It was inevitable that Navy would have second thoughts and probably review their decision based on recent developments. It appears the mid-week games required by the ESPN is the back breaker for Navy and, Navy, being an attractive team, would probably be a primary target for week nite games by ESPN. Article also mentions on-line only ESPN telecasts.....hmmmm.

So throw in Navy along with UConn and Cincy (when B1G expands by two) as leaving the Nbe/A12. This mid week issue has Temple concerned also, just like Navy. Is the very small gain in the A12/ESPN tv contract sufficient to offset the probably decrease in attendance for midweek games? For Navy and Temple, my guess is no.

BIG EAST TV DEAL SET BUT QUESTIONS REMAIN FOR NAVY FOOTBALL
By Kevin Lilley, Feb. 25, 2013
Military Times: AfterAction, Your Military Sports Report
http://militarytimes.com/

"The package reportedly pays $20 million a year for football and basketball rights by the time Navy joins up; right now, the league would have 11 members in 2015, so that's about $1.8 million per school--less if the league expands to a more stable 12 teams, and even less for Navy, which wouldn't get basketball related revenue. It means less money for an entire season of conference play on TV than Navy gets from its share of the Army-Navy deal with CBS--the academies reportedly split about $5 million a year."

".....On ESPN, the Big East competes with every other major college conference for spots spread among three channels (ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU) and the ABC network---sure, UConn and Cincinnati will find a spot on Saturday afternoon or evening but will Navy-Houston be worth more ad dollars than a fourth tier SEC game? Probably not---and that could mean some on line-only broadcasts or some midweek scheduling for the Mids, and less of a national sportlight than they currently enjoy with every home game locking into the CBS Sports Network's schedule."

"When Navy's move to conference play was announced, then league commissioner John Marinatto said: "That Navy would give up 100 years of football independence speaks to the long term viability of the Big East." That was 13 months ago--Marianatto is no longer commissioner, and the Big East's long-term viability is anybody's guess. Will the Mids get enough stability, national exposure and money out of all this new media arrangement to make conference life worthwhile? Or would the ability to make your own rules when it comes to opponents, TV deals, and even kickoff times be worth a little less cash?"

If Navy not coming means no Tulsa, I'm fine with that.

(03-09-2013 06:15 PM)TRest3 Wrote:  If Navy not coming means no Tulsa, I'm fine with that.

Me too! If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And if Navy does not come in, the Nbe/A12 tv contract takes a hit.

It would not surprise me to see all 12 Tulsa football games telecast this fall. What is wrong with that? Plus New Year's Day Dallas Bowl, Armed Forces Bowl, and I hope CUSA can get that bowl started in San Antonio.

Let me repeat that! If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

If no Navy, then the Big East could add UMass & Tulsa so there could be a championship game (or maybe USM and Tulsa). But I don't think that's likely.

Ten schools with nine conference games could work out very well. How refreshing to have a conference where everyone plays each other every year!

IF anyone feels like READING the 2-week old article, the link is http://militarytimes.com/blogs/afteracti...-football/

The article doesn't say anything you don't already know--lots of questions. Some of which have been answered since then.

If Navy already makes 2.5 million from the Army-Navy game, why would they join the America-12 for less than 2 million (assuming they would lose the rights to the game)?

(03-09-2013 07:09 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  If Navy already makes 2.5 million from the Army-Navy game, why would they join the America-12 for less than 2 million (assuming they would lose the rights to the game)?

If they join, it's because they believe that scheduling will become impossible as an independent.

(03-09-2013 06:17 PM)Tallgrass Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 06:15 PM)TRest3 Wrote:  If Navy not coming means no Tulsa, I'm fine with that.

Me too! If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And if Navy does not come in, the Nbe/A12 tv contract takes a hit.

It would not surprise me to see all 12 Tulsa football games telecast this fall. What is wrong with that? Plus New Year's Day Dallas Bowl, Armed Forces Bowl, and I hope CUSA can get that bowl started in San Antonio.

Let me repeat that! If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

The new years day dallas bowl will be coming off of NYD almost certainly in 2 years when the new playoff system starts(don't see any bowls that year). Armed Forces you can kiss goodbye almost certainly. CUSA will be LUCKY to have Birmingham, St Pete, Dallas, New Orleans, and Hawaii.

(03-09-2013 07:13 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 07:09 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  If Navy already makes 2.5 million from the Army-Navy game, why would they join the America-12 for less than 2 million (assuming they would lose the rights to the game)?

If they join, it's because they believe that scheduling will become impossible as an independent.

That would be a reason if true but the reality does not seem to show it. Navy will always have a schedule that will work. They auto have Notre Dame as their prime opponent, Army and Airforce as natural rivals, and for instance any MAC team likes to sign up service academies for games. On top of that there are west coast teams that like to play Navy and along with most if not all Sunbelt and CUSA schools. Don't forget schools like NMSU, Idaho, and BYU who all need schools to play. Seriously how can they not make a schedule? Navy is fortunate that they have enough name recognition that all these and more like to play them.

the money that Navy would get in the new conference from the BCS is going to be MUCH bigger than what they would get as an indy. I think indy gets about 100k per school it was(might be a smidge higher but nothing over 500k. The lowest G5 conference will make at least 12-15 million dollars- which for the new conference would be at least 1 million per school.

(03-09-2013 07:13 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 07:09 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  If Navy already makes 2.5 million from the Army-Navy game, why would they join the America-12 for less than 2 million (assuming they would lose the rights to the game)?

If they join, it's because they believe that scheduling will become impossible as an independent.

Pretty sure the service academies will never have trouble filling their schedules. But the A-12 should make it clear to Navy that the Army-Navy game can be a separate contract from the A-12 contract and thus they keep their $2.5 million. Navy also has a separate contract with CBS SportsNet for the rest of their home games and I've not seen the value that has. If it is more than the $1.8 million that the A-12 contract is then maybe Navy doesn't come. Might be best for the A-12 since they would not need to add Tulsa for a 12th. Just stay at 10 and make a little over $2 million each on the tv contract. What's wrong with that?

Navy could back out and the TV contract won't take a hit IIRC. It is set regardless of the membership names/numbers. Doesn't matter if it has Cincy and/or UCONN. Doesn't matter if it's 10 or 12.

(03-09-2013 06:51 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Ten schools with nine conference games could work out very well. How refreshing to have a conference where everyone plays each other every year!

That is what the UT AD keeps saying

CUSA plus USF. Lets do it!

(03-09-2013 05:48 PM)Tallgrass Wrote:  It was inevitable that Navy would have second thoughts and probably review their decision based on recent developments. It appears the mid-week games required by the ESPN is the back breaker for Navy and, Navy, being an attractive team, would probably be a primary target for week nite games by ESPN. Article also mentions on-line only ESPN telecasts.....hmmmm.

So throw in Navy along with UConn and Cincy (when B1G expands by two) as leaving the Nbe/A12. This mid week issue has Temple concerned also, just like Navy. Is the very small gain in the A12/ESPN tv contract sufficient to offset the probably decrease in attendance for midweek games? For Navy and Temple, my guess is no.

BIG EAST TV DEAL SET BUT QUESTIONS REMAIN FOR NAVY FOOTBALL
By Kevin Lilley, Feb. 25, 2013
Military Times: AfterAction, Your Military Sports Report
http://militarytimes.com/

"The package reportedly pays $20 million a year for football and basketball rights by the time Navy joins up; right now, the league would have 11 members in 2015, so that's about $1.8 million per school--less if the league expands to a more stable 12 teams, and even less for Navy, which wouldn't get basketball related revenue. It means less money for an entire season of conference play on TV than Navy gets from its share of the Army-Navy deal with CBS--the academies reportedly split about $5 million a year."

".....On ESPN, the Big East competes with every other major college conference for spots spread among three channels (ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU) and the ABC network---sure, UConn and Cincinnati will find a spot on Saturday afternoon or evening but will Navy-Houston be worth more ad dollars than a fourth tier SEC game? Probably not---and that could mean some on line-only broadcasts or some midweek scheduling for the Mids, and less of a national sportlight than they currently enjoy with every home game locking into the CBS Sports Network's schedule."

"When Navy's move to conference play was announced, then league commissioner John Marinatto said: "That Navy would give up 100 years of football independence speaks to the long term viability of the Big East." That was 13 months ago--Marianatto is no longer commissioner, and the Big East's long-term viability is anybody's guess. Will the Mids get enough stability, national exposure and money out of all this new media arrangement to make conference life worthwhile? Or would the ability to make your own rules when it comes to opponents, TV deals, and even kickoff times be worth a little less cash?"

As an ND fan, I can agree with and identify with the last part in bold.

I would never want ND to join any conference for football, not even for a lot more TV money.

(03-09-2013 09:39 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  CUSA plus USF. Lets do it!

Congrats. You'd have the #11 FB conference and the #15 BB conference.

(03-09-2013 09:13 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 07:13 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 07:09 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  If Navy already makes 2.5 million from the Army-Navy game, why would they join the America-12 for less than 2 million (assuming they would lose the rights to the game)?

If they join, it's because they believe that scheduling will become impossible as an independent.

Pretty sure the service academies will never have trouble filling their schedules. But the A-12 should make it clear to Navy that the Army-Navy game can be a separate contract from the A-12 contract and thus they keep their $2.5 million. Navy also has a separate contract with CBS SportsNet for the rest of their home games and I've not seen the value that has. If it is more than the $1.8 million that the A-12 contract is then maybe Navy doesn't come. Might be best for the A-12 since they would not need to add Tulsa for a 12th. Just stay at 10 and make a little over $2 million each on the tv contract. What's wrong with that?

This is the route the Nbe/A12 should go. The only bad part is UConn and Cincy will eventually be gone and, maybe USF. Throw in possible departure of Navy and can Temple survive with decreased attendance for midweek games? The Nbe knows this and knows it needs to expand just to survive....rather than forgetting about their self annoited "prestige" which got flushed down the toilet long ago. This Nbe realignment thing is causing problems without attaining any goals.

I am sure CUSA would step in and guarantee Navy games. The service academies are respected by all and no doubt CUSA, MAC, SBC, and MWC would assist Navy with nonconference scheduling. In fact, they would be honored and delighted to play Navy.

Navy will not join if forced to play mid week games. It would put too much strain on the academy way of life for the players for FB especially if they had to travel.

Navy will join if they don't have to play mid week games, and the new conference keeps their hands out of the Army / Navy game, and the proceeds and TV rights to the ND game which is their other cash cow. If the new "A-12" interferes with those three things they are history. If so the "A-12" should stay at 10 teams for a while until they are firmly on their feet. It is too early to add other teams if Navy backs out. Also you will need teams to back fill for UConn and Cinn if they leave if and when realignment kicks in again just to stay at ten teams for the conference. On deck for their replacements are school like UMass, Marshall, and S. Miss.

The "A- 12" might have to look at scheduling arraignments and bowl scheduling arraignments with Navy in the future instead of membership if all of this goes down. Scheduling arraignments and bowl arraignments with Navy and Army as independents might give the "A-12" access to the Military Bowl, the Poinsettia Bowl, and the Kraft Hunger Bowl in San Francisco which are all rotated through Navy's Bowl contracts providing they have at least a 6&6 season.

(03-10-2013 08:53 AM)panite Wrote:  Navy will not join if forced to play mid week games. It would put too much strain on the academy way of life for the players for FB especially if they had to travel.

Navy will join if they don't have to play mid week games, and the new conference keeps their hands out of the Army / Navy game, and the proceeds and TV rights to the ND game which is their other cash cow. If the new "A-12" interferes with those three things they are history. If so the "A-12" should stay at 10 teams for a while until they are firmly on their feet. It is too early to add other teams if Navy backs out. Also you will need teams to back fill for UConn and Cinn if they leave if and when realignment kicks in again. On deck for their replacements are school like UMass, Marshall, and S. Miss.

The "A- 12" might have to look at scheduling arraignments and bowl scheduling arraignments with Navy in the future instead membership if all of this goes down. Scheduling arraignments with Navy and Army as independents might give the "A-12" access to the Military Bowl, the Poinsettia Bowl, and the Kraft Hunger Bowl in San Francisco which are all rotated through Navy's Bowl contracts providing they have at least a 6&6 season.

If they keep the Military Bowl in the dump that is RFK it will never be a sought after Bowl by the Big5. It has GO5 Bowl written all over it and ECU will always be a good option for that Bowl because we have a huge alumni base in the DC Metro area plus it is only a 5hr drive for most ECU fans. If the Military Bowl gains enough support to move it to FedEx Field then the Big5 will probably want to gobble that Bowl game up for exposure in the DC TV market.

I imagine the Bowl line up will shuffle over the next couple years with all the Conference movement but at the end of the day there are still 35 Bowls and counting and you really have to wipe the bottom of the barrel to come up with enough teams to play in all of them. NBE and CUSA will get a decent amount of Bowl game access but to nothing really any good. Like most on this board I think if the Big5 eliminates the Go5 from any Bowl games involving them then we should just move to a playoff for the G05 for everybody except the team that has the miracle season and goes to a BCS Bowl game.

(03-10-2013 08:59 AM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  If the Military Bowl gains enough support to move it to FedEx Field then the Big5 will probably want to gobble that Bowl game up for exposure in the DC TV market.

I think the ACC will keep their tie-in, because it's pretty close to UVa, VT, Pitt, the NC schools, and drivable for Syracuse and BC. But no one else will touch it, so it will be an ACC vs Gang-of-Five bowl.

Quote:Like most on this board I think if the Big5 eliminates the Go5 from any Bowl games involving them then we should just move to a playoff for the G05 for everybody except the team that has the miracle season and goes to a BCS Bowl game.

I don't think power conference vs lower-FBS bowls will disappear, but they'll be very limited. Bowls that are perfectly located for one power conference, but can't attract a second power-conference team. Like, for example, the Military Bowl for the ACC or the Motor City Bowl for the Big Ten. It's an ideal or near-ideal location for one conference, but you're not going to get many Clemson fans to Detroit or Michigan State fans to DC in late December.

This would also be how the Aresco League keeps the Liberty Bowl--the Big 12 would rather have their last pick play in Dallas vs CUSA's champion than go to an old outdoor stadium in Memphis, while the SEC would rather have their last pick play the Aresco League champion in Memphis than go to an old outdoor stadium in Dallas. And add a couple of PAC vs MWC bowls in Hawaii and Las Vegas to the list.