No exit fees, no grant of rights, no little brother "State U" to worry about and, as a bonus, likely no SEC temper tantrum if Mizzou leaves.

Looks relatively quick and simple.

But a 13-team SEC? Suddenly the ACC's foundation looks even shakier. A replacement has to come from somewhere. Now Mike Slive is the bad guy for raiding the ACC (and all the while Jim Delany is smiling).

The Big Ten has Maryland in the boat; no way, with the ACC ready to crumble, does Virginia not join the Terps.

That leaves UNC and Duke.

Do the Heels and their tagalong buddies from Durham choose a league with Maryland, UVa and the AAU stamp of approval or a football-first conference likely to pick up Virginia Tech and perhaps one, two or all among N.C. State, FSU and Clemson?

I like Delany's chances here.

So ... Missouri, Virginia, North Carolina and Duke make 18.

Delany plucks Kansas to complement Missouri and give the Big Ten a basketball royalty Fab Four of UNC, Duke, IU and KU. That's 19 members.

The ACC is rapidly disintegrating and it's time for Captain Jim to reel in his white whale: Notre Dame.

There will be kicking and screaming from subway alumni for sure, but an all-sports league with flagship universities from the Great Plains to the Great Lakes to the shadows of the Big Apple to the best of the New South would seems like a suitably sprawling fit for the Fighting Irish.

Especially considering the alternatives.

"You each could invent a scenario that would force our hand."
— Jack Swarbrick, 2010

Missouri leaving could happen. They have expressed interest in the past and I'm sure that there are significant Missouri alums who would love to be in the Big 10-20. However, I believe whatever chance the Big 10 had to land Missouri has passed. Instead of being overlooked and shunned as they were the last few times the Big 10 expanded, Missouri was courted by the SEC and I believe the Tigers are glad it turned out this way. I assure you their baseball coach will not want to change conferences again.

While your scenario may represent a Big 10-20 fans' wet dream, allow me to present another scenario or two for you. As Heinous has pointed out, if one of the big two conferences goes to 20, then the other needs to as well in order to get the rules changes passed to make it viable. What if the SEC decides that most of their desired candidates are gone, so they will just stay at 14 and won't support changing the rules? The Big 10 would be stuck with two 10-team divisions. But my favorite scenario after a Missouri move to the Big 10 would be for the SEC to take Kansas to replace Missouri, invite UNC, Duke and Va. Tech and stop at 18. That would effectively thwart the Big 10's southeastern strategy. Of course, I don't really want to see Missouri go to the Big 10. If the SEC wants to go to 18, I would much rather see them get UNC, Duke and Va. Tech, then for #18, either Kansas (not likely), FSU or WVU.

I don't think a SEC school would go to the Big Ten and viceversa. Those two would rather work together and probably destroy the weakest link, the ACC rather than raid each other.

As a B1G Ten fan, adding UVA, UNC, Mizzou and Kansas would be my preference.

The conference doesn't need Notre Dame at that point. Contiguous conference, all the top public research universities from each of the representative states, huge fan support, great bball, no threats on the grid iron to the established programs and excellent academics.

Sign me up!

(03-04-2013 12:48 AM)Fireman451 Wrote:  As a B1G Ten fan, adding UVA, UNC, Mizzou and Kansas would be my preference.

The conference doesn't need Notre Dame at that point. Contiguous conference, all the top public research universities from each of the representative states, huge fan support, great bball, no threats on the grid iron to the established programs and excellent academics.

Sign me up!

I thought you were a Houston fan as well. I have no problem with Kansas leaving. Hopefully that blows this GOR joke out of the water and the Texoma 4 head west. That would allow a safe landing spot for SMU, Baylor, TCU and Houston in a rebuilt Big 12.

A League with Baylor, Iowa St, K-State and others should get more money than the nBE.

Missouri to the B1G? Been there, done that. In your dreams. Missouri has a new lover. There is a reason there are no exit fees in the SEC...

Great minds think alike...and apparently ours do too.

I didn't think of the timing of it all though...shaking up the SEC early on (maybe next?) would mean they'd go on the offensive...and would need to raid the ACC as well. Even if the SEC only took one, it would further the process. Virginia Tech would seem like a logical first step...

And that could put the Big 12 on more of an offensive as well...ACC borders crumbling...SEC and Big Ten poaching...FSU/Clemson/Miami/Louisville aren't going to stay there forever...

Missouri won't leave the SEC. When Mizzou joined the SEC they did so for the long haul. If the Big Ten wanted/wants Missouri they should have added them a few years ago. From what I understand the bridge between Delany and the Big Ten and Alden and Deaton at Mizzou has more or less been burned.

Besides a school would have to be completely crazy to voluntarily leave the SEC and so far Mizzou has been impressed with the way the SEC has handled everything about the move. They even included Mizzou as a full member right away with equal revenue payouts. No buy in period.

This conference does everything the right way and with the launching of the SEC network we are going to be getting plenty of money.

Some people think we don't like being in the East division but it actually works out well for us. With Arky as our cross division rival Mizzou plays all four SEC schools from border states (Kentucky, Tennessee, Vandy, and Arky) each year. If in a few years the SEC expands and Mizzou has to move to the West division that's fine too. Then we would be able to recruit more in Texas again and still play Arky plus Ole Miss (fun road trip) which isn't too far away and A&M who we played against in the Big 12.




Mizzou has also announced a 200 million dollar renovation/expansion of facilities including a 102 million first phase expansion of Faurot Field that is beginning this off season and will take 2 or 3 years to compete.

http://www.collegiatestadiums.com/2012/0...-upgrades/

I don't think the fans or boosters would be happy with Mizzou if they tried to leave the SEC at this point.

Okay let's play with your assumptions. North Carolina and Virginia will be a battle ground and likely the only one that the SEC and Big 10 could go to blows over. In Virginia the SEC would probably be content with Tech as they deliver as much of the state market as Virginia, and maybe more.

North Carolina is the obvious prize in their state and the SEC would likely extend a bid to both Duke and N.C. State to land them and halt the Big 10 if the two conferences refused to cooperate in this matter. That's something the Big 10 can't and won't do. Now I'm not saying that this is the ideal situation for the SEC, but knowing that Delany might well opt for Duke. They bring better academics and carry enough of the state to count and they draw well in the Big Apple. The University of North Carolina System will want a home for the Wolfpack. Packaging them with the Heels would be a do for the SEC. Delany wouldn't waste a pick and would still be able to go for Georgia Tech, a team the SEC wouldn't flinch about the Big 10 getting. Delany would then have three AAU schools and three of the four states he seeks. Miami could be inducted into AAU next election. The SEC wouldn't flinch over their addition to the Big 10 either.

With Virginia, Duke, Georgia Tech and Miami the Big 10 accomplishes its market objectives, doesn't violate AAU status (provided Miami receives it) and doesn't go to war with the SEC who really doesn't want to spend 3 slots on the state of North Carolina.

The two teams that the SEC will likely fight over is North Carolina and Florida State. Mind you if the Big 10 goes to 20 and the SEC goes to 20 that means that eventually the Big 12 and PAC will either merge, or a substantial number of the Big 12 will be taken by the PAC so that they grow to 20.

The Big 10 has interest in a couple of mid-western teams. I don't think Mizzou is one of them. Kansas and Oklahoma would balance the western division beautifully. Oklahoma is not AAU but is close enough to be eligible in a few years. But the Big 10 won't take those two unless it knows that N.D. is totally out. I believe they will be without a question out to the Big 10.

The Big 10 can get to 20 with Virginia, Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, Kansas and Oklahoma. That's a heckuva conference footprint.

If they get to 20 with North Carolina they will likely have to take Duke to do it. That means they either give up entry into Florida, or they give up the addition of another midwestern school. It also frees the SEC to pick up another state since they won't have to spend two picks on North Carolina.

If the Big 10 takes those I suggested first then the SEC can counter with North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, Florida State and then either West Virginia and Clemson for a concentrated easily traveled conference, or a Kansas and Oklahoma school for new markets. I think they will go for the content additions of F.S.U. and Clemson and the new state of West Virginia. Such a move allows the PAC to get to 20 as well. I think they will take Clemson because it is the right political decision and because they are a cultural fit. The only teams that could bump them from a 20 team SEC would be Oklahoma or Texas both of whom are very unlikely or (unless hell froze over and ) the Irish joined. Which of course they won't.

Now, what I find about your proposal that is most unlikely is the proposed raid of the ACC. It totally ignores network considerations and existing contracts.

If the ACC holds, and I think it will, then we move to 4 conferences with the parsing of the Big 12........some day, but probably not now. In that case an unbelievable cooperation between the PAC, SEC, and Big 10 must take place........and it won't. But it doesn't hurt to dream.

P.S. While I don't think it would happen has anyone in the Big 10 considered what an unfriendly and uncooperative move South could do to your markets? Syracuse, Boston College, Connecticut, and Pittsburgh are sitting out there and a 24 member SEC is not out of the question. Now Mike Slive might even cut the Irish a deal like the ACC has just to retaliate if necessary. I throw this out to just show how absurd all of the Big 10 Risk board theories can get. Does Kamchatka have a land grant AAU school?

Big Ten should have Missouri and Notre Dame and instead they have Rutgers and Maryland. Way to go Big Ten.

Mizzu and Kansas would be the types of additions they would love to get their greedy little hands on, but who knows what teams or what conference they will come from thats even if they expand beyond 14. All this talk of expanding past 14 is nothing more than speculation at best. I say the moving of teams to one conference to another is over with for some time now, but lets see what happens.

(03-04-2013 12:56 AM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(03-04-2013 12:48 AM)Fireman451 Wrote:  As a B1G Ten fan, adding UVA, UNC, Mizzou and Kansas would be my preference.

The conference doesn't need Notre Dame at that point. Contiguous conference, all the top public research universities from each of the representative states, huge fan support, great bball, no threats on the grid iron to the established programs and excellent academics.

Sign me up!

I thought you were a Houston fan as well. I have no problem with Kansas leaving. Hopefully that blows this GOR joke out of the water and the Texoma 4 head west. That would allow a safe landing spot for SMU, Baylor, TCU and Houston in a rebuilt Big 12.

A League with Baylor, Iowa St, K-State and others should get more money than the nBE.

A Texas Tech guy wanting the GOR blown to bits is high comedy. Slick, if the Big 12's GOR goes away, Texas is going to the Big 10 and Tech is going to, at best, the Mountain West. The Pac 12 will invite Tech without Texas the day Hitler and Usama Bin Laden rise form the dead, apologize for their mistakes, and then get married in Vermont.

This is what I have been saying all along. While everyone has been singing Jim Delany's praises for being an evil puppet master and a genius, most have missed the fact that he and the B1G have made several, uh, curious (or at the very least, inconsistent) decisions along the way.

If choosing Maryland and Rutgers for their television potential was sheer genius because of the value they are going to add to the BTN, then choosing Nebraska over Missouri a few years earlier was very likely a mistake for those very same reasons.

Personally, I think cable reach is important but also slightly overrated. I think teams that perform will always draw interest and as such I would have chosen proven teams over potentially strong teams. Therefore, I would have chosen Nebraska over Mizzou and then I would have chosen Florida State and Georgia Tech over Rutgers and Maryland.

If the goal - or part of the goal - was to harm the ACC, the hypothetical strategy would have had a FAR greater impact than the one they ultimately employed.

(03-04-2013 12:48 AM)Fireman451 Wrote:  As a B1G Ten fan, adding UVA, UNC, Mizzou and Kansas would be my preference.

[b]The conference doesn't need Notre Dame at that point. [/b]Contiguous conference, all the top public research universities from each of the representative states, huge fan support, great bball, no threats on the grid iron to the established programs and excellent academics.

Sign me up!

Great news!

This is what I have been saying all along. While everyone has been singing Jim Delany's praises for being an evil puppet master and a genius, most have missed the fact that he and the B1G have made several, uh, curious (or at the very least, inconsistent) decisions along the way.

If choosing Maryland and Rutgers for their television potential was sheer genius because of the value they are going to add to the BTN, then choosing Nebraska over Missouri a few years earlier was very likely a mistake for those very same reasons.

Getting valuable TV markets will always be huge to the B1G but there is a very small collections of elite football programs from small TV footprints that will draw viewers in any geography (Nebraska, Oklahoma to name 2).

Mizzou has, in its footprint, some valuable TV markets but most college football fans, even in that footprint, are more likely to watch Nebraska or OU than Missouri.

(03-03-2013 11:50 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  No exit fees, no grant of rights, no little brother "State U" to worry about and, as a bonus, likely no SEC temper tantrum if Mizzou leaves.

Looks relatively quick and simple.

But a 13-team SEC? Suddenly the ACC's foundation looks even shakier. A replacement has to come from somewhere. Now Mike Slive is the bad guy for raiding the ACC (and all the while Jim Delany is smiling).

The Big Ten has Maryland in the boat; no way, with the ACC ready to crumble, does Virginia not join the Terps.

That leaves UNC and Duke.

Do the Heels and their tagalong buddies from Durham choose a league with Maryland, UVa and the AAU stamp of approval or a football-first conference likely to pick up Virginia Tech and perhaps one, two or all among N.C. State, FSU and Clemson?

I like Delany's chances here.

So ... Missouri, Virginia, North Carolina and Duke make 18.

Delany plucks Kansas to complement Missouri and give the Big Ten a basketball royalty Fab Four of UNC, Duke, IU and KU. That's 19 members.

The ACC is rapidly disintegrating and it's time for Captain Jim to reel in his white whale: Notre Dame.



Hopefully, hell f-e-c-k-i-n-g no.


There will be kicking and screaming from subway alumni for sure, but an all-sports league with flagship universities from the Great Plains to the Great Lakes to the shadows of the Big Apple to the best of the New South would seems like a suitably sprawling fit for the Fighting Irish.


Why? It would still be the freaking Big Ten run by Jim Delany and ruled over/dominated by Michigan and Ohio State.

It would still be mostly large, land grant, secular state universities. A bad fit for ND.

Why would ND want to put its football program under the control of those folks?


Especially considering the alternatives.


You mean ND resigning a big contract with NBC and staying affiliated with the ACC, even a depleted one?

Why is the Big Ten "better" than that for ND? I like how Big Ten fans know what is "best" for the Irish, more so than ND itself, especially since it seems to be what is "better" for the Big Ten, instead.

"You each could invent a scenario that would force our hand."
— Jack Swarbrick, 2010

He was talking about no playoff access for Notre Dame, no minor bowl bids and problems with late season scheduling.

That quote was well before ND got playoff access and affiliated with the ACC for the other two things.

The question of Mizzou leaving the SEC is a question of how much pull does the academic side of the univ. have a the MU president. Mizzou joining the SEC was a move primarily motivated by getting out of the B12 and being rejected by the B1G, thus making conference affiliation a solely athletic decision for the MU president.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that the professors at MU are lukewarm to cold on the concept of an SEC academic alliance. Despite UF, A&M, UGA and Vandy all working towards creating something that mimics the B1G's CIC, it seems that MU is just sitting on the periphery, waiting patiently.

Being a top ranked athletic conference is a cyclical thing and the Tigers have yet to forge the deep bonds the bind the rest of the SEC together. The academic perception of the to B1G is of course miles ahead of the SEC as well. Thus, if a B1G invite gets extended to Mizzou, there is only one compelling reason for the Tigers to stay in the SEC; that of honor.

I still think the B1G would like to pull MO out of the SEC just to show that it can.

However, there is a good argument to be made about the SEC and B1G being motivated to eliminate the market overlap with the ACC. If you look at that TV$ premium the PAC seems to be getting due to the lack of competition within its footprint, it would make sense for the SEC and B1G to try and accomplish the same thing on the east coast.

(03-04-2013 08:37 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  This is what I have been saying all along. While everyone has been singing Jim Delany's praises for being an evil puppet master and a genius, most have missed the fact that he and the B1G have made several, uh, curious (or at the very least, inconsistent) decisions along the way.

If choosing Maryland and Rutgers for their television potential was sheer genius because of the value they are going to add to the BTN, then choosing Nebraska over Missouri a few years earlier was very likely a mistake for those very same reasons.

Getting valuable TV markets will always be huge to the B1G but there is a very small collections of elite football programs from small TV footprints that will draw viewers in any geography (Nebraska, Oklahoma to name 2).

Mizzou has, in its footprint, some valuable TV markets but most college football fans, even in that footprint, are more likely to watch Nebraska or OU than Missouri.

Bevo excrement.

I wouldn't be shocked if missouri went to the big 10. YEt, i don't think it would go down with missouri, unc, duke, and uva. IF the big 10 is picking off the prime acc school's, they won't pick missouri but keeping hitting the acc, i.e. add unc, duke, uva + more acc school's, ga tech? fsu? etc, not missouri. I think the only way the big 10 adds missouri is if they also add kansas. Adding KU and missouir to get to 16 isn't a bad setup for the big 10. Another option i like for the big 10 is to swallow some pride and just give ND the same deal the acc did, non football member. I think the only way the nd alums might warm to the big 10 is if they get such a deal, make it 6 football games ND must play but keep the um, msu, and purdue games. Sometime down the road, nd alums might be cool with joining full time, than the big 10 could jump to 16 with anybody, game over.