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(03-04-2013 10:06 AM)thegeneral Wrote:  I wish it was as good as whipping it around the perimeter. Mostly, it's look inside, pass it to the left, look inside, dribble left, pass it to the left. There was way too much time holding the ball allowing the D to easily rotate.

^this

I'd rather them whip the ball around for 10 seconds than hold it for 2 or 3 seconds each while looking to thread a needle in that zone. So frustrating.

Part of the problem is that they likely get away with doing that in practice. WMU can't replicate that zone effectively with the second or third string guys.

I was surprised WMU didn't press more, after it worked well for you in the 1st game. Outside of maybe NIU, we have the worst ball handling in the entire MAC. We really haven't shown we can beat a press at all this year.

I agree that this year's basketball team has exceeded expectations, and that is a good testament to something (I think mostly DP, but Hawk is the guy who recruited DP, so give him credit for that). It seems though that Hawk has struggled in years where we should have shined. We had a 20+ win season two years ago, with virtually everyone coming back last year, and had a terrible season. That is what worries me about next year. Tons of promise with tremendous young players, and what will happen?

I also have concerns with Hawks tendency to lose some of our real good young players. Transfers can get any program, but here we have guys that are starting, and doing well, with lots of minutes, and yet they want to leave the program for some reason.

Other players play real well for a year or two, then struggle after being in the program a while. All players should get better each year. Not always the case here.

(03-04-2013 10:41 AM)brovol Wrote:  I agree that this year's basketball team has exceeded expectations, and that is a good testament to something (I think mostly DP, but Hawk is the guy who recruited DP, so give him credit for that). It seems though that Hawk has struggled in years where we should have shined. We had a 20+ win season two years ago, with virtually everyone coming back last year, and had a terrible season. That is what worries me about next year. Tons of promise with tremendous young players, and what will happen?

I also have concerns with Hawks tendency to lose some of our real good young players. Transfers can get any program, but here we have guys that are starting, and doing well, with lots of minutes, and yet they want to leave the program for some reason.

Other players play real well for a year or two, then struggle after being in the program a while. All players should get better each year. Not always the case here.

What would last year been like with even a healthy David Brown?

I can think of just TWO "real good young players" that left WMU on their own. Am I missing any? Even Izzo at MSU has lost twice that many. One of those that left even went to UDM.

(03-04-2013 08:19 AM)BrianPersky Wrote:  I don't expect EMU fans to like it, but it is what it is.

Like I said, bravo! Very observant of you.

(03-04-2013 11:01 AM)holybovine Wrote:  

(03-04-2013 08:19 AM)BrianPersky Wrote:  I don't expect EMU fans to like it, but it is what it is.

Like I said, bravo! Very observant of you.

I make a lot of observations. We all do. I never asked for "journalistic accolades" on this one. Not sure why this is such a big deal to you.

(03-04-2013 10:58 AM)okgc Wrote:  

(03-04-2013 10:41 AM)brovol Wrote:  I agree that this year's basketball team has exceeded expectations, and that is a good testament to something (I think mostly DP, but Hawk is the guy who recruited DP, so give him credit for that). It seems though that Hawk has struggled in years where we should have shined. We had a 20+ win season two years ago, with virtually everyone coming back last year, and had a terrible season. That is what worries me about next year. Tons of promise with tremendous young players, and what will happen?

I also have concerns with Hawks tendency to lose some of our real good young players. Transfers can get any program, but here we have guys that are starting, and doing well, with lots of minutes, and yet they want to leave the program for some reason.

Other players play real well for a year or two, then struggle after being in the program a while. All players should get better each year. Not always the case here.

What would last year been like with even a healthy David Brown?

I can think of just TWO "real good young players" that left WMU on their own. Am I missing any? Even Izzo at MSU has lost twice that many. One of those that left even went to UDM.

I can only think of the two players who transferred recently; but it is more the quality of those players, and the fact that they were such key players in the program. Typically players transfer because they either are not getting enough playing time, think their role in the program will be diminished in the future, or are having some outside problems (legal or character issues). A lot of blue chip type players go to BCS schools, but find themselves amongst several blue-chippers when they arrive on campus, and are seriously disappointed with their playing time after a few years, so they transfer somewhere else, thinking that the change will result in more time. That isn't the case with the guys who left our program.

As for last year, I don't think Brown could have turned the bad year into a good year.

(03-04-2013 11:13 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(03-04-2013 10:58 AM)okgc Wrote:  

(03-04-2013 10:41 AM)brovol Wrote:  I agree that this year's basketball team has exceeded expectations, and that is a good testament to something (I think mostly DP, but Hawk is the guy who recruited DP, so give him credit for that). It seems though that Hawk has struggled in years where we should have shined. We had a 20+ win season two years ago, with virtually everyone coming back last year, and had a terrible season. That is what worries me about next year. Tons of promise with tremendous young players, and what will happen?

I also have concerns with Hawks tendency to lose some of our real good young players. Transfers can get any program, but here we have guys that are starting, and doing well, with lots of minutes, and yet they want to leave the program for some reason.

Other players play real well for a year or two, then struggle after being in the program a while. All players should get better each year. Not always the case here.

What would last year been like with even a healthy David Brown?

I can think of just TWO "real good young players" that left WMU on their own. Am I missing any? Even Izzo at MSU has lost twice that many. One of those that left even went to UDM.

I can only think of the two players who transferred recently; but it is more the quality of those players, and the fact that they were such key players in the program. Typically players transfer because they either are not getting enough playing time, think their role in the program will be diminished in the future, or are having some outside problems (legal or character issues). A lot of blue chip type players go to BCS schools, but find themselves amongst several blue-chippers when they arrive on campus, and are seriously disappointed with their playing time after a few years, so they transfer somewhere else, thinking that the change will result in more time. That isn't the case with the guys who left our program.

As for last year, I don't think Brown could have turned the bad year into a good year.

Having a healthy Brown last year is a conundrum. He was healthy at the beginning of the season. And while he showed sparks of being great, he certainly wasn't playing at the level he is now. There were at least 3 alpha dogs ahead of him on the totem pole...that all wanted the ball, or were good enough to score double digits in the MAC on a regular basis.

I don't know if he would have made a difference. Playing him would have meant reduced time for Pokely and Richie. Ward's minutes weren't going anywhere. Only the BGSU game was a loss in conference by 10 or more points. Even the season ending loss to Kent was only 4 points.

Think about that for a second, we lost 9 conference games and the season ending game in Cleveland by 9 or less points.

1-3 points: 4 games
4-6 points: 4 games
7-9 points: 2 games

(03-04-2013 10:41 AM)brovol Wrote:  I agree that this year's basketball team has exceeded expectations, and that is a good testament to something (I think mostly DP, but Hawk is the guy who recruited DP, so give him credit for that). It seems though that Hawk has struggled in years where we should have shined. We had a 20+ win season two years ago, with virtually everyone coming back last year, and had a terrible season. That is what worries me about next year. Tons of promise with tremendous young players, and what will happen?

Read the article on Shayne again and tell me who called to chew him out for missing a workout. Not one of the all MAC caliber juniors who were expected to lead the team last year but a walk on who had to beg to even be on the team. Even before the injuries took their toll what the team lacked was player leadership.

Michigan State had a quality McDonalds All-American HS player go to Detroit and average 18 ppg for three years.
Also a Michigan Mr.Basketball departed before ever playing a game.

Every guy on Bravols list was a stiff, with the exception of Brandon Cotton who was a head case.

I guess you could say that the last two were head cases and kid from Ft. Wayne was a stiff. Izzo lost pretty much nothing in terms of talent. We lost a lot in terms of talent. I'm hoping he gently finds a way to help Hordemann find a new home.

We're comparing Izzo to Hawkins now?

(03-04-2013 03:35 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  We're comparing Izzo to Hawkins now?

Only team departures.

(03-03-2013 08:51 AM)BrianPersky Wrote:  If you want to talk about poor coaching, Rob Murphy's "offense" sure is puzzling...

Surprised more people aren't talking about the designed alley-oop he drew up on the last possession of regulation when you've got guys like Harrison and Bryant on the floor playing really well. I saw EA3 tweet it.

If there were 1200 fans there, it's because there were probably 200-300 WMU fans boosting attendance. Kid you not there were SIX people in the student section. I thought the Zoo was bad...

Do you play poker on Tuesday afternoons ???