(03-07-2013 01:01 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 12:47 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 12:15 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  I know Toledo is sometimes mentioned with some other MAC schools as looking for "greener pastures". The MAC Commissioner's "decision" of a week or so ago that, regardless of how many games the Toledo men's basketball team wins, they will not be considered to be West Division champs or co-champs, isn't playing very well in Toledo right now (can't speak for University officials, but the fan base is not happy at all).

Than maybe they should have have shaved points.

Quote:It's not about having an attitude that UT is "better than the MAC"...it's about wondering whether or not the MAC (conference officials, not our peers) cares much anymore about Toledo. And if it can happen to UT...it can happen to one of your schools.

Drama queen...

This is about APR not point shaving, which is being handled by the court system. Point is this is a double secret probation, where the MAC media wasn't even notified in the preseason and voted Toledo to win the MAC West. The MAC went beyond the NCAA decision.

Bull_In_Exile is just a bitter guy.

It's funny that the MAC waited to announce that they (the MAC) wouldn't recognize a division title for UT until there were 3(?) games left, when UT was in position (and is still in position) to win the MAC West division. It's like they wanted to get one last jab in at UT. But it doesn't matter if the MAC won't recognize a division title for UT, because UT will definitely recognize it and raise a MAC West banner when we win (at least a share) of the West division.

(03-07-2013 01:09 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  it's funny that the MAC waited to announce that they (the MAC) wouldn't recognize a division title for UT until there were 3(?) games left, when UT was in position (and is still in position) to win the MAC West division. It's like they wanted to get one last jab in at UT. But it doesn't matter if the MAC won't recognize a division title for UT, because UT will definitely recognize it and raise a MAC West banner when we win (at least a share) of the West division.

No doubt they will. Toledo is awesome at making up whatever accomplishments they want.. Throw it on a businesses card and let your promotions department source that card so they can make stuff up as well.

The consensus here seems to be wait and see. As someone who has followed the MAC for over 40 years, I am frustrated that nothing ever changes. A school will seem to move into the national spotlight only to drop back into insignificance. There is too much dead weight in the MAC. The schools that seem to be moving up don't really have the financial wherewithal or fan support to do so. A program like Louisville went from an old Missouri Valley School to the latest add to the ACC. That took decades and lots of deep pockets. I just don't see that happening in the MAC. With 5 schools in Ohio, it will be difficult to break them up. Ditto for the 3 in Michigan. Something dramatic would be needed. For now, we need to content ourselves with the good old MAC, cradle of coaches, little sister to the Big Ten, and not dream big. I regret that a lot.

(03-07-2013 01:48 PM)bigredmachine Wrote:  The consensus here seems to be wait and see. As someone who has followed the MAC for over 40 years, I am frustrated that nothing ever changes. A school will seem to move into the national spotlight only to drop back into insignificance. There is too much dead weight in the MAC. The schools that seem to be moving up don't really have the financial wherewithal or fan support to do so. A program like Louisville went from an old Missouri Valley School to the latest add to the ACC. That took decades and lots of deep pockets.

Pockets no MAC team has. So what would you propose otherwise?

Quote: I just don't see that happening in the MAC. With 5 schools in Ohio, it will be difficult to break them up.

Why? Seems easier to me.

I still think the MAC will get raided by the ECC. Given the MAC needs to have about 3 contingency plans, I'm not sure it's reasonable for them to start aggresively inviting change. Good way to get burned.

Quote: For now, we need to content ourselves with the good old MAC, cradle of coaches, little sister to the Big Ten, and not dream big. I regret that a lot.

I do too. Not that I expect the MAC ever to get out of the Big Ten's shadow, but that they don't do much to improve. However, I think even that has the fingerprints of the Big Ten. University Presidents are given mandates by the states' governors and regents, and they were hired based on their expected compliance. MAC teams won't get way better b/c they're not allowed to.

(03-07-2013 01:37 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 01:09 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  it's funny that the MAC waited to announce that they (the MAC) wouldn't recognize a division title for UT until there were 3(?) games left, when UT was in position (and is still in position) to win the MAC West division. It's like they wanted to get one last jab in at UT. But it doesn't matter if the MAC won't recognize a division title for UT, because UT will definitely recognize it and raise a MAC West banner when we win (at least a share) of the West division.

No doubt they will. Toledo is awesome at making up whatever accomplishments they want.. Throw it on a businesses card and let your promotions department source that card so they can make stuff up as well.

Take a breath. UT fans have a very good point here; if the MAC wanted to make the Rockets ineligible for any sort of accolade, they should have made that clear in advance. There should be some sort of grievance aired.

(03-07-2013 01:37 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 01:09 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  it's funny that the MAC waited to announce that they (the MAC) wouldn't recognize a division title for UT until there were 3(?) games left, when UT was in position (and is still in position) to win the MAC West division. It's like they wanted to get one last jab in at UT. But it doesn't matter if the MAC won't recognize a division title for UT, because UT will definitely recognize it and raise a MAC West banner when we win (at least a share) of the West division.

No doubt they will. Toledo is awesome at making up whatever accomplishments they want.. Throw it on a businesses card and let your promotions department source that card so they can make stuff up as well.

One winning FB season in about 14 with the MAC might even best fans whine.

(03-07-2013 01:48 PM)bigredmachine Wrote:  The consensus here seems to be wait and see. As someone who has followed the MAC for over 40 years, I am frustrated that nothing ever changes. A school will seem to move into the national spotlight only to drop back into insignificance. There is too much dead weight in the MAC.

People keep saying there is all this dead weight in the MAC but where is it?

AP Top 25 since 2008: Ohio, Toledo, Kent St, NIU, Ball St, CMU
MACC since 2008: Miami, Buffalo, CMU, NIU
Made a bowl since 2008: WMU, BG

Almost everyone is a contributor on the FB side of thing except Akron, EMU and UMass. Then in basketball the top program in the MAC going back the last 5 years has been Akron.

EMU is the only program that isn't contributing in FB/BB. They are competitive however with the league in salaries and facilities.

Seriously how could anybody say that Kent State isn't doing their best to propel this league forward? I would not say that they are trying to leave the MAC as I am sure that Kent is very happy where we are and in what we do but in terms of trying to compete like a high level program how can you say otherwise?

Kent has been to the college world series, has many ranked and high performing minor sports (gymnastics, golf programs, wrestling, etc), been trying very hard to improve the football program with finally something to show for it in a top 25 ranking, improved facilities (have you been to Dix lately it is a much better place than it was say 10 years ago), making changes to the school (I don't even recognize some parts of campus anymore), making changes to the local community (take a look at Kent's downtown it is being completely changed and that is due to Kent State it is having its biggest change in the city's history and for once the locals are behind the university instead of against it), and finally when was the last time Kent was not competitive in basketball? This is a rebuilding year and look at our win total as many teams in the MAC and beyond would like to be able to call that a rebuilding year.

Kent State has been one of the strongest to the strongest athletic program in the MAC for years now (depending on the year) and has had some of the best ranking in what used to be called the Sear's Cup. How can you possibly say Kent State should not be considered to be a school trying to push this league forward athletically?

(03-07-2013 02:03 PM)JSF Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 01:37 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 01:09 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  it's funny that the MAC waited to announce that they (the MAC) wouldn't recognize a division title for UT until there were 3(?) games left, when UT was in position (and is still in position) to win the MAC West division. It's like they wanted to get one last jab in at UT. But it doesn't matter if the MAC won't recognize a division title for UT, because UT will definitely recognize it and raise a MAC West banner when we win (at least a share) of the West division.

No doubt they will. Toledo is awesome at making up whatever accomplishments they want.. Throw it on a businesses card and let your promotions department source that card so they can make stuff up as well.

Take a breath. UT fans have a very good point here; if the MAC wanted to make the Rockets ineligible for any sort of accolade, they should have made that clear in advance. There should be some sort of grievance aired.

Bingo. If the MAC would have announced BEFORE the season that UT would be ineligible to win the MAC (overall conference or division), that would be one thing. But to wait until there are 3 or 4 games left, with UT still in first place at that time, to make this decision reeks of incompetence from the MAC office.

The only reason the MAC has avoided losing a "key" member is because none of the key members were seen as desirable enough to target by other conferences in the latest rounds of realignment. I feel that while not there yet, we are very close to the round of realignment where losing a top MAC school happens.. While I do not know who it would be, I fear to think what the MAC would look like without NII or Toledo or Ohio or Akron. I prefer to be proactive with this coming, not left reeling when we lose one of out strongest programs.

I enjoy the "all is well" crowd preaching all the MAC schools are content. Toledo fans have mentioned some of their gripes here, NIU fans are constantly discussing their next move post BCS bowl with their chicago market while fans at Ohio and Akron are mad no one else is stepping up spending on hoops. To say fans don't matter is silly. Fans may not give you a clear indication of a schools intention, but they tend to mimic the thoughts somewhat..

(03-07-2013 02:48 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 02:03 PM)JSF Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 01:37 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 01:09 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  it's funny that the MAC waited to announce that they (the MAC) wouldn't recognize a division title for UT until there were 3(?) games left, when UT was in position (and is still in position) to win the MAC West division. It's like they wanted to get one last jab in at UT. But it doesn't matter if the MAC won't recognize a division title for UT, because UT will definitely recognize it and raise a MAC West banner when we win (at least a share) of the West division.

No doubt they will. Toledo is awesome at making up whatever accomplishments they want.. Throw it on a businesses card and let your promotions department source that card so they can make stuff up as well.

Take a breath. UT fans have a very good point here; if the MAC wanted to make the Rockets ineligible for any sort of accolade, they should have made that clear in advance. There should be some sort of grievance aired.

Bingo. If the MAC would have announced BEFORE the season that UT would be ineligible to win the MAC (overall conference or division), that would be one thing. But to wait until there are 3 or 4 games left, with UT still in first place at that time, to make this decision reeks of incompetence from the MAC office.

incompetence of communication not intent to screw Toledo.... And yes thiese htings happen in all conferences. Hell the Big East wrote a book on conference incompetence, CUSA has made their own bonehead moves.

It's funny that everyone thinks the MAC is holding them back. NIU has had recent fball success and has outgrown the MAC. I heard it from CMU fans when we went through our 4-5 years of being at/near the top. NIU made it to the Orange Bowl, despite being in the MAC (who took care of them financially btw, unlike the BE and UConn). I still don't see a slam dunk move to be made to strengthen the conference. We need to compete with the other five conferences that don't have an auto tie-in. There may be pieces to go after post-realignment but what do we have to offer to steal a program from another conference?

I agree with Toledo's beef, more so about the timing of the announcement, not the penalty itself.

Finally looks like the Big East leftovers will go to 12, meet the America 12 Conference:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...ources-say

(03-07-2013 04:01 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  Finally looks like the Big East leftovers will go to 12, meet the America 12 Conference:

The number is meaningless...maybe they get to 12, maybe they stay at 10, maybe they go over 12...the number just adds to the overall brand worth...

(03-07-2013 04:09 PM)wleakr Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 04:01 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  Finally looks like the Big East leftovers will go to 12, meet the America 12 Conference:

The number is meaningless...maybe they get to 12, maybe they stay at 10, maybe they go over 12...the number just adds to the overall brand worth...

It looks like whatever the new name is going to be its going to be some variant of the America 12 name. The Jersey Guy who follows the inside scoop over in Providence had been hearing "Big America" about 2 years ago.

This league is also heading to 12 members. Tulsa likely the 12th school. They have to finalize a name first before they can invite any new schools to the party and that is why they've dragged their feet on Tulsa.

There has been no indication yet as to what the A10 (not to be confused with A12) is going to do in response to raiding. That is where its going to be more interesting for the MAC I think.

(03-07-2013 04:32 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 04:09 PM)wleakr Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 04:01 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  Finally looks like the Big East leftovers will go to 12, meet the America 12 Conference:

The number is meaningless...maybe they get to 12, maybe they stay at 10, maybe they go over 12...the number just adds to the overall brand worth...

It looks like whatever the new name is going to be its going to be some variant of the America 12 name. The Jersey Guy who follows the inside scoop over in Providence had been hearing "Big America" about 2 years ago.

This league is also heading to 12 members. Tulsa likely the 12th school. They have to finalize a name first before they can invite any new schools to the party and that is why they've dragged their feet on Tulsa.

There has been no indication yet as to what the A10 (not to be confused with A12) is going to do in response to raiding. That is where its going to be more interesting for the MAC I think.

If the A-10 adds a couple teams like George Mason, Wichita State, Drexel, or Davidson, then I think UMass would be happy to stay in the A-10.

(03-07-2013 04:09 PM)wleakr Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 04:01 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  Finally looks like the Big East leftovers will go to 12, meet the America 12 Conference:

The number is meaningless...maybe they get to 12, maybe they stay at 10, maybe they go over 12...the number just adds to the overall brand worth...

Why would they even put a number in the name anymore. They'd just look dumb a year from now when they end up with more or fewer teams.

(03-07-2013 02:54 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  The only reason the MAC has avoided losing a "key" member is because none of the key members were seen as desirable enough to target by other conferences in the latest rounds of realignment.

I blame Eastern Michigan.

(03-07-2013 06:55 PM)JSF Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 02:54 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  The only reason the MAC has avoided losing a "key" member is because none of the key members were seen as desirable enough to target by other conferences in the latest rounds of realignment.

I blame Eastern Michigan.

You quoted the wrong part of my post where Eastern Michigan is deserving of blame.

Quote:The Mountain West Conference and ESPN are finalizing a seven-year media rights deal for the network to televise up to 22 football games and 25 men's basketball games annually, sources said Thursday.

The deal brings the total value of the Mountain West's media rights deal, including its existing deal with CBS Sports Network, up to about $116 million, or $18 million annually, sources said.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...ng-sources

The MWC was able to get the per school amount up to 1.5 million from what they were making before from CBS with an additional 700k per school from ESPN.

I would suspect that the MAC is looking at 1 million to 1.5 million for its next TV deal with NBC, Fox, CBS and ESPN all bidders to the market.

I can see ESPN wanting to hang on to the MAC for over Midweek games and FB/BB championship games while NBC comes in with a Saturday FB package for October/September.

The MW, A12 and SBC are all locked in until 2019-20 with deals so that gives the MAC an advantage at the negotiating table.

(03-07-2013 04:48 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 04:32 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 04:09 PM)wleakr Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 04:01 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  

If the A-10 adds a couple teams like George Mason, Wichita State, Drexel, or Davidson, then I think UMass would be happy to stay in the A-10.

If the A-10 were to lose a bunch of teams, which seems on the verge happening, and then reloaded with UMass still in the fold as you mention above, I wonder if that would be enough for the MAC to tell them the football only arrangement is off. I assume the MAC would want UMass all sports as there was language in the original contract which spoke to this. If the A-10 losing up to six programs is still not enough to move UMass all in though, then it would seem doubtful they would ever move to the MAC all sports.