I don't know why anyone ever took this discussion personally.

VCU was NEVER considered for addition into this conference. It has nothing to do with them as a basketball program. They are a very good basketball program.

Why does it have to go any further than that? They just don't fit. Everyone wishes them continued success.

(03-07-2013 01:18 AM)Title Wrote:  I don't know why anyone ever took this discussion personally.

VCU was NEVER considered for addition into this conference. It has nothing to do with them as a basketball program. They are a very good basketball program.

Why does it have to go any further than that? They just don't fit. Everyone wishes them continued success.

Do you have ANY proof of this at all??? Just one reporter saying that. Because even 2-3 weeks ago, VCU was being mentioned quite a lot as an option.

(03-07-2013 01:18 AM)Title Wrote:  I don't know why anyone ever took this discussion personally.

VCU was NEVER considered for addition into this conference. It has nothing to do with them as a basketball program. They are a very good basketball program.

Why does it have to go any further than that? They just don't fit. Everyone wishes them continued success.

You need to ask some GTown fans why.

(03-06-2013 08:00 PM)BillEsq Wrote:  Listen i'm not knocking VCU like you guys are knocking SLU. That final four run was awesome. Hell i hate duke, im glad they beat them too. but other than those few things what have they done? they have muddled around low ranking conferences.

The Sun Belt was not a low-ranking conference in the 1980s. They had UAB, who went to the Sweet 16 in 1981 and the Elite 8 in 1982, they had VCU, WKU and Old Dominion all going to the tournament multiple times and getting to the second round. It was a 2-bid league on average.

Quote:SLU has always played against the best and has a winning record doing so. There is no reason to think that a switch to the c7 will change that- as good as you guys think you are your no different that what we have been playing over the years. Therefore at worst SLU will compete.

This is true.

Quote:VCU has never had long standing success outside of playing in minor conferences.

11 tournament bids in 30-odd years, 5 NCAA wins not counting 2011.

Quote:They rarely if ever play a SOS under 100.

You've been challenged on this. Source?

Quote:I'm saying at worst SLU will compete - dayton will compete- Creighton will compete -

No, at worst, one or more of these schools will fall flat on their faces and Depaul all over the conference. Do you have any data suggesting that SLU is a better add in 2013 than DePaul was in 2003?

Quote:VCU has only recently been able to do so. in fact this is there first reg season in 20 years with a SOS under 100. This is VCU at their best .

Again, your SOS numbers have been challenged.

[quote]If you want to build a strong league you get teams that at their worst can compete with you. Not some team that outside of an at best 5 year period you would have used as a buy game.

I don't think you use tournament teams as buy games. And for the past 35 years, VCU has averaged one bid every 3 years.

What makes me laugh is that the only official announcement the B7 has made were their intention on leaving the football schools. They have been so tight lip about information since then that it has annoyed the media on not getting direct info. The only information that has been consistent was Butler and Xavier that's it. Yet, all we get from Media reports are according to sources blah blah blah. You know, some of the so call media experts themselves don't even know what's really going on. And yet, we have people in here who are so quick to assume that VCU is not in discussion or Gonzaga etc..How do you know for sure? Are you attending meetings with the B7 or just playing the guessing game like the great FEINSTEIN(Big Georgetown hater and ACC ass kisser) who causally throws out terms like "sources" to make it seem his story has merit? Listen, every one on this message board are entitle to their respective opinion and that's fine and all. However, please don't try to dismiss other people's opinion like you have direct information and known for sure which schools are getting invited. Plain and simple, nobody knows for sure including the Media. Hoya fans are not taking things personal in regards to VCU. However, its posters like Redman who are knocking other posters views when it centers on schools not on their list. Another thing, this catholic or private garbage being the main criteria to join the Big East is pure none sense. There have been people within the Big East who were directly quoted like JT3 that stated you don't have to be catholic or private to be a possible member of this league. But hey, since ESPN are the one's who created the term, Catholic 7, then everyone just went with it and assume this was the direction we were headed, lovely...

(03-07-2013 12:16 AM)bostonspider Wrote:  Richmond is 9 appearances, 8 wins.... Just saying.

Didn't realize the one in 1984 included a win in the "Opening Round" to get to the first round. My mistake.

(03-07-2013 01:18 AM)Title Wrote:  I don't know why anyone ever took this discussion personally.

VCU was NEVER considered for addition into this conference. It has nothing to do with them as a basketball program. They are a very good basketball program.

Why does it have to go any further than that? They just don't fit. Everyone wishes them continued success.

I'm not saying the final result will prove you wrong, because I don't have anything that says the teams will be anything but Xavier, Butler, Creighton, SLU, Butler.

But you are acting like you have sources on the inside saying that VCU was never discussed. And frankly, you don't. Your personal opinion is that VCU was never discussed because they are a public school, but I haven't seen anything that says the opinion is shared by Fox, or the school's presidents and ADs.

The biggest problem with public schools is football. Virtually every public school in the nation, especially those of VCU's size, have or want to have an FBS football program. The only other exception I can think of is my home school, Wichita State. I don't know whether easier recruiting or the necessity of sharing information is a factor that would keep VCU out, but I know that the Presidents never want to fight the FBS menace again. VCU, however, is less likely to leave the conference for football than the members and potential candidates with FCS football now.

Anyway, I have nothing that says VCU was or was not in the discussions. But neither do you. You cannot definitely state that VCU was never considered unless you can show sources saying exactly that.

(03-07-2013 01:18 AM)Title Wrote:  VCU was NEVER considered for addition into this conference. It has nothing to do with them as a basketball program.

This is 100% wrong. On both counts.

(03-06-2013 11:49 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 10:37 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Too bad we're looking for something more long term than "the next few years".

I hear this sentiment every time VCU is brought up. It appears people think they will be worse long-term than other options, but I have seen nothing that says that. In fact, VCU has had more consistent success than several other candidates even if you ignore their Final Four run.

Ignoring VCU's Final Four, they have 10 appearances and 5 wins since 1980. Here is what everyone else has done in that time:

Dayton: 7 appearances, 4 wins
Saint Louis: 5 appearances, 2 wins
Creighton: 11 appearances, 4 wins
Richmond: 9 appearances, 7 wins
Wichita State: 6 appearances, 5 wins *homer inclusion

Get the picture? They aren't a random spark like George Mason. They have a good young coach, but he isn't the only reason they've had success. They've gone to the NCAA tournament with 5 different coaches under that time period, with 3 different coaches getting wins.

If you are going by consistent success, than VCU is going to be your best bet outside of Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga.

True story: VCU is one of 3 programs in the country with at least 24 wins the last 7 seasons. The other two are Kansas and Memphis, of which VCU is 2-0 against. Too bad [you're] looking for something more long term than "the next few years". lol

(03-07-2013 10:41 AM)thegalen Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 11:49 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 10:37 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Too bad we're looking for something more long term than "the next few years".

I hear this sentiment every time VCU is brought up. It appears people think they will be worse long-term than other options, but I have seen nothing that says that. In fact, VCU has had more consistent success than several other candidates even if you ignore their Final Four run.

Ignoring VCU's Final Four, they have 10 appearances and 5 wins since 1980. Here is what everyone else has done in that time:

Dayton: 7 appearances, 4 wins
Saint Louis: 5 appearances, 2 wins
Creighton: 11 appearances, 4 wins
Richmond: 9 appearances, 7 wins
Wichita State: 6 appearances, 5 wins *homer inclusion

Get the picture? They aren't a random spark like George Mason. They have a good young coach, but he isn't the only reason they've had success. They've gone to the NCAA tournament with 5 different coaches under that time period, with 3 different coaches getting wins.

If you are going by consistent success, than VCU is going to be your best bet outside of Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga.

True story: VCU is one of 3 programs in the country with at least 24 wins the last 7 seasons. The other two are Kansas and Memphis, of which VCU is 2-0 against. Too bad [you're] looking for something more long term than "the next few years". lol

Memphis has done it since UofL, Cincy, Marquette, DePaul, St. Louis etc all left CUSA and VCU did it in a weak CAA. No way VCU does that in a top 5 league.

(03-07-2013 11:17 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Memphis has done it since UofL, Cincy, Marquette, DePaul, St. Louis etc all left CUSA and VCU did it in a weak CAA. No way VCU does that in a top 5 league.

Keep spinnin'

Gary Parrish says VCU is out

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...ant-league

You really need reading comprehension:
3. Why isn't VCU considered a likely addition?

The fact that VCU isn't a Catholic institution isn't a deal-breaker, but it is a disadvantage. Beyond that, it's clear the decision-makers are skeptical if VCU has true national appeal and staying power, meaning they probably think what's currently happening in Richmond has more to do with Shaka Smart than anything else. In other words, what happens if Smart leaves? Would VCU slip and then look like a bad addition? A string of successful coaching hires -- Jeff Capel and Anthony Grant preceded Smart and did well, you know? -- suggests VCU would probably find a new coach and be OK (even if former athletic director Norwood Teague is now at Minnesota). But I probably believe that more than the powers-that-be believe that. So VCU will likely remain on the outside looking in.

sure doesn't read that VCU is definitely out, now does it?

(03-07-2013 01:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  You really need reading comprehension:
3. Why isn't VCU considered a likely addition?

The fact that VCU isn't a Catholic institution isn't a deal-breaker, but it is a disadvantage. Beyond that, it's clear the decision-makers are skeptical if VCU has true national appeal and staying power, meaning they probably think what's currently happening in Richmond has more to do with Shaka Smart than anything else. In other words, what happens if Smart leaves? Would VCU slip and then look like a bad addition? A string of successful coaching hires -- Jeff Capel and Anthony Grant preceded Smart and did well, you know? -- suggests VCU would probably find a new coach and be OK (even if former athletic director Norwood Teague is now at Minnesota). But I probably believe that more than the powers-that-be believe that. So VCU will likely remain on the outside looking in.

sure doesn't read that VCU is definitely out, now does it?

Yup, when I read that it screams VCU is definitely on the short list. Thanks for setting me straight.

(03-07-2013 01:06 PM)Billikens88 Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 01:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  You really need reading comprehension:
3. Why isn't VCU considered a likely addition?

The fact that VCU isn't a Catholic institution isn't a deal-breaker, but it is a disadvantage. Beyond that, it's clear the decision-makers are skeptical if VCU has true national appeal and staying power, meaning they probably think what's currently happening in Richmond has more to do with Shaka Smart than anything else. In other words, what happens if Smart leaves? Would VCU slip and then look like a bad addition? A string of successful coaching hires -- Jeff Capel and Anthony Grant preceded Smart and did well, you know? -- suggests VCU would probably find a new coach and be OK (even if former athletic director Norwood Teague is now at Minnesota). But I probably believe that more than the powers-that-be believe that. So VCU will likely remain on the outside looking in.

sure doesn't read that VCU is definitely out, now does it?

Yup, when I read that it scream VCU is definitely on the short list. Thanks for setting me straight.

It's not likely, but it's not definite like you posted now is it? Didn't think so buddy.

(03-07-2013 11:17 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 10:41 AM)thegalen Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 11:49 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 10:37 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Too bad we're looking for something more long term than "the next few years".

I hear this sentiment every time VCU is brought up. It appears people think they will be worse long-term than other options, but I have seen nothing that says that. In fact, VCU has had more consistent success than several other candidates even if you ignore their Final Four run.

Ignoring VCU's Final Four, they have 10 appearances and 5 wins since 1980. Here is what everyone else has done in that time:

Dayton: 7 appearances, 4 wins
Saint Louis: 5 appearances, 2 wins
Creighton: 11 appearances, 4 wins
Richmond: 9 appearances, 7 wins
Wichita State: 6 appearances, 5 wins *homer inclusion

Get the picture? They aren't a random spark like George Mason. They have a good young coach, but he isn't the only reason they've had success. They've gone to the NCAA tournament with 5 different coaches under that time period, with 3 different coaches getting wins.

If you are going by consistent success, than VCU is going to be your best bet outside of Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga.

True story: VCU is one of 3 programs in the country with at least 24 wins the last 7 seasons. The other two are Kansas and Memphis, of which VCU is 2-0 against. Too bad [you're] looking for something more long term than "the next few years". lol

Memphis has done it since UofL, Cincy, Marquette, DePaul, St. Louis etc all left CUSA and VCU did it in a weak CAA. No way VCU does that in a top 5 league.

VCU did it this year, their first year in the A10 with also a tough non-conference schedule. And the year VCU went to the Final 4 they beat Wake Forest, UCLA, USC, Georgetown, Purdue, Florida State and Kansas.

How many C7 schools have won 24 games for 7 consecutive years? And VCU's streak is still in tact. What exactly has St. John's accomplished in the last 7 years? That should be a quick list to produce.

Other than Marquette, Villanova and Georgetown what successes has the other 4 C7 schools had the last 7 years? Not much.

If the reason VCU is excluded is because we are a public school, then that's fine. But don't bash VCU's basketball history/success. VCU is clearly an upgrade to the new conference compared to Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence and DePaul.

Regarding the Butler poster and some of his elitist comments he's made since he's sure Butler made the C7 cut, might I remind you that VCU still has a shot at first place in the A10 regular season while Butler is fighting to stay out of 5th place. Oh, and there was that 32 point beat down last week Butler had to a school not deserving of a C7 invite.

I'm hoping Butler loses tonight and this weekend- finishes 7th and then gets their brains blasted in the QF just to see that beatdown yet again.

(03-07-2013 01:07 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 01:06 PM)Billikens88 Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 01:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  You really need reading comprehension:
3. Why isn't VCU considered a likely addition?

The fact that VCU isn't a Catholic institution isn't a deal-breaker, but it is a disadvantage. Beyond that, it's clear the decision-makers are skeptical if VCU has true national appeal and staying power, meaning they probably think what's currently happening in Richmond has more to do with Shaka Smart than anything else. In other words, what happens if Smart leaves? Would VCU slip and then look like a bad addition? A string of successful coaching hires -- Jeff Capel and Anthony Grant preceded Smart and did well, you know? -- suggests VCU would probably find a new coach and be OK (even if former athletic director Norwood Teague is now at Minnesota). But I probably believe that more than the powers-that-be believe that. So VCU will likely remain on the outside looking in.

sure doesn't read that VCU is definitely out, now does it?

Yup, when I read that it scream VCU is definitely on the short list. Thanks for setting me straight.

It's not likely, but it's not definite like you posted now is it? Didn't think so buddy.

haha, man. You are really reaching for straws here with the whole VCU is in. I am not sure how much more clear Gary Parrish, et al, need to make it that VCU is not getting in. I think you will still be banging the VCU drums even after it is officially announced VCU is not joining them... "Oh no they are in, they will come to their senses, believe me that wasn't the 'officialy, official' announcement".

(03-07-2013 01:15 PM)Billikens88 Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 01:07 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 01:06 PM)Billikens88 Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 01:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  You really need reading comprehension:
3. Why isn't VCU considered a likely addition?

The fact that VCU isn't a Catholic institution isn't a deal-breaker, but it is a disadvantage. Beyond that, it's clear the decision-makers are skeptical if VCU has true national appeal and staying power, meaning they probably think what's currently happening in Richmond has more to do with Shaka Smart than anything else. In other words, what happens if Smart leaves? Would VCU slip and then look like a bad addition? A string of successful coaching hires -- Jeff Capel and Anthony Grant preceded Smart and did well, you know? -- suggests VCU would probably find a new coach and be OK (even if former athletic director Norwood Teague is now at Minnesota). But I probably believe that more than the powers-that-be believe that. So VCU will likely remain on the outside looking in.

sure doesn't read that VCU is definitely out, now does it?

Yup, when I read that it scream VCU is definitely on the short list. Thanks for setting me straight.

It's not likely, but it's not definite like you posted now is it? Didn't think so buddy.

haha, man. You are really reaching for straws here with the whole VCU is in. I am not sure how much more clear Gary Parrish, et al, need to make it that VCU is not getting in. I think you will still be banging the VCU drums even after it is officially announced VCU is not joining them... "Oh no they are in, they will come to their senses, believe me that wasn't the 'officialy, official' announcement".

Did Gary Parrish say they were out? No. You are the one who out and out LIED about what Parrish said- not me. Until it's announced- surprises can(and often times) DO happen.

I believe the main issue with VCU, even more than them being huge and public, is that they are probably the #5-6 school in their own state in college athletics - automatically behind Va Tech, UVA, and JMU - and really won't be able to compete long-term equally for attention/recruits/fans in their own state. UConn when they joined was at least the flagship state uni in Connecticut.

The other members:

Villanova - 3rd at worst behind Pitt and PSU.
Georgetown - #1 in DC and #2 in Maryland. Probably #3 in Virginia at worst if they crossed the river.
SLU - #2 behind Mizzou
Marquette - #2 behind Wiscy
Creighton - #2 behind Nebraska (and #1 for basketball easily)
Butler - #4, but the only state with ND. ND would probably be a secondary/tertiary team in a lot of other states esp in the NE. But I'm only counting schools inside your own state with this.
Xavier - #3 behind Cincy (not by that much fwiw) and OSU.
Providence - #1
Seton Hall - #2 behind Rutgers
St. John's - #2 behind Cuse. #1 in NYC
DePaul - #2 behind Illinois. Northwestern has never been to an NCAA, so no. And even if you didnt think they were #3, it wouldn't take much for them to push way past Northwestern. Probably just one NCAA appearance and the city will be back behind them.
Dayton - #4, and obviously the absolute weakest of the bunch.