(03-09-2013 01:09 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 05:40 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 05:17 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  If we needed schools that sponsor football, and assuming Tulsa already has an invite in hand, I would have to rate them as follows:

1. Southern Miss
2. Old Dominion
3. UMass
4. Ohio
5. Marshall

I feel like my top two candidates are much stronger than any other candidate out there. If the A12/Metro can avoid defections for 5 years, I think the list of strong candidates should grow. By then, UMass football should have grown, UNC-Charlotte football should have a few seasons under its belt, teams like Middle Tennessee and UTSA will have grown in CUSA, and certain FCS schools could be good adds if they have made the move to FBS.

Why do you rate UMass ahead of UTSA.

UMass - pitiful attendance
UTSA - 35K attendance average, semi rabid fan base
UMass - small market/poor stadium
UTSA - Large market/great stadium
UMass - No recruits
UTSA - boatloads of recruits within a car trip of SA
UTSA - No competition in market other than Spurs

UMASS is playing in a 70K stadium nearly rent free for as long as they want as long as Robert Kraft owns the Patriots and I doubt he's going to be selling anytime soon. UMASS played in 3 FCS title games (78, 98 won handily over Ga Southern and 06) only a handful of current FCS programs have more finals appearances than UMASS.

55-48 (with 7 fumbles by Georgia Southern) is handily?

(03-11-2013 09:51 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  Southern Mississippi is just giving up.

I respectfully disagree. To me, giving up = dropping football. Southern Mississippi ain't doing that anytime soon.

I know VCU doesn't play football but as a public university, they are a better fit for the A-12 than the throwback Big East. They would be the only non-football member of the A-12 too.

(03-11-2013 09:51 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  I was among the biggest fans of UT-San Antonio when we were considering a "western division" that included Boise State/SDSU, but adding UT-San Antonio now would be the death of this conference. There is only one choice now - UMass. Old Dominion would be a potential add, but just too early. Tulsa I can live with because it has had success and has some private school cache, but the fan base is just not there. Southern Mississippi is just giving up. Personally, I think we need Army if we have any chance of keeping Navy.

UTSA: 25-30k fans
UMass: 6-12k fans

UMass has a better all around sports program but UTSA can probably deliver a preXMas bowl.

(03-11-2013 09:51 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  I was among the biggest fans of UT-San Antonio when we were considering a "western division" that included Boise State/SDSU, but adding UT-San Antonio now would be the death of this conference. There is only one choice now - UMass. Old Dominion would be a potential add, but just too early. Tulsa I can live with because it has had success and has some private school cache, but the fan base is just not there. Southern Mississippi is just giving up. Personally, I think we need Army if we have any chance of keeping Navy.

The future of this unnamed conference is the south and east. The northeast is gone and its time to just acknowledge that. When UConn and Cinci are poached, the northeast will effectively be gone. We could add all the UMass's, Buffalo's, and Stoney Brooks we want and it wont amount to anything.

UMass has games were less than 8K fans showed up. The northeast is not a football crazy region and when they do watch football, its not the second or third tier schools that draw thier attention. When UConn and Cinci leave its time to simply realize the northeast has been lost and react by regrouping in the southeast and south. The unnamed conference can sustain a reasonably decent league by buidling a footprint that extends from the mid-Atlantic states, pushes south to Florida, and then sweeps across the the southern half of the US to Texas.

The reality is that theres simply nothing left to pick from in the northeast and there isnt that strong of an audience there anyway. There are however some schools with potential in the south---S Miss has a proven program. ODU and UTSA are new FBS schools that may be worth looking at in the future. Even LaTech, Texas State, and some of the other CUSA schools might be able to gain traction in future years. In the northeast, the passion for football just doesnt seem to be there to make that happen. If the unnamed league stays in the hard headedly reamains committed to the northeast then the future of the conference needs to be basketball and not football.

Here is what the Aresco Conference will look like on 7-1-14:
UConn
Temple
ECU (right now FB only)
Tulane
SMU
Houston
Memphis
Cincy
USF
UCF

If the powers that be insist on 12 FB schools my approach would be:
1) Add Tulsa and Southern Mississippi to get to the required dozen FB schools. Bring them both in as all sports.
2) Since that only provides 11 BB schools, some consideration is needed here. Some would offer ECU the all sports invitation but I would argue VCU brings a better BB brand into the conference. I also fully realize such an addition goes down that "BB only" trail that turned out to be a disaster for the Big East. But with only one BB school in the conference and their annual cut only 30% of the TV money - about $600,000 - they would accept it. Keep in mind the A-10 is about to get decimated by the C-7 defections. ECU would earn the 70% FB cut, about $1.4mm each year.
3) The next four schools to consider once future raids go down in 1-2 years would be Marshall, UMass (state school), Ohio (decent athletics and AAU member), NIU (Chicago), UAB, and perhaps UTEP (a long way out there BUT if UTSA is considered, why not UTEP??)
4) Future considerations - hopefully 5 years + down the road - would be FAU, FIU, Middle Tennessee, UTSA, ODU, Toledo, La Tech. The reason La Tech is on the 2nd level of consideration is bringing them in puts three conference schools within about a 100 mile radius - Tulane, La Tech, and Southern Miss.

What is the drop dead date for the A12 to add Tulsa for this upcoming year? Or are they going to be targeted for 2014??

Umass adds a lot of potential for me. They will get a big bump in attendance switching a Mac schedule. They also have a budget of $27 million with almost no conference revenue share.

I would go Army/Navy and UMass/VCU hybrid. Or just Navy/Tulsa with no Bball only schools.

(03-08-2013 07:01 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 06:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  That's crazy talk. S Miss is way way way ahead of Old Dominion. OD has potential, but there are plenty of schools way ahead of them in line.

I figured there would be plenty of schools ahead of Old Dominion, as well, until I took a quick look at the candidates out there and how they measure up.

Some quick statistics on Old Dominion:
2012 Football Attendance - 20,037
2012 Basketball Attendance - 7,142 (73rd in nation)
2011-2012 Director's Cup Ranking - 79th in nation
4 NCAA Basketball bids in previous 8 seasons
#43 TV market (Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News)

Southern Miss has better name recognition, proven football success, and rivalries with current members, so I would choose them first, but I could not find a better second choice than ODU.

The reason I would go with Old Dominion first is to help ease the travel concerns raised by Temple and maybe UConn. It seems that any Northeast expansion, such as to UMass, will be blocked. That means the second best option is to look in the Mid-Atlantic Region for a school somewhat close to East Carolina. In the future, if UConn or Cincinnati ever moves to the ACC, that will be the time to add Southern Mississippi. One step at a time.

(03-11-2013 01:07 PM)boss man Wrote:  Here is what the Aresco Conference will look like on 7-1-14:
UConn
Temple
ECU (right now FB only)
Tulane
SMU
Houston
Memphis
Cincy
USF
UCF

If the powers that be insist on 12 FB schools my approach would be:
1) Add Tulsa and Southern Mississippi to get to the required dozen FB schools. Bring them both in as all sports.
2) Since that only provides 11 BB schools, some consideration is needed here. Some would offer ECU the all sports invitation but I would argue VCU brings a better BB brand into the conference. I also fully realize such an addition goes down that "BB only" trail that turned out to be a disaster for the Big East. But with only one BB school in the conference and their annual cut only 30% of the TV money - about $600,000 - they would accept it. Keep in mind the A-10 is about to get decimated by the C-7 defections. ECU would earn the 70% FB cut, about $1.4mm each year.
3) The next four schools to consider once future raids go down in 1-2 years would be Marshall, UMass (state school), Ohio (decent athletics and AAU member), NIU (Chicago), UAB, and perhaps UTEP (a long way out there BUT if UTSA is considered, why not UTEP??)
4) Future considerations - hopefully 5 years + down the road - would be FAU, FIU, Middle Tennessee, UTSA, ODU, Toledo, La Tech. The reason La Tech is on the 2nd level of consideration is bringing them in puts three conference schools within about a 100 mile radius - Tulane, La Tech, and Southern Miss.

1) Your assuming there is no Navy. If Navy is here you use VCU to balance the Navy football only membership.

2) If Navy is not coming and S Miss is the replacement---Theres no way they are not going to give ECU an all sports membership. You cant tell ECU they cant have an all sports membership. You just dont treat conference partners like that. Im fine with adding VCU AND Umass (or even ODU) as olympic only members on top of the current membership. I'd take a look at Wichita too. Yes adding the extra olympic teams will cause the pay to go down a bit---but the pay isnt crap anyway and it will be better in the long run for recruting if the league looks good on TV and lands lots of NCAA basketball bids. Do that, and the tv money will be better next time around for our basketball product.

(03-11-2013 08:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 01:07 PM)boss man Wrote:  Here is what the Aresco Conference will look like on 7-1-14:
UConn
Temple
ECU (right now FB only)
Tulane
SMU
Houston
Memphis
Cincy
USF
UCF

If the powers that be insist on 12 FB schools my approach would be:
1) Add Tulsa and Southern Mississippi to get to the required dozen FB schools. Bring them both in as all sports.
2) Since that only provides 11 BB schools, some consideration is needed here. Some would offer ECU the all sports invitation but I would argue VCU brings a better BB brand into the conference. I also fully realize such an addition goes down that "BB only" trail that turned out to be a disaster for the Big East. But with only one BB school in the conference and their annual cut only 30% of the TV money - about $600,000 - they would accept it. Keep in mind the A-10 is about to get decimated by the C-7 defections. ECU would earn the 70% FB cut, about $1.4mm each year.
3) The next four schools to consider once future raids go down in 1-2 years would be Marshall, UMass (state school), Ohio (decent athletics and AAU member), NIU (Chicago), UAB, and perhaps UTEP (a long way out there BUT if UTSA is considered, why not UTEP??)
4) Future considerations - hopefully 5 years + down the road - would be FAU, FIU, Middle Tennessee, UTSA, ODU, Toledo, La Tech. The reason La Tech is on the 2nd level of consideration is bringing them in puts three conference schools within about a 100 mile radius - Tulane, La Tech, and Southern Miss.

1) Your assuming there is no Navy. If Navy is here you use VCU to balance the Navy football only membership.

2) If Navy is not coming and S Miss is the replacement---Theres no way they are not going to give ECU an all sports membership. You cant tell ECU they cant have an all sports membership. You just dont treat conference partners like that. Im fine with adding VCU AND Umass (or even ODU) as olympic only members on top of the current membership. I'd take a look at Wichita too. Yes adding the extra olympic teams will cause the pay to go down a bit---but the pay isnt crap anyway and it will be better in the long run for recruting if the league looks good on TV and lands lots of NCAA basketball bids. Do that, and the tv money will be better next time around for our basketball product.

The only way that UMass (or ODU for that matter), move to A12, is if it's for all sports due to the rule that you cannot have your FBS team in one conference, and your olympic sports in another conference that sponsors FBS. So that rules them out.

(03-11-2013 10:47 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 08:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 01:07 PM)boss man Wrote:  Here is what the Aresco Conference will look like on 7-1-14:
UConn
Temple
ECU (right now FB only)
Tulane
SMU
Houston
Memphis
Cincy
USF
UCF

If the powers that be insist on 12 FB schools my approach would be:
1) Add Tulsa and Southern Mississippi to get to the required dozen FB schools. Bring them both in as all sports.
2) Since that only provides 11 BB schools, some consideration is needed here. Some would offer ECU the all sports invitation but I would argue VCU brings a better BB brand into the conference. I also fully realize such an addition goes down that "BB only" trail that turned out to be a disaster for the Big East. But with only one BB school in the conference and their annual cut only 30% of the TV money - about $600,000 - they would accept it. Keep in mind the A-10 is about to get decimated by the C-7 defections. ECU would earn the 70% FB cut, about $1.4mm each year.
3) The next four schools to consider once future raids go down in 1-2 years would be Marshall, UMass (state school), Ohio (decent athletics and AAU member), NIU (Chicago), UAB, and perhaps UTEP (a long way out there BUT if UTSA is considered, why not UTEP??)
4) Future considerations - hopefully 5 years + down the road - would be FAU, FIU, Middle Tennessee, UTSA, ODU, Toledo, La Tech. The reason La Tech is on the 2nd level of consideration is bringing them in puts three conference schools within about a 100 mile radius - Tulane, La Tech, and Southern Miss.

1) Your assuming there is no Navy. If Navy is here you use VCU to balance the Navy football only membership.

2) If Navy is not coming and S Miss is the replacement---Theres no way they are not going to give ECU an all sports membership. You cant tell ECU they cant have an all sports membership. You just dont treat conference partners like that. Im fine with adding VCU AND Umass (or even ODU) as olympic only members on top of the current membership. I'd take a look at Wichita too. Yes adding the extra olympic teams will cause the pay to go down a bit---but the pay isnt crap anyway and it will be better in the long run for recruting if the league looks good on TV and lands lots of NCAA basketball bids. Do that, and the tv money will be better next time around for our basketball product.

The only way that UMass (or ODU for that matter), move to A12, is if it's for all sports due to the rule that you cannot have your FBS team in one conference, and your olympic sports in another conference that sponsors FBS. So that rules them out.

There is no such rule. Some conferences have a rule that prevents this activity but the NCAA does not.

USM would be my top choice. Established, historically successful in baseball, hoops and FB. Plus they have established rivalries with many nBE/A12 already.

(03-12-2013 11:18 AM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  USM would be my top choice. Established, historically successful in baseball, hoops and FB. Plus they have established rivalries with many nBE/A12 already.

Old Dominion first to help UConn, Temple, and for that matter East Carolina with travel. Southern Mississippi can later replace UConn or Cincinnati.

That sounds pretty smart, get those tractor trailers rolling in order to get eqpt to the games. Old Dominion Truck lines is probably a very good choice.

(03-11-2013 12:07 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 12:10 PM)soapy smith Wrote:  

(03-09-2013 09:49 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I'd consider Toledo too. Large school, great medical and law and engineering programs, located in northern Ohio or BIG country and beautiful campus located in Sylvania.


http://www.utoledo.edu/

Agree with this. While I generally like what Ohio U. has to offer, and it does sound like a flagship, at least, I think Toledo might be a better match. It's urban, a bigger market, easier to get to, a better recruiting area (Northern Ohio, Indiana, Michigan), has a better recent football history, and takes its athletics pretty seriously. It just seems like a little more of a player.

The trump card Ohio has in the realignment discussion is its basketball arena. It's 13,000 seats and averages about 9,000 in MAC play every year.

In football, Ohio has been to 4 straight bowl games and 3 Division titles since 2006 so I'm not seeing where Toledo has a better recent football history at all. Despite the vastly larger market Ohio outdraws Toledo at the gate.

Budget and coaching salaries for FB/BB....Ohio is top's in the MAC. Again not sure how Toledo is more of a player.

Toledo has been one of the best football schools in the MAC for a long time.