coaches
8. We staff our athletic department very well, and I'll list three comparisons to WKU as they have the largest budget in the SBC.

A. WKU employs 5 full time people in their sports information department, Liberty employs 5 as well
B. WKU employs 7 full time athletic trainers, Liberty employs 10.
C. WKU employs 5 full time strength and conditioning coaches, while Liberty employs 6.


9. Commitment to further increase the budget upon FBS invite. We have completed an FBS feasibility study, and our Chancellor is ready to increase the budget for all sports to "FBS Level" upon our arrival.
10. Too many other commitments to list.




Now, let us debate objectively gentlemen.

This confirms it. Liberty has now passed Ga State for worst return on investment for dollars spent on football.

Bottom line is Liberty needs Ark St, UL, WKU to get a CUSA invite. At that point the Sun Belt would have no choice but to invite Liberty.

(03-12-2013 03:21 PM)AstroCajun Wrote:  IT
DOESN'T
MATTER
LIBERTY
WILL
NOT
BE
INVITED
TO
THE
CONFERENCE
WITH
ITS
CURRENT
MEMBERSHIP
CONFIGURATION.

/END THREAD


//PS - Who is Lafayette?

He's one of the vampires on True Blood

(03-12-2013 04:48 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(03-12-2013 03:11 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  Experiment - How long until the Sun Belt faithful (as I can promise you no Liberty fan will) steer this conversation towards religious, political, or philosophical ballyhoo, and ultimately the closing of said conversation by a Sun Belt Forum moderator?

Now gentlemen, let us talk budgets, and shall we have an objective conversation for once without the ache and pain of religious fervor?


Total Athletic Department Expenditures Last Year -

1. WKU - 25.7 million
2. Texas State - 25.5 million
3. Georgia State - 22.7 million
4. South Alabama - 17.7 million
5. Troy - 16.7 million
6. Lafayette - 15.3 million
7. Arkansas St. - 13.2 million
8. Monroe - 9.4 million
9. Arlington - 9.2 millioni
10. UALR - 8.6 million

The top three schools in total football expenditures -

1. South Alabama - 6.9 million
2. Lafayette - 5.8 million
3. WKU - 5.8 million


Liberty spent the following last year -

30.2 million total, and 8.4 million on football, respectively.

Now looking at those facts objectively, let us have intelligent debate and candid conversation about the possibility of Liberty being competitive right away in Olympic Sports, and eventually (and that is a big keyword, eventually, as I know some people on here will try to spin it as right away) being able to compete near the top of the conference in football as well. I referenced Liberty's tennis program handling WKU in a previous thread as an example, and upon further review it looks like our men's golf team had a February win over WKU at an invite in California. As I and several other posters have mentioned, Liberty would be competitive right away in the Olympic Sports, and while obviously it is football that drives realignment, bringing an upgrade to the SBC's Olympic Sports is never a bad idea for the conference.

Now, let us talk football. As we all are involved in college athletics, we know that football drives conference realignment...but what drives football? Without a commitment from the athletic department (and ultimately the highest levels of university administration) from a mostly financial perspective, football rarely thrives at the FBS levels. One needs to feed the beast, so to speak, and you will find throughout the highest levels of college football that the schools who spend the most money on their football programs also tend to have the best programs from a competitive standpoint. In layman's terms, you need to spend money on football in order to have a good football program. As for the rules, there are always exceptions to the rule, but for the most part it holds true.


To summarize -

Liberty has made a staggering commitment to athletics, and the following list is just the beginning -

1. Recent additions to football, with a second major upgrade planned upon FBS invitation
2. Recent addition of a state of the art practice basketball facility
3. A new 8.5 million dollar baseball stadium
4. Numerous upgrades to Olympic Sport facilities
5. Every program is fully funded with the NCAA maximum number of scholarships
6. No Title IX or APR issues
7. Every program is maxed out with the NCAA maximum amount of coaches
8. We staff our athletic department very well, and I'll list three comparisons to WKU as they have the largest budget in the SBC.

A. WKU employs 5 full time people in their sports information department, Liberty employs 5 as well
B. WKU employs 7 full time athletic trainers, Liberty employs 10.
C. WKU employs 5 full time strength and conditioning coaches, while Liberty employs 6.


9. Commitment to further increase the budget upon FBS invite. We have completed an FBS feasibility study, and our Chancellor is ready to increase the budget for all sports to "FBS Level" upon our arrival.
10. Too many other commitments to list.




Now, let us debate objectively gentlemen.

This confirms it. Liberty has now passed Ga State for worst return on investment for dollars spent on football.

Bottom line is Liberty needs Ark St, UL, WKU to get a CUSA invite. At that point the Sun Belt would have no choice but to invite Liberty.

conferences always have choices on who to invite or not to invite

(03-12-2013 04:30 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  My expert opinion.

Arkansas State University is not going to vote to invite Liberty 775 miles away ALONG with Appalachian State 629 miles away and Georgia Southern 660 miles away.

Arkansas State is not going to support adding three FCS schools until:
1. New Mexico State has been extended a bid and rejected it or accepted and further membership losses has Sun Belt football membership below 9.
2. Such time the chancellor has had opportunity to meet face-to-face with his counter-part at Missouri State and has left the meeting(s) confident that Missouri State is not going to move to FBS.
3. His counter-part at WKU or Georgia State or Troy has met face-to-face with Chattanooga's CEO and walked away from the meeting(s) convinced Chattanooga will not go FBS.

Beyond all that, I suspect the chancellor at Arkansas State as well as the system president would have strong reservations affiliating with an institution that teaches young earth creationism. At the time of the infamous Scopes "Monkey Trial" most devout Christians rejected young earthism and it wasn't until the late 50's or early 60's that a book by a Seventh Day Adventist from the 1920's became popular among some evangelicals leading to renewed interest in young earthism.

I was reading the NMSU Scouts board the other day and it appears that they have support from you all and the Texas schools. Hope that it's enough to translate into an invitation to join.

(03-12-2013 04:30 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  My expert opinion.

Arkansas State University is not going to vote to invite Liberty 775 miles away ALONG with Appalachian State 629 miles away and Georgia Southern 660 miles away.

Arkansas State is not going to support adding three FCS schools until:
1. New Mexico State has been extended a bid and rejected it or accepted and further membership losses has Sun Belt football membership below 9.
2. Such time the chancellor has had opportunity to meet face-to-face with his counter-part at Missouri State and has left the meeting(s) confident that Missouri State is not going to move to FBS.
3. His counter-part at WKU or Georgia State or Troy has met face-to-face with Chattanooga's CEO and walked away from the meeting(s) convinced Chattanooga will not go FBS.

Beyond all that, I suspect the chancellor at Arkansas State as well as the system president would have strong reservations affiliating with an institution that teaches young earth creationism. At the time of the infamous Scopes "Monkey Trial" most devout Christians rejected young earthism and it wasn't until the late 50's or early 60's that a book by a Seventh Day Adventist from the 1920's became popular among some evangelicals leading to renewed interest in young earthism.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Sun Belt only adds Ga Southern and App this round. The bad travel and nightmarish football for NMSU are too much for some to accept. If they are needed later, SB could offer them and they could immediately transition since they are FBS.