I've seen posted a number of times that there is a bylaw that if 50% of a conference membership leaves, the conference is dissolved.

After reading the current NCAA bylaws several times, I can't find anything to that effect. Does anyone have the number of the bylaw that's being. Referenced?

(03-02-2013 03:39 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I've seen posted a number of times that there is a bylaw that if 50% of a conference membership leaves, the conference is dissolved.

After reading the current NCAA bylaws several times, I can't find anything to that effect. Does anyone have the number of the bylaw that's being. Referenced?

Don't know if you saw it, but Wolfman posted the language from 2007 (not the by-law #) in the "c7 nbe separation deal near" thread. As I pointed out, the rules on conference composition have significantly changed since then so that probably also has been changed.

That rule has been removed. It was related to the continuity provision in the definition of a multisport conference. The old rule had to do with having a certain number of schools (6) playing together in a conference for a specified number of years (5) to establish continuity. The new rule is that the conference only has to have satisfied the minimum number of schools continuously over 8 years. The NCAA page that discusses how credits are paid also has the same language about only having a minimum number of schools (but not the same schools) for eight years.

(03-02-2013 08:57 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  That rule has been removed. It was related to the continuity provision in the definition of a multisport conference. The old rule had to do with having a certain number of schools (6) playing together in a conference for a specified number of years (5) to establish continuity. The new rule is that the conference only has to have satisfied the minimum number of schools continuously over 8 years. The NCAA page that discusses how credits are paid also has the same language about only having a minimum number of schools (but not the same schools) for eight years.

Yes, Bob. That's exactly what I found.

But I also went back to an older NCAA manual (2009) before a lot of the continuity changes were made and I couldn't find this 50% rule there either. It's wither a really old rule or it never existed.

When you think of it, the 50% rule would not have made any sense. Under the old rule, a conference needed a minimum of 7 members with 6 of them having played together for 5 consecutive years - something that the nBE won't have next year if the C7 leave BTW. A 50% rule would have meant that a 14 team conference could be dissolved by the withdrawal of 7 of its members even though it would still have met the 7 member/6 for 5 consecutive years requirement. OTOH, a 12 member league that lost 5 members would be in exactly the same position but would survive because it hadn't lost 50% of its membership.

If that rule ever existed, it's a good thing that it's gone.

(03-02-2013 11:21 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 08:57 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  That rule has been removed. It was related to the continuity provision in the definition of a multisport conference. The old rule had to do with having a certain number of schools (6) playing together in a conference for a specified number of years (5) to establish continuity. The new rule is that the conference only has to have satisfied the minimum number of schools continuously over 8 years. The NCAA page that discusses how credits are paid also has the same language about only having a minimum number of schools (but not the same schools) for eight years.

Yes, Bob. That's exactly what I found.

But I also went back to an older NCAA manual (2009) before a lot of the continuity changes were made and I couldn't find this 50% rule there either. It's wither a really old rule or it never existed.

When you think of it, the 50% rule would not have made any sense. Under the old rule, a conference needed a minimum of 7 members with 6 of them having played together for 5 consecutive years - something that the nBE won't have next year if the C7 leave BTW. A 50% rule would have meant that a 14 team conference could be dissolved by the withdrawal of 7 of its members even though it would still have met the 7 member/6 for 5 consecutive years. OTOH, a 12 member league that lost 5 members would be in exactly the same position but would survive because it hadn't lost 50% of its membership.

If that rule ever existed, it's a good thing that it's gone.

When the MWC split from the WAC, 50% of the WAC left and yet they were not dissolved (or disbanded). They kept going as if nothing changed. That may have been the impetus for the rule change. The continuity rule changed in 2011 - likely in anticipation of the changes to the WAC.

(03-02-2013 12:19 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 11:21 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 08:57 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  That rule has been removed. It was related to the continuity provision in the definition of a multisport conference. The old rule had to do with having a certain number of schools (6) playing together in a conference for a specified number of years (5) to establish continuity. The new rule is that the conference only has to have satisfied the minimum number of schools continuously over 8 years. The NCAA page that discusses how credits are paid also has the same language about only having a minimum number of schools (but not the same schools) for eight years.

Yes, Bob. That's exactly what I found.

But I also went back to an older NCAA manual (2009) before a lot of the continuity changes were made and I couldn't find this 50% rule there either. It's wither a really old rule or it never existed.

When you think of it, the 50% rule would not have made any sense. Under the old rule, a conference needed a minimum of 7 members with 6 of them having played together for 5 consecutive years - something that the nBE won't have next year if the C7 leave BTW. A 50% rule would have meant that a 14 team conference could be dissolved by the withdrawal of 7 of its members even though it would still have met the 7 member/6 for 5 consecutive years. OTOH, a 12 member league that lost 5 members would be in exactly the same position but would survive because it hadn't lost 50% of its membership.

If that rule ever existed, it's a good thing that it's gone.

When the MWC split from the WAC, 50% of the WAC left and yet they were not dissolved (or disbanded). They kept going as if nothing changed. That may have been the impetus for the rule change. The continuity rule changed in 2011 - likely in anticipation of the changes to the WAC.

So, the NCAA made a rule change in 2011 in response to a situation that had occurred in the previous millennium? Sounds about right.

(03-02-2013 01:57 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 12:19 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 11:21 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 08:57 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  That rule has been removed. It was related to the continuity provision in the definition of a multisport conference. The old rule had to do with having a certain number of schools (6) playing together in a conference for a specified number of years (5) to establish continuity. The new rule is that the conference only has to have satisfied the minimum number of schools continuously over 8 years. The NCAA page that discusses how credits are paid also has the same language about only having a minimum number of schools (but not the same schools) for eight years.

Yes, Bob. That's exactly what I found.

But I also went back to an older NCAA manual (2009) before a lot of the continuity changes were made and I couldn't find this 50% rule there either. It's wither a really old rule or it never existed.

When you think of it, the 50% rule would not have made any sense. Under the old rule, a conference needed a minimum of 7 members with 6 of them having played together for 5 consecutive years - something that the nBE won't have next year if the C7 leave BTW. A 50% rule would have meant that a 14 team conference could be dissolved by the withdrawal of 7 of its members even though it would still have met the 7 member/6 for 5 consecutive years. OTOH, a 12 member league that lost 5 members would be in exactly the same position but would survive because it hadn't lost 50% of its membership.

If that rule ever existed, it's a good thing that it's gone.

When the MWC split from the WAC, 50% of the WAC left and yet they were not dissolved (or disbanded). They kept going as if nothing changed. That may have been the impetus for the rule change. The continuity rule changed in 2011 - likely in anticipation of the changes to the WAC.

So, the NCAA made a rule change in 2011 in response to a situation that had occurred in the previous millennium? Sounds about right.

No. I am talking about what has happened to the WAC over the last 3 seasons.

Most of what I've read indicates that dissolution votes are generally left to conferences at the time of multiple defections. 8 viable multi-sport teams being the only requirement that must be met to remain recognized by the NCAA.

I believe in the ACC the vote is the same as it is in the Big 12, 75% of voting members. That's why it would take 8 of the 10 Big 12 schools to dissolve the Big 12 and 11 of 14 for the ACC, unless Louisville, Pittsburgh and Syracuse are not considered voting members yet in which case it would require 9 of the original 12.

Each conference is different according to its own by-laws and I don't know what the Big East requires.

Interestingly enough if the ACC had ever wanted to disband they would have done so before inviting Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville and Notre Dame. I can't see the easy placement of 11 of their schools.
Whereas 9 of the original 12 would have been easy to place. That
is just another reason I remain unconvinced of an ACC raid.

(03-02-2013 01:58 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 01:57 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 12:19 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 11:21 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 08:57 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  That rule has been removed. It was related to the continuity provision in the definition of a multisport conference. The old rule had to do with having a certain number of schools (6) playing together in a conference for a specified number of years (5) to establish continuity. The new rule is that the conference only has to have satisfied the minimum number of schools continuously over 8 years. The NCAA page that discusses how credits are paid also has the same language about only having a minimum number of schools (but not the same schools) for eight years.

Yes, Bob. That's exactly what I found.

But I also went back to an older NCAA manual (2009) before a lot of the continuity changes were made and I couldn't find this 50% rule there either. It's wither a really old rule or it never existed.

When you think of it, the 50% rule would not have made any sense. Under the old rule, a conference needed a minimum of 7 members with 6 of them having played together for 5 consecutive years - something that the nBE won't have next year if the C7 leave BTW. A 50% rule would have meant that a 14 team conference could be dissolved by the withdrawal of 7 of its members even though it would still have met the 7 member/6 for 5 consecutive years. OTOH, a 12 member league that lost 5 members would be in exactly the same position but would survive because it hadn't lost 50% of its membership.

If that rule ever existed, it's a good thing that it's gone.

When the MWC split from the WAC, 50% of the WAC left and yet they were not dissolved (or disbanded). They kept going as if nothing changed. That may have been the impetus for the rule change. The continuity rule changed in 2011 - likely in anticipation of the changes to the WAC.

So, the NCAA made a rule change in 2011 in response to a situation that had occurred in the previous millennium? Sounds about right.

No. I am talking about what has happened to the WAC over the last 3 seasons.

The MWC wouldn't have met the old continuity rules either if San Diego St. had left as planned. They only have 6 counting SDSU that have been there for 5 years.

(03-02-2013 02:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Most of what I've read indicates that dissolution votes are generally left to conferences at the time of multiple defections. 8 viable multi-sport teams being the only requirement that must be met to remain recognized by the NCAA.

I believe in the ACC the vote is the same as it is in the Big 12, 75% of voting members. That's why it would take 8 of the 10 Big 12 schools to dissolve the Big 12 and 11 of 14 for the ACC, unless Louisville, Pittsburgh and Syracuse are not considered voting members yet in which case it would require 9 of the original 12.

Each conference is different according to its own by-laws and I don't know what the Big East requires.

Interestingly enough if the ACC had ever wanted to disband they would have done so before inviting Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville and Notre Dame. I can't see the easy placement of 11 of their schools.
Whereas 9 of the original 12 would have been easy to place. That
is just another reason I remain unconvinced of an ACC raid.

Melky's talking about an old rule that would revert NCAA credits back to the schools that earned them because the NCAA would consider a conference "disbanded" if a majority of the conference had left. That rule is no longer in existence.

(03-02-2013 02:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 01:58 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 01:57 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 12:19 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 11:21 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  Yes, Bob. That's exactly what I found.

But I also went back to an older NCAA manual (2009) before a lot of the continuity changes were made and I couldn't find this 50% rule there either. It's wither a really old rule or it never existed.

When you think of it, the 50% rule would not have made any sense. Under the old rule, a conference needed a minimum of 7 members with 6 of them having played together for 5 consecutive years - something that the nBE won't have next year if the C7 leave BTW. A 50% rule would have meant that a 14 team conference could be dissolved by the withdrawal of 7 of its members even though it would still have met the 7 member/6 for 5 consecutive years. OTOH, a 12 member league that lost 5 members would be in exactly the same position but would survive because it hadn't lost 50% of its membership.

If that rule ever existed, it's a good thing that it's gone.

When the MWC split from the WAC, 50% of the WAC left and yet they were not dissolved (or disbanded). They kept going as if nothing changed. That may have been the impetus for the rule change. The continuity rule changed in 2011 - likely in anticipation of the changes to the WAC.

So, the NCAA made a rule change in 2011 in response to a situation that had occurred in the previous millennium? Sounds about right.

No. I am talking about what has happened to the WAC over the last 3 seasons.

The MWC wouldn't have met the old continuity rules either if San Diego St. had left as planned. They only have 6 counting SDSU that have been there for 5 years.

That's all they would have needed to meet. The continuity requirement under the old rule. They would have had to add one more school who had been D1 for at least 8 years o get to the minimum membership of 7, but that was no problem

(03-02-2013 01:58 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 01:57 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 12:19 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 11:21 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(03-02-2013 08:57 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  That rule has been removed. It was related to the continuity provision in the definition of a multisport conference. The old rule had to do with having a certain number of schools (6) playing together in a conference for a specified number of years (5) to establish continuity. The new rule is that the conference only has to have satisfied the minimum number of schools continuously over 8 years. The NCAA page that discusses how credits are paid also has the same language about only having a minimum number of schools (but not the same schools) for eight years.

Yes, Bob. That's exactly what I found.

But I also went back to an older NCAA manual (2009) before a lot of the continuity changes were made and I couldn't find this 50% rule there either. It's wither a really old rule or it never existed.

When you think of it, the 50% rule would not have made any sense. Under the old rule, a conference needed a minimum of 7 members with 6 of them having played together for 5 consecutive years - something that the nBE won't have next year if the C7 leave BTW. A 50% rule would have meant that a 14 team conference could be dissolved by the withdrawal of 7 of its members even though it would still have met the 7 member/6 for 5 consecutive years. OTOH, a 12 member league that lost 5 members would be in exactly the same position but would survive because it hadn't lost 50% of its membership.

If that rule ever existed, it's a good thing that it's gone.

When the MWC split from the WAC, 50% of the WAC left and yet they were not dissolved (or disbanded). They kept going as if nothing changed. That may have been the impetus for the rule change. The continuity rule changed in 2011 - likely in anticipation of the changes to the WAC.

So, the NCAA made a rule change in 2011 in response to a situation that had occurred in the previous millennium? Sounds about right.

No. I am talking about what has happened to the WAC over the last 3 seasons.

Even under the old rules, there was a 2-year waiver, allowing a conference to continue to compete after it lost members, giving it time to reorganize without penalty. That. 2year waiver carried the WAC through its reorganization. By the time the 2 years was up, the rules had been changed, which is why they were unaffected by the 50% rule even of it was inwffwct when their problems started.

The rule was part of the basketball fund distribution plan. Conferences were never officially disbanded by this rule only "considered disbanded" for distribution purposes.

NCAA.org is the public site. The official rules are in the members only section. The link in the other post referenced www1.ncaa.org (the members section?) which no longer works.

OK. I found this today, just to clarify, I was partially wrong. The 50% rule is still in effect for NCAA tournament units distribution only, but it does have the caveat that the conference could still maintain its full status as long as it has at least 6 members after the split. The NCAA bylaws designate that conference compostion is based on who is in on Sept. 1.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/publ...unit+chart

Quote:For the purpose of distributing the basketball fund, a conference is defined as one that comprises at least six member institutions that have been classified in Division I for the eight preceding academic years. If a conference falls below the six-member requirement, the basketball fund moneys are retained by the conference for a one-year period only.

The following policies also apply when a conference’s membership changes or realignment occurs:
a. If an institution leaves a conference and realigns with another and its original conference remains in operation, the units it earned remain with the conference that it left.
b. If an institution leaves a conference to become an independent, the units that institution earned are retained by the conference that it left.
c. If an independent institution joins a conference, it retains the unit(s) it earned as an independent prior to the date it elected to join the conference; any units the institution earns subsequent to that date accrue to the conference.
d. If a conference disbands, each institution retains the units it earned in the basketball fund.
e. If an institution leaves a conference and the conference falls below the six-member requirement, the units remain with the conference for a one-year period; however, if the conference then later disbands, those units return to the basketball fund.
f. If fifty (50) percent or more of the member institutions in a given conference leave the conference simultaneously and the remaining conference membership falls below six member institutions, the conference shall be considered disbanded and each member institution shall retain the units it earned in the basketball fund as if the conference had in fact disbanded (for the purposes of the basketball fund distribution).

So I was wrong that the rule was removed entirely. But it has been given a condition that allows the conference to keep the units as long as they have at least six members that have been classified as D1 for the previous 8 years as of Sept. 1.

That is how the WAC maintains their NCAA units and how the C-TBA will maintain their units after the BE breakup.

kind of o/t- but how in the chart from the link just provided did the Ivy get nothing in 2010-11?