(03-08-2013 11:50 AM)RowdyRoost Wrote:  There's a massive difference between 2004 and now. In 2004, Big East membership got you a seat at the money table. That's not the case in 2013. ECU will see no difference. They will see little, if any, money that really helps bring the program up.

I don't say this as a "bitter" Southern Miss fan. Cause I'd say the same thing tomorrow if USM were invited. We can try to maintain in C-USA or try to maintain in the America - 12. Neither conference gives us a true edge to improve.

Having said that... yes, the America -12 has the better teams at the moment. But I think growth potential is about maxed out for that conference.

It's certainly not maxed out by comparison. You look at the growth in budgets and support at schools like ECU and UCF compared to USM and it's not even close the last 5 or 10 years. There is usually a direct correlation between money and success and that's the most important number for the future, not records from 5 or 10 years ago, it's the budgets of the schools in the conferences. Like in 2004 the better off programs have aligned and are going to be better off.

It doesn't even have to boil down with what moneys the conference can supply when every program in A-12 is far better off finacially anyway with what they are generating, and already growing at a better rate which will help them be more compeditive in the future. I think N-CUSA has one school with a 30 million dollar budget and it's ODU , and even that is a sham glossed over by 80% student fee's.

(03-08-2013 11:16 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Problem here is of the two programs proping most of that success up one is leaving and the other just went 0-12 and has a rookie coach this year.

There were a lot of threads like this back in 2004 two about how CUSA was going to be better off or comparable to the Big East. At the time Marshall was still riding high and UTEP seemed like an up and comer, UAB was even solid. Different circumstances maybe, but not really. The conference aren't really comparable at all when Tulsa leaves. Money usually wins out and the new BE still has the programs with more of it and are willing to spend.

Money does usually win out, but I don't think it is fair to say only the BE teams have money they are willing to spend. UNT has spent a ton of money on their athletics in recent years and their plan calls for millions more to be spent on building new facilities (including a $12 million baseball stadium ). Charlotte & ODU are also not afraid to spend.


I can't really speak for the rest because I don't really know much about them.

(03-08-2013 12:04 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  Dear GAWD, balance of what power?

We are all afterthoughts fighting over scraps.

The ones they seem to think still exists from the Miami, WVU, VT days of that conference. Lets be honest, both conferences blow. Theirs will get worse once UConn and Cincinnati bolt.

(03-08-2013 12:16 PM)Niner National Wrote:  Money does usually win out, but I don't think it is fair to say only the BE teams have money they are willing to spend. UNT has spent a ton of money on their athletics in recent years and their plan calls for millions more to be spent on building new facilities (including a $12 million baseball stadium ). Charlotte & ODU are also not afraid to spend.


I can't really speak for the rest because I don't really know much about them.

Like I said above I think ODU is the only school with a 30 million dollar budget in CUSA and their budget isn't even healthy with what they get from student fee's. Most of CUSA's schools are low 20's high teens last I checked. I believe all the schools in the A-12 will have 30+ million dollar budgets. That's a pretty significant difference in ability to support your programs yearly even beyond the facility improvements.

I guess pretty soon we don't have worry if we won games on the field or court, but the new way of scoring is how much money. I can see it now, College X had no points, no first downs, no yards but brought in 10 million dollars of TV money and a gate of half a million so in spite of the other team have 700 yards rushing 500 passing, College X is now 1-0 due to money. It has gotten stupid with this money stuff folks.

When looking at ODU and Charlotte ticket sales, keep in mind Charlotte fans aren't just paying for season ticket cost, we had to pay for seat licenses ($1,000+ per seat). Tickets would be long gone if it was just the cost of season tickets.

(03-08-2013 11:24 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Why, we don't need other fans to fill our 50k seat stadium.

Doesn't matter you guys still cry about Marshall be your nearest conference opponent.

At the risk of offending some, outside of Memphis we have upgraded for the most part basketball wise. Football may be a wash. It's all subjective. I am happy to be associated with all the new commers.

(03-08-2013 12:37 PM)wh49er Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 11:24 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Why, we don't need other fans to fill our 50k seat stadium.

Doesn't matter you guys still cry about Marshall be your nearest conference opponent.

I think that was more admin than fans.

(03-08-2013 12:37 PM)wh49er Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 11:24 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Why, we don't need other fans to fill our 50k seat stadium.

Doesn't matter you guys still cry about Marshall be your nearest conference opponent.

That was Holland, and he's gone now. I think most pirate fans were furious when he helped get you guys and ODU to the same conference and was still even trying to get App State in. Most of us just want to play against the best compeititon we can. Distance is the one of the last things I care about. Infact I don't want to have to recruit in the same conference against anyone under our noses.

(03-08-2013 11:04 AM)baruna falls Wrote:  What does it matter. If Marshall fans are happy staying in Conf USA then great. ECU and others left because they believed they were better off being in the same league together. It's that simple.

Be careful of an opinion......there are those who will give you negative points......Pirates Supporting Pirates

(03-08-2013 12:59 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 12:37 PM)wh49er Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 11:24 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Why, we don't need other fans to fill our 50k seat stadium.

Doesn't matter you guys still cry about Marshall be your nearest conference opponent.

I think that was more admin than fans.

Yeah that was a Holland position, and one that was extremely unpopular here. I can actually see his long term vision, but he was trying to sell that to a fan base that was furious at how realignment turned out and it didn't go well for him.

(03-08-2013 01:10 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 12:59 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 12:37 PM)wh49er Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 11:24 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Why, we don't need other fans to fill our 50k seat stadium.

Doesn't matter you guys still cry about Marshall be your nearest conference opponent.

I think that was more admin than fans.

Yeah that was a Holland position, and one that was extremely unpopular here. I can actually see his long term vision, but he was trying to sell that to a fan base that was furious at how realignment turned out and it didn't go well for him.

hard to beleive with fans as reasonable as jonesin

(03-08-2013 12:14 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 11:50 AM)RowdyRoost Wrote:  There's a massive difference between 2004 and now. In 2004, Big East membership got you a seat at the money table. That's not the case in 2013. ECU will see no difference. They will see little, if any, money that really helps bring the program up.

I don't say this as a "bitter" Southern Miss fan. Cause I'd say the same thing tomorrow if USM were invited. We can try to maintain in C-USA or try to maintain in the America - 12. Neither conference gives us a true edge to improve.

Having said that... yes, the America -12 has the better teams at the moment. But I think growth potential is about maxed out for that conference.

It's certainly not maxed out by comparison. You look at the growth in budgets and support at schools like ECU and UCF compared to USM and it's not even close the last 5 or 10 years. There is usually a direct correlation between money and success and that's the most important number for the future, not records from 5 or 10 years ago, it's the budgets of the schools in the conferences. Like in 2004 the better off programs have aligned and are going to be better off.

It doesn't even have to boil down with what moneys the conference can supply when every program in A-12 is far better off finacially anyway with what they are generating, and already growing at a better rate which will help them be more compeditive in the future. I think N-CUSA has one school with a 30 million dollar budget and it's ODU , and even that is a sham glossed over by 80% student fee's.

Be careful of opinion.....there are those who will give negative points....Pirates supporting Pirates

(03-08-2013 01:10 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  it didn't go well for him.

Bingo. I think it got him retired early from here.

(03-08-2013 01:13 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  hard to beleive with fans as reasonable as jonesin

How is it unreasonable to not want to help start up football programs like ODU 2 hours away when you would be a direct compeditior in the same conference. Hopefully this next AD is the hardass Holland should have been to you guys during realignment.

If you want to do a true projection of the future, use future nonconference schedules and find a metric to predict the relative value of each team as well as CUSA's and Murrica12's chances of winning each game. Each conference is always going to finish .500 every year in conference...and all the power conferences are going to care about is whichever team is 8-0 in conference and who looks the best nonconference. Sun Belt can make the access game under those rules.

(03-08-2013 01:17 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 01:13 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  hard to beleive with fans as reasonable as jonesin

How is it unreasonable to not want to help start up football programs like ODU 2 hours away when you would be a direct compeditior in the same conference. Hopefully this next AD is the hardass Holland should have been.

VCU has been our biggest rival for years, plenty of mutual hate, campuses 90 miles apart, competing for the same recruits. But it's only really been a good rivalry because we both were succesful. We as fans can laugh at them when they lose (or opposite as the case may be) but the truth is our mutual success has helped both of us succeed.

I think more than likely most ECU fans see us as below them and not worth the time to develop. You'd rather play up to VT or SC or the like right? Holland apparantly saw it differently.

But my main point was really stilljonesin is kind of a d*ck just based on past experience and if you're choosing who to listen to between him and Holland on athletic dept admin, it's a no brainer.

(03-08-2013 01:14 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(03-08-2013 01:10 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  it didn't go well for him.

Bingo. I think it got him retired early from here.

Yeah that's the rumor. He picked a bad time to start pushing for teams that the majority of fans (and a few with deep pockets in particular) didn't want.

Other than StillJonesing and maybe a very, very few others, you pirate fans were banging the ever-living stuffing over "travel issues", to say other-wise is just a bald-face lie.